terrig said:

sosgemini said:

Again, goodwill is a commodity that has an actual market value. With Prince making "ZERO" off of his decades long ass project, what value is he earning off that hard work by denying his previous employees the opportunity to associate themselves with their own history? Yet, by denying them, just as he is doing with The Time, how much goodwill and cash is it costing him?

The outrage generated from this is the second largest flair up that I have seen since since coming to his site. The dude already can't sell albums and has now put his tour/live show business in jeopardy to protect what? A brand that he is no longer financially capatalizing on? And you are gonna type lengthy dissertations defending him based on smart business sense? Get out of town.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL. this is preposterous. silly.

prince can do what he wants because ....it's his stuff. he doesn thave to do anything with it at all.

It's not his. People have already posted that Prince has no legal ownership over the name. What he does have is the time and energy to hire (not pay, only hire) attorneys who threaten people. And mark my words, while this hasn't made an impact on the dudes concert career, if he continues this crazy acting behavior (not paying attorneys or vendors, cancelling concerts and cutting of relationships and partnerships), he's soon gonna find himself broke. We all know the dude outspends what he earns. We all know he hires unqualified people to run his business. He doesn't pay his taxes on time and ends up paying tons in fees and penalties and he can't even pay his attorney. The dude is heading down a hole that not even Alice could climb out of. It's sad and scary. Tis really is.

sosgemini said:

The dude already can't sell albums and has now put his tour/live show business in jeopardy to protect what?

You are living in a complete dream world if you believe either of these statements to be true.

Prince is on the verge of selling 50,000 tickets to his UK festival performance in July at £70 a ticket where he is as of yet the only announced act for the entire day (and yes, people already attending the festival on prior days also have to pay extra if they want to stay for the 3rd day).

He's playing on three separate days at the North Sea Jazz Festival the following week. Again, damn near sold out already.

The reality is he could do this anywhere in the world.

You are seriously fucking deluded if you think that a business tiff with an associated act from 25 years ago who are only familiar to hardcore Prince fans in the first place, and some small time controversy about it on his fan forums and facebook will "put his tour/live show business in jeopardy". It won't have even the slightest effect. Do you even see any small time internet music blogs reporting it? Let alone mass media? There we are then.

And LOL at "can't sell albums". LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL. Prince could do a deal with any major TODAY, have the album out within a few months and sell a TON of albums if that's what he wanted to do. Fact.

sosgemini said:

terrig said:

LOLOLOLOLOLOL. this is preposterous. silly.

prince can do what he wants because ....it's his stuff. he doesn thave to do anything with it at all.

It's not his. People have already posted that Prince has no legal ownership over the name. What he does have is the time and energy to hire (not pay, only hire) attorneys who threaten people. And mark my words, while this hasn't made an impact on the dudes concert career, if he continues this crazy acting behavior (not paying attorneys or vendors, cancelling concerts and cutting of relationships and partnerships), he's soon gonna find himself broke. We all know the dude outspends what he earns. We all know he hires unqualified people to run his business. He doesn't pay his taxes on time and ends up paying tons in fees and penalties and he can't even pay his attorney. The dude is heading down a hole that not even Alice could climb out of. It's sad and scary. Tis really is.

you're too dumb to argue with.

Militant said:

sosgemini said:

The dude already can't sell albums and has now put his tour/live show business in jeopardy to protect what?

You are living in a complete dream world if you believe either of these statements to be true.

Prince is on the verge of selling 50,000 tickets to his UK festival performance in July at £70 a ticket where he is as of yet the only announced act for the entire day (and yes, people already attending the festival on prior days also have to pay extra if they want to stay for the 3rd day).

He's playing on three separate days at the North Sea Jazz Festival the following week. Again, damn near sold out already.

The reality is he could do this anywhere in the world.

You are seriously fucking deluded if you think that a business tiff with an associated act from 25 years ago who are only familiar to hardcore Prince fans in the first place, and some small time controversy about it on his fan forums and facebook will "put his tour/live show business in jeopardy". It won't have even the slightest effect. Do you even see any small time internet music blogs reporting it? Let alone mass media? There we are then.

And LOL at "can't sell albums". LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL. Prince could do a deal with any major TODAY, have the album out within a few months and sell a TON of albums if that's what he wanted to do. Fact.

Do you know how many people "dont" bother dealing with him because of how he treats his fans and his assery? Everyone has to have their apologist I guess. Your response and the fashion for which you are giving it is telling.

ps. Do I think there's a large likelyhood of Prince's concert business being hurt? No, but again, why start all this drama if it's going to hurt his branding and "goodwill"? If the press were to start reporting on this stuff and making fun of Prince, yes, yes it could start to hurt his reputation and concert sales. And by stuff I mean the entire drama. Him not paying vendors and attornies or his taxes. His abuse of the judicial system to intimidate and scare former bandmembers. If a CJ or Howard Stern or Kevin Smith were to point out all this stuff and mock Prince for it...it could and would hurt his career.

I don't know why you are giving the tude and acting like Prince is your momma. You don't have to agree with me and I don't think I am being irrational in my contributions within this discussion.

[Edited 5/22/11 7:36am]

Militant said:

Thanks, Xibalba.

Zannaloaf, since you want to play the game of industry experience by stating that you "worked for WEA back in the day", I'll simply let you know right now that I've been in and around the industry my entire life, have plenty of experience with indies and majors, been signed as an artist to both Sony/BMG and EMI, have plenty of personal insight to music copyright law and trademarks (indie label we worked with back in the day illegally licensed our music under different names, we had a 2 year court case against them which we won), and I'm perfectly aware of the creativity of various people along the chain, but that's completely irrelevant..........surely you aren't suggesting there is any HIGHER level of creative involvement than writing, composing and producing the songs?

For all intents and purposes - "The Family" is a Prince album that he released under a different name and had a couple of good looking folks sing lead. That doesn't take anything away from the talents of the people involved, but that is the TRUTH.

Same with the first two Time albums. Jam & Lewis are two of the most talented cats on the planet, but "The Time" and "What Time Is It" are Prince albums that he chose to release under the facade of it being a band, with his friends singing lead vocals and performing the songs live as his opening act. Simply because he had more music than he could release himself and that wasn't necessarily suitable for his own vision of his albums.

Again, that's the cold hard truth of the matter.

And since you don't seem to know how a vanity label works - Warners gave Prince specific budgets in which to run his record label. He chose where and on what that money was spent on. So yes - he funded it. Could have put all that money straight into his own pocket if he wanted to, and not spent a dime on organising photo and video shoots, marketing, etc.

You know what? Prince could go out on to the street outside Paisley Park right now, find 5 random kids, have one of them sing some lead vocals on a bunch of songs he has, and tomorrow release that album under the name "The Family". He'd be perfectly entitled to do that. It's his prerogative. And that's essentially what he did the first time anyway Just instead of random kids, it was his girlfriend (Susannah), a good looking singer who he felt was marketable (Paul) and some of his friends that didn't have a project because the previous one they were in had broken up (Jerome and Bean).

Fdeluxe are not ENTITLED in any way to use branding or association of Prince's work. Sorry. They just aren't. So again, whether your personal opinion is that he should let them use it or not.... what you have to accept is that it IS his call to make. Period.

If they existed as a unit prior to what Prince did.... and if they had written and released songs prior to that.....and if they had come up with that name beforehand and been signed to a record label or had any kind of following/fame.... it would be a completely different story. But they didn't.

Furthermore, it seems kind of strange to me that after KNOWING they weren't going to be able to use the name, they just thought "Oh well we'll just call the band something else and call the album The Family instead"....... like some sort of sly backdoor method to achieve the exact same thing they wanted and were denied in the first place.

So now the band is Fdeluxe and the album is Gaslight.... so it's all good. I look forward to it. Why didn't they just do that from jump and avoid all this drama in the first place? Do they feel that they are now at some sort of disadvantage? And if that's the case, then it logically follows that the "The Family" branding has some value and therefore Prince is right to protect his intellectual property (ie, the branding which he created).

So- being that you know how the industry works (and depending on WHEN you are talking about- min was the mid 80s) you know that a label can make or break an artist. Am I saying all of the talent and creativity are in the label? Of course not. But I can tell you that if you want the kind of international presence someone like Prince enjoys chances are there was a creative team behind the artist- talented or not. That is a sad fact for 98% of artists to reach that stature. My point is you can't remove that element from Princes status as a pop superstar. Considering some artists output I could argue that the talent lies IN the marketing...lol.

Lets take your point about Prince writing and playing all (except of course sax and strings which were composed by those artists and contribute dramatically to that album imo - and River Run Dry) of the material and then two people coming in and singing on it. What about great Motown groups? Or Philly groups form the 70s? Those guys (Tempations, Four Tops, Ojays, etc) were written for and produced for and mostly (not all) just sang on top. What if the people who "branded" those sounds and songs decided to pull their ability to perform or record under those names? Would that be fair? I'm sure most people would agree that would be messed up. I would - and I feel the same way about this.

I'm sure Warners gave him the money with the expectation of product. Yeah- he could have pocketed it, but then his label would have shut down. That's kind of a pointless point you've made. It's not like they said - Here's some money. By all means use it for whatever you like. And he just CHOSE to use it for developing the album and band.

They can perform the songs live...so why is THAT allowed if they should not have any ability to be associated back to the Family?

I get your point, but in a courtroom in could go either way. I suspect they don't want to get caught up in that. At the end of the day it may very well be Prince's call by virtue of his deep pockets and name in the industry. But I - and many people- can still feel it falls very short of his own proclamations regarding the industry and his much hyped "faith". As i said somewhere else , he has become "the man". If that suits him, so be it.

to all of you who responded to my post when i mentioned that legal divisions check on trademark registration each day and routinely send notices to infringing mark holders - i don't know if prince authorized this letter to the fDeluxe folk or not.

however, what i doknow is that for most corporations, this kind of thing is pretty ho-hum. not a big deal. sending out a notice letter is just what is done, and it does not involve the CEO

sosgemini said:

Militant said:

You are living in a complete dream world if you believe either of these statements to be true.

Prince is on the verge of selling 50,000 tickets to his UK festival performance in July at £70 a ticket where he is as of yet the only announced act for the entire day (and yes, people already attending the festival on prior days also have to pay extra if they want to stay for the 3rd day).

He's playing on three separate days at the North Sea Jazz Festival the following week. Again, damn near sold out already.

The reality is he could do this anywhere in the world.

You are seriously fucking deluded if you think that a business tiff with an associated act from 25 years ago who are only familiar to hardcore Prince fans in the first place, and some small time controversy about it on his fan forums and facebook will "put his tour/live show business in jeopardy". It won't have even the slightest effect. Do you even see any small time internet music blogs reporting it? Let alone mass media? There we are then.

And LOL at "can't sell albums". LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL. Prince could do a deal with any major TODAY, have the album out within a few months and sell a TON of albums if that's what he wanted to do. Fact.

Do you know how many people "dont" bother dealing with him because of how he treats his fans and his assery? Everyone has to have their apologist I guess. Your response and the fashion for which you are giving it is telling.

ps. Do I think there's a large likelyhood of Prince's concert business being hurt? No, but again, why start all this drama if it's going to hurt his branding and "goodwill"? If the press were to start reporting on this stuff and making fun of Prince, yes, yes it could start to hurt his reputation and concert sales. And by stuff I mean the entire drama. Him not paying vendors and attornies or his taxes. His abuse of the judicial system to intimidate and scare former bandmembers. If a CJ or Howard Stern or Kevin Smith were to point out all this stuff and mock Prince for it...it could and would hurt his career.

I don't know why you are giving the tude and acting like Prince is your momma. You don't have to agree with me and I don't think I am being irrational in my contributions within this discussion.

[Edited 5/22/11 7:36am]

I don't agree with your thinking that if these issues were made public that it would have an affect on ticket sales. The man is still the best live performer out there and the majority of the people attending couldn't give a shit what he does off-stage. Especially when it's all crap from one side of the fence, I'm sure as hell not going to let that affect me enjoying his music or concerts.

Zannaloaf said:

So- being that you know how the industry works (and depending on WHEN you are talking about- min was the mid 80s) you know that a label can make or break an artist. Am I saying all of the talent and creativity are in the label? Of course not. But I can tell you that if you want the kind of international presence someone like Prince enjoys chances are there was a creative team behind the artist- talented or not. That is a sad fact for 98% of artists to reach that stature. My point is you can't remove that element from Princes status as a pop superstar. Considering some artists output I could argue that the talent lies IN the marketing...lol.

Lets take your point about Prince writing and playing all (except of course sax and strings which were composed by those artists and contribute dramatically to that album imo - and River Run Dry) of the material and then two people coming in and singing on it. What about great Motown groups? Or Philly groups form the 70s? Those guys (Tempations, Four Tops, Ojays, etc) were written for and produced for and mostly (not all) just sang on top. What if the people who "branded" those sounds and songs decided to pull their ability to perform or record under those names? Would that be fair? I'm sure most people would agree that would be messed up. I would - and I feel the same way about this.

I'm sure Warners gave him the money with the expectation of product. Yeah- he could have pocketed it, but then his label would have shut down. That's kind of a pointless point you've made. It's not like they said - Here's some money. By all means use it for whatever you like. And he just CHOSE to use it for developing the album and band.

They can perform the songs live...so why is THAT allowed if they should not have any ability to be associated back to the Family?

I get your point, but in a courtroom in could go either way. I suspect they don't want to get caught up in that. At the end of the day it may very well be Prince's call by virtue of his deep pockets and name in the industry. But I - and many people- can still feel it falls very short of his own proclamations regarding the industry and his much hyped "faith". As i said somewhere else , he has become "the man". If that suits him, so be it.

Not that I ever paid much attention to the details, but I recall a lot of problems with the different incarnations of the Temptations & Four Tops performing in the later years. All sorts of stuff about original band members, using the band names, songs, etc., so it's not like these nostalgia acts always flourish with no legal problems of their own.

Serena said:

Not that I ever paid much attention to the details, but I recall a lot of problems with the different incarnations of the Temptations & Four Tops performing in the later years. All sorts of stuff about original band members, using the band names, songs, etc., so it's not like these nostalgia acts always flourish with no legal problems of their own.

'The Jackson 5' wasn't allowed to record under that name when they left Motown either.

QuasarOfRock said:

Serena said:

'The Jackson 5' wasn't allowed to record under that name when they left Motown either.

Exactly. I was just about to make that point in response to what Zannaloaf had said. Furthermore, they were called The Jackson 5 BEFORE they signed to Motown. But rather than getting all caught up in it, they simply renamed themselves as The Jacksons and moved on.

Militant said:

QuasarOfRock said:

'The Jackson 5' wasn't allowed to record under that name when they left Motown either.

Exactly. I was just about to make that point in response to what Zannaloaf had said. Furthermore, they were called The Jackson 5 BEFORE they signed to Motown. But rather than getting all caught up in it, they simply renamed themselves as The Jacksons and moved on.

The Beach Boys have also had their share of similar legal problems:

http://www.independent.co...15714.html

sosgemini said:

Militant said:

You are living in a complete dream world if you believe either of these statements to be true.

Prince is on the verge of selling 50,000 tickets to his UK festival performance in July at £70 a ticket where he is as of yet the only announced act for the entire day (and yes, people already attending the festival on prior days also have to pay extra if they want to stay for the 3rd day).

He's playing on three separate days at the North Sea Jazz Festival the following week. Again, damn near sold out already.

The reality is he could do this anywhere in the world.

You are seriously fucking deluded if you think that a business tiff with an associated act from 25 years ago who are only familiar to hardcore Prince fans in the first place, and some small time controversy about it on his fan forums and facebook will "put his tour/live show business in jeopardy". It won't have even the slightest effect. Do you even see any small time internet music blogs reporting it? Let alone mass media? There we are then.

And LOL at "can't sell albums". LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL. Prince could do a deal with any major TODAY, have the album out within a few months and sell a TON of albums if that's what he wanted to do. Fact.

Do you know how many people "dont" bother dealing with him because of how he treats his fans and his assery? Everyone has to have their apologist I guess. Your response and the fashion for which you are giving it is telling.

ps. Do I think there's a large likelyhood of Prince's concert business being hurt? No, but again, why start all this drama if it's going to hurt his branding and "goodwill"? If the press were to start reporting on this stuff and making fun of Prince, yes, yes it could start to hurt his reputation and concert sales. And by stuff I mean the entire drama. Him not paying vendors and attornies or his taxes. His abuse of the judicial system to intimidate and scare former bandmembers. If a CJ or Howard Stern or Kevin Smith were to point out all this stuff and mock Prince for it...it could and would hurt his career.

I don't know why you are giving the tude and acting like Prince is your momma. You don't have to agree with me and I don't think I am being irrational in my contributions within this discussion.

[Edited 5/22/11 7:36am]

and knowing your mean ***, you would must likely tip them off!

Serena said:

Zannaloaf said:

So- being that you know how the industry works (and depending on WHEN you are talking about- min was the mid 80s) you know that a label can make or break an artist. Am I saying all of the talent and creativity are in the label? Of course not. But I can tell you that if you want the kind of international presence someone like Prince enjoys chances are there was a creative team behind the artist- talented or not. That is a sad fact for 98% of artists to reach that stature. My point is you can't remove that element from Princes status as a pop superstar. Considering some artists output I could argue that the talent lies IN the marketing...lol.

Lets take your point about Prince writing and playing all (except of course sax and strings which were composed by those artists and contribute dramatically to that album imo - and River Run Dry) of the material and then two people coming in and singing on it. What about great Motown groups? Or Philly groups form the 70s? Those guys (Tempations, Four Tops, Ojays, etc) were written for and produced for and mostly (not all) just sang on top. What if the people who "branded" those sounds and songs decided to pull their ability to perform or record under those names? Would that be fair? I'm sure most people would agree that would be messed up. I would - and I feel the same way about this.

I'm sure Warners gave him the money with the expectation of product. Yeah- he could have pocketed it, but then his label would have shut down. That's kind of a pointless point you've made. It's not like they said - Here's some money. By all means use it for whatever you like. And he just CHOSE to use it for developing the album and band.

They can perform the songs live...so why is THAT allowed if they should not have any ability to be associated back to the Family?

I get your point, but in a courtroom in could go either way. I suspect they don't want to get caught up in that. At the end of the day it may very well be Prince's call by virtue of his deep pockets and name in the industry. But I - and many people- can still feel it falls very short of his own proclamations regarding the industry and his much hyped "faith". As i said somewhere else , he has become "the man". If that suits him, so be it.

Not that I ever paid much attention to the details, but I recall a lot of problems with the different incarnations of the Temptations & Four Tops performing in the later years. All sorts of stuff about original band members, using the band names, songs, etc., so it's not like these nostalgia acts always flourish with no legal problems of their own.

but that was because it was entirety different singers than the originals. Very different point.

Militant said:

QuasarOfRock said:

'The Jackson 5' wasn't allowed to record under that name when they left Motown either.

Exactly. I was just about to make that point in response to what Zannaloaf had said. Furthermore, they were called The Jackson 5 BEFORE they signed to Motown. But rather than getting all caught up in it, they simply renamed themselves as The Jacksons and moved on.

I'm aware of this, but it's a bad point to make since Berry Gordy doesn't exactly enjoy a stellar reputation with a lot of the acts who worked under him.

Zannaloaf said:

Militant said:

Exactly. I was just about to make that point in response to what Zannaloaf had said. Furthermore, they were called The Jackson 5 BEFORE they signed to Motown. But rather than getting all caught up in it, they simply renamed themselves as The Jacksons and moved on.

I'm aware of this, but it's a bad point to make since Berry Gordy doesn't exactly enjoy a stellar reputation with a lot of the acts who worked under him.

Zannaloaf said:

Serena said:

Not that I ever paid much attention to the details, but I recall a lot of problems with the different incarnations of the Temptations & Four Tops performing in the later years. All sorts of stuff about original band members, using the band names, songs, etc., so it's not like these nostalgia acts always flourish with no legal problems of their own.

but that was because it was entirety different singers than the originals. Very different point.

I don't know if I'm remembering correctly or not, but part of the issue was because there were an (some) original members wanting to use the original names/materials.

Serena said:

Zannaloaf said:

but that was because it was entirety different singers than the originals. Very different point.

I don't know if I'm remembering correctly or not, but part of the issue was because there were an (some) original members wanting to use the original names/materials.

not exactly sure who you are referring to here....

Booooooring. Who cares... I mean seriously.. If its not your bank and your legal issues, why get all emotionally involved in it?

GaryMF said:

Militant: given all your experience why haven't you responded to the fact that: 1. It's been verified that prince does NOT own the trademark 2. Titles ofnworks cannot be copyrighted.

I'm aware that that's been said and for all I know it may or may not bet true - without knowing the nuances of that kind of law I simply don't have anything further to say on the matter and without knowing the details of what was in the letters sent by Prince's attorney it's pointless. I believe that Prince has an idea in his head as for the usage of "The Family", regardless of how fully formed it is, and that's supported by the fact that Neil has stated that Prince met with the band and they discussed reissuing the album and touring for it. Of course Fdeluxe don't want to sit around waiting for something to happen on his end and that's understandable, but the fact remains that Prince is NOT a bully, I do not believe he wants to be deliberately malicious to the band and therefore, in his own words, "we should just chill... he may know something none of us knows".

At this point, without knowing further information of how Prince feels the whole discussion is done, dusted, and pointless, let's enjoy the new music that Fdeluxe are about to release, of which I've actually been brainstorming marketing ideas from my own experiences of what works in the current music industry, privately with Neil (SHOCKING, RIGHT?), and move on without any further vitriol from anyone towards either party. I fail to see why a business deal in which there are some problems and frustrations from people involved entitles people here, so-called fans, who have NOTHING to do with it, to sit here and throw jabs at Prince, judge him and attack with him whilst having absolutely no idea how what his perspective is.

And I never said anything about titles of works.

Militant said:

GaryMF said:

Militant: given all your experience why haven't you responded to the fact that: 1. It's been verified that prince does NOT own the trademark 2. Titles ofnworks cannot be copyrighted.

I'm aware that that's been said and for all I know it may or may not bet true - without knowing the nuances of that kind of law I simply don't have anything further to say on the matter and without knowing the details of what was in the letters sent by Prince's attorney it's pointless. I believe that Prince has an idea in his head as for the usage of "The Family", regardless of how fully formed it is, and that's supported by the fact that Neil has stated that Prince met with the band and they discussed reissuing the album and touring for it. Of course Fdeluxe don't want to sit around waiting for something to happen on his end and that's understandable, but the fact remains that Prince is NOT a bully, I do not believe he wants to be deliberately malicious to the band and therefore, in his own words, "we should just chill... he may know something none of us knows".

At this point, without knowing further information of how Prince feels the whole discussion is done, dusted, and pointless, let's enjoy the new music that Fdeluxe are about to release, of which I've actually been brainstorming marketing ideas from my own experiences of what works in the current music industry, privately with Neil (SHOCKING, RIGHT?), and move on without any further vitriol from anyone towards either party. I fail to see why a business deal in which there are some problems and frustrations from people involved entitles people here, so-called fans, who have NOTHING to do with it, to sit here and throw jabs at Prince, judge him and attack with him whilst having absolutely no idea how what his perspective is.

And I never said anything about titles of works.

Wait, so your gonna post dissertation after dissertation on this incident and then act like nobody else should? Wow! Oh wait, you have the right cause you're "in the industry".

Zannaloaf said:

Serena said:

I don't know if I'm remembering correctly or not, but part of the issue was because there were an (some) original members wanting to use the original names/materials.

not exactly sure who you are referring to here....

Old groups like the Temptations, Four Tops, etc..

sosgemini said:

Militant said:

I'm aware that that's been said and for all I know it may or may not bet true - without knowing the nuances of that kind of law I simply don't have anything further to say on the matter and without knowing the details of what was in the letters sent by Prince's attorney it's pointless. I believe that Prince has an idea in his head as for the usage of "The Family", regardless of how fully formed it is, and that's supported by the fact that Neil has stated that Prince met with the band and they discussed reissuing the album and touring for it. Of course Fdeluxe don't want to sit around waiting for something to happen on his end and that's understandable, but the fact remains that Prince is NOT a bully, I do not believe he wants to be deliberately malicious to the band and therefore, in his own words, "we should just chill... he may know something none of us knows".

At this point, without knowing further information of how Prince feels the whole discussion is done, dusted, and pointless, let's enjoy the new music that Fdeluxe are about to release, of which I've actually been brainstorming marketing ideas from my own experiences of what works in the current music industry, privately with Neil (SHOCKING, RIGHT?), and move on without any further vitriol from anyone towards either party. I fail to see why a business deal in which there are some problems and frustrations from people involved entitles people here, so-called fans, who have NOTHING to do with it, to sit here and throw jabs at Prince, judge him and attack with him whilst having absolutely no idea how what his perspective is.

And I never said anything about titles of works.

Wait, so your gonna post dissertation after dissertation on this incident and then act like nobody else should? Wow! Oh wait, you have the right cause you're "in the industry".

Not what I said. I never personally attacked either side. And the matter was unfolding at the time. Now we know everything about it from Neil who has posted as much information about his perspective as he can. So all that's left is Prince's perspective. Which we don't know. So the matter is now over.

I think your bitter, sarcastic jab is more telling than anything else, so feel free to continue wasting your time addressing me continuously if you wish. Pretty obvious you don't have any thing of any further value to add.

Militant said:

sosgemini said:

Wait, so your gonna post dissertation after dissertation on this incident and then act like nobody else should? Wow! Oh wait, you have the right cause you're "in the industry".

Not what I said. I never personally attacked either side. And the matter was unfolding at the time. Now we know everything about it from Neil who has posted as much information about his perspective as he can. So all that's left is Prince's perspective. Which we don't know. So the matter is now over.

I think your bitter, sarcastic jab is more telling than anything else, so feel free to continue wasting your time addressing me continuously if you wish. Pretty obvious you don't have any thing of any further value to add.

And you do? What happened to that big listen about the meaning and reason for online forums and how people should have the right to say what they want and how it's all about sharing opinions ad what not?

And I'm not bitter nor am I jabbing. Just participating in this fun online forum---just like you. Just, I'm not in "the industry".

IMHO the only reason Prince bothers to prevent FDeluxe to use the name (or title) "The Family" and The Time to use the name "The Time" is because of the upcoming remasters.

I think that if said artists use the names they had when working with Prince on new projects without Prince, this could give them a right to claim that the albums are theirs to reclaim when it's time to get the masters back from WB, since they could say "We ARE The Time/The Family independently of Prince, so these masters are ours". The law seems to be blurry in that respect (who gets the masters exactly) but that could be a heavy reason for a judge to give them the masters or a share of them if the whole thing had to go to court, and Prince's lawyers probably advised him against letting them use the names.

I can't see any other reason. Wonder what will happen if Jill Jones, Mavis Staples or Carmen Electra want to reclaim their masters, as Prince couldn't copyright their names

Militant said:

sosgemini said:

The dude already can't sell albums and has now put his tour/live show business in jeopardy to protect what?

You are living in a complete dream world if you believe either of these statements to be true.

Prince is on the verge of selling 50,000 tickets to his UK festival performance in July at £70 a ticket where he is as of yet the only announced act for the entire day (and yes, people already attending the festival on prior days also have to pay extra if they want to stay for the 3rd day).

He's playing on three separate days at the North Sea Jazz Festival the following week. Again, damn near sold out already.

The reality is he could do this anywhere in the world.

You are seriously fucking deluded if you think that a business tiff with an associated act from 25 years ago who are only familiar to hardcore Prince fans in the first place, and some small time controversy about it on his fan forums and facebook will "put his tour/live show business in jeopardy". It won't have even the slightest effect. Do you even see any small time internet music blogs reporting it? Let alone mass media? There we are then.

And LOL at "can't sell albums". LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL. Prince could do a deal with any major TODAY, have the album out within a few months and sell a TON of albums if that's what he wanted to do. Fact.

^

Militant said:

sosgemini said:

The dude already can't sell albums and has now put his tour/live show business in jeopardy to protect what?

You are living in a complete dream world if you believe either of these statements to be true.

Prince is on the verge of selling 50,000 tickets to his UK festival performance in July at £70 a ticket where he is as of yet the only announced act for the entire day (and yes, people already attending the festival on prior days also have to pay extra if they want to stay for the 3rd day).

He's playing on three separate days at the North Sea Jazz Festival the following week. Again, damn near sold out already.

The reality is he could do this anywhere in the world.

You are seriously fucking deluded if you think that a business tiff with an associated act from 25 years ago who are only familiar to hardcore Prince fans in the first place, and some small time controversy about it on his fan forums and facebook will "put his tour/live show business in jeopardy". It won't have even the slightest effect. Do you even see any small time internet music blogs reporting it? Let alone mass media? There we are then.

And LOL at "can't sell albums". LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL. Prince could do a deal with any major TODAY, have the album out within a few months and sell a TON of albums if that's what he wanted to do. Fact.

Just what is your definition of "a ton of albums"?? C'mon, let's face it. Even HE knows his shit ain't hittin' no more, which is why it's not even a priority to release anything. No one outside of his hardcore fan base is going to buy it, something he said recently when he said the albums were for the hardcores while the concert are more for everybody. And, his "ton" of hardcores dwindles with each passing year.

databank said:

IMHO the only reason Prince bothers to prevent FDeluxe to use the name (or title) "The Family" and The Time to use the name "The Time" is because of the upcoming remasters.

I think that if said artists use the names they had when working with Prince on new projects without Prince, this could give them a right to claim that the albums are theirs to reclaim when it's time to get the masters back from WB, since they could say "We ARE The Time/The Family independently of Prince, so these masters are ours". The law seems to be blurry in that respect (who gets the masters exactly) but that could be a heavy reason for a judge to give them the masters or a share of them if the whole thing had to go to court, and Prince's lawyers probably advised him against letting them use the names.

I can't see any other reason. Wonder what will happen if Jill Jones, Mavis Staples or Carmen Electra want to reclaim their masters, as Prince couldn't copyright their names

Prince however did came up with Carmen Electra that isnt her real name.

^ Yes i know but she kept using it afterwards. I guess that u can legally copyright a band's name but that (thanks God) u can't copyright a person's name (or nickname) unless maybe u're the person in question.

databank said:

^ Yes i know but she kept using it afterwards. I guess that u can legally copyright a band's name but that (thanks God) u can't copyright a person's name (or nickname) unless maybe u're the person in question.

Everyone, please stop implying Prince copyrighted the "Famly" name. You can't copyright a name, you trademark it.

And Alan Leeds and Neil have indicated (with proof from the US TM database) that neither Prince nor the current Fdeluxe own that trademark.

(MILITANT: This goes to you too).