I understand completely but it's difficult where P is concerned because everybody has a different story.

luvgirl said:

PennyPurple said:

Because unless any of us were there, none of us know the correct date. Even P's associates and people who are suppose to be experts can't even come up with the same story. We're not ever going to get the truth.

I've even heard where P & V might have went back as far as '81, before the award show even happened.

All we have to go by are the Prince associates and books. This is how we know what we know. I'm just a strictler for correct dates because when I debate something I like to come as close to the truth as much as possible. I think it's important to try to give out the correct information as much as you can.

PennyPurple said:

purplefam99 said:

PennyPurple said:

Because unless any of us were there, none of us know the correct date. Even P's associates and people who are suppose to be experts can't even come up with the same story. We're not ever going to get the truth.

I've even heard where P & V might have went back as far as '81, before the award show even happened.

Yes that is what I understood from one of the books I read that the dates seems to indicate that their initial meeting might have as far back as 81. Was that in Alex's book?

I've read so much, that I don't even remember where it came from. It could have came from Hahn, or maybe Toban. Some of Toban's threads have been deleted, but I think it was debated.

PennyPurple said:

PennyPurple said:

I understand completely but it's difficult where P is concerned because everybody has a different story.

luvgirl said:

PennyPurple said: All we have to go by are the Prince associates and books. This is how we know what we know. I'm just a strictler for correct dates because when I debate something I like to come as close to the truth as much as possible. I think it's important to try to give out the correct information as much as you can.

Eh, I still need to know the dates from the people who were there. I don't think it's sensible logic to ignore the dates because I think they are gonna get it wrong anyway. If we didn't have some semblance of dates to go by, eventually nothing would make sense. Where would we begin? Dates are important man. Knowledge is power.

[Edited 8/20/17 20:54pm]

OldFriends4Sale said:

Vashtix said:

This has become a very intricate discussion

.

I was simply saying since Vanity never went away in 1983 she was constant. The other women got fed up and left , relationships ended and new ones began. She and Prince remained. That is not belittling or discounting any of the women. This is not a competition. I just noted she was constant in that decade once they met. I did not quantify it as a good/bad thing. I really did not want to discuss that either. I am saying it needs to be respected that Prince and Vanity remained after 1983 and for whatever the reason did not quit each other.

.

I appreciate your take on Susan Moonsie whom I really think is adorbs. I do have an issue with people treating Vanity like poop on the bottom of their shoes because she did not have that "good home" and Susan did. That is just the wrong to me. I do not think being blessed with a good home deems anyone more entitled to love and be loved than the person who was not born in that "good home" situation.

.

Again I never said there was anything loving or wonderful, good or bad about Prince and Vanity seeing each other after 1983/84. I was just stating in the history of Prince that needs to be noted and not swept under the rug for anyone wanting to know the history of Prince. I mean as I said already she was the main woman the public knew - that RS Cover did a lot for Prince back in the day and like it or not she was big part of it .I was just stating that for those who come after it needs to be noted. It may matter as his story is being researched and retold year, centuries to come.Yes it was romantic in the 80s and I am not embellishing or giving my opinion on the pros and cons of that.

[Edited 8/20/17 11:45am]

[Edited 8/20/17 11:47am]

But Vanity got fed up and left too, V.
She was not constant, constant would imply she was his 'steady' if 'leading lady'

and that wasn't the case. Sometimes in relationships after they end, there is a tapering off period.
Even couples who seperate-divorce have been know to have sex to a finality. That isn't a constant.

I wish she didn't have those demons to fight with, and I wish Prince was more stable. I did like those two together. If not for the romantic fantasy of Purple Music.

Well let's keep it real. I never heard anyone say Susan was 'good home' etc I said that. Please keep it in context of the conversation I said it in. Home is a sense of safety, pre fame safety. That has nothing to do with Vanity, nor Vanity being poop underneath someones boot.
And no where did I ever say it did not entitle someone to be loved. I don't know where U got that from? No one is entitled to be loved, but we all should be loved and need love. Vanity was passing thru 2 Stardom. Susan was not.

.

Well next time someone is dragging Vanity U let me know, I'll come join the debate

I am loving this discussion

.

You and I see constant differently; when I speak of constant I am simply speaking of the formal dictionary meaning.

.

constant - something that continously occurs over a period of time.

.

I was not defining it as level of a relationship. For me Vanity was constant because they kept it going continously over the years. I understand Prince had other relationships known and unknown that were also constant simultaneously as his with Vanity and afterward. I am only speaking about the one with Vanity in the 1980s. I am not speaking past 1989.

.

I have read before about how wonderful Susan was due to her "good home". You are not alone with that sentiment. I appreciate you noting we all should be loved and need love. " Vanity was passing thru 2 stardom" but she did not pass on she remained and a friendship was established between her and Prince. I adore Susan so I am not going to touch rating her with Prince in juxtaposition to Vanity and Prince.

.

There is always more than enough dragging on Vanity and Evangelist Matthews so I will holler at you next time I peep it. however all the protogees get a turn at being dragged here so , . . .

luvgirl said:

PennyPurple said:

I understand completely but it's difficult where P is concerned because everybody has a different story.

Eh, I still need to know the dates from the people who were there. I don't think it's sensible logic to ignore the dates because I think they are gonna get it wrong anyway. If we didn't have some semblance of dates to go by, eventually nothing would make sense. Where would we begin? Dates are important man. Knowledge is power.

[Edited 8/20/17 20:54pm]

I think the dates are going to be hard, because people are trying to figure out when someone actually came into the Prince camp + When they actually started dating/seeing each other.

Some people assume both are the same.

purplefam99 said:

PennyPurple said:

Because unless any of us were there, none of us know the correct date. Even P's associates and people who are suppose to be experts can't even come up with the same story. We're not ever going to get the truth.

I've even heard where P & V might have went back as far as '81, before the award show even happened.

Yes and also why, let's call them the Vanity historians, want the historical elements right!!! When history has had the unfortunate record of agregiously cutting people of color out of history it is unfortunately the righteous burden on befalf of all people to make sure we get in right in large and small regard. My feelings.

Have U noticed that these arguements debates and questions of information 99% of the time are never about Prince + (Male)proteges?

But I think there are a few things to be attributed.
The times of the 80s a LOT happened, but there isn't a lot of available record.
Most likely because of the technology of the time. I also think, in a good way, what it would have been like if we had cell phones or computer access the way we do now. A lot would been easily recorded and available for research.
I used to work a public library. And books magazines and newspaper clippings was the way.
Then the storage of this stuff as more an more was added.

Also knowledge of certain times people and events are easily forgotten. In general.
For example I remember this cartoon growing up, that revolved around rabbits. It was kind of adult, in that the subject was not Bugs Bunny but like the story of a few rabbits in a rural area.
And there was another cartoon, centered in Australia, in similar fashion, and revolved around a Kangaroos, and a mother Kangaroo and her Joey, and dingos. late 70s maybe into the early 80s I remember them playing these toons around the same time each year. But I cannot remember the season. I talked to my brothers about these, and 1 slitely remembers, the other it just evades him. But we watched these cartoon-movies every time they came on.
I have never been able to track the what/when/who of it.

I have always been big on gathering 'Prince' information. I think it is beyond just music like some artists. But it was a whole culture. And I think Prince's ever increasing push for privacy, did not help in building his legacy. He didn't seem to grasp the need of visual promotion. Now I will say, when it came to Vanity 6 the promotion was heavy. Vs the Time where it was very scarce. For every 1 photo of the Time live or studio, Vanity 6 has 10-15. Vanity 6 album-single covers were artistic colorful etc, the Time album-single covers were almost non existant.

There is a lot of stuff that happened with Prince in 1985 for live shows to private shows etc that were hardly recorded or known of. He just didn't see fit to publicize it much. But add onto that the 80s era of technology and it was easier to pass off into unknown land.

OldFriends4Sale said:

purplefam99 said:

So is their ban from PP indefinite? I really hate Apples broke the rule. I heard on the prince podcast a couple of workers got fired for something similar. Guess Graceland co. Is strict with all the peeps!!

Whole thing is odd. I'm trying to figure out how Brenda got banned. I didn't know she was in MN at the time. She cetainly wasn't present at the PRNFamily Dance on Til Dawn Celebration afterparty at the Metropolitan Ballroom on the 22nd. There was live footage and JJ, Susan, and Apollonia were present. Sooo where was Brenda?

bondno9 said:

purplefam99 said:

bondno9 said:

Whole thing is odd. I'm trying to figure out how Brenda got banned. I didn't know she was in MN at the time. She cetainly wasn't present at the PRNFamily Dance on Til Dawn Celebration afterparty at the Metropolitan Ballroom on the 22nd. There was live footage and JJ, Susan, and Apollonia were present. Sooo where was Brenda?

Good question. I was wondering why they were at the family event but hide nor hair at the celebration. And jill banned in the air!! On the anni of his death, that bites.

I think 'we the fans' jump at any news as it is comes.
We all should just back off it unless we have facts of it.
It is weird.

OldFriends4Sale said:

purplefam99 said:

PennyPurple said: Yes and also why, let's call them the Vanity historians, want the historical elements right!!! When history has had the unfortunate record of agregiously cutting people of color out of history it is unfortunately the righteous burden on befalf of all people to make sure we get in right in large and small regard. My feelings.

Have U noticed that these arguements debates and questions of information 99% of the time are never about Prince + (Male)proteges?

But I think there are a few things to be attributed.
The times of the 80s a LOT happened, but there isn't a lot of available record.
Most likely because of the technology of the time. I also think, in a good way, what it would have been like if we had cell phones or computer access the way we do now. A lot would been easily recorded and available for research.
I used to work a public library. And books magazines and newspaper clippings was the way.
Then the storage of this stuff as more an more was added.

Also knowledge of certain times people and events are easily forgotten. In general.
For example I remember this cartoon growing up, that revolved around rabbits. It was kind of adult, in that the subject was not Bugs Bunny but like the story of a few rabbits in a rural area.
And there was another cartoon, centered in Australia, in similar fashion, and revolved around a Kangaroos, and a mother Kangaroo and her Joey, and dingos. late 70s maybe into the early 80s I remember them playing these toons around the same time each year. But I cannot remember the season. I talked to my brothers about these, and 1 slitely remembers, the other it just evades him. But we watched these cartoon-movies every time they came on.
I have never been able to track the what/when/who of it.

I have always been big on gathering 'Prince' information. I think it is beyond just music like some artists. But it was a whole culture. And I think Prince's ever increasing push for privacy, did not help in building his legacy. He didn't seem to grasp the need of visual promotion. Now I will say, when it came to Vanity 6 the promotion was heavy. Vs the Time where it was very scarce. For every 1 photo of the Time live or studio, Vanity 6 has 10-15. Vanity 6 album-single covers were artistic colorful etc, the Time album-single covers were almost non existant.

There is a lot of stuff that happened with Prince in 1985 for live shows to private shows etc that were hardly recorded or known of. He just didn't see fit to publicize it much. But add onto that the 80s era of technology and it was easier to pass off into unknown land.

Sigh, He was building a mystic about himself at the time. He was the Wizard behing the curtain. Also every aspect of his life was not public. As Jill said he had private realationships and public relationships.

Also Jimmy Jam and Morris Day have talked a bit about the old days especially Alexander O'Neal. It is on the Origial Seven Documentary which can be found on YOUTUBE.

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Have U noticed that these arguements debates and questions of information 99% of the time are never about Prince + (Male)proteges?

But I think there are a few things to be attributed.
The times of the 80s a LOT happened, but there isn't a lot of available record.
Most likely because of the technology of the time. I also think, in a good way, what it would have been like if we had cell phones or computer access the way we do now. A lot would been easily recorded and available for research.
I used to work a public library. And books magazines and newspaper clippings was the way.
Then the storage of this stuff as more an more was added.

Also knowledge of certain times people and events are easily forgotten. In general.
For example I remember this cartoon growing up, that revolved around rabbits. It was kind of adult, in that the subject was not Bugs Bunny but like the story of a few rabbits in a rural area.
And there was another cartoon, centered in Australia, in similar fashion, and revolved around a Kangaroos, and a mother Kangaroo and her Joey, and dingos. late 70s maybe into the early 80s I remember them playing these toons around the same time each year. But I cannot remember the season. I talked to my brothers about these, and 1 slitely remembers, the other it just evades him. But we watched these cartoon-movies every time they came on.
I have never been able to track the what/when/who of it.

I have always been big on gathering 'Prince' information. I think it is beyond just music like some artists. But it was a whole culture. And I think Prince's ever increasing push for privacy, did not help in building his legacy. He didn't seem to grasp the need of visual promotion. Now I will say, when it came to Vanity 6 the promotion was heavy. Vs the Time where it was very scarce. For every 1 photo of the Time live or studio, Vanity 6 has 10-15. Vanity 6 album-single covers were artistic colorful etc, the Time album-single covers were almost non existant.

There is a lot of stuff that happened with Prince in 1985 for live shows to private shows etc that were hardly recorded or known of. He just didn't see fit to publicize it much. But add onto that the 80s era of technology and it was easier to pass off into unknown land.

Sigh, He was building a mystic about himself at the time. He was the Wizard behing the curtain. Also every aspect of his life was not public. As Jill said he had private realationships and public relationships.

Also Jimmy Jam and Morris Day have talked a bit about the old days especially Alexander O'Neal. It is on the Origial Seven Documentary which can be found on YOUTUBE.

What are U sighing about? I know all that. Nothing U said had anything to do with what I said or that the 80s were still a time when easy access to 'happening's and events' harder. Today, a lot of that stuff would be recorded more easily by fans and media because we have cell phones etc

As private as Prince tried to make things in the last 10 years, there is not 1 show or even I know of where someone did not get pictures, music, playlist etc

purplefam99 said:

bondno9 said:

Whole thing is odd. I'm trying to figure out how Brenda got banned. I didn't know she was in MN at the time. She cetainly wasn't present at the PRNFamily Dance on Til Dawn Celebration afterparty at the Metropolitan Ballroom on the 22nd. There was live footage and JJ, Susan, and Apollonia were present. Sooo where was Brenda?

Good question. I was wondering why they were at the family event but hide nor hair at the celebration. And jill banned in the air!! On the anni of his death, that bites.

Yes very good points. That got me scratching my head as well. What went down after JJ landed that she got banned.

OldFriends4Sale said:

laurarichardson said:

Sigh, He was building a mystic about himself at the time. He was the Wizard behing the curtain. Also every aspect of his life was not public. As Jill said he had private realationships and public relationships.

Also Jimmy Jam and Morris Day have talked a bit about the old days especially Alexander O'Neal. It is on the Origial Seven Documentary which can be found on YOUTUBE.

What are U sighing about? I know all that. Nothing U said had anything to do with what I said or that the 80s were still a time when easy access to 'happening's and events' harder. Today, a lot of that stuff would be recorded more easily by fans and media because we have cell phones etc

As private as Prince tried to make things in the last 10 years, there is not 1 show or even I know of where someone did not get pictures, music, playlist etc

I am sighing over this nonsense.

"And I think Prince's ever increasing push for privacy, did not help in building his legacy. He didn't seem to grasp the need of visual promotion."

This is what my comment is referencing. Prince in the early years was not as visable as the associates because he was building a mystic. In the later years he was more accesiable. You should also realize that as a songwriter and producer he was trying to push the groups he was working and writing for as this brought in income for him.

I do not think he was trying to make things private in the last year for sole purpose of cutting people off it was to make profits. What sane person wants to give free viewing of their concerts without payment.? Those shows were his main income in the last years and there are very few pics of any of his private parties for celebs which is the way it should be.

Now there is some technolgy coming out that will shine an infrared light out to audiences and into movie theathers to stop people from filming movies. So Prince was not to far off the mark.

i dont care much about these people...i care about his legacy

purplefam99 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Have U noticed that these arguements debates and questions of information 99% of the time are never about Prince + (Male)proteges?

But I think there are a few things to be attributed.
The times of the 80s a LOT happened, but there isn't a lot of available record.
Most likely because of the technology of the time. I also think, in a good way, what it would have been like if we had cell phones or computer access the way we do now. A lot would been easily recorded and available for research.
I used to work a public library. And books magazines and newspaper clippings was the way.
Then the storage of this stuff as more an more was added.

Also knowledge of certain times people and events are easily forgotten. In general.
For example I remember this cartoon growing up, that revolved around rabbits. It was kind of adult, in that the subject was not Bugs Bunny but like the story of a few rabbits in a rural area.
And there was another cartoon, centered in Australia, in similar fashion, and revolved around a Kangaroos, and a mother Kangaroo and her Joey, and dingos. late 70s maybe into the early 80s I remember them playing these toons around the same time each year. But I cannot remember the season. I talked to my brothers about these, and 1 slitely remembers, the other it just evades him. But we watched these cartoon-movies every time they came on.
I have never been able to track the what/when/who of it.

I have always been big on gathering 'Prince' information. I think it is beyond just music like some artists. But it was a whole culture. And I think Prince's ever increasing push for privacy, did not help in building his legacy. He didn't seem to grasp the need of visual promotion. Now I will say, when it came to Vanity 6 the promotion was heavy. Vs the Time where it was very scarce. For every 1 photo of the Time live or studio, Vanity 6 has 10-15. Vanity 6 album-single covers were artistic colorful etc, the Time album-single covers were almost non existant.

There is a lot of stuff that happened with Prince in 1985 for live shows to private shows etc that were hardly recorded or known of. He just didn't see fit to publicize it much. But add onto that the 80s era of technology and it was easier to pass off into unknown land.

Very good point about the male protege bands, the discussions here hardly ever turn to why Prince kicked Alexander O'Neil to the curb in favor of Morris Day. But I will tell you Questlove has a podcast available on Pandora where he interviews Jimmy Jam from the Time and it is a GREAT interview it has 2 parts. I urge you to give it a listen it is so good and funny too! Especially the Alexander O'Neil bit when they are all at the pancake house.

thanks. I read and love reading/listening to the stuff from the O7 Time band

purplefam99 said:

luvgirl said:

Vashtix, I understand what you mean by they were constant. She was always in his life someway somehow. I was shocked when TOB revealed that they still saw each other off and on until 89. I agree that Vanity wasn't in a good place at that time due to her addiction. The last thing she needed was to continue a romantic relationship with Prince. But to be honest I was mostly surprised by Prince. I was stunned that he would still try to be in a romantic relationship with her while she was going through such devastating drug addiction. That type of addiction isn't pretty. I replied that I thought it was sad when TOB first posted the information because I thought it was a tremendous indication of how hard it was for the both of them to break the ties with each other even through all that gore. It's sad to me because they had to have known that it was unhealthy for them to be together that way but yet they still forced a connection. I think because they both still wanted that "constant" you talk about, even knowing it was bad for them. [Edited 8/20/17 18:31pm]

I ache to bring it up but isn't there an unreleased song by prince called Cold coffee and cocaine. I ran into on google. But her drug use isn't a secret. But it does make me fear that their initial coupling was not a good recipe. But it seems that they did end up in a stronger healthier place with each other after walking thru fire. [Edited 8/20/17 19:13pm]

Yep Cold Coffee & Cocaine 1983/84 outtake, it seems like it could have been a Time outtake

It also sounds like like it could be a background story song for 'the Father' in PR

PennyPurple said:

Good, as much bitching as Jill Jones and Apples have been doing, they can stay away. Evidently PP doesn't think that they are anything special either.

If PP doesn't think that they are anything special then maybe PP is in trouble. How

clairew1975 said:

I have no idea how my original thread about the four ladies being banned from PP, has escalated into who wrote "wonderful ass"? Unless they got their asses out at PP and got banned (lol) this thread's gone off topic. {Sigh}

I was sitting here thinking the exact same thing and trying to figure out the rules of when, why and how certain threads get locked because they veer off topic and why some comments are deleted because they aren't on topic; but it's ok to discuss everything under the sun having nothing to do with the ladies being banned. go figure.

Vashtix said:

PennyPurple said:

The other women were there before Vanity entered the picture, that would make Vanity the other woman.

But the other women were after Vanity. Vanity was always there. She and Prince never ended.Vanity was there before Susannah Devin D.,Robin Powers etc. Even if she came after she was not the other woman. They all were sharing one man. Unlike the others she was constant. Per new info from Toban it appears they never ended in the 80s. . The relationship evolved over decades to deep friendship. [Edited 8/19/17 16:27pm]

So wasn't Susan Moonsie there before Vanity? This is batshit crazy, in order for there to be "the other woman", the must be a "one main woman"; like someone else said, that wasn't the case it was a sea of revolving women.

Now back to the topic at hand... seems like a bad PR (public relations) move to ban these ladies from PP.

purplefam99 said:

That was a good discussion and a good read thanks to you all for hashing it out!!

I respectfully disagree. It was not on topic and the discussion should have been moved to it's own thread beause it veered WAYYYYYY off topic of the OP it shut down any discussion of why Jill might be get banned from PP when she wasn't in the vicinity, why and what would be the real reason behind such a ban.

[Edited 8/25/17 1:16am]

Asenath0607 said:

Thewooh said:

Asenath0607 said:

If PP doesn't think that they are anything special then maybe PP is in trouble. How

Seems like Miko was banned as well. Anyone knows why?

No one ever posted anything 'concrete' about Miko being banned.

I doubt we will get anything factual about Miko. Whether he is being 'Miko Miko' in his reply or what

I don't think he leaves Ibiza

There are also an 'anti Mayte' conspiracists saying Mayte is banned from Paisley Park too

Asenath0607 said:

PennyPurple said:

Good, as much bitching as Jill Jones and Apples have been doing, they can stay away. Evidently PP doesn't think that they are anything special either.

If PP doesn't think that they are anything special then maybe PP is in trouble. How

PP knows exactly what it is doing. Again, JJ is nothing special to PP and before Vanity died had not seen Prince for YEARS.

Everything PP is doing is not for these ladies, but for PRINCE. These ladies are trying to make it all about them. It isn't.

luvgirl said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yes, like a lot of relationships.

Again those lyrics could be also directed at Prince

If you look at them, he makes it seems as if it was Vanity that was unfaithful and trying to convince Prince to trust her.

Did he say she had no class?

"U try 2 fuck 4 love" (that is not volatile) that is what a lot of women do, they think by giving sex to a man he will love her in return. This is age old M/F stuff. Girls give it up to a boy they like hoping he will love her.

I'm not buying it OF4S. Let's just agree to disagree.

Well that is life.
More women need to buy it and understand, so they stop getting hurt

I was trying to find the post that we discussed the Kirk/JJ angle to post this