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Reply #330 posted 08/20/17 7:43am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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luvgirl said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Not cater, those are just my favorites in talking about their times with Prince and some things they've done afterwards.

Not true, you just see, me taking part in arguement or debates that happen to involve those people ie the Revolution members Susannah.
If people were going after Morris Day & the Time, I would be there too. Going hard for them.
But as I said before, there seems to be too much focus, by mostly female fans on their fav female associate artist. That is where the 'battles' are focused. Even when people post threads on 'favorite protege' it seems the men are not counted.

.

Well to be honest, it is not overstating that people are putting this in a place of competition.

post #163 that we are talking again about Wonderful Ass being about who? flamed by Laurarichardson

.

I'm saying, it seems by what you posted, that you cannot/won't consider the idea that many others have, that this song could have an evolutionary process of inspiration. "Right Vashtix, the song was written before Prince even met Susannah. The fact that we know this, the fact that it's been said by more than one qualified associate ( Susan Rogers, Jill Jones, Morris Hayes, and Appolonia) nullifies this whole argument... It was written for Vanity"

.

That is why I asked if you are team Vanity. I'm not "team Susannah. not team Vanity." And I've pointed out explicitely when quoting what Lisa said, that she sited Wendy & Susannah as inspiration when she and Prince were singing the song in the studio. I never once said only Susannah as many who are opposing it continuely re-site.


We all have our favorite band member or associates. Some of us more enthusiastic than others. It's pretty easy to see who is team whoever here. It's human nature to come to the defense of who it is you respect and admire. I see it all the time. Even with the ones that swear up and down that they are unbiased when it comes to his women or bandmates. If you are here long enough you will know who their favorite's are. It's not rocket science. Outside of the Org, if someone says something negative that I don't agree with about Prince, they'd quickly know where my heart lies... There is nothing wrong with you favoring the rev's and Susannah. I didn't mean it as an insult. It's something that I observed. I observed that you seemed more enthusiastic about them than you are about all other Prince association. Nothing wrong with that. I'm not ashamed to say that I'm more enthusiastic about Vanity. This is a fan site. I had her posters on my walls right along with Prince. But that doesn't mean I don't respect Prince's other female association or that I would carelessly pit any of his women against each other as you seem to assume. If I didn't believe this song was about Vanity, I wouldn't have stated my opinion on the matter. I think your comment about this being a women's battle and competition between female associates is unfair in this situation because we have cause to debate this song. It just so happen that the song in question is said to be inspired by two women that dated Prince, one of them who i've been a die hard fan of since the age of twelve. Not to mention though, here you are again in a debate of yet another song with me regarding the two same women. lol I remember in another thread, you leaning towards "The Beautiful Ones" being about Susannah, me leaning towards it being about vanity. Now it's WA. Are you involved in this cat fight competition? wink This is not a makeshift argument to fight against protege's. The narrative about a song we've had substantial reasons to believe was inspired by Vanity is being changed. A song that many close associates of Prince came out to challenge Lisa on as to who inspired it as well. If Lisa did not state that WA was written for Wendy and Susannah and the fans did not know that WA was said to be about Vanity, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Just because some of us are not bending to the will of what you and a few others are trying to convey regarding the song, you equate anyone in support of the song being about Vanity to be in a battle or competing? That's not fair. I just don't happen to agree with you, it doesn't mean I'm trying to push competition between anyone. I even stated in my prior post that I choose to believe Lisa's first comment that they were goofing around with the song and that's what she probably meant by the song being about Wendy and Susannah. I don't however buy into all this other forced narrative that I'm hearing. Seems like BS to me. The song was written when it was written. I don't think there's anything wrong with me saying the song was initially for Vanity if it was. [Edited 8/20/17 4:40am]

But the Revolution & Susannah are not my favorite.

It just isn't the case.
I've made era threads on Prince throught his whole career. Every album. Looking into the people in his camp from background people to prominent.
I've never done a Prince & Susannah era thread. But I have done a Prince and Ingid thread, I have done a Prince & Carmen Electra thread, etc
When Denise passed away, I believe I was on page 6-7 of the Prince & Vanity 6 thread.
I have have done a Prince & the Family thread, as I've done for all the proteges in the 80s (not Madhouse yet though)

What you will read from me is usually based on access and current discussion.
If people were creating constant threads in 2017 attacking Vanity 6 or the Time, I would be extensively posting in it. Some thread just don't go further. When Denise passed away there was a member Violet something, I don't know if she/he is still here, but they got on the high horse 'blaming Denise's drug abuse' for her demise. I blasted her on every thread she posted, because she tried to carry that in multiple forums or in every place she tried to talk about things related in the Politics & Religion forum, I blasted her.

If there are 10 threads about the Revolution, 5 about the Family 3 about Sheila E, I'll probably be on all of them. And it will just happen to be that 10 are about the Revolution.

Sheila E came under heavy fire last year. I went to bat for her jfust like I did the Revolution.

I have one an art piece I'm working now of Prince Denise Matthews & Heaven. I have 'what if Vanity continued in the Prince camp concepts for some art, and I've always talked about what Vanity 6 would have been like in the ATWIAD Parade & Dream Factory eras.

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work...
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Reply #331 posted 08/20/17 8:26am

OldFriends4Sal
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luvgirl said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Actually those lyrics, probably describe Prince more than anything. He had a good way of sitting in the other persons seat and looking back at him and writing songs.

Like Do Me Baby is sang exclusively from a womans stand point.

Those lyrics any person at various degrees could ascribe to Prince.

Yea but this time we know that the song was intially inspired by Vanity so she obviously inspired the lyrics and the lyrics actually fit their volatile relationship. [Edited 8/20/17 7:52am]

That is not disputed.
And I don't see the lyrics as volatile.
I always saw it as complicated, like a lot of relationship can be

especially if there may be broken trust.

A lot of women could say that about Prince.
hell some of the men in the bands could say some of that stuff too.

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work...
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Reply #332 posted 08/20/17 10:10am

luvgirl

OldFriends4Sale said:

luvgirl said:

OldFriends4Sale said: Yea but this time we know that the song was intially inspired by Vanity so she obviously inspired the lyrics and the lyrics actually fit their volatile relationship. [Edited 8/20/17 7:52am]

That is not disputed.
And I don't see the lyrics as volatile.
I always saw it as complicated, like a lot of relationship can be

especially if there may be broken trust.

A lot of women could say that about Prince.
hell some of the men in the bands could say some of that stuff too.

The song lyrics categorizes the lack of trust and understanding towards a woman he was in a relationship with, who he obviously thought was sleeping around on him, identifying the reason why he still didn't want to leave her.

*

True love before sex U just can't relate

*

Saying that U love me, it don't do no good,

U want me 2 trust U, I wish that I could

U cannot build a house with plastic wood

*

I guess what it is is that I hate your ideas of fun (Oh yeah?) But baby I rate your ass number one

*

I don't usually have time 4 babes with no class, but I can always find time 4 your ass

*

U try to fu*k for love... (This sure looks volatile to me..)



[Edited 8/20/17 11:07am]

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Reply #333 posted 08/20/17 11:42am

Vashtix

OldFriends4Sale said:

Vashtix said:

Please check this- I AM NOT A FANTASY PERSON. I know Prince and Vanity broke up. I appreciate if peeps reading this understand I get that, believe that and note that.

.

I am not saying they were together 4 ever. My point is it has been said Vanity and Prince ended in 1983. I was stating that they did not end in 1983 but years later.

.

I never said anything about Prince not circling back to any other women as we all know he was never a truly monogamous man. Please do not lump me into that camp.

.

As far as Susan Moonsie goes she stayed around til after Appolonia 6 . When Doves Cry speaks of someone leaving the other standing alone. She was there for years after. I will never get that WDC connection. I am not understanding what she has to do with Vanity and Prince still seeing one another past 1983. Susan, Kim Upsher (who it was learned Prince remained close with til she died in 2015) were all part of his harem in the early days. Love Susan!! she is still gorgeous to this day. heart

.

I am saying Prince and Vanity did not end in 1983 but continued into 1989. That means the writers saying Prince hated Vanity etc. was not true. They are not the authorities people make them out to be. Their facts are wrong and it also means that much of the lore from the 80s has been misrepped and their timelines wrong. I am speaking that or posteriorty we need it right. It is not about who likes who or my girl is better than yours etc. It is about the fact that along with the other women at that time Vanity was still around, not banished into some drug induced alley even if she was doing coke and had Nikki Sixx,Billy Idol, and other men as Vanity owned up to having. It needs to be out and spoken of because she was a major person especially since Purple Rain had the romantic leads as Prince and Vanity.

.

I do not know every name of every woman Prince was linked with but there was no real leading lady in my mind if he was still playing Rude Boy to Vanity's Nasty Girl/ The Kid to Apples/Vanity through the 80s decade. Sure they had a public tiff but she was not the other woman to me-NOTE I said to me. I am not discounting any of the other women.

I am not touching the 90s. Please note I am just talking 80s.

.

If any of the women he was seeing had any inkling that Prince was still seeing Vanity I can see it being a troubling spot to then and now. Vanity and Prince hung out, picked peeps up from the airpor and she was attending his concerts and he had that outfit made for her, the one posted from 1986. - they were getting on fine.

.

This info needs to be noted, not for us, but for those after. There is more than the 1 scenario that we have been told over the years. This one needs to be included especially for those who learn about Prince years to come. I will add since Purple Rain was such a mega movie and the female lead was Apples playing Vanity. Vanity needs to stop being talked about as an afterthought,a sick coke head fiend, whore/harlot. She needs to be spoken of in the totality of who and what she was and respected as the other women at that time have been. Prince will be talked of for ages to come. I hope as time goes on and we are farther away from the transitions of Prince and Denise people will place personal biases aside and share real discussion and info. without fear of petty arguments.

.

I am understanding now though why the need to not to validate Denise. Prince and Denise had an understanding. Toban explains it in the other thread on this board. It was way more adult than most can handle esp. if there is need for a fairytale type.traditional romance. They were not traditionalists so it clearly worked for them and allowed it to continue past 1983. Just saying.

I am not talking her health, his health physically/mentally or if it was a good thing to do. I am just saying what has been learned/discussed. Again I never said they never broke up, I never said she was the love of his life, THAT IS NOT what I have said here at all so please do not accuse,attack, or make fun of me for those things. I know this is a touchy, volatile topic and I am not coming for any fanbase, or any person(s). There is no evil passive agressive intent or agenda here. I was just stating info in my opinion needs to be shared.

When I talk about the 'romantic fantasy' I'm talking about the general notion of it, not you specifically. All this information coming in does revolve around a romance.

But you keep saying 'Vanity was the constant' that is fantasy. What does that even mean that she was constant? She was married, what twice? In her religious belief, any emotional attachments with a man that doesn't have to include sex is called adultery.

What do you mean by 'Constant'?

Because if it means what I think in general definition, he was also constant with Susannah & Sheila E through his whole life.

you said:My take is that since Prince and Vanity publicly had let one another go but cirlcled back around to seeing one another it means they had something more than a mere sexual high...

found something in one another their other mates did not have. The leading ladies Sheila E., Susannah, Robin Powers, Jill J., were not Vanity and her other guys were not Prince.

It was for them alone. The other women were Others- Nothing compared to one another.

It technically ended in 1984, not 83.

Well Susan Moonsie comes into it, because in post #303 you said: But the other women were after Vanity. Vanity was always there.

Which I corrected with Susan Moonsie and Prince dated before Vanity came into the scene, and continued a little while Prince & Vanity were dating(leading lady). And it was Susan Moonsie that made the conscious decision to end the romantic side of it.

When Doves Cry? Because Prince tended to play the victim in a lot of his songs. He was the one being left alone, or rejected, or cheated on. Susan Moonsie deciding to remove herself from the growing harem, can easily be seen by Prince as 'leaving me standing in a world alone. She represented a certain type of innocence(hence the 'edge of 17' image she was given) Prince early on would stay at her families house sometimes. She obviously represented some kind of stability ie family.

V, you don't have to reiterate that Vanity and Prince may have continued a fling after 84. I believe they did. I'm just not saying, I find nothing wonderfully loving about it. It was addiction mode. Vanity was in full blown addiction sadly. And Prince wasn't actually in the best places of life himself.
Remember, one of the reasons Vanity left Prince exclusively was that he played mind games with her-something she experienced with her family. And Prince was clearly seeing other women. So to go back to that kind of relationship (if this was any other regular woman) it would be seen as not healthy. In her state of being she was looking for fame and looking for love. Prince couldn't give her that.

They were cool, but I cannot sugar coat how internally this just wasn't a good thing for Vanity.
The fact that she was in such a dark place with Nikki Sixx in 1987, while still seeing Prince showed how it just wasn't good for her all around. Especially being a woman. in the 80s she was a functioning addict. On the surface Vanity had a very good career.

Again, I love Vanity ie Denise Matthews. I've said in some past threads, that if Prince had Vanit 6:Vanity Susan Brenda appear on stage with him, removing Shelby Liv Elise I would go crazy. I always knew they kept in touch, and I'm glad they did. But that was just friendship. She married twice, he married twice. Anything emotionally 'romantic' in their lives during those periods in 1995 would be considered adultery. And I don't want to see them that way. Even though Prince lived out differently than Denise after 1995.

In 1995, she said, "When I came to the Lord Jesus Christ, I threw out about 1,000 tapes of mine—interview, every tape, every video. Everything.

This has become a very intricate discussion biggrin

.

I respect Denise Matthews as an Evangelist and I as I said in my earlier post I was only speaking of the

80s NOT the 90s. Again, I am honestly only speaking of Vanity in the 80s. They are 2 very different people and did different things. I respect an admire the woman Denise fought with blood, tears, and prayers an amazing faith to become. She really has been a real inspiration and I do not want to even try to touch the 90s.

.

I was simply saying since Vanity never went away in 1983 she was constant. The other women got fed up and left , relationships ended and new ones began. She and Prince remained. That is not belittling or discounting any of the women. This is not a competition. I just noted she was constant in that decade once they met. I did not quantify it as a good/bad thing. I really did not want to discuss that either. I am saying it needs to be respected that Prince and Vanity remained after 1983 and for whatever the reason did not quit each other.

.

I appreciate your take on Susan Moonsie whom I really think is adorbs. heart I do have an issue with people treating Vanity like poop on the bottom of their shoes because she did not have that "good home" and Susan did. That is just the wrong to me. I do not think being blessed with a good home deems anyone more entitled to love and be loved than the person who was not born in that "good home" situation.

.

Again I never said there was anything loving or wonderful, good or bad about Prince and Vanity seeing each other after 1983/84. I was just stating in the history of Prince that needs to be noted and not swept under the rug for anyone wanting to know the history of Prince. I mean as I said already she was the main woman the public knew - that RS Cover did a lot for Prince back in the day and like it or not she was big part of it .I was just stating that for those who come after it needs to be noted. It may matter as his story is being researched and retold year, centuries to come.Yes it was romantic in the 80s and I am not embellishing or giving my opinion on the pros and cons of that.

[Edited 8/20/17 11:45am]

[Edited 8/20/17 11:47am]

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Reply #334 posted 08/20/17 12:57pm

luvgirl

Vashtix said:

PennyPurple said:

err



Their sexual relationship was over Vashtix. Their friendship continued. There is a big difference. She walked into P's house that had at least 2 other women living there who were in relationships with him. V. was one of the other women. Her and Prince were never exclusive.

[Edited 8/19/17 16:40pm]


Who did Prince have an exclusive relationship with?
[Edited 8/19/17 17:20pm]


Vashtix, Prince and Vanity at one point had the same nature of exclusivity as the rest of the leading ladies. (As much as that entailed...)
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Reply #335 posted 08/20/17 1:16pm

luvgirl

OldFriends4Sale said:



Vashtix said:


PennyPurple said:


The other women were there before Vanity entered the picture, that would make Vanity the other woman.



But the other women were after Vanity. Vanity was always there. She and Prince never ended.Vanity was there before Susannah Devin D.,Robin Powers etc. Even if she came after she was not the other woman. They all were sharing one man. Unlike the others she was constant. Per new info from Toban it appears they never ended in the 80s. . The relationship evolved over decades to deep friendship. [Edited 8/19/17 16:27pm]


Vashtix, that is a romantic fantasy that they never ended. They did.



Also Kim Upsher and Susan Moonsie(Vanity 6) were Prince's girlfriends too, and he was litely seeing Susan when he met Vanity. It was Susan that pulled out. Also he was seeing Jill Jones. I believe those two became intimate somewhere in the same year. Jill came into the camp mid-late 81. Vanity came in mid-late 82 during the end of the Controversy tour.



He knew Kim from High School and Susan early in his career, probably pre For You.





Did you come across a different source for the dates you have Jill Jones and Vanity entering the Prince camp? I have it as these dates. Vanity met Prince Janurary 82 if not earlier.

Vanity met Prince 1/25/82 AMA (as per a few different sources)
Jill came into the Prince camp after the food fight incident 3/14/82. (She noted in an interview)
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Reply #336 posted 08/20/17 1:44pm

luvgirl

OldFriends4Sale said:



Vashtix said:




OldFriends4Sale said:





Just because Prince might have continued to 'circle' back to Vanity, doesn't mean it is a good thing.
Sadly Vanity was dealing with a serious issue of addiction. She was in with Nikki Sixx as well. and that was just not a good situation.
Addictions and Sex and two of the worst combinations. So the 'circling back' is most likely not a good thing. Even in Addiction recoveries, people are told to refrain from getting in relationships for a while. And even people not addicted to a drug/alchohol whether it is family-friend-lover can be pulled into the addicted loved ones addiction cycle. 'Love Addiction' combined amps up the bad.


I just isn't anything to be romanticized. It is a vicious raw emotionally and physically 'violent' cycle.



Sheila E suffered sexual abuse at a younger age. So she was wrestling with her demons as well.
I've read that it took some time for Sheila E to cut that part off with Prince, and that it did possibly continue into the early 90s.

But she knew it wasn't good for her.
Some of these women were strong enough to just move on in that dept. Where was it going to lead but the same thing. So that they did not 'circle back' is a good thing.

I don't think Jill or Robyn were 'leading ladies' they were never in that position to be known that way. If anything acress Troy Beyer was, being very visible with Prince.



But Vanity, Susannah Melvoin, Sheila E, Kim Bassinger, Troy Beyer, Nona Gaye, Mayte...

Prince's relationship with Nona also involved heavy drug use on her part. People make up reason why Prince went the Mayte route, was because he wasn't going to marry Nona mostly because of the drug addiction.






Please check this- I AM NOT A FANTASY PERSON. I know Prince and Vanity broke up. I appreciate if peeps reading this understand I get that, believe that and note that.


.


I am not saying they were together 4 ever. My point is it has been said Vanity and Prince ended in 1983. I was stating that they did not end in 1983 but years later.


.


I never said anything about Prince not circling back to any other women as we all know he was never a truly monogamous man. Please do not lump me into that camp.


.


As far as Susan Moonsie goes she stayed around til after Appolonia 6 . When Doves Cry speaks of someone leaving the other standing alone. She was there for years after. I will never get that WDC connection. I am not understanding what she has to do with Vanity and Prince still seeing one another past 1983. Susan, Kim Upsher (who it was learned Prince remained close with til she died in 2015) were all part of his harem in the early days. Love Susan!! she is still gorgeous to this day. heart


.


I am saying Prince and Vanity did not end in 1983 but continued into 1989. That means the writers saying Prince hated Vanity etc. was not true. They are not the authorities people make them out to be. Their facts are wrong and it also means that much of the lore from the 80s has been misrepped and their timelines wrong. I am speaking that or posteriorty we need it right. It is not about who likes who or my girl is better than yours etc. It is about the fact that along with the other women at that time Vanity was still around, not banished into some drug induced alley even if she was doing coke and had Nikki Sixx,Billy Idol, and other men as Vanity owned up to having. It needs to be out and spoken of because she was a major person especially since Purple Rain had the romantic leads as Prince and Vanity.


.


I do not know every name of every woman Prince was linked with but there was no real leading lady in my mind if he was still playing Rude Boy to Vanity's Nasty Girl/ The Kid to Apples/Vanity through the 80s decade. Sure they had a public tiff but she was not the other woman to me-NOTE I said to me. I am not discounting any of the other women.


I am not touching the 90s. Please note I am just talking 80s.


.


If any of the women he was seeing had any inkling that Prince was still seeing Vanity I can see it being a troubling spot to then and now. Vanity and Prince hung out, picked peeps up from the airpor and she was attending his concerts and he had that outfit made for her, the one posted from 1986. - they were getting on fine.


.


This info needs to be noted, not for us, but for those after. There is more than the 1 scenario that we have been told over the years. This one needs to be included especially for those who learn about Prince years to come. I will add since Purple Rain was such a mega movie and the female lead was Apples playing Vanity. Vanity needs to stop being talked about as an afterthought,a sick coke head fiend, whore/harlot. She needs to be spoken of in the totality of who and what she was and respected as the other women at that time have been. Prince will be talked of for ages to come. I hope as time goes on and we are farther away from the transitions of Prince and Denise people will place personal biases aside and share real discussion and info. without fear of petty arguments.


.


I am understanding now though why the need to not to validate Denise. Prince and Denise had an understanding. Toban explains it in the other thread on this board. It was way more adult than most can handle esp. if there is need for a fairytale type.traditional romance. They were not traditionalists so it clearly worked for them and allowed it to continue past 1983. Just saying.


I am not talking her health, his health physically/mentally or if it was a good thing to do. I am just saying what has been learned/discussed. Again I never said they never broke up, I never said she was the love of his life, THAT IS NOT what I have said here at all so please do not accuse,attack, or make fun of me for those things. I know this is a touchy, volatile topic and I am not coming for any fanbase, or any person(s). There is no evil passive agressive intent or agenda here. I was just stating info in my opinion needs to be shared.





When I talk about the 'romantic fantasy' I'm talking about the general notion of it, not you specifically. All this information coming in does revolve around a romance.



But you keep saying 'Vanity was the constant' that is fantasy. What does that even mean that she was constant? She was married, what twice? In her religious belief, any emotional attachments with a man that doesn't have to include sex is called adultery.


What do you mean by 'Constant'?


Because if it means what I think in general definition, he was also constant with Susannah & Sheila E through his whole life.




you said:My take is that since Prince and Vanity publicly had let one another go but cirlcled back around to seeing one another it means they had something more than a mere sexual high...


found something in one another their other mates did not have. The leading ladies Sheila E., Susannah, Robin Powers, Jill J., were not Vanity and her other guys were not Prince.


It was for them alone. The other women were Others- Nothing compared to one another.





It technically ended in 1984, not 83.




Well Susan Moonsie comes into it, because in post #303 you said: But the other women were after Vanity. Vanity was always there.



Which I corrected with Susan Moonsie and Prince dated before Vanity came into the scene, and continued a little while Prince & Vanity were dating(leading lady). And it was Susan Moonsie that made the conscious decision to end the romantic side of it.



When Doves Cry? Because Prince tended to play the victim in a lot of his songs. He was the one being left alone, or rejected, or cheated on. Susan Moonsie deciding to remove herself from the growing harem, can easily be seen by Prince as 'leaving me standing in a world alone. She represented a certain type of innocence(hence the 'edge of 17' image she was given) Prince early on would stay at her families house sometimes. She obviously represented some kind of stability ie family.



V, you don't have to reiterate that Vanity and Prince may have continued a fling after 84. I believe they did. I'm just not saying, I find nothing wonderfully loving about it. It was addiction mode. Vanity was in full blown addiction sadly. And Prince wasn't actually in the best places of life himself.
Remember, one of the reasons Vanity left Prince exclusively was that he played mind games with her-something she experienced with her family. And Prince was clearly seeing other women. So to go back to that kind of relationship (if this was any other regular woman) it would be seen as not healthy. In her state of being she was looking for fame and looking for love. Prince couldn't give her that.



They were cool, but I cannot sugar coat how internally this just wasn't a good thing for Vanity.
The fact that she was in such a dark place with Nikki Sixx in 1987, while still seeing Prince showed how it just wasn't good for her all around. Especially being a woman. in the 80s she was a functioning addict. On the surface Vanity had a very good career.



Again, I love Vanity ie Denise Matthews. I've said in some past threads, that if Prince had Vanit 6:Vanity Susan Brenda appear on stage with him, removing Shelby Liv Elise I would go crazy. I always knew they kept in touch, and I'm glad they did. But that was just friendship. She married twice, he married twice. Anything emotionally 'romantic' in their lives during those periods in 1995 would be considered adultery. And I don't want to see them that way. Even though Prince lived out differently than Denise after 1995.





In 1995, she said, "When I came to the Lord Jesus Christ, I threw out about 1,000 tapes of mine—interview, every tape, every video. Everything.



Why do you say Prince and Vanity's relationship technically ended in 1984? Vanity left the Prince camp early August 1983. She wrote in her letters that she did not speak with Prince again until the night she gave him the awards at the AMA in 1985. I think that was when they reconnected. Do you have a different source?
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Reply #337 posted 08/20/17 1:54pm

PennyPurple

avatar

luvgirl said:

Why do you say Prince and Vanity's relationship technically ended in 1984? Vanity left the Prince camp early August 1983. She wrote in her letters that she did not speak with Prince again until the night she gave him the awards at the AMA in 1985. I think that was when they reconnected. Do you have a different source?

There relationship didn't end in 1984. It only ended in the public eye. They kept it going and was still intimate until (89)? They stayed in contact with each other all these years. Toban, Vanity's brother in law told us this info.

[Edited 8/20/17 13:56pm]

Free Poppy's, Bombsquad, 13, Nero, Mdiver, shanti0608, RDhull. If Glamslam can get a 2nd chance, they should be able to also. 2020=CHANGE
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Reply #338 posted 08/20/17 2:21pm

luvgirl

PennyPurple said:



luvgirl said:







Why do you say Prince and Vanity's relationship technically ended in 1984? Vanity left the Prince camp early August 1983. She wrote in her letters that she did not speak with Prince again until the night she gave him the awards at the AMA in 1985. I think that was when they reconnected. Do you have a different source?

There relationship didn't end in 1984. It only ended in the public eye. They kept it going and was still intimate until (89)? They stayed in contact with each other all these years. Toban, Vanity's brother in law told us this info.

[Edited 8/20/17 13:56pm]



From what I understood, it wasn't from 1984 to 1989. TOB first told us that they didn't connect again until 1985 at the AMA. It's in her writings which I have. He then posted that they saw each other off and on in the eighties until 1989 but that had to have been from the point of the AMA in 1985.
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Reply #339 posted 08/20/17 3:24pm

PennyPurple

avatar

luvgirl said:

PennyPurple said:

There relationship didn't end in 1984. It only ended in the public eye. They kept it going and was still intimate until (89)? They stayed in contact with each other all these years. Toban, Vanity's brother in law told us this info.

[Edited 8/20/17 13:56pm]

From what I understood, it wasn't from 1984 to 1989. TOB first told us that they didn't connect again until 1985 at the AMA. It's in her writings which I have. He then posted that they saw each other off and on in the eighties until 1989 but that had to have been from the point of the AMA in 1985.

So your complaint is the year 1984?? Is that what is throwing you off?? 1 year?

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Reply #340 posted 08/20/17 3:54pm

luvgirl

PennyPurple said:



luvgirl said:


PennyPurple said:


There relationship didn't end in 1984. It only ended in the public eye. They kept it going and was still intimate until (89)? They stayed in contact with each other all these years. Toban, Vanity's brother in law told us this info.


[Edited 8/20/17 13:56pm]



From what I understood, it wasn't from 1984 to 1989. TOB first told us that they didn't connect again until 1985 at the AMA. It's in her writings which I have. He then posted that they saw each other off and on in the eighties until 1989 but that had to have been from the point of the AMA in 1985.

So your complaint is the year 1984?? Is that what is throwing you off?? 1 year?



Maybe you don't care about correct info, but I do. A difference between me and you.
[Edited 8/20/17 16:14pm]
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Reply #341 posted 08/20/17 4:03pm

luvgirl

Vashtix said:



OldFriends4Sale said:



Oldfriends4sale said: When I talk about the 'romantic fantasy' I'm talking about the general notion of it, not you specifically. All this information coming in does revolve around a romance.



But you keep saying 'Vanity was the constant' that is fantasy. What does that even mean that she was constant? She was married, what twice? In her religious belief, any emotional attachments with a man that doesn't have to include sex is called adultery.


What do you mean by 'Constant'?


Because if it means what I think in general definition, he was also constant with Susannah & Sheila E through his whole life.




you said:My take is that since Prince and Vanity publicly had let one another go but cirlcled back around to seeing one another it means they had something more than a mere sexual high...


found something in one another their other mates did not have. The leading ladies Sheila E., Susannah, Robin Powers, Jill J., were not Vanity and her other guys were not Prince.


It was for them alone. The other women were Others- Nothing compared to one another.





It technically ended in 1984, not 83.




Well Susan Moonsie comes into it, because in post #303 you said: But the other women were after Vanity. Vanity was always there.



Which I corrected with Susan Moonsie and Prince dated before Vanity came into the scene, and continued a little while Prince & Vanity were dating(leading lady). And it was Susan Moonsie that made the conscious decision to end the romantic side of it.



When Doves Cry? Because Prince tended to play the victim in a lot of his songs. He was the one being left alone, or rejected, or cheated on. Susan Moonsie deciding to remove herself from the growing harem, can easily be seen by Prince as 'leaving me standing in a world alone. She represented a certain type of innocence(hence the 'edge of 17' image she was given) Prince early on would stay at her families house sometimes. She obviously represented some kind of stability ie family.



V, you don't have to reiterate that Vanity and Prince may have continued a fling after 84. I believe they did. I'm just not saying, I find nothing wonderfully loving about it. It was addiction mode. Vanity was in full blown addiction sadly. And Prince wasn't actually in the best places of life himself.
Remember, one of the reasons Vanity left Prince exclusively was that he played mind games with her-something she experienced with her family. And Prince was clearly seeing other women. So to go back to that kind of relationship (if this was any other regular woman) it would be seen as not healthy. In her state of being she was looking for fame and looking for love. Prince couldn't give her that.



They were cool, but I cannot sugar coat how internally this just wasn't a good thing for Vanity.
The fact that she was in such a dark place with Nikki Sixx in 1987, while still seeing Prince showed how it just wasn't good for her all around. Especially being a woman. in the 80s she was a functioning addict. On the surface Vanity had a very good career.



Again, I love Vanity ie Denise Matthews. I've said in some past threads, that if Prince had Vanit 6:Vanity Susan Brenda appear on stage with him, removing Shelby Liv Elise I would go crazy. I always knew they kept in touch, and I'm glad they did. But that was just friendship. She married twice, he married twice. Anything emotionally 'romantic' in their lives during those periods in 1995 would be considered adultery. And I don't want to see them that way. Even though Prince lived out differently than Denise after 1995.





In 1995, she said, "When I came to the Lord Jesus Christ, I threw out about 1,000 tapes of mine—interview, every tape, every video. Everything.



This has become a very intricate discussion biggrin


.



I respect Denise Matthews as an Evangelist and I as I said in my earlier post I was only speaking of the


80s NOT the 90s. Again, I am honestly only speaking of Vanity in the 80s. They are 2 very different people and did different things. I respect an admire the woman Denise fought with blood, tears, and prayers an amazing faith to become. She really has been a real inspiration and I do not want to even try to touch the 90s.


.


I was simply saying since Vanity never went away in 1983 she was constant. The other women got fed up and left , relationships ended and new ones began. She and Prince remained. That is not belittling or discounting any of the women. This is not a competition. I just noted she was constant in that decade once they met. I did not quantify it as a good/bad thing. I really did not want to discuss that either. I am saying it needs to be respected that Prince and Vanity remained after 1983 and for whatever the reason did not quit each other.


.


I appreciate your take on Susan Moonsie whom I really think is adorbs. heart I do have an issue with people treating Vanity like poop on the bottom of their shoes because she did not have that "good home" and Susan did. That is just the wrong to me. I do not think being blessed with a good home deems anyone more entitled to love and be loved than the person who was not born in that "good home" situation.


.


Again I never said there was anything loving or wonderful, good or bad about Prince and Vanity seeing each other after 1983/84. I was just stating in the history of Prince that needs to be noted and not swept under the rug for anyone wanting to know the history of Prince. I mean as I said already she was the main woman the public knew - that RS Cover did a lot for Prince back in the day and like it or not she was big part of it .I was just stating that for those who come after it needs to be noted. It may matter as his story is being researched and retold year, centuries to come.Yes it was romantic in the 80s and I am not embellishing or giving my opinion on the pros and cons of that.


[Edited 8/20/17 11:45am]

[Edited 8/20/17 11:47am]



Vashtix, I understand what you mean by they were constant. She was always in his life someway somehow. I was shocked when TOB revealed that they still saw each other off and on until 89. I agree that Vanity wasn't in a good place at that time due to her addiction. The last thing she needed was to continue a romantic relationship with Prince. But to be honest I was mostly surprised by Prince. I was stunned that he would still try to be in a romantic relationship with her while she was going through such devastating drug addiction. That type of addiction isn't pretty. I replied that I thought it was sad when TOB first posted the information because I thought it was a tremendous indication of how hard it was for the both of them to break the ties with each other even through all that gore. It's sad to me because they had to have known that it was unhealthy for them to be together that way but yet they still forced a connection. I think because they both still wanted that "constant" with each other, even knowing it was bad for them.
[Edited 8/20/17 19:56pm]
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Reply #342 posted 08/20/17 4:23pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

luvgirl said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

That is not disputed.
And I don't see the lyrics as volatile.
I always saw it as complicated, like a lot of relationship can be

especially if there may be broken trust.

A lot of women could say that about Prince.
hell some of the men in the bands could say some of that stuff too.

The song lyrics categorizes the lack of trust and understanding towards a woman he was in a relationship with, who he obviously thought was sleeping around on him, identifying the reason why he still didn't want to leave her.

*

True love before sex U just can't relate

*

Saying that U love me, it don't do no good,

U want me 2 trust U, I wish that I could

U cannot build a house with plastic wood

*

I guess what it is is that I hate your ideas of fun (Oh yeah?) But baby I rate your ass number one

*

I don't usually have time 4 babes with no class, but I can always find time 4 your ass

*

U try to fu*k for love... (This sure looks volatile to me..)

Yes, like a lot of relationships.

Again those lyrics could be also directed at Prince

If you look at them, he makes it seems as if it was Vanity that was unfaithful and trying to convince Prince to trust her.

Did he say she had no class?

"U try 2 fuck 4 love" (that is not volatile) that is what a lot of women do, they think by giving sex to a man he will love her in return. This is age old M/F stuff. Girls give it up to a boy they like hoping he will love her.

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
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Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
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Reply #343 posted 08/20/17 4:37pm

luvgirl

OldFriends4Sale said:



luvgirl said:




OldFriends4Sale said:




That is not disputed.
And I don't see the lyrics as volatile.
I always saw it as complicated, like a lot of relationship can be


especially if there may be broken trust.


A lot of women could say that about Prince.
hell some of the men in the bands could say some of that stuff too.






The song lyrics categorizes the lack of trust and understanding towards a woman he was in a relationship with, who he obviously thought was sleeping around on him, identifying the reason why he still didn't want to leave her.



*



True love before sex U just can't relate



*



Saying that U love me, it don't do no good,


U want me 2 trust U, I wish that I could


U cannot build a house with plastic wood



*



I guess what it is is that I hate your ideas of fun (Oh yeah?) But baby I rate your ass number one



*


I don't usually have time 4 babes with no class, but I can always find time 4 your ass



*


U try to fu*k for love... (This sure looks volatile to me..)






Yes, like a lot of relationships.

Again those lyrics could be also directed at Prince



If you look at them, he makes it seems as if it was Vanity that was unfaithful and trying to convince Prince to trust her.



Did he say she had no class?



"U try 2 fuck 4 love" (that is not volatile) that is what a lot of women do, they think by giving sex to a man he will love her in return. This is age old M/F stuff. Girls give it up to a boy they like hoping he will love her.





lol I'm not buying it OF4S. Let's just agree to disagree. yes
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Reply #344 posted 08/20/17 4:39pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

Vashtix said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

When I talk about the 'romantic fantasy' I'm talking about the general notion of it, not you specifically. All this information coming in does revolve around a romance.

But you keep saying 'Vanity was the constant' that is fantasy. What does that even mean that she was constant? She was married, what twice? In her religious belief, any emotional attachments with a man that doesn't have to include sex is called adultery.

What do you mean by 'Constant'?

Because if it means what I think in general definition, he was also constant with Susannah & Sheila E through his whole life.

you said:My take is that since Prince and Vanity publicly had let one another go but cirlcled back around to seeing one another it means they had something more than a mere sexual high...

found something in one another their other mates did not have. The leading ladies Sheila E., Susannah, Robin Powers, Jill J., were not Vanity and her other guys were not Prince.

It was for them alone. The other women were Others- Nothing compared to one another.

It technically ended in 1984, not 83.

Well Susan Moonsie comes into it, because in post #303 you said: But the other women were after Vanity. Vanity was always there.

Which I corrected with Susan Moonsie and Prince dated before Vanity came into the scene, and continued a little while Prince & Vanity were dating(leading lady). And it was Susan Moonsie that made the conscious decision to end the romantic side of it.

When Doves Cry? Because Prince tended to play the victim in a lot of his songs. He was the one being left alone, or rejected, or cheated on. Susan Moonsie deciding to remove herself from the growing harem, can easily be seen by Prince as 'leaving me standing in a world alone. She represented a certain type of innocence(hence the 'edge of 17' image she was given) Prince early on would stay at her families house sometimes. She obviously represented some kind of stability ie family.

V, you don't have to reiterate that Vanity and Prince may have continued a fling after 84. I believe they did. I'm just not saying, I find nothing wonderfully loving about it. It was addiction mode. Vanity was in full blown addiction sadly. And Prince wasn't actually in the best places of life himself.
Remember, one of the reasons Vanity left Prince exclusively was that he played mind games with her-something she experienced with her family. And Prince was clearly seeing other women. So to go back to that kind of relationship (if this was any other regular woman) it would be seen as not healthy. In her state of being she was looking for fame and looking for love. Prince couldn't give her that.

They were cool, but I cannot sugar coat how internally this just wasn't a good thing for Vanity.
The fact that she was in such a dark place with Nikki Sixx in 1987, while still seeing Prince showed how it just wasn't good for her all around. Especially being a woman. in the 80s she was a functioning addict. On the surface Vanity had a very good career.

Again, I love Vanity ie Denise Matthews. I've said in some past threads, that if Prince had Vanit 6:Vanity Susan Brenda appear on stage with him, removing Shelby Liv Elise I would go crazy. I always knew they kept in touch, and I'm glad they did. But that was just friendship. She married twice, he married twice. Anything emotionally 'romantic' in their lives during those periods in 1995 would be considered adultery. And I don't want to see them that way. Even though Prince lived out differently than Denise after 1995.

In 1995, she said, "When I came to the Lord Jesus Christ, I threw out about 1,000 tapes of mine—interview, every tape, every video. Everything.

This has become a very intricate discussion biggrin

.

I was simply saying since Vanity never went away in 1983 she was constant. The other women got fed up and left , relationships ended and new ones began. She and Prince remained. That is not belittling or discounting any of the women. This is not a competition. I just noted she was constant in that decade once they met. I did not quantify it as a good/bad thing. I really did not want to discuss that either. I am saying it needs to be respected that Prince and Vanity remained after 1983 and for whatever the reason did not quit each other.

.

I appreciate your take on Susan Moonsie whom I really think is adorbs. heart I do have an issue with people treating Vanity like poop on the bottom of their shoes because she did not have that "good home" and Susan did. That is just the wrong to me. I do not think being blessed with a good home deems anyone more entitled to love and be loved than the person who was not born in that "good home" situation.

.

Again I never said there was anything loving or wonderful, good or bad about Prince and Vanity seeing each other after 1983/84. I was just stating in the history of Prince that needs to be noted and not swept under the rug for anyone wanting to know the history of Prince. I mean as I said already she was the main woman the public knew - that RS Cover did a lot for Prince back in the day and like it or not she was big part of it .I was just stating that for those who come after it needs to be noted. It may matter as his story is being researched and retold year, centuries to come.Yes it was romantic in the 80s and I am not embellishing or giving my opinion on the pros and cons of that.

[Edited 8/20/17 11:45am]

[Edited 8/20/17 11:47am]

But Vanity got fed up and left too, V.
She was not constant, constant would imply she was his 'steady' if 'leading lady'

and that wasn't the case. Sometimes in relationships after they end, there is a tapering off period.
Even couples who seperate-divorce have been know to have sex to a finality. That isn't a constant.

I wish she didn't have those demons to fight with, and I wish Prince was more stable. I did like those two together. If not for the romantic fantasy of Purple Music.

Well let's keep it real. I never heard anyone say Susan was 'good home' etc I said that. Please keep it in context of the conversation I said it in. Home is a sense of safety, pre fame safety. That has nothing to do with Vanity, nor Vanity being poop underneath someones boot.
And no where did I ever say it did not entitle someone to be loved. I don't know where U got that from? No one is entitled to be loved, but we all should be loved and need love. Vanity was passing thru 2 Stardom. Susan was not.

.

Well next time someone is dragging Vanity U let me know, I'll come join the debate

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
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Reply #345 posted 08/20/17 6:43pm

luvgirl

OldFriends4Sale said:



Vashtix said:




OldFriends4Sale said:





When I talk about the 'romantic fantasy' I'm talking about the general notion of it, not you specifically. All this information coming in does revolve around a romance.



But you keep saying 'Vanity was the constant' that is fantasy. What does that even mean that she was constant? She was married, what twice? In her religious belief, any emotional attachments with a man that doesn't have to include sex is called adultery.


What do you mean by 'Constant'?


Because if it means what I think in general definition, he was also constant with Susannah & Sheila E through his whole life.




you said:My take is that since Prince and Vanity publicly had let one another go but cirlcled back around to seeing one another it means they had something more than a mere sexual high...


found something in one another their other mates did not have. The leading ladies Sheila E., Susannah, Robin Powers, Jill J., were not Vanity and her other guys were not Prince.


It was for them alone. The other women were Others- Nothing compared to one another.





It technically ended in 1984, not 83.




Well Susan Moonsie comes into it, because in post #303 you said: But the other women were after Vanity. Vanity was always there.



Which I corrected with Susan Moonsie and Prince dated before Vanity came into the scene, and continued a little while Prince & Vanity were dating(leading lady). And it was Susan Moonsie that made the conscious decision to end the romantic side of it.



When Doves Cry? Because Prince tended to play the victim in a lot of his songs. He was the one being left alone, or rejected, or cheated on. Susan Moonsie deciding to remove herself from the growing harem, can easily be seen by Prince as 'leaving me standing in a world alone. She represented a certain type of innocence(hence the 'edge of 17' image she was given) Prince early on would stay at her families house sometimes. She obviously represented some kind of stability ie family.



V, you don't have to reiterate that Vanity and Prince may have continued a fling after 84. I believe they did. I'm just not saying, I find nothing wonderfully loving about it. It was addiction mode. Vanity was in full blown addiction sadly. And Prince wasn't actually in the best places of life himself.
Remember, one of the reasons Vanity left Prince exclusively was that he played mind games with her-something she experienced with her family. And Prince was clearly seeing other women. So to go back to that kind of relationship (if this was any other regular woman) it would be seen as not healthy. In her state of being she was looking for fame and looking for love. Prince couldn't give her that.



They were cool, but I cannot sugar coat how internally this just wasn't a good thing for Vanity.
The fact that she was in such a dark place with Nikki Sixx in 1987, while still seeing Prince showed how it just wasn't good for her all around. Especially being a woman. in the 80s she was a functioning addict. On the surface Vanity had a very good career.



Again, I love Vanity ie Denise Matthews. I've said in some past threads, that if Prince had Vanit 6:Vanity Susan Brenda appear on stage with him, removing Shelby Liv Elise I would go crazy. I always knew they kept in touch, and I'm glad they did. But that was just friendship. She married twice, he married twice. Anything emotionally 'romantic' in their lives during those periods in 1995 would be considered adultery. And I don't want to see them that way. Even though Prince lived out differently than Denise after 1995.





In 1995, she said, "When I came to the Lord Jesus Christ, I threw out about 1,000 tapes of mine—interview, every tape, every video. Everything.



This has become a very intricate discussion biggrin


.




I was simply saying since Vanity never went away in 1983 she was constant. The other women got fed up and left , relationships ended and new ones began. She and Prince remained. That is not belittling or discounting any of the women. This is not a competition. I just noted she was constant in that decade once they met. I did not quantify it as a good/bad thing. I really did not want to discuss that either. I am saying it needs to be respected that Prince and Vanity remained after 1983 and for whatever the reason did not quit each other.


.


I appreciate your take on Susan Moonsie whom I really think is adorbs. heart I do have an issue with people treating Vanity like poop on the bottom of their shoes because she did not have that "good home" and Susan did. That is just the wrong to me. I do not think being blessed with a good home deems anyone more entitled to love and be loved than the person who was not born in that "good home" situation.


.


Again I never said there was anything loving or wonderful, good or bad about Prince and Vanity seeing each other after 1983/84. I was just stating in the history of Prince that needs to be noted and not swept under the rug for anyone wanting to know the history of Prince. I mean as I said already she was the main woman the public knew - that RS Cover did a lot for Prince back in the day and like it or not she was big part of it .I was just stating that for those who come after it needs to be noted. It may matter as his story is being researched and retold year, centuries to come.Yes it was romantic in the 80s and I am not embellishing or giving my opinion on the pros and cons of that.


[Edited 8/20/17 11:45am]


[Edited 8/20/17 11:47am]




But Vanity got fed up and left too, V.
She was not constant, constant would imply she was his 'steady' if 'leading lady'


and that wasn't the case. Sometimes in relationships after they end, there is a tapering off period.
Even couples who seperate-divorce have been know to have sex to a finality. That isn't a constant.



I wish she didn't have those demons to fight with, and I wish Prince was more stable. I did like those two together. If not for the romantic fantasy of Purple Music.



Well let's keep it real. I never heard anyone say Susan was 'good home' etc I said that. Please keep it in context of the conversation I said it in. Home is a sense of safety, pre fame safety. That has nothing to do with Vanity, nor Vanity being poop underneath someones boot.
And no where did I ever say it did not entitle someone to be loved. I don't know where U got that from? No one is entitled to be loved, but we all should be loved and need love. Vanity was passing thru 2 Stardom. Susan was not.


.


Well next time someone is dragging Vanity U let me know, I'll come join the debate





I think Vashtix means constant as in continuing to see each other someway or another for years and years. I don't think her term was implying to leading lady status. They were both seeing other people at various times throughout the years, yet still hanging on to each other. That sure was a lot of tapering off in the history of tapering... It wasn't good for them, no, but they did what they did like it or not because they didn't want to break the connection between each other even though it was bad for them. Who knows, maybe that's what led his sister Sharon to say she thought Denise was the love of his life.
[Edited 8/21/17 5:52am]
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Reply #346 posted 08/20/17 6:55pm

purplefam99

Vashtix said:



OldFriends4Sale said:




Vashtix said:




Please check this- I AM NOT A FANTASY PERSON. I know Prince and Vanity broke up. I appreciate if peeps reading this understand I get that, believe that and note that.


.


I am not saying they were together 4 ever. My point is it has been said Vanity and Prince ended in 1983. I was stating that they did not end in 1983 but years later.


.


I never said anything about Prince not circling back to any other women as we all know he was never a truly monogamous man. Please do not lump me into that camp.


.


As far as Susan Moonsie goes she stayed around til after Appolonia 6 . When Doves Cry speaks of someone leaving the other standing alone. She was there for years after. I will never get that WDC connection. I am not understanding what she has to do with Vanity and Prince still seeing one another past 1983. Susan, Kim Upsher (who it was learned Prince remained close with til she died in 2015) were all part of his harem in the early days. Love Susan!! she is still gorgeous to this day. heart


.


I am saying Prince and Vanity did not end in 1983 but continued into 1989. That means the writers saying Prince hated Vanity etc. was not true. They are not the authorities people make them out to be. Their facts are wrong and it also means that much of the lore from the 80s has been misrepped and their timelines wrong. I am speaking that or posteriorty we need it right. It is not about who likes who or my girl is better than yours etc. It is about the fact that along with the other women at that time Vanity was still around, not banished into some drug induced alley even if she was doing coke and had Nikki Sixx,Billy Idol, and other men as Vanity owned up to having. It needs to be out and spoken of because she was a major person especially since Purple Rain had the romantic leads as Prince and Vanity.


.


I do not know every name of every woman Prince was linked with but there was no real leading lady in my mind if he was still playing Rude Boy to Vanity's Nasty Girl/ The Kid to Apples/Vanity through the 80s decade. Sure they had a public tiff but she was not the other woman to me-NOTE I said to me. I am not discounting any of the other women.


I am not touching the 90s. Please note I am just talking 80s.


.


If any of the women he was seeing had any inkling that Prince was still seeing Vanity I can see it being a troubling spot to then and now. Vanity and Prince hung out, picked peeps up from the airpor and she was attending his concerts and he had that outfit made for her, the one posted from 1986. - they were getting on fine.


.


This info needs to be noted, not for us, but for those after. There is more than the 1 scenario that we have been told over the years. This one needs to be included especially for those who learn about Prince years to come. I will add since Purple Rain was such a mega movie and the female lead was Apples playing Vanity. Vanity needs to stop being talked about as an afterthought,a sick coke head fiend, whore/harlot. She needs to be spoken of in the totality of who and what she was and respected as the other women at that time have been. Prince will be talked of for ages to come. I hope as time goes on and we are farther away from the transitions of Prince and Denise people will place personal biases aside and share real discussion and info. without fear of petty arguments.


.


I am understanding now though why the need to not to validate Denise. Prince and Denise had an understanding. Toban explains it in the other thread on this board. It was way more adult than most can handle esp. if there is need for a fairytale type.traditional romance. They were not traditionalists so it clearly worked for them and allowed it to continue past 1983. Just saying.


I am not talking her health, his health physically/mentally or if it was a good thing to do. I am just saying what has been learned/discussed. Again I never said they never broke up, I never said she was the love of his life, THAT IS NOT what I have said here at all so please do not accuse,attack, or make fun of me for those things. I know this is a touchy, volatile topic and I am not coming for any fanbase, or any person(s). There is no evil passive agressive intent or agenda here. I was just stating info in my opinion needs to be shared.





When I talk about the 'romantic fantasy' I'm talking about the general notion of it, not you specifically. All this information coming in does revolve around a romance.



But you keep saying 'Vanity was the constant' that is fantasy. What does that even mean that she was constant? She was married, what twice? In her religious belief, any emotional attachments with a man that doesn't have to include sex is called adultery.


What do you mean by 'Constant'?


Because if it means what I think in general definition, he was also constant with Susannah & Sheila E through his whole life.




you said:My take is that since Prince and Vanity publicly had let one another go but cirlcled back around to seeing one another it means they had something more than a mere sexual high...


found something in one another their other mates did not have. The leading ladies Sheila E., Susannah, Robin Powers, Jill J., were not Vanity and her other guys were not Prince.


It was for them alone. The other women were Others- Nothing compared to one another.





It technically ended in 1984, not 83.




Well Susan Moonsie comes into it, because in post #303 you said: But the other women were after Vanity. Vanity was always there.



Which I corrected with Susan Moonsie and Prince dated before Vanity came into the scene, and continued a little while Prince & Vanity were dating(leading lady). And it was Susan Moonsie that made the conscious decision to end the romantic side of it.



When Doves Cry? Because Prince tended to play the victim in a lot of his songs. He was the one being left alone, or rejected, or cheated on. Susan Moonsie deciding to remove herself from the growing harem, can easily be seen by Prince as 'leaving me standing in a world alone. She represented a certain type of innocence(hence the 'edge of 17' image she was given) Prince early on would stay at her families house sometimes. She obviously represented some kind of stability ie family.



V, you don't have to reiterate that Vanity and Prince may have continued a fling after 84. I believe they did. I'm just not saying, I find nothing wonderfully loving about it. It was addiction mode. Vanity was in full blown addiction sadly. And Prince wasn't actually in the best places of life himself.
Remember, one of the reasons Vanity left Prince exclusively was that he played mind games with her-something she experienced with her family. And Prince was clearly seeing other women. So to go back to that kind of relationship (if this was any other regular woman) it would be seen as not healthy. In her state of being she was looking for fame and looking for love. Prince couldn't give her that.



They were cool, but I cannot sugar coat how internally this just wasn't a good thing for Vanity.
The fact that she was in such a dark place with Nikki Sixx in 1987, while still seeing Prince showed how it just wasn't good for her all around. Especially being a woman. in the 80s she was a functioning addict. On the surface Vanity had a very good career.



Again, I love Vanity ie Denise Matthews. I've said in some past threads, that if Prince had Vanit 6:Vanity Susan Brenda appear on stage with him, removing Shelby Liv Elise I would go crazy. I always knew they kept in touch, and I'm glad they did. But that was just friendship. She married twice, he married twice. Anything emotionally 'romantic' in their lives during those periods in 1995 would be considered adultery. And I don't want to see them that way. Even though Prince lived out differently than Denise after 1995.





In 1995, she said, "When I came to the Lord Jesus Christ, I threw out about 1,000 tapes of mine—interview, every tape, every video. Everything.



This has become a very intricate discussion biggrin


.



I respect Denise Matthews as an Evangelist and I as I said in my earlier post I was only speaking of the


80s NOT the 90s. Again, I am honestly only speaking of Vanity in the 80s. They are 2 very different people and did different things. I respect an admire the woman Denise fought with blood, tears, and prayers an amazing faith to become. She really has been a real inspiration and I do not want to even try to touch the 90s.


.


I was simply saying since Vanity never went away in 1983 she was constant. The other women got fed up and left , relationships ended and new ones began. She and Prince remained. That is not belittling or discounting any of the women. This is not a competition. I just noted she was constant in that decade once they met. I did not quantify it as a good/bad thing. I really did not want to discuss that either. I am saying it needs to be respected that Prince and Vanity remained after 1983 and for whatever the reason did not quit each other.


.


I appreciate your take on Susan Moonsie whom I really think is adorbs. heart I do have an issue with people treating Vanity like poop on the bottom of their shoes because she did not have that "good home" and Susan did. That is just the wrong to me. I do not think being blessed with a good home deems anyone more entitled to love and be loved than the person who was not born in that "good home" situation.


.


Again I never said there was anything loving or wonderful, good or bad about Prince and Vanity seeing each other after 1983/84. I was just stating in the history of Prince that needs to be noted and not swept under the rug for anyone wanting to know the history of Prince. I mean as I said already she was the main woman the public knew - that RS Cover did a lot for Prince back in the day and like it or not she was big part of it .I was just stating that for those who come after it needs to be noted. It may matter as his story is being researched and retold year, centuries to come.Yes it was romantic in the 80s and I am not embellishing or giving my opinion on the pros and cons of that.


[Edited 8/20/17 11:45am]

[Edited 8/20/17 11:47am]



All very well said Vashtix. And I would agree that in the retelling it does seem
Like Vanity/Denise's history in this story goes unsung. And I think it is important to not let that happen. To not understate her role and place in the history of Prince, let alone her own personal history.
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Reply #347 posted 08/20/17 7:07pm

purplefam99

luvgirl said:

Vashtix said:



OldFriends4Sale said:



Oldfriends4sale said: When I talk about the 'romantic fantasy' I'm talking about the general notion of it, not you specifically. All this information coming in does revolve around a romance.



But you keep saying 'Vanity was the constant' that is fantasy. What does that even mean that she was constant? She was married, what twice? In her religious belief, any emotional attachments with a man that doesn't have to include sex is called adultery.


What do you mean by 'Constant'?


Because if it means what I think in general definition, he was also constant with Susannah & Sheila E through his whole life.




you said:My take is that since Prince and Vanity publicly had let one another go but cirlcled back around to seeing one another it means they had something more than a mere sexual high...


found something in one another their other mates did not have. The leading ladies Sheila E., Susannah, Robin Powers, Jill J., were not Vanity and her other guys were not Prince.


It was for them alone. The other women were Others- Nothing compared to one another.





It technically ended in 1984, not 83.




Well Susan Moonsie comes into it, because in post #303 you said: But the other women were after Vanity. Vanity was always there.



Which I corrected with Susan Moonsie and Prince dated before Vanity came into the scene, and continued a little while Prince & Vanity were dating(leading lady). And it was Susan Moonsie that made the conscious decision to end the romantic side of it.



When Doves Cry? Because Prince tended to play the victim in a lot of his songs. He was the one being left alone, or rejected, or cheated on. Susan Moonsie deciding to remove herself from the growing harem, can easily be seen by Prince as 'leaving me standing in a world alone. She represented a certain type of innocence(hence the 'edge of 17' image she was given) Prince early on would stay at her families house sometimes. She obviously represented some kind of stability ie family.



V, you don't have to reiterate that Vanity and Prince may have continued a fling after 84. I believe they did. I'm just not saying, I find nothing wonderfully loving about it. It was addiction mode. Vanity was in full blown addiction sadly. And Prince wasn't actually in the best places of life himself.
Remember, one of the reasons Vanity left Prince exclusively was that he played mind games with her-something she experienced with her family. And Prince was clearly seeing other women. So to go back to that kind of relationship (if this was any other regular woman) it would be seen as not healthy. In her state of being she was looking for fame and looking for love. Prince couldn't give her that.



They were cool, but I cannot sugar coat how internally this just wasn't a good thing for Vanity.
The fact that she was in such a dark place with Nikki Sixx in 1987, while still seeing Prince showed how it just wasn't good for her all around. Especially being a woman. in the 80s she was a functioning addict. On the surface Vanity had a very good career.



Again, I love Vanity ie Denise Matthews. I've said in some past threads, that if Prince had Vanit 6:Vanity Susan Brenda appear on stage with him, removing Shelby Liv Elise I would go crazy. I always knew they kept in touch, and I'm glad they did. But that was just friendship. She married twice, he married twice. Anything emotionally 'romantic' in their lives during those periods in 1995 would be considered adultery. And I don't want to see them that way. Even though Prince lived out differently than Denise after 1995.





In 1995, she said, "When I came to the Lord Jesus Christ, I threw out about 1,000 tapes of mine—interview, every tape, every video. Everything.



This has become a very intricate discussion biggrin


.



I respect Denise Matthews as an Evangelist and I as I said in my earlier post I was only speaking of the


80s NOT the 90s. Again, I am honestly only speaking of Vanity in the 80s. They are 2 very different people and did different things. I respect an admire the woman Denise fought with blood, tears, and prayers an amazing faith to become. She really has been a real inspiration and I do not want to even try to touch the 90s.


.


I was simply saying since Vanity never went away in 1983 she was constant. The other women got fed up and left , relationships ended and new ones began. She and Prince remained. That is not belittling or discounting any of the women. This is not a competition. I just noted she was constant in that decade once they met. I did not quantify it as a good/bad thing. I really did not want to discuss that either. I am saying it needs to be respected that Prince and Vanity remained after 1983 and for whatever the reason did not quit each other.


.


I appreciate your take on Susan Moonsie whom I really think is adorbs. heart I do have an issue with people treating Vanity like poop on the bottom of their shoes because she did not have that "good home" and Susan did. That is just the wrong to me. I do not think being blessed with a good home deems anyone more entitled to love and be loved than the person who was not born in that "good home" situation.


.


Again I never said there was anything loving or wonderful, good or bad about Prince and Vanity seeing each other after 1983/84. I was just stating in the history of Prince that needs to be noted and not swept under the rug for anyone wanting to know the history of Prince. I mean as I said already she was the main woman the public knew - that RS Cover did a lot for Prince back in the day and like it or not she was big part of it .I was just stating that for those who come after it needs to be noted. It may matter as his story is being researched and retold year, centuries to come.Yes it was romantic in the 80s and I am not embellishing or giving my opinion on the pros and cons of that.


[Edited 8/20/17 11:45am]

[Edited 8/20/17 11:47am]



Vashtix, I understand what you mean by they were constant. She was always in his life someway somehow. I was shocked when TOB revealed that they still saw each other off and on until 89. I agree that Vanity wasn't in a good place at that time due to her addiction. The last thing she needed was to continue a romantic relationship with Prince. But to be honest I was mostly surprised by Prince. I was stunned that he would still try to be in a romantic relationship with her while she was going through such devastating drug addiction. That type of addiction isn't pretty. I replied that I thought it was sad when TOB first posted the information because I thought it was a tremendous indication of how hard it was for the both of them to break the ties with each other even through all that gore. It's sad to me because they had to have known that it was unhealthy for them to be together that way but yet they still forced a connection. I think because they both still wanted that "constant" you talk about, even knowing it was bad for them.
[Edited 8/20/17 18:31pm]


I ache to bring it up but isn't there an unreleased song by prince called
Cold coffee and cocaine. I ran into on google. But her drug use isn't a secret.
But it does make me fear that their initial coupling was not a good recipe. But it seems that they did end up in a stronger healthier place with each other after walking thru fire.
[Edited 8/20/17 19:13pm]
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Reply #348 posted 08/20/17 7:15pm

purplefam99

That was a good discussion and a good read thanks to you all for hashing it out!!
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Reply #349 posted 08/20/17 7:18pm

luvgirl

purplefam99 said:

luvgirl said:



Vashtix, I understand what you mean by they were constant. She was always in his life someway somehow. I was shocked when TOB revealed that they still saw each other off and on until 89. I agree that Vanity wasn't in a good place at that time due to her addiction. The last thing she needed was to continue a romantic relationship with Prince. But to be honest I was mostly surprised by Prince. I was stunned that he would still try to be in a romantic relationship with her while she was going through such devastating drug addiction. That type of addiction isn't pretty. I replied that I thought it was sad when TOB first posted the information because I thought it was a tremendous indication of how hard it was for the both of them to break the ties with each other even through all that gore. It's sad to me because they had to have known that it was unhealthy for them to be together that way but yet they still forced a connection. I think because they both still wanted that "constant" you talk about, even knowing it was bad for them.
[Edited 8/20/17 18:31pm]


I ache to bring it up but isn't there an unreleased song by prince called
Cold coffee and cocaine. I ran into on google. But her drug use isn't a secret.
But it does make me fear that their initial coupling was not a good recipe. But it seems that they did end up in a stronger healthier place with each other after walking thru fire.
[Edited 8/20/17 19:13pm]


Well, in the song Cold Coffee and Cocaine he swore he wasn't gonna see that girl anymore. He sure didn't stop seeing Vanity...
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Reply #350 posted 08/20/17 7:20pm

purplefam99

Do you think the reason for the lasting connection between he and Denise and shelia e could be because there wasn't a huge age gap between them. I think in many ways that leveled the field between him/them. Thoughts on that?
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Reply #351 posted 08/20/17 7:24pm

purplefam99

luvgirl said:

purplefam99 said:



I ache to bring it up but isn't there an unreleased song by prince called
Cold coffee and cocaine. I ran into on google. But her drug use isn't a secret.
But it does make me fear that their initial coupling was not a good recipe. But it seems that they did end up in a stronger healthier place with each other after walking thru fire.
[Edited 8/20/17 19:13pm]


Well, in the song Cold Coffee and Cocaine he swore he wasn't gonna see that girl anymore. He sure didn't stop seeing Vanity...



Nope he sure didn't. He couldn't i don't think. She was too scrumptious!!!
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Reply #352 posted 08/20/17 7:43pm

luvgirl

purplefam99 said:

That was a good discussion and a good read thanks to you all for hashing it out!!


You're so sweet purplefam99. biggrin
I know people speak with authority here like they followed Prince and Vanity around using his famous purple notebook to document their lives, but apart from a few things mentioned here, a lot of the info posted about Denise and Prince in this thread comes from personal opinions, hearsay, and unauthorized books, so take everything with a grain of salt and just know that info could change at any given moment. Just like we recently found out that Prince and Vanity were still seeing each other up until 89 when we thought it was over in 83.
[Edited 8/20/17 19:49pm]
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Reply #353 posted 08/20/17 8:00pm

PennyPurple

avatar

luvgirl said:

PennyPurple said:

So your complaint is the year 1984?? Is that what is throwing you off?? 1 year?

Maybe you don't care about correct info, but I do. A difference between me and you. [Edited 8/20/17 16:14pm]

rolleyes Oh brother, feed us some more BS. lol

Free Poppy's, Bombsquad, 13, Nero, Mdiver, shanti0608, RDhull. If Glamslam can get a 2nd chance, they should be able to also. 2020=CHANGE
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Reply #354 posted 08/20/17 8:01pm

purplefam99

luvgirl said:

purplefam99 said:

That was a good discussion and a good read thanks to you all for hashing it out!!


You're so sweet purplefam99. biggrin
I know people speak with authority here like they followed Prince and Vanity around using his famous purple notebook to document their lives, but apart from a few things mentioned here, a lot of the info posted about Denise and Prince in this thread comes from personal opinions, hearsay, and unauthorized books, so take everything with a grain of salt and just know that info could change at any given moment. Just like we recently found out that Prince and Vanity were still seeing each other up until 89 when we thought it was over in 83.
[Edited 8/20/17 19:49pm]



Likewise luvgirl!!

Yes i assume it is opinion and treat it as such. I appreciate when conversation
Is reciprical as was just the case up above. Agreement isn't always needed for the conversation to be productive. I think the last chuck of posts on this thread
Demonstrate that. Best! smile
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Reply #355 posted 08/20/17 8:05pm

luvgirl

PennyPurple said:



luvgirl said:


PennyPurple said:


So your complaint is the year 1984?? Is that what is throwing you off?? 1 year?



Maybe you don't care about correct info, but I do. A difference between me and you. [Edited 8/20/17 16:14pm]

rolleyes Oh brother, feed us some more BS. lol




Why did a post about me asking for a correct date trigger animosity from you?
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Reply #356 posted 08/20/17 8:06pm

purplefam99

So is their ban from PP indefinite? I really hate Apples broke the rule.
I heard on the prince podcast a couple of workers got fired for something similar.
Guess Graceland co. Is strict with all the peeps!!
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Reply #357 posted 08/20/17 8:15pm

PennyPurple

avatar

luvgirl said:

PennyPurple said:

rolleyes Oh brother, feed us some more BS. lol

Why did a post about me asking for a correct date trigger animosity from you?

Because unless any of us were there, none of us know the correct date. Even P's associates and people who are suppose to be experts can't even come up with the same story. We're not ever going to get the truth.

I've even heard where P & V might have went back as far as '81, before the award show even happened.

Free Poppy's, Bombsquad, 13, Nero, Mdiver, shanti0608, RDhull. If Glamslam can get a 2nd chance, they should be able to also. 2020=CHANGE
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Reply #358 posted 08/20/17 8:27pm

luvgirl

PennyPurple said:



luvgirl said:


PennyPurple said:


rolleyes Oh brother, feed us some more BS. lol



Why did a post about me asking for a correct date trigger animosity from you?

Because unless any of us were there, none of us know the correct date. Even P's associates and people who are suppose to be experts can't even come up with the same story. We're not ever going to get the truth.

I've even heard where P & V might have went back as far as '81, before the award show even happened.



All we have to go by are the Prince associates and books. This is how we know what we know. I'm just a strictler for correct dates because when I debate something I like to come as close to the truth as much as possible. I think it's important to try to give out the correct information as much as you can.
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Reply #359 posted 08/20/17 8:27pm

purplefam99

PennyPurple said:



luvgirl said:


PennyPurple said:


rolleyes Oh brother, feed us some more BS. lol



Why did a post about me asking for a correct date trigger animosity from you?

Because unless any of us were there, none of us know the correct date. Even P's associates and people who are suppose to be experts can't even come up with the same story. We're not ever going to get the truth.

I've even heard where P & V might have went back as far as '81, before the award show even happened.



Yes that is what I understood from one of the books I read that the dates seems to indicate that their initial meeting might have as far back as 81. Was that in Alex's book?
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