New topic
PrintableRolling Stone Magazine and NME are also running this story
Don't you just love the way he gets people jumping through hoops? Much as I find the threats to the websites reprehensible, you have to have a grudging respect for the lawn ornaments ability to manipulate the media | |
- E-mail - orgNote -  Report post to moderator |
|
What is Prince about?
Jehovah Witnesses condemn homosexuality... We can't have an opinion on him... He's happy enough taking our money... I've loved Prince since i discovered Dirty Mind(in a bargain bin)in 1981. I bought it becuase i loved the cover (plus i was only 9).. but hearing the music was incredible. This is the 1st time i find myself actually disliking him. For all these years of discussing artistic freedom and now trying to silence his fans is absurd. So what.. an artist can discuss what they want but the general public can't? Prince has become dull and middle aged. I never thought i'd type such i thing. xx |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I´ve been a fan since 1984 but this whole situation is really sickening and discouraging. I still like this community but I don´t think I will ever spend a single cent on Prince records or concerts anymore. There are too many other great artists out there who deserve my money more than Prince and who don´t treat their fans like shit. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I've just had a long and extensive discussion with a Trading Standards officer regarding the posted Web Sheriff email and the situation as a whole
Firstly, regarding images, email Web Sheriff and ask them who owns the copyright on the images they are objecting to They then have to prove they own the copyright to each and every image As they don't own the copyright that isn't going to happen Unless there is a specific contract between a fan and the artist stating that no photography will take place, the copyright to the photograph belongs to the person who takes it Simply putting "no photography" on the tickets and on signs does not constitute a contract and is therefore insufficient I also raised the issue of cameras and camera phones being confiscated at shows and returned at the end of the night This also appears to be legally dubious Second, should this go to court, you always have the option of serving a subpoena on the artist to ask him, under oath, to explain exactly how the images have damaged his reputation I would love to hear that explanation Thirdly, the claim of copyright on the correspondence from Web Sheriff raised a laugh from Trading Standards The exact words were "it's a bluff" The same phrase was used in relation to the request for lawyers details in France, Germany, Holland etc The simple answer should be "I don't have lawyers in those countries, talk to me" That's the opinion of a Trading Standards officer with 18 years experience I have considerable access to Trading Standards officers and other experts in the field of copyright and trademark within the UK and should any of the moderators of this site wish any research undertaken I would be more than happy to assist It won't cost a penny One last thing, insist on Web Sheriff having an individual sign emails and letters Simply signing it "Web Sheriff" is ridiculous, how can a company sign a letter or email? A company doesn't sign, an individual does, and an individual is liable should the correspondence be found to be factually inaccurate, libellous, or malicious You should insist on a name and their position within the company Personal liability cuts both ways | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I sit and shake my head at this. I have got over the initial shock but my thoughts and feelings have been stewing overnight and it has just distilled my anger, disappointment and feelings of betrayal. Usually I sit and listen to Prince on my ipod whilst on the org but I just can't bring myself to hear his voice, hear the once deep meanings that now feel shallow.
Reading that letter from Web-sherrif this morning threatening further legal action if we all don't shut the hell up made me want to throw my ipod out of the nearest window. This action is disgusting - the bullying tactics and attempts to gag any protest to the original issues are appalling. Are there any lawyers in the house who can shed some more light onto where the sites stand on this? I wonder what the mood is like at Paisley Park and whichever 'purple palace' he's at these days? I hope that his camp are worrying about their future, about whether they're gonna have a job soon or an artist to support and work for. Did Prince wake up this morning, read his emails and skim these sites and think 'Shit. What have I done?!' I sincerely hope so. I hope that the worldwide headlines that this situation has created has made him really take stock of what's going on and if we've all got it wrong then I hope he takes charge and comes out to explain what's REALLY going on. The longer he keeps shtum about this the angrier the fans are going to feel and the more betrayed we're going to feel. Sorry this is such a long and whiney post but I'm SO pissed off right now - until Prince comes out and says 'hey you know what, this has gone too far, let's talk properly about this' or 'Hell yeah, all you lot can go fuck yourselves' I won't be able to settle. It's the not knowing for sure that's pissing me off. I'm not stopping. I haven't even taken my coat off
C'mon and dance while you, while you still have your cherry babe, cherry babe.. www.KerrysCakes.org.uk | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Markland said: I've just had a long and extensive discussion with a Trading Standards officer regarding the posted Web Sheriff email and the situation as a whole
Firstly, regarding images, email Web Sheriff and ask them who owns the copyright on the images they are objecting to They then have to prove they own the copyright to each and every image As they don't own the copyright that isn't going to happen Unless there is a specific contract between a fan and the artist stating that no photography will take place, the copyright to the photograph belongs to the person who takes it Simply putting "no photography" on the tickets and on signs does not constitute a contract and is therefore insufficient I also raised the issue of cameras and camera phones being confiscated at shows and returned at the end of the night This also appears to be legally dubious Second, should this go to court, you always have the option of serving a subpoena on the artist to ask him, under oath, to explain exactly how the images have damaged his reputation I would love to hear that explanation Thirdly, the claim of copyright on the correspondence from Web Sheriff raised a laugh from Trading Standards The exact words were "it's a bluff" The same phrase was used in relation to the request for lawyers details in France, Germany, Holland etc The simple answer should be "I don't have lawyers in those countries, talk to me" That's the opinion of a Trading Standards officer with 18 years experience I have considerable access to Trading Standards officers and other experts in the field of copyright and trademark within the UK and should any of the moderators of this site wish any research undertaken I would be more than happy to assist It won't cost a penny One last thing, insist on Web Sheriff having an individual sign emails and letters Simply signing it "Web Sheriff" is ridiculous, how can a company sign a letter or email? A company doesn't sign, an individual does, and an individual is liable should the correspondence be found to be factually inaccurate, libellous, or malicious You should insist on a name and their position within the company Personal liability cuts both ways Thank you Markland - I, for one really appreciate this information. Knowlege is power!  I'm not stopping. I haven't even taken my coat off
C'mon and dance while you, while you still have your cherry babe, cherry babe.. www.KerrysCakes.org.uk | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
prttygyrl7 said:  i dont care...I still LOVE him!!!!!  i loved him b4 his fan sites and i'll love him afterMe too !!!!! More than ever ! Prince is showing the world once again that he is in a league of his own when it comes to self hype and media manipulation.  [Edited 11/7/07 3:52am] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
this train wreck is both facsinating and really, really sad to watch.
anyhoo, as i understand things in addition to the copyright issue prince is apparently making a case against the ORG for defamation and libel. he has requested that our remarks and comments be mediated for content. IF i understand the situation (and i have no access to the pertinent documents, nor am i a legal authority) this case arises from 1) the PFU website and our collective reactions to this legal onslaught posted thereon; and 2) prior comments and remarks posted on the ORG, which prince's legal team considers to be defamatory and libelous. do threads like "does prince have a vagina?" contain libelous elements? defamatory elements? certainly they are kinda childish and irresponsible. imo some of our threads are questionable, when considered from prince's perspective. even public figures can make a case when it comes to defamation and libel, IF they can prove that the individual who publishes such allegedly libelous and defamatory statements did so "with malicious intent" in knowing violation of the actual truth. meaning, we would all have to be ignoring the actual truth while still posting malicious remarks and comments to deliberately harm prince and his business. does the ORg fall into this category? hmmm. dunno. arguably yes, arguably no. does PFU fall into this category? hmm, dunno. i'm no expert, but from what i know and in my opinion maybe if we were to preface all of our posts with the words "i'm no expert but from what i know and in my opinion" we could mitigate some damages here. just my 2c ps: i hope this is resolved soon, and peaceably.  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
check this website out for legal definitions of public figures, libel and defamation, causes of action and defenses:
http://www.expertlaw.com/...ation.html | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
to the above statement ^^
if that's the case, wouldnt it be individual cases and not the Org? So in other words.. he wants to hold the Org responsible for not editting ppl's posts? | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Raze said: I guess we can all agree.... we love Prince.org more than we love Prince?
PS: sticky part 2's suck ass. since we're able to set the number of posts that are displayed per page, what's the point in starting a new sticky? if you really want to read what it's all about, you have to go through the first thread anyway, so why bother starting a second one?  Love is a strong word. I have never loved Prince or prince.org and still don't. I don't agree with what Prince is doing, but I am not going to get worked up over it. Prince has character flaws like we all do...the difference is that he has the money to facilitate his off the wall ideas. Prince is a grown man. Let him do what he wants with his career, his legacy. If the law isn't on his side, he'll lose the fight. If this fiasco causes him to lose all his fans, so what. [Edited 11/7/07 4:14am] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Flowerz said: to the above statement ^^
if that's the case, wouldnt it be individual cases and not the Org? So in other words.. he wants to hold the Org responsible for not editting ppl's posts? i dunno? the theory may be to go after the website owners that are repsonsible for the 'publication' of these remarks?
personally, (and i only work for attorneys, i am NOT one myself) i see this more as an action that has fallen into the category of prince's war against the distribution of his copyrighted materials. i think his legal advisors have convinced him that taking action against websites like the ORG is the next, natural step for this battle. i don't think the ORG has violated much in the way of copyright when it comes to prince's work. ben is quite savvy in this regard. but the defamation/libel thing is another beast entirely. it has been my experience that most, not all, attorneys will do what they can to increase their law firm's billable hours by expanding on a case, drawing the timetable out beyond the Court's Scheduling Order and basically failing to resolve legal issues quickly. sad, but true. 
edited to add: i am basing my comments on the following comment, posted on the ORG's front page, emphasis added, as well as from the letter previously posted by Lothan on the first thread regarding this topic: prince.org, along with other prominent Prince fansites housequake and princefams, has been sent a "DMCA takedown notice" and at least two "Cease and Desist" letters from attorneys representing Prince. Their demands for removing content and mandating how we would refer to Prince, if obliged, would essentially mean the end of any discussion of Prince-related topics, hosting of images (even of people's symbol tattoos!) and more. We at prince.org will not stand for this, and have joined forces with the other affected sites to tell our side of the story and stand up to what are, in our opinion, bullying tactics designed to silence freedom of speech.
and Reply #880 posted 11/06/07 3:24pm
Lothan I got this off HQ and I believe it was posted of the PFU site? Dear Administrators, Re : EXTREMELY URGENT / YOUR SITE - LIBEL NOTICE As you know, Web Sheriff represents AEG Worldwide, Paisley Park Enterprises / NPG Records and PRINCE in relation to – inter alia – the above. We understand that you (ergo your administrators and moderators personally) control the web-site www.princefansunited.com (hereinafter referred to as the “Libellous Site”). We are writing to advise you that our clients consider the Libellous Site to contain defamatory statements – all under the banner ”PRINCE FANS FIGHT BACK AGAINST ATTACKS” which, in itself, we would also say is defamatory - that both libel PRINCE and, equally, that constitute malicious falsehoods injurious to our clients’ business interests (hereinafter referred to as the “Libellous Statements”) including, but not limited to, the following :- 1. In an extraordinary, but not unfamiliar move, the rock legend Prince is using an army of lawyers to launch attacks on his own fans. 2. It is our belief that these threats are not made in an attempt to enforce valid copyright as Prince alleges in his threats, rather we believe they are attempts to stifle all critical commentary about Prince. 3. It is their hope that Prince will reconsider his position and allow these fansites to continue their existence without constant threats from Prince and his attorneys. Our clients consider the above statements to be both factually incorrect and misleading and, in all of the circumstances, we would ask you to immediately remove the Libellous Site (as containing the Libellous Statements or anything else that could constitute a libel and / or a malicious falsehood in respect of our clients) : this is particularly urgent, as we gather that your site is about to be publicly launched to the world’s media by means of a press-release and, if this were to happen, the scope for damage to our clients’ reputations (and, equally, the scope for compensatory damages to our clients) would be very significantly increased. Should you fail to comply with our clients’ reasonable request (as contained herein) and, therefore, should you continue to publish the Libellous Statements on a joint and several basis, we would kindly ask you to provide us with the names and addresses of your lawyers in Holland, the United States, the United Kingdom, France and Germany, for the purposes of dealing with the appropriate legal actions that shall follow against the officers of your site personally. We shall look forward to hearing from you as soon as possible. Whilst writing, we would caution you against communicating any further correspondence or remarks to third parties that could, in any way, be construed as being libellous of PRINCE or that could otherwise constitute a malicious falsehood, injurious to our clients’ business interests. Similarly, we would remind you that this communication is the copyright of Web Sheriff and, as such, any publication and / or dissemination to third parties would be actionable. Furthermore, Web Sheriff cannot be held liable for the consequences of any such publication and / or dissemination in the event that the same originated from yourselves or parties connected to you. Naturally and notwithstanding the foregoing, all accumulated, worldwide rights and remedies of our clients in this matter remain strictly reserved. Yours sincerely, WEB SHERIFF [Edited 11/7/07 4:17am] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
honestly.. like you said.. that defamation thing is another thing that will be in his favor, but to 'not' talk about him altogether i dont get that.. if we disagree or use constructive criticism on something he does, there's nothing wrong with ppl having their own opinions.. ..but, the nasty threads ppl have been making against him and name calling him.. that's gonna be in his favor.. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Flowerz said: honestly.. like you said.. that defamation thing is another thing that will be in his favor, but to 'not' talk about him altogether i dont get that.. if we disagree or use constructive criticism on something he does, there's nothing wrong with ppl having their own opinions.. ..[b]but, the nasty threads ppl have been making against him and name calling him.. that's gonna be in his favor.. [/b]
yes. and, imo it's kinda heartbreaking to see how fast people have turned on prince. i mean, he ain't perfect - who of us is? and i don't always agree with him, personally. but he's still our hero. the maverick, quirky, creative dude who has inspired us these many years. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
By suggesting Prince has a small penis or maybe a virgina is very defamatory and libous.
These kinds of flipant remarks are highly damaging for Prince's business interests. What if new fans belived he had a small penis, they probably would'nt buy his stuff or attend his concerts. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Janfriend said: If You don't own the fans, the fans own you - Prince
Again, everybody sing along My name is Prince I am a prick My name is Prince With a little dick I did not come to make no fans Just buy my records and I'll take the cash In the beginning, I needed thee but in this decade, you're on your knees Ya'll was tryin' to appreciate when you heard the sound Sound like a letter cold gettin' down I tried to take the high road but I might not last My God I'm worried, ya'll kick my ass My name is Prince I am a prick My name is Prince With a little dick - hurt me (Beat him, beat him, somebody) (beat him, beat him, somebody) Hurt me (beat him, beat him, somebody) (Beat him, beat him, somebody) (beat him, Beat him, somebody) (beat him, beat him, somebody) (beat him, beat him, somebody) (BEAT HIM, BEAT HIM, somebody) My name is Prince and I am on crack When it comes to crack It is not wack I think I'm righteous free from your sins I had 2 wives but that had to end Don't look me in the eye, cuz I just might lie And tell you my shoes are not from hide Without a pistol, without a gun When u kick my ass you'll be havin' fun That's when I gottcha that's when u mine Now cease and desist before you die My name is Prince I am a prick (You can't stop Prince) My name is Prince with the little dick - hurt me (You can't stop Prince) My name is Prince, and I wanna be king Cuz Larry Graham's on top and it's just my dream Pics with me and women and fancy clothes Will make you smile, but it won't save your soul I'm here to tell you that there's a better way Would Jehovah be happy if He came 2 day? I am sayin' I'm better, I'm better than u If u want 2 play my music, u better learn the rules Ouah! My name is Prince! OMG! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
darrenj said: What if new fans belived he had a small penis, they probably would'nt buy his stuff or attend his concerts.  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
XxAxX said: Flowerz said: honestly.. like you said.. that defamation thing is another thing that will be in his favor, but to 'not' talk about him altogether i dont get that.. if we disagree or use constructive criticism on something he does, there's nothing wrong with ppl having their own opinions.. ..[b]but, the nasty threads ppl have been making against him and name calling him.. that's gonna be in his favor.. [/b]
yes. and, imo it's kinda heartbreaking to see how fast people have turned on prince. i mean, he ain't perfect - who of us is? and i don't always agree with him, personally. but he's still our hero. the maverick, quirky, creative dude who has inspired us these many years. and if that is what Prince means... by ppl not talking about him (in a defaming manner) then i can understand that  .. cause all the name calling isnt necessary .. brother needs to clarify what he means.. when he says.. we're not suppose to talk about him lol ... although honestly, even with all the nasty remarks, i cant see how that's gonna ruin his image cause everyone knows him... ive been hearing comments about him for years.. that never influenced my judgment ..i still loved and bought his music .. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
darrenj said: By suggesting Prince has a small penis or maybe a virgina is very defamatory and libous.
These kinds of flipant remarks are highly damaging for Prince's business interests. What if new fans belived he had a small penis, they probably would'nt buy his stuff or attend his concerts. yeah.. now THAT .. right there..is defaming .. i dont know what thread that is.. but the lawyers will have a field day with that.. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Flowerz said: darrenj said: By suggesting Prince has a small penis or maybe a virgina is very defamatory and libous.
These kinds of flipant remarks are highly damaging for Prince's business interests. What if new fans belived he had a small penis, they probably would'nt buy his stuff or attend his concerts. yeah.. now THAT .. right there..is defaming .. i dont know what thread that is.. but the lawyers will have a field day with that.. I can't make my mind up if he is talking about female genitalia or a state in the USA | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Flowerz said: darrenj said: By suggesting Prince has a small penis or maybe a virgina is very defamatory and libous.
These kinds of flipant remarks are highly damaging for Prince's business interests. What if new fans belived he had a small penis, they probably would'nt buy his stuff or attend his concerts. yeah.. now THAT .. right there..is defaming .. i dont know what thread that is.. but the lawyers will have a field day with that.. The small penis thing also undermines him as SEX GOD resulting in less gay and lady fans Makes me wanna cry | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Markland said: Flowerz said: yeah.. now THAT .. right there..is defaming .. i dont know what thread that is.. but the lawyers will have a field day with that.. I can't make my mind up if he is talking about female genitalia or a state in the USA I don't think evan Prince could afford Virginia ! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
darrenj said: Markland said: I can't make my mind up if he is talking about female genitalia or a state in the USA I don't think evan Prince could afford Virginia ! After 21 nights at The O2 who knows! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
darrenj said: Flowerz said: yeah.. now THAT .. right there..is defaming .. i dont know what thread that is.. but the lawyers will have a field day with that.. The small penis thing also undermines him as SEX GOD resulting in less gay and lady fans Makes me wanna cry He might wanna start wearing underwear then. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
SoulAlive said: Janfriend said: If You don't own the fans, the fans own you - Prince
Again, everybody sing along My name is Prince I am a prick My name is Prince With a little dick I did not come to make no fans Just buy my records and I'll take the cash In the beginning, I needed thee but in this decade, you're on your knees Ya'll was tryin' to appreciate when you heard the sound Sound like a letter cold gettin' down I tried to take the high road but I might not last My God I'm worried, ya'll kick my ass My name is Prince I am a prick My name is Prince With a little dick - hurt me (Beat him, beat him, somebody) (beat him, beat him, somebody) Hurt me (beat him, beat him, somebody) (Beat him, beat him, somebody) (beat him, Beat him, somebody) (beat him, beat him, somebody) (beat him, beat him, somebody) (BEAT HIM, BEAT HIM, somebody) My name is Prince and I am on crack When it comes to crack It is not wack I think I'm righteous free from your sins I had 2 wives but that had to end Don't look me in the eye, cuz I just might lie And tell you my shoes are not from hide Without a pistol, without a gun When u kick my ass you'll be havin' fun That's when I gottcha that's when u mine Now cease and desist before you die My name is Prince I am a prick (You can't stop Prince) My name is Prince with the little dick - hurt me (You can't stop Prince) My name is Prince, and I wanna be king Cuz Larry Graham's on top and it's just my dream Pics with me and women and fancy clothes Will make you smile, but it won't save your soul I'm here to tell you that there's a better way Would Jehovah be happy if He came 2 day? I am sayin' I'm better, I'm better than u If u want 2 play my music, u better learn the rules Ouah! My name is Prince! OMG! Moderators ! this post is seriously damaging your cause ! If someone took your song rehashed it with defamatory words then splashed it all over the WWW would'nt you be a little bit pissed off ? [Edited 11/7/07 5:09am] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
utopia7 said:[quote]dawntreader said:[quote]i think Prince is right, i am sorry. as a fan, i am not personally offended by the actions.
i applaude him for the way he used the internet to get his music to us (sometimes for free), and i agree that he should have a say about any image of him published without permission. i also think the abreveation PFU is poorly chosen as it basically says Prince fuck U. that is not the way to get the discussion started. I agree with you Dawn treader as far as the abbreviation ! it's blatent fans if your that passionate about this just close your wallets! have him show up to an empty arena
words from pR Prince : Where's everybody ? 
Jill: well i'll be here  < at the concert make no mistakes
wow according to the latest update MR.NELSON is by no means playing Regarding the PFU acronym..I Dont think it was intentional. Hopefully , it was just one of those uncannily pointed coincidences. I would change the order of the words. Basically, FU, intentional or not, isnt something that you can come back from. Once you've put that sentiment out there, theres no taking it back, and any communication from that point on is gonna be grossly ineffective. In addition, it starts a whole chorus of f-u's and really sullies the whole vibe of things. Basically, thems fightin' words. I do, however, feel that 'he who shall not be named(per his request)' is on some straight up bull and REALLY needs to check himself. A happy face, A Thumpin Bass, For A Lovin' Race. PEACE. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Colour me disappointed. What a way to finish up what was shaping up to be an awesome year for Prince and his fans.
While I don't see myself 'quitting' Prince (insert Brokeback joke here), nor do I imagine I'll be throwing my CDs out when I get home, this entire situation leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm usually pretty laid back and able to separate the man from the music to a certain extent, but how many blows like this can Prince expect the average fan take, and still come back for more? Maybe the answer is in the question - he doesn't want 'average' fans anymore? *confused* | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
