luvgirl said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Well if you've followed me at all here, you should know I'm team
Prince, the Rebels(what I call the band before 1982) the Time, the Revolution, Vanity 6, Sheila E(and band) the Family(not team Susannah) Mazarati, Apollonia(her place in the film) Jill Jones, Madhouse, SOTT band

I'm not trying to put any of them in competition with any of the others. I love them all equally for the 'purple culture' they were a part of with Prince. This is the stuff music history and lore is built on.

I do see that you cater to all the associates you've mentioned. I see too that you are enthusiastic and tend to lean in favor of the Revolution/Susannah in all debates. I'm being honest due to my observations. If what you are saying is that you think the people who are calling out Lisa for saying that WA was written for Wendy and Susannah are putting the rev's in competition with Vanity then I think that you are overstating there. There is no competition in questioning something that you think is false. Should we not speak up about something between individuals that we think might be wrong in fear of competing? If it's wrong it's wrong and I won't be afraid to address it. I should have the right to have an honest debate about something that I feel is unfair without being afraid that it will be seen as a competition. That's not my intention. Lisa said something in an article that goes against what some of us knew and we questioned it. It just so happened to be a song that was said to be inspired by Vanity. No competition, just debating what's true and what's false and what falls in the grey areas. It's unfortunate if anyone sees it as competition.

Not cater, those are just my favorites in talking about their times with Prince and some things they've done afterwards.

Not true, you just see, me taking part in arguement or debates that happen to involve those people ie the Revolution members Susannah.
If people were going after Morris Day & the Time, I would be there too. Going hard for them.
But as I said before, there seems to be too much focus, by mostly female fans on their fav female associate artist. That is where the 'battles' are focused. Even when people post threads on 'favorite protege' it seems the men are not counted.

.

Well to be honest, it is not overstating that people are putting this in a place of competition.

post #163 that we are talking again about Wonderful Ass being about who? flamed by Laurarichardson

.

I'm saying, it seems by what you posted, that you cannot/won't consider the idea that many others have, that this song could have an evolutionary process of inspiration. "Right Vashtix, the song was written before Prince even met Susannah. The fact that we know this, the fact that it's been said by more than one qualified associate ( Susan Rogers, Jill Jones, Morris Hayes, and Appolonia) nullifies this whole argument... It was written for Vanity"

.

That is why I asked if you are team Vanity. I'm not "team Susannah. not team Vanity." And I've pointed out explicitely when quoting what Lisa said, that she sited Wendy & Susannah as inspiration when she and Prince were singing the song in the studio. I never once said only Susannah as many who are opposing it continuely re-site.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Vashtix said:

Seems Prince and Denise duped us all.

.

Prince and Vanity were not done in 1983, 84, 85, 86, 87,88,89 . . . .

.

So, that too is another thing Prince kept out of the public eye.ll

.

I think what you said and I bolded is interesting. King of Shade and if you play me you play yourself . . . interesting way to look at it.

.

Prince was king of private and as he kept saying it is all in his music. He gave us all rare glimpses prior to his transition. I am thankful for the Piano and Mic concerts in 2016. They are all priceless.

No, they were done. And I don't think that is a 'celebratory' thing if people are saying they continued sexually. Not at all 4 Vanity. Vanity was also in relationships during this period. including Billy Idol, Nikki 6 etc. And even though 'what is good for the gander is good for the goose' I don't think being 'the other woman' is ever a place of pride.

And in 1986 Vanity partied with Prince & the Revolution at a club after a show, so that was very public.

Just curious why would you call Vanity the other woman? I find that interesting since Prince had a harem. Wouldn't the others be the other woman since Vanity was the constant one?

Vashtix said:

Just curious why would you call Vanity the other woman? I find that interesting since Prince had a harem. Wouldn't the others be the other woman since Vanity was the constant one?

The other women were there before Vanity entered the picture, that would make Vanity the other woman.

PennyPurple said:

But the other women were after Vanity. Vanity was always there. She and Prince never ended.Vanity was there before Susannah Devin D.,Robin Powers etc. Even if she came after she was not the other woman. They all were sharing one man. Unlike the others she was constant. Per new info from Toban it appears they never ended in the 80s.
.
The relationship evolved over decades to deep friendship.
[Edited 8/19/17 16:27pm]

Their sexual relationship was over Vashtix. Their friendship continued. There is a big difference. She walked into P's house that had at least 2 other women living there who were in relationships with him. V. was one of the other women. Her and Prince were never exclusive.

[Edited 8/19/17 16:40pm]

PennyPurple said:

Who did Prince have an exclusive relationship with?
[Edited 8/19/17 17:20pm]

Vashtix said:

PennyPurple said:

The other women were there before Vanity entered the picture, that would make Vanity the other woman.

But the other women were after Vanity. Vanity was always there. She and Prince never ended.Vanity was there before Susannah Devin D.,Robin Powers etc. Even if she came after she was not the other woman. They all were sharing one man. Unlike the others she was constant. Per new info from Toban it appears they never ended in the 80s. . The relationship evolved over decades to deep friendship. [Edited 8/19/17 16:27pm]

Vashtix, that is a romantic fantasy that they never ended. They did.

Also Kim Upsher and Susan Moonsie(Vanity 6) were Prince's girlfriends too, and he was litely seeing Susan when he met Vanity. It was Susan that pulled out. Also he was seeing Jill Jones. I believe those two became intimate somewhere in the same year. Jill came into the camp mid-late 81. Vanity came in mid-late 82 during the end of the Controversy tour.

He knew Kim from High School and Susan early in his career, probably pre For You.

Vashtix said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

No, they were done. And I don't think that is a 'celebratory' thing if people are saying they continued sexually. Not at all 4 Vanity. Vanity was also in relationships during this period. including Billy Idol, Nikki 6 etc. And even though 'what is good for the gander is good for the goose' I don't think being 'the other woman' is ever a place of pride.

And in 1986 Vanity partied with Prince & the Revolution at a club after a show, so that was very public.

Just curious why would you call Vanity the other woman? I find that interesting since Prince had a harem. Wouldn't the others be the other woman since Vanity was the constant one?

In 1982-early 84 before she left the purple camp. Vanity was the leading lady.

After that, whoever was the leading lady, if Vanity was seeing Prince on the down low, she becomes on of the other women.

Prince had 'leading ladies' side ladies and side hook ups/hangouts

OldFriends4Sale said:

We all have our favorite band member or associates. Some of us more enthusiastic than others. It's pretty easy to see who is team whoever here. It's human nature to come to the defense of who it is you respect and admire. I see it all the time. Even with the ones that swear up and down that they are unbiased when it comes to his women or bandmates. If you are here long enough you will know who their favorite's are. It's not rocket science. Outside of the Org, if someone says something negative that I don't agree with about Prince, they'd quickly know where my heart lies... There is nothing wrong with you favoring the rev's and Susannah. I didn't mean it as an insult. It's something that I observed. I observed that you seemed more enthusiastic about them than you are about all other Prince association. Nothing wrong with that. I'm not ashamed to say that I'm more enthusiastic about Vanity. This is a fan site. I had her posters on my walls right along with Prince. But that doesn't mean I don't respect Prince's other female association or that I would carelessly pit any of his women against each other as you seem to assume. If I didn't believe this song was about Vanity, I wouldn't have stated my opinion on the matter.

I think your comment about this being a women's battle and competition between female associates is unfair in this situation because we have cause to debate this song. It just so happen that the song in question is said to be inspired by two women that dated Prince, one of them who i've been a die hard fan of since the age of twelve. Not to mention though, here you are again in a debate of yet another song with me regarding the two same women. I remember in another thread, you leaning towards "The Beautiful Ones" being about Susannah, me leaning towards it being about vanity. Now it's WA. Are you involved in this cat fight competition?

This is not a makeshift argument to fight against protege's. The narrative about a song we've had substantial reasons to believe was inspired by Vanity is being changed. A song that many close associates of Prince came out to challenge Lisa on as to who inspired it as well. If Lisa did not state that WA was written for Wendy and Susannah and the fans did not know that WA was said to be about Vanity, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Just because some of us are not bending to the will of what you and a few others are trying to convey regarding the song, you equate anyone in support of the song being about Vanity to be in a battle or competing? That's not fair. I just don't happen to agree with you, it doesn't mean I'm trying to push competition between anyone. I even stated in my prior post that I choose to believe Lisa's first comment that they were goofing around with the song and that's what she probably meant by the song being about Wendy and Susannah. I don't however buy into all this other forced narrative that I'm hearing. Seems like BS to me. The song was written when it was written. I don't think there's anything wrong with me saying the song was initially for Vanity if it was.
[Edited 8/20/17 4:40am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

Vashtix said:

Just curious why would you call Vanity the other woman? I find that interesting since Prince had a harem. Wouldn't the others be the other woman since Vanity was the constant one?

In 1982-early 84 before she left the purple camp. Vanity was the leading lady.

After that, whoever was the leading lady, if Vanity was seeing Prince on the down low, she becomes on of the other women.

Prince had 'leading ladies' side ladies and side hook ups/hangouts

That is an interesting take on it. I can understand your view and yes I do realize that the romance between Prince and Vanity finally ended. I was just specifically saying throughout the 80s they were not done. I also realize she was lied to initially and found he had other women when she came to Minneapolis. Again, for the record, I am not living in the fantasy of together forever lovers- I get they ended.

.

My take is that since Prince and Vanity publicly had let one another go but cirlcled back around to seeing one another it means they had something more than a mere sexual high and found something in one another their other mates did not have. The leading ladies Sheila E., Susannah, Robin Powers, Jill J., were not Vanity and her other guys were not Prince.

It was for them alone. The other women were Others- Nothing compared to one another.

.

Toban shared the italized words below and it made me realize our Beautiful Ones were hot and heavy for years. Vanity was indeed the leading lady in this scenario the others suited the purpose for the time. IDK, I find it fascinating.

http://prince.org/msg/5/444013?&pg=5

As it seems relevant to the discussion… let me add this.

.

Today I just discovered that Vanity and Prince continued to be romantically involved/intimate still seeing each other up into 1989.

I finally found a moment to read one of Denise earliest (typewritten) editions.

.

Describing the story / Not quoting.

Vanity had gotten tired of his phone ringing all night and into the morning. And though he may have trusted her not to stress him about women, it probably crossed his mind that “Vanity” would answer his phone. Prince just said don’t worry about it, it’s only Kim Basinger.

.

.

Quoting what she wrote would lead to another subject and that to other. I’m just try to stay on topic and trying to avoid having to put out a book.

As a Poet, for me the subject and question being, what mused those two and what drew those two?

[Edited 8/19/17 18:31pm]

[Edited 8/19/17 18:35pm]

Vashtix said:

PennyPurple said:

Their sexual relationship was over Vashtix. Their friendship continued. There is a big difference. She walked into P's house that had at least 2 other women living there who were in relationships with him. V. was one of the other women. Her and Prince were never exclusive.

[Edited 8/19/17 16:40pm]

Who did Prince have an exclusive relationship with? [Edited 8/19/17 17:20pm]

I don't think he ever had an exclusive relationship.

Vashtix said:

I really really like this possibility Vashtix. I think they may have enjoyed the real intimacy that comes with age and knowing someone for so long the deep deep love that doesn't need sex to consummate its revelance. My feeling.

purplegirl00 said:

Yes I could see them seeking each other's council.

benni said:

Yes I could see this scenario, as our guy could be vindictive. Ala "I hate you"
And carmen.

Vashtix said:

So if I am getting you right Vashtix, if he gave the song away to be spiteful in regards to vanity he would be looking back on that relationship and still dwelling on it or maybe perhaps they were still seeing each other??? Hmmmmm interesting possibility.

PennyPurple said:

School me who were the 2 before V? Thx

OldFriends4Sale said:

I kinda feel like they didn't capture his attention like Vanity. Like they were yummy but not scrumptious.

Vashtix said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

In 1982-early 84 before she left the purple camp. Vanity was the leading lady.

After that, whoever was the leading lady, if Vanity was seeing Prince on the down low, she becomes on of the other women.

Prince had 'leading ladies' side ladies and side hook ups/hangouts

That is an interesting take on it. I can understand your view and yes I do realize that the romance between Prince and Vanity finally ended. I was just specifically saying throughout the 80s they were not done. I also realize she was lied to initially and found he had other women when she came to Minneapolis. Again, for the record, I am not living in the fantasy of together forever lovers- I get they ended.

.

My take is that since Prince and Vanity publicly had let one another go but cirlcled back around to seeing one another it means they had something more than a mere sexual high and found something in one another their other mates did not have. The leading ladies Sheila E., Susannah, Robin Powers, Jill J., were not Vanity and her other guys were not Prince.

It was for them alone. The other women were Others- Nothing compared to one another.

.

Toban shared the italized words below and it made me realize our Beautiful Ones were hot and heavy for years. Vanity was indeed the leading lady in this scenario the others suited the purpose for the time. IDK, I find it fascinating.

http://prince.org/msg/5/444013?&pg=5

As it seems relevant to the discussion… let me add this.

.

Today I just discovered that Vanity and Prince continued to be romantically involved/intimate still seeing each other up into 1989.

I finally found a moment to read one of Denise earliest (typewritten) editions.

.

Describing the story / Not quoting.

Vanity had gotten tired of his phone ringing all night and into the morning. And though he may have trusted her not to stress him about women, it probably crossed his mind that “Vanity” would answer his phone. Prince just said don’t worry about it, it’s only Kim Basinger.

.

.

Quoting what she wrote would lead to another subject and that to other. I’m just try to stay on topic and trying to avoid having to put out a book.

As a Poet, for me the subject and question being, what mused those two and what drew those two?

[Edited 8/19/17 18:31pm]

[Edited 8/19/17 18:35pm]

Just because Prince might have continued to 'circle' back to Vanity, doesn't mean it is a good thing.
Sadly Vanity was dealing with a serious issue of addiction. She was in with Nikki Sixx as well. and that was just not a good situation.
Addictions and Sex and two of the worst combinations. So the 'circling back' is most likely not a good thing. Even in Addiction recoveries, people are told to refrain from getting in relationships for a while. And even people not addicted to a drug/alchohol whether it is family-friend-lover can be pulled into the addicted loved ones addiction cycle. 'Love Addiction' combined amps up the bad.

I just isn't anything to be romanticized. It is a vicious raw emotionally and physically 'violent' cycle.

Sheila E suffered sexual abuse at a younger age. So she was wrestling with her demons as well.
I've read that it took some time for Sheila E to cut that part off with Prince, and that it did possibly continue into the early 90s.

But she knew it wasn't good for her.
Some of these women were strong enough to just move on in that dept. Where was it going to lead but the same thing. So that they did not 'circle back' is a good thing.

I don't think Jill or Robyn were 'leading ladies' they were never in that position to be known that way. If anything acress Troy Beyer was, being very visible with Prince.

But Vanity, Susannah Melvoin, Sheila E, Kim Bassinger, Troy Beyer, Nona Gaye, Mayte...

Prince's relationship with Nona also involved heavy drug use on her part. People make up reason why Prince went the Mayte route, was because he wasn't going to marry Nona mostly because of the drug addiction.

purplefam99 said:

PennyPurple said:

Their sexual relationship was over Vashtix. Their friendship continued. There is a big difference. She walked into P's house that had at least 2 other women living there who were in relationships with him. V. was one of the other women. Her and Prince were never exclusive.

[Edited 8/19/17 16:40pm]

School me who were the 2 before V? Thx

(in the camp)
Kim Upsher

Susan Moonsie ie Private Joy, When Doves Cry

OldFriends4Sale said:

Thx OF4S!

purplefam99 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Vashtix, that is a romantic fantasy that they never ended. They did.

Also Kim Upsher and Susan Moonsie(Vanity 6) were Prince's girlfriends too, and he was litely seeing Susan when he met Vanity. It was Susan that pulled out. Also he was seeing Jill Jones. I believe those two became intimate somewhere in the same year. Jill came into the camp mid-late 81. Vanity came in mid-late 82 during the end of the Controversy tour.

He knew Kim from High School and Susan early in his career, probably pre For You.

I kinda feel like they didn't capture his attention like Vanity. Like they were yummy but not scrumptious.

Eh Susan Moonsie, was more put together. She came from a stable family.
And she didn't want to be caught up in what she saw to be a 'harem' forming.
She was the one who cut it off, and when Apollonia 6 was done she went and got

and education, and her own family.

Remember Susan Moonsie & Vanity along with Brenda were very tight. They knew

everything going on. And Moonsie made a conscious decision to be platonic friends with Prince, and friends with Vanity.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Vashtix said:

PennyPurple said: But the other women were after Vanity. Vanity was always there. She and Prince never ended.Vanity was there before Susannah Devin D.,Robin Powers etc. Even if she came after she was not the other woman. They all were sharing one man. Unlike the others she was constant. Per new info from Toban it appears they never ended in the 80s. . The relationship evolved over decades to deep friendship. [Edited 8/19/17 16:27pm]

Vashtix, that is a romantic fantasy that they never ended. They did.

Also Kim Upsher and Susan Moonsie(Vanity 6) were Prince's girlfriends too, and he was litely seeing Susan when he met Vanity. It was Susan that pulled out. Also he was seeing Jill Jones. I believe those two became intimate somewhere in the same year. Jill came into the camp mid-late 81. Vanity came in mid-late 82 during the end of the Controversy tour.

Yep and Denise was not the only one of the original ladies he started looking back to in the 90s.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Do you have the source that Prince wanted to get Vanity 6 back together around that time but Vanity was not well? I'd like to read that if you have information on it.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Vashtix said:

That is an interesting take on it. I can understand your view and yes I do realize that the romance between Prince and Vanity finally ended. I was just specifically saying throughout the 80s they were not done. I also realize she was lied to initially and found he had other women when she came to Minneapolis. Again, for the record, I am not living in the fantasy of together forever lovers- I get they ended.

.

My take is that since Prince and Vanity publicly had let one another go but cirlcled back around to seeing one another it means they had something more than a mere sexual high and found something in one another their other mates did not have. The leading ladies Sheila E., Susannah, Robin Powers, Jill J., were not Vanity and her other guys were not Prince.

It was for them alone. The other women were Others- Nothing compared to one another.

.

Toban shared the italized words below and it made me realize our Beautiful Ones were hot and heavy for years. Vanity was indeed the leading lady in this scenario the others suited the purpose for the time. IDK, I find it fascinating.

http://prince.org/msg/5/444013?&pg=5

As it seems relevant to the discussion… let me add this.

.

Today I just discovered that Vanity and Prince continued to be romantically involved/intimate still seeing each other up into 1989.

I finally found a moment to read one of Denise earliest (typewritten) editions.

.

Describing the story / Not quoting.

Vanity had gotten tired of his phone ringing all night and into the morning. And though he may have trusted her not to stress him about women, it probably crossed his mind that “Vanity” would answer his phone. Prince just said don’t worry about it, it’s only Kim Basinger.

.

.

Quoting what she wrote would lead to another subject and that to other. I’m just try to stay on topic and trying to avoid having to put out a book.

As a Poet, for me the subject and question being, what mused those two and what drew those two?

[Edited 8/19/17 18:31pm]

[Edited 8/19/17 18:35pm]

Just because Prince might have continued to 'circle' back to Vanity, doesn't mean it is a good thing.
Sadly Vanity was dealing with a serious issue of addiction. She was in with Nikki Sixx as well. and that was just not a good situation.
Addictions and Sex and two of the worst combinations. So the 'circling back' is most likely not a good thing. Even in Addiction recoveries, people are told to refrain from getting in relationships for a while. And even people not addicted to a drug/alchohol whether it is family-friend-lover can be pulled into the addicted loved ones addiction cycle. 'Love Addiction' combined amps up the bad.

I just isn't anything to be romanticized. It is a vicious raw emotionally and physically 'violent' cycle.

Sheila E suffered sexual abuse at a younger age. So she was wrestling with her demons as well.
I've read that it took some time for Sheila E to cut that part off with Prince, and that it did possibly continue into the early 90s.

But she knew it wasn't good for her.
Some of these women were strong enough to just move on in that dept. Where was it going to lead but the same thing. So that they did not 'circle back' is a good thing.

I don't think Jill or Robyn were 'leading ladies' they were never in that position to be known that way. If anything acress Troy Beyer was, being very visible with Prince.

But Vanity, Susannah Melvoin, Sheila E, Kim Bassinger, Troy Beyer, Nona Gaye, Mayte...

Prince's relationship with Nona also involved heavy drug use on her part. People make up reason why Prince went the Mayte route, was because he wasn't going to marry Nona mostly because of the drug addiction.

Please check this- I AM NOT A FANTASY PERSON. I know Prince and Vanity broke up. I appreciate if peeps reading this understand I get that, believe that and note that.

.

I am not saying they were together 4 ever. My point is it has been said Vanity and Prince ended in 1983. I was stating that they did not end in 1983 but years later.

.

I never said anything about Prince not circling back to any other women as we all know he was never a truly monogamous man. Please do not lump me into that camp.

.

As far as Susan Moonsie goes she stayed around til after Appolonia 6 . When Doves Cry speaks of someone leaving the other standing alone. She was there for years after. I will never get that WDC connection. I am not understanding what she has to do with Vanity and Prince still seeing one another past 1983. Susan, Kim Upsher (who it was learned Prince remained close with til she died in 2015) were all part of his harem in the early days. Love Susan!! she is still gorgeous to this day.

.

I am saying Prince and Vanity did not end in 1983 but continued into 1989. That means the writers saying Prince hated Vanity etc. was not true. They are not the authorities people make them out to be. Their facts are wrong and it also means that much of the lore from the 80s has been misrepped and their timelines wrong. I am speaking that or posteriorty we need it right. It is not about who likes who or my girl is better than yours etc. It is about the fact that along with the other women at that time Vanity was still around, not banished into some drug induced alley even if she was doing coke and had Nikki Sixx,Billy Idol, and other men as Vanity owned up to having. It needs to be out and spoken of because she was a major person especially since Purple Rain had the romantic leads as Prince and Vanity.

.

I do not know every name of every woman Prince was linked with but there was no real leading lady in my mind if he was still playing Rude Boy to Vanity's Nasty Girl/ The Kid to Apples/Vanity through the 80s decade. Sure they had a public tiff but she was not the other woman to me-NOTE I said to me. I am not discounting any of the other women.

I am not touching the 90s. Please note I am just talking 80s.

.

If any of the women he was seeing had any inkling that Prince was still seeing Vanity I can see it being a troubling spot to then and now. Vanity and Prince hung out, picked peeps up from the airpor and she was attending his concerts and he had that outfit made for her, the one posted from 1986. - they were getting on fine.

.

This info needs to be noted, not for us, but for those after. There is more than the 1 scenario that we have been told over the years. This one needs to be included especially for those who learn about Prince years to come. I will add since Purple Rain was such a mega movie and the female lead was Apples playing Vanity. Vanity needs to stop being talked about as an afterthought,a sick coke head fiend, whore/harlot. She needs to be spoken of in the totality of who and what she was and respected as the other women at that time have been. Prince will be talked of for ages to come. I hope as time goes on and we are farther away from the transitions of Prince and Denise people will place personal biases aside and share real discussion and info. without fear of petty arguments.

.

I am understanding now though why the need to not to validate Denise. Prince and Denise had an understanding. Toban explains it in the other thread on this board. It was way more adult than most can handle esp. if there is need for a fairytale type.traditional romance. They were not traditionalists so it clearly worked for them and allowed it to continue past 1983. Just saying.

I am not talking her health, his health physically/mentally or if it was a good thing to do. I am just saying what has been learned/discussed. Again I never said they never broke up, I never said she was the love of his life, THAT IS NOT what I have said here at all so please do not accuse,attack, or make fun of me for those things. I know this is a touchy, volatile topic and I am not coming for any fanbase, or any person(s). There is no evil passive agressive intent or agenda here. I was just stating info in my opinion needs to be shared.

PennyPurple said:

Who were the two other women that lived with Prince when Denise first arrived? Yes, she walked into the apartment to see Brenda and Susan, but Susan had her own apartment and Brenda was not in a relationship with him. Who else are you saying lived there at that time? I don't recall TOB saying that any other ladies lived there apart from Brenda.
[Edited 8/20/17 6:22am]

benni said:

This is a valid point, but although I think he might have done that with other songs, I don't believe he did that with WA due to the lyric content. The lyrics in the song are really volatile lyrics, even hostile and angry in points. The epitome of his love/hate relationship with Vanity. He didn't seem to have that kind of lack of trust towards Susannah and don't forget Wendy is supposed to be involved in all of this. Why would he later attribute those lyrics to Susannah/Wendy? I just can't see how anyone would think that the lyrics in that song was intended for any of those ladies at any point.
[Edited 8/20/17 7:47am]

Vashtix said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Just because Prince might have continued to 'circle' back to Vanity, doesn't mean it is a good thing.
Sadly Vanity was dealing with a serious issue of addiction. She was in with Nikki Sixx as well. and that was just not a good situation.
Addictions and Sex and two of the worst combinations. So the 'circling back' is most likely not a good thing. Even in Addiction recoveries, people are told to refrain from getting in relationships for a while. And even people not addicted to a drug/alchohol whether it is family-friend-lover can be pulled into the addicted loved ones addiction cycle. 'Love Addiction' combined amps up the bad.

I just isn't anything to be romanticized. It is a vicious raw emotionally and physically 'violent' cycle.

Sheila E suffered sexual abuse at a younger age. So she was wrestling with her demons as well.
I've read that it took some time for Sheila E to cut that part off with Prince, and that it did possibly continue into the early 90s.

But she knew it wasn't good for her.
Some of these women were strong enough to just move on in that dept. Where was it going to lead but the same thing. So that they did not 'circle back' is a good thing.

I don't think Jill or Robyn were 'leading ladies' they were never in that position to be known that way. If anything acress Troy Beyer was, being very visible with Prince.

But Vanity, Susannah Melvoin, Sheila E, Kim Bassinger, Troy Beyer, Nona Gaye, Mayte...

Prince's relationship with Nona also involved heavy drug use on her part. People make up reason why Prince went the Mayte route, was because he wasn't going to marry Nona mostly because of the drug addiction.

Please check this- I AM NOT A FANTASY PERSON. I know Prince and Vanity broke up. I appreciate if peeps reading this understand I get that, believe that and note that.

.

I am not saying they were together 4 ever. My point is it has been said Vanity and Prince ended in 1983. I was stating that they did not end in 1983 but years later.

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I never said anything about Prince not circling back to any other women as we all know he was never a truly monogamous man. Please do not lump me into that camp.

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As far as Susan Moonsie goes she stayed around til after Appolonia 6 . When Doves Cry speaks of someone leaving the other standing alone. She was there for years after. I will never get that WDC connection. I am not understanding what she has to do with Vanity and Prince still seeing one another past 1983. Susan, Kim Upsher (who it was learned Prince remained close with til she died in 2015) were all part of his harem in the early days. Love Susan!! she is still gorgeous to this day.

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I am saying Prince and Vanity did not end in 1983 but continued into 1989. That means the writers saying Prince hated Vanity etc. was not true. They are not the authorities people make them out to be. Their facts are wrong and it also means that much of the lore from the 80s has been misrepped and their timelines wrong. I am speaking that or posteriorty we need it right. It is not about who likes who or my girl is better than yours etc. It is about the fact that along with the other women at that time Vanity was still around, not banished into some drug induced alley even if she was doing coke and had Nikki Sixx,Billy Idol, and other men as Vanity owned up to having. It needs to be out and spoken of because she was a major person especially since Purple Rain had the romantic leads as Prince and Vanity.

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I do not know every name of every woman Prince was linked with but there was no real leading lady in my mind if he was still playing Rude Boy to Vanity's Nasty Girl/ The Kid to Apples/Vanity through the 80s decade. Sure they had a public tiff but she was not the other woman to me-NOTE I said to me. I am not discounting any of the other women.

I am not touching the 90s. Please note I am just talking 80s.

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If any of the women he was seeing had any inkling that Prince was still seeing Vanity I can see it being a troubling spot to then and now. Vanity and Prince hung out, picked peeps up from the airpor and she was attending his concerts and he had that outfit made for her, the one posted from 1986. - they were getting on fine.

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This info needs to be noted, not for us, but for those after. There is more than the 1 scenario that we have been told over the years. This one needs to be included especially for those who learn about Prince years to come. I will add since Purple Rain was such a mega movie and the female lead was Apples playing Vanity. Vanity needs to stop being talked about as an afterthought,a sick coke head fiend, whore/harlot. She needs to be spoken of in the totality of who and what she was and respected as the other women at that time have been. Prince will be talked of for ages to come. I hope as time goes on and we are farther away from the transitions of Prince and Denise people will place personal biases aside and share real discussion and info. without fear of petty arguments.

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I am understanding now though why the need to not to validate Denise. Prince and Denise had an understanding. Toban explains it in the other thread on this board. It was way more adult than most can handle esp. if there is need for a fairytale type.traditional romance. They were not traditionalists so it clearly worked for them and allowed it to continue past 1983. Just saying.

I am not talking her health, his health physically/mentally or if it was a good thing to do. I am just saying what has been learned/discussed. Again I never said they never broke up, I never said she was the love of his life, THAT IS NOT what I have said here at all so please do not accuse,attack, or make fun of me for those things. I know this is a touchy, volatile topic and I am not coming for any fanbase, or any person(s). There is no evil passive agressive intent or agenda here. I was just stating info in my opinion needs to be shared.

When I talk about the 'romantic fantasy' I'm talking about the general notion of it, not you specifically. All this information coming in does revolve around a romance.

But you keep saying 'Vanity was the constant' that is fantasy. What does that even mean that she was constant? She was married, what twice? In her religious belief, any emotional attachments with a man that doesn't have to include sex is called adultery.

What do you mean by 'Constant'?

Because if it means what I think in general definition, he was also constant with Susannah & Sheila E through his whole life.

you said:My take is that since Prince and Vanity publicly had let one another go but cirlcled back around to seeing one another it means they had something more than a mere sexual high...

found something in one another their other mates did not have. The leading ladies Sheila E., Susannah, Robin Powers, Jill J., were not Vanity and her other guys were not Prince.

It was for them alone. The other women were Others- Nothing compared to one another.

It technically ended in 1984, not 83.

Well Susan Moonsie comes into it, because in post #303 you said: But the other women were after Vanity. Vanity was always there.

Which I corrected with Susan Moonsie and Prince dated before Vanity came into the scene, and continued a little while Prince & Vanity were dating(leading lady). And it was Susan Moonsie that made the conscious decision to end the romantic side of it.

When Doves Cry? Because Prince tended to play the victim in a lot of his songs. He was the one being left alone, or rejected, or cheated on. Susan Moonsie deciding to remove herself from the growing harem, can easily be seen by Prince as 'leaving me standing in a world alone. She represented a certain type of innocence(hence the 'edge of 17' image she was given) Prince early on would stay at her families house sometimes. She obviously represented some kind of stability ie family.

V, you don't have to reiterate that Vanity and Prince may have continued a fling after 84. I believe they did. I'm just not saying, I find nothing wonderfully loving about it. It was addiction mode. Vanity was in full blown addiction sadly. And Prince wasn't actually in the best places of life himself.
Remember, one of the reasons Vanity left Prince exclusively was that he played mind games with her-something she experienced with her family. And Prince was clearly seeing other women. So to go back to that kind of relationship (if this was any other regular woman) it would be seen as not healthy. In her state of being she was looking for fame and looking for love. Prince couldn't give her that.

They were cool, but I cannot sugar coat how internally this just wasn't a good thing for Vanity.
The fact that she was in such a dark place with Nikki Sixx in 1987, while still seeing Prince showed how it just wasn't good for her all around. Especially being a woman. in the 80s she was a functioning addict. On the surface Vanity had a very good career.

Again, I love Vanity ie Denise Matthews. I've said in some past threads, that if Prince had Vanit 6:Vanity Susan Brenda appear on stage with him, removing Shelby Liv Elise I would go crazy. I always knew they kept in touch, and I'm glad they did. But that was just friendship. She married twice, he married twice. Anything emotionally 'romantic' in their lives during those periods in 1995 would be considered adultery. And I don't want to see them that way. Even though Prince lived out differently than Denise after 1995.

In 1995, she said, "When I came to the Lord Jesus Christ, I threw out about 1,000 tapes of mine—interview, every tape, every video. Everything.

luvgirl said:

benni said:

I don't think any one is denying when the song was written, merely that it is possible that Prince recycled the song and told the next lady in the mix that it was about her. And if that is the case, then Wendy is not lying, only relaying information she believed was true because that is what she was told by Prince. And with the way Prince would do remixes of songs, it's possible that any remix he did to a song was inspired by the next lady, while the first lady inspired the first version. And, again, Prince could have written a song for his own reasons, but him, being Prince, knew that if he told a woman it was about her, she'd swoon and give him whatever he wanted. Personally, I think Denise did inspire the song originally, but Prince, having moved on from Denise at that time, later told Wendy it was about Susannah. It could even have been an issue in which Prince was hurt by Denise leaving and wanted to hurt her in return by giving away the song he'd told was for her, so that it would not be associated with Denise (in his mind and the minds of those around him) any more.

This is a valid point, but although I think he might have done that with other songs, I don't believe he did that with WA due to the lyric content. The lyrics in the song are really volatile lyrics, even hostile and angry in points. The epitome of his love/hate relationship with Vanity. He didn't seem to have that kind of relationship with Susannah and don't forget Wendy is supposed to be involved in all of this. Why would he later attribute those lyrics to Susannah/Wendy? I just can't see how anyone would think that the lyrics in that song was intended for them at any point. [Edited 8/20/17 7:21am]

Actually those lyrics, probably describe Prince more than anything. He had a good way of sitting in the other persons seat and looking back at him and writing songs.

Like Do Me Baby is sang exclusively from a womans stand point.

Those lyrics any person at various degrees could ascribe to Prince.

luvgirl said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I think you misunderstand my post about Vanity. I'm replying to things about the later 80s when Vanity was no longer in the camp.
As I said above, "I knew for a while that Vanity & Prince stayed in touch"

I know there are team Vanity team Jill team Mayte team Susannah etc people

I'm not into that. I always loved Vanity.

When Prince was working with the Time again leading up to Graffiti Bridge, Brenda & Susan Moonsie were also in the mix and there was talk of getting Vanity 6 together, but it was noted that Vanity was not well at all at that time.

Do you have the source that Prince wanted to get Vanity 6 back together around that time but Vanity was not well? I'd like to read that if you have information on it.

I'll try to locate it. It was posted on a Vanity6/Apollonia 6 fb page. I believe it was a quote from Brenda Bennett.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yea but this time we know that the song was intially inspired by Vanity so she obviously inspired the lyrics and the lyrics actually fit their volatile relationship.
[Edited 8/20/17 7:52am]