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What will a petition accomplish? Honoring jethrouk's request to have only people who agree with him post to his thread, I am over here wondering...
A petition? Seriously? What do you think this will accomplish, exactly? Prince's web team controls nothing. Assuming they'd like to keep getting paid (if they are getting paid), it's unlikely they'll even bring your plea to his attention. Does Prince care? Highly unlikely. It isn't as if he hasn't pulled the plug on websites in the past without provocation or prior warning. What do you imagine his reaction will be when (if?) he gets wind of your petition? Do you think he'll say, "Oh, gee golly gosh - a dozen of my fans are upset with me. I should really do something nice so they'll like me again." Or is it more likely that he'll just pull the plug yet again, spiting the petition signers and screwing those who still hold some minute hope that there are good things to come? I, for one, don't really appreciate the suggestion that people are all of a mind on this - and that those who disagree should just shut up. I joined the site with absolutely no expectations. (Have we not been down this road before?) I had the $77 to spend, wanted to download the album early, and if I do get a t-shirt - great. (If I get some "legitimized" music or preferred seating at a concert out of it, even better.) With Prince, probably more than with anyone else, "you pays your money, you takes your chances." You don't want to assume the risk? Don't spin the wheel. Mixing the metaphor, being a Prince fan is like playing the lottery, with the exception that he's actually paid out pretty damn well over the years. We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. | |
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Genesia said: Honoring jethrouk's request to have only people who agree with him post to his thread, .
thats not what i meant, I meant I didn't want it to turn into an childish argument, like everything else seems to. I just wanted it for people to sign at the bottom for the petition. Genesia said: I, for one, don't really appreciate the suggestion that people are all of a mind on this - and that those who disagree should just shut up. .
nobody told you to shut up, there is about 20 different threads on said topic that you can clearly voice your openion on. my only reason for saying that i would like the thread to stick to people who are angry with lotusflow3r - is to a) stop the thread getting closed with argument's (which is what happened with my last thread). arguments are all well and good, but people on here just seem to get personal and I did not want that to happen again, and b) if the thread is an entire group of people who are all unhappy with lotusflow3r, it is easier then to draw the attention of 'relevant people' to that thread. [Edited 6/24/09 13:18pm] Genesia said: (Have we not been down this road before?) .
I haven't (and others probably haven't either) so unlike you they don't have the benefit of heinsight. in that light then, you must surely understand why others had higher expectations than you did. and are now dissapointed that these were not met. [Edited 6/24/09 13:23pm] "Sisters and brothers in the purple underground, find peace of mind in the pop sound!" | |
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If you're so happy and content with being screwed, what difference does it matter to you? If their petition causes Prince to get off his ass and do something with the site, you'll benefit, if it doesn't, oh well!
Just because you don't mind getting screwed by Prince because that's just the way it goes, doesn't mean everybody has to enjoy it! It's because he's been allowed to screw over people for so long without any repercussions, that he continues to do so! Somebody has to take a stand, damn!!! I applaud their effort!  [Edited 6/24/09 13:24pm] I knew from the start that I loved you with all my heart. | |
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jethrouk can also send a copy of the petition to the Better Business Bureau as well!! I am sure that they will open up his case file again!!!!!  | |
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HatrinaHaterwitz said: If you're so happy and content with being screwed, what difference does it matter to you? If their petition causes Prince to get off his ass and do something with the site, you'll benefit, if it doesn't, oh well!
Just because you don't mind getting screwed by Prince because that's just the way it goes, doesn't mean everybody has to enjoy it! It's because he's been allowed to screw over people for so long without any repercussions, that he continues to do so! Somebody has to take a stand, damn!!! I applaud their effort!
[Edited 6/24/09 13:24pm] My point is that nothing any of us say is going to make Prince "get off his ass and do something with the site." It's a lot more likely that what he'll say is, "Ingrates! Who needs 'em?" - and just shut the whole thing down. And then where are you and your former $77? What repercussions do you suppose he's in for? There's not a darn thing you can do to him. You gave him your money willingly - without a firm promise of anything. Take a stand? How? By posting some toothless petition? How exactly, is that going to stop him from screwing you over - if, in fact, that is his intent? This whole thing is so childish and silly. You took a chance. You may or may not have lost (you really don't know yet). But I think there's a better than even chance that, by doing this, everyone is going to end up a loser. Except Prince, of course. We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. | |
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for him NOT to start a petition would most certainly accomplish nothing.
i'm guessing that "nothing" is not on the list of things jethrouk wants to accomplish by his doing something as opposed to his not doing anything. just a guess.  | |
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Genesia said: My point is that nothing any of us say is going to make Prince "get off his ass and do something with the site." It's a lot more likely that what he'll say is, "Ingrates! Who needs 'em?" - and just shut the whole thing down. And then where are you and your former $77? What repercussions do you suppose he's in for? There's not a darn thing you can do to him. You gave him your money willingly - without a firm promise of anything. Take a stand? How? By posting some toothless petition? How exactly, is that going to stop him from screwing you over - if, in fact, that is his intent? This whole thing is so childish and silly. You took a chance. You may or may not have lost (you really don't know yet). But I think there's a better than even chance that, by doing this, everyone is going to end up a loser. Except Prince, of course. i guess that based on your opinion, it's a good thing you're not wasting your time with starting a petition and that someone else is wasting their time instead, eh? | |
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Anxiety said: Genesia said: My point is that nothing any of us say is going to make Prince "get off his ass and do something with the site." It's a lot more likely that what he'll say is, "Ingrates! Who needs 'em?" - and just shut the whole thing down. And then where are you and your former $77? What repercussions do you suppose he's in for? There's not a darn thing you can do to him. You gave him your money willingly - without a firm promise of anything. Take a stand? How? By posting some toothless petition? How exactly, is that going to stop him from screwing you over - if, in fact, that is his intent? This whole thing is so childish and silly. You took a chance. You may or may not have lost (you really don't know yet). But I think there's a better than even chance that, by doing this, everyone is going to end up a loser. Except Prince, of course. i guess that based on your opinion, it's a good thing you're not wasting your time with starting a petition and that someone else is wasting their time instead, eh? Definitely. I simply wanted to be on the record as disagreeing. And just to be clear, I am well aware that my position won't accomplish anything, either. I happen to be of the mind that people need to learn to accept that which they are powerless to change. Prince and his whims definitely fall into that category.  We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. | |
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Genesia said: Anxiety said: i guess that based on your opinion, it's a good thing you're not wasting your time with starting a petition and that someone else is wasting their time instead, eh? Definitely. I simply wanted to be on the record as disagreeing. And just to be clear, I am well aware that my position won't accomplish anything, either. I happen to be of the mind that people need to learn to accept that which they are powerless to change. Prince and his whims definitely fall into that category. so you're saying people should take a more disempowered and nihilistic approach to life? that sounds healthy. | |
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Anxiety said: Genesia said: Definitely. I simply wanted to be on the record as disagreeing. And just to be clear, I am well aware that my position won't accomplish anything, either. I happen to be of the mind that people need to learn to accept that which they are powerless to change. Prince and his whims definitely fall into that category. so you're saying people should take a more disempowered and nihilistic approach to life? that sounds healthy. No, I'm not. I'm saying that the truly empowered choice in this case would have been not to join lotusflow3r in the first place. We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. | |
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Genesia said: Anxiety said: so you're saying people should take a more disempowered and nihilistic approach to life? that sounds healthy. No, I'm not. I'm saying that the truly empowered choice in this case would have been not to join lotusflow3r in the first place. and that was clearly a popular choice, based on the front page poll. i understand when fans want to express unconditional devotion and how that can play out as offering opinions framed through the most prince-friendly reality possible, but the fact is, this guy is voicing his dissatisfaction the best way he knows how. he's not just coming on here and whining about what he doesn't like. i find that respectable. will it yield some kind of glorious response? i dunno. probably not. but at least he's doing something, and he's doing it in a tone i find to be very respectful and professional. i understand he's being critical of prince and you don't like that, but i've seen much worse arrows flung at prince in the past. i have a feeling mr. nelson will survive this one.  | |
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Anxiety said: Genesia said: No, I'm not. I'm saying that the truly empowered choice in this case would have been not to join lotusflow3r in the first place. and that was clearly a popular choice, based on the front page poll. i understand when fans want to express unconditional devotion and how that can play out as offering opinions framed through the most prince-friendly reality possible, but the fact is, this guy is voicing his dissatisfaction the best way he knows how. he's not just coming on here and whining about what he doesn't like. i find that respectable. will it yield some kind of glorious response? i dunno. probably not. but at least he's doing something, and he's doing it in a tone i find to be very respectful and professional. i understand he's being critical of prince and you don't like that, but i've seen much worse arrows flung at prince in the past. i have a feeling mr. nelson will survive this one. C'mon, Anx - it is not like you to miss the point purposefully. 1. It doesn't have anything to do with what I like or don't like. 2. I am not "unconditionally devoted" to Prince - whatever that means. If people want to criticize him, that's fine with me. I am not his public defender or pro bono PR firm. 3. I am not worried about Prince's ability to survive. He's had worse. My sole point (again) is that I think a petition is, at best, ineffective. And that it may, at worst, result in the retaliatory scuttling of lotusflow3r. In which case, everyone who paid their $77 - not just jethrouk - loses. [Edited 6/24/09 14:24pm] We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. | |
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Genesia said: HatrinaHaterwitz said: If you're so happy and content with being screwed, what difference does it matter to you? If their petition causes Prince to get off his ass and do something with the site, you'll benefit, if it doesn't, oh well!
Just because you don't mind getting screwed by Prince because that's just the way it goes, doesn't mean everybody has to enjoy it! It's because he's been allowed to screw over people for so long without any repercussions, that he continues to do so! Somebody has to take a stand, damn!!! I applaud their effort!
[Edited 6/24/09 13:24pm] My point is that nothing any of us say is going to make Prince "get off his ass and do something with the site." It's a lot more likely that what he'll say is, "Ingrates! Who needs 'em?" - and just shut the whole thing down. And then where are you and your former $77? What repercussions do you suppose he's in for? There's not a darn thing you can do to him. You gave him your money willingly - without a firm promise of anything. Take a stand? How? By posting some toothless petition? How exactly, is that going to stop him from screwing you over - if, in fact, that is his intent? This whole thing is so childish and silly. You took a chance. You may or may not have lost (you really don't know yet). But I think there's a better than even chance that, by doing this, everyone is going to end up a loser. Except Prince, of course. I think there is a chance that Prince will realise that he can pull this stunt once but if he tries it again there will be a lot of folks who will (hopefully) think twice before giving him any money again. It is in his best interests to have happy and satisfied fans and it is not as if we are being unreasonable. Of course if you are afraid that the petitioners who are unhappy will have a negative affect on your experience you could always start a counter petition telling Prince that you are satisfied with the contents of Lotusflow3r.com. | |
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rialb said: Genesia said: My point is that nothing any of us say is going to make Prince "get off his ass and do something with the site." It's a lot more likely that what he'll say is, "Ingrates! Who needs 'em?" - and just shut the whole thing down. And then where are you and your former $77? What repercussions do you suppose he's in for? There's not a darn thing you can do to him. You gave him your money willingly - without a firm promise of anything. Take a stand? How? By posting some toothless petition? How exactly, is that going to stop him from screwing you over - if, in fact, that is his intent? This whole thing is so childish and silly. You took a chance. You may or may not have lost (you really don't know yet). But I think there's a better than even chance that, by doing this, everyone is going to end up a loser. Except Prince, of course. I think there is a chance that Prince will realise that he can pull this stunt once but if he tries it again there will be a lot of folks who will (hopefully) think twice before giving him any money again. It is in his best interests to have happy and satisfied fans and it is not as if we are being unreasonable. Of course if you are afraid that the petitioners who are unhappy will have a negative affect on your experience you could always start a counter petition telling Prince that you are satisfied with the contents of Lotusflow3r.com. What do you mean, "he can pull this stunt once?" He's pulled it over and over already! He pulled the plug on the NPGMC - and no one could do anything about it. He charged over $300/ticket for shows in LA and Vegas - and people paid it. People flocked to his shows in London - after which he pulled 3121.com and sued a fansite and a dancing youtube baby.
In spite of all that, when he put out a literary vanity project about the London gigs - it made the bestseller list. His latest album debuted at #2 on the charts. A whole mess of people ponied up $77 to join a website that promised nothing. With results like that, Prince is destined to die fat and happy. (Okay, not fat. Make that rich and happy.) We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. | |
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Genesia said: My sole point (again) is that I think a petition is, at best, ineffective. And that it may, at worst, result in the retaliatory scuttling of lotusflow3r. In which case, everyone who paid their $77 - not just jethrouk - loses. well, if i buy a lottery ticket, chances are i'll get nothing. which is fine. if i don't buy a lottery ticket, i'm guaranteed to get nothing. what's it to anyone if jethrouk buys a lottery ticket, if he does so with the knowledge that it doesn't guarantee a jackpot? and i know what you're thinking: we could apply this same argument to the decision to join the site in the first place; however, there WERE specific promises made that have not been honored, and there were numerous carrots dangled which of course turned out to be mirrors and smoke. so, even if there was the usual "no expectations" clause, there were certainly things implied to get the fans salivating. different sitch altogether than the risk taken by creating a petition. | |
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Anxiety said: Genesia said: My sole point (again) is that I think a petition is, at best, ineffective. And that it may, at worst, result in the retaliatory scuttling of lotusflow3r. In which case, everyone who paid their $77 - not just jethrouk - loses. well, if i buy a lottery ticket, chances are i'll get nothing. which is fine. if i don't buy a lottery ticket, i'm guaranteed to get nothing. what's it to anyone if jethrouk buys a lottery ticket, if he does so with the knowledge that it doesn't guarantee a jackpot? and i know what you're thinking: we could apply this same argument to the decision to join the site in the first place; however, there WERE specific promises made that have not been honored, and there were numerous carrots dangled which of course turned out to be mirrors and smoke. so, even if there was the usual "no expectations" clause, there were certainly things implied to get the fans salivating. different sitch altogether than the risk taken by creating a petition. Except that in joining the site, all any individual risked was his or her own $77. The petitioners are gambling with everyone's money - whether they agreed or not. We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. | |
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so its best in life to accept-never to challenge, to just take it cuz you CAN'T/WON'T win? Whats the point in doing anything at all then.....
For the record-speaking for me-the site is a con. Nothing promised.fair enough. Many things intimated though. And-what was the point calling it a membership if as it now seems-$77 admission seems more suited than 'membership'. What are we 'members' of..... Yeah he can shut it down tomorrow. And we should not act/shut up because he can.....? Man your a politicians dream.....never question-just accept. Im glad you aint on my side..... I personally would actually not give a rats ass if he does shut it down-especially for the reason you give-cuz we dare to dissagree.....I wrote the $77 off already. It aint about how much-its about what the hell was the point in all of this cuz as it stands-a lot of bullshit and hype FROM PRINCE'S CAMP got us to join. What it actually is-aint a thing on 'their' hype. we need clarity you seem happy with ''we don't wanna spoil the suprise so we won't tell you if and what we will or won't add to the site''..... fair play to you. S-H-E-E-P baaaaah | |
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Genesia said: HatrinaHaterwitz said: If you're so happy and content with being screwed, what difference does it matter to you? If their petition causes Prince to get off his ass and do something with the site, you'll benefit, if it doesn't, oh well!
Just because you don't mind getting screwed by Prince because that's just the way it goes, doesn't mean everybody has to enjoy it! It's because he's been allowed to screw over people for so long without any repercussions, that he continues to do so! Somebody has to take a stand, damn!!! I applaud their effort!
[Edited 6/24/09 13:24pm] My point is that nothing any of us say is going to make Prince "get off his ass and do something with the site." It's a lot more likely that what he'll say is, "Ingrates! Who needs 'em?" - and just shut the whole thing down. And then where are you and your former $77? What repercussions do you suppose he's in for? There's not a darn thing you can do to him. You gave him your money willingly - without a firm promise of anything. Take a stand? How? By posting some toothless petition? How exactly, is that going to stop him from screwing you over - if, in fact, that is his intent? This whole thing is so childish and silly. You took a chance. You may or may not have lost (you really don't know yet). But I think there's a better than even chance that, by doing this, everyone is going to end up a loser. Except Prince, of course. I didn't join the site because my own personal protest is to not give his ass anymore of my money until he gets his shit together! Will it make any difference to him, probably not but it feels damn good knowing that he didn't get the opportunity to screw me over with that Lostusflow3r shit! Now if folks would do that by the thousands, he'd get the damn message that he can't keep doing that shit to people but just handing over your money and saying oh well when he screws you over isn't going to accomplish a damn thing! [Edited 6/24/09 15:05pm] I knew from the start that I loved you with all my heart. | |
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Genesia said: HatrinaHaterwitz said: If you're so happy and content with being screwed, what difference does it matter to you? If their petition causes Prince to get off his ass and do something with the site, you'll benefit, if it doesn't, oh well!
Just because you don't mind getting screwed by Prince because that's just the way it goes, doesn't mean everybody has to enjoy it! It's because he's been allowed to screw over people for so long without any repercussions, that he continues to do so! Somebody has to take a stand, damn!!! I applaud their effort!
[Edited 6/24/09 13:24pm] My point is that nothing any of us say is going to make Prince "get off his ass and do something with the site." It's a lot more likely that what he'll say is, "Ingrates! Who needs 'em?" - and just shut the whole thing down. And then where are you and your former $77? What repercussions do you suppose he's in for? There's not a darn thing you can do to him. You gave him your money willingly - without a firm promise of anything. Take a stand? How? By posting some toothless petition? How exactly, is that going to stop him from screwing you over - if, in fact, that is his intent? This whole thing is so childish and silly. You took a chance. You may or may not have lost (you really don't know yet). But I think there's a better than even chance that, by doing this, everyone is going to end up a loser. Except Prince, of course. what ever happens, my petition is not going to make things worse. people have paid for a year he cannot take lotusflow3r of the air without refunding people that is actually a crime. "Sisters and brothers in the purple underground, find peace of mind in the pop sound!" | |
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Genesia said: Except that in joining the site, all any individual risked was his or her own $77. The petitioners are gambling with everyone's money - whether they agreed or not. okay, that's an interesting response. how so? | |
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HatrinaHaterwitz said: Genesia said: My point is that nothing any of us say is going to make Prince "get off his ass and do something with the site." It's a lot more likely that what he'll say is, "Ingrates! Who needs 'em?" - and just shut the whole thing down. And then where are you and your former $77? What repercussions do you suppose he's in for? There's not a darn thing you can do to him. You gave him your money willingly - without a firm promise of anything. Take a stand? How? By posting some toothless petition? How exactly, is that going to stop him from screwing you over - if, in fact, that is his intent? This whole thing is so childish and silly. You took a chance. You may or may not have lost (you really don't know yet). But I think there's a better than even chance that, by doing this, everyone is going to end up a loser. Except Prince, of course. I didn't join the site because my own personal protest is to not give his ass anymore of my money until he gets his shit together! Will it make any difference to him, probably not but it feels damn good knowing that he didn't get the opportunity to screw me over with that Lostusflow3r shit! Now if folks would do that by the thousands, he'd get the damn message that he can't keep doing that shit to people but just handing over your money and saying oh well when he screws you over isn't going to accomplish a damn! You didn't join. Great. You made the right choice - for you. So what are you doing here? I mean...what's your point? We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. | |
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Anxiety said: Genesia said: Except that in joining the site, all any individual risked was his or her own $77. The petitioners are gambling with everyone's money - whether they agreed or not. okay, that's an interesting response. how so? Because when individuals plunked down $77 each on lotusflow3r - win or lose - it was their $77. Not someone else's. If Prince, as a result of the petition, decides to pick up his ball and go home, everyone who paid $77 to join the site is SOL. Not just the petitioners. Everyone. We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. | |
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sorry-what planet are you on.....he popped the ball and fucked off home about a month ago  | |
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Genesia said: Anxiety said: okay, that's an interesting response. how so? Because when individuals plunked down $77 each on lotusflow3r - win or lose - it was their $77. Not someone else's. If Prince, as a result of the petition, decides to pick up his ball and go home, everyone who paid $77 to join the site is SOL. Not just the petitioners. Everyone. but part of what the petition is addressing is the supposition that prince has ALREADY picked up his ball and gone home, and my understanding is that the petition is trying to tell him to get his butt back here cuz he's not done yet. | |
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Genesia said: HatrinaHaterwitz said: I didn't join the site because my own personal protest is to not give his ass anymore of my money until he gets his shit together! Will it make any difference to him, probably not but it feels damn good knowing that he didn't get the opportunity to screw me over with that Lostusflow3r shit! Now if folks would do that by the thousands, he'd get the damn message that he can't keep doing that shit to people but just handing over your money and saying oh well when he screws you over isn't going to accomplish a damn! You didn't join. Great. You made the right choice - for you. So what are you doing here? I mean...what's your point? My point is it's high damn time people stop taking his bullshit ass business practices! Whether that's by signing a petition or stop giving him money altogether but to do absolutely nothing but say "we're powerless to change anything" is ridiculous! I knew from the start that I loved you with all my heart. | |
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polkadotbliss said: sorry-what planet are you on.....he popped the ball and fucked off home about a month ago
How do you know? Are you suggesting that you can see alllll the way ahead to March 2010? And that you know - without a doubt - that nothing will happen on lotusflow3r between now and then? Yeah. Sure. We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. | |
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the last time prince fans wasted their time making some kind of big, organized statement of complaint against prince, nothing valuable happened. well, except that it got covered in the associated press. and ben got interviewed by the new york times. and prince wrote a song about it. and -
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Anxiety said: Genesia said: Because when individuals plunked down $77 each on lotusflow3r - win or lose - it was their $77. Not someone else's. If Prince, as a result of the petition, decides to pick up his ball and go home, everyone who paid $77 to join the site is SOL. Not just the petitioners. Everyone. but part of what the petition is addressing is the supposition that prince has ALREADY picked up his ball and gone home, and my understanding is that the petition is trying to tell him to get his butt back here cuz he's not done yet. On what is that supposition based? What - we got a bunch of clairvoyants up in here? A bunch of folks with enough insight to predict what'll happen between now and March 2010 - when they didn't have a friggin' clue what was going to happen between March 2009 and now? That is rich. Not as rich as Prince - but rich nonetheless. We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. | |
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HatrinaHaterwitz said: Genesia said: You didn't join. Great. You made the right choice - for you. So what are you doing here? I mean...what's your point? My point is it's high damn time people stop taking his bullshit ass business practices! Whether that's by signing a petition or stop giving him money altogether but to do absolutely nothing but say "we're powerless to change anything" is ridiculous! We are absolutely powerless to change anything on the back end. We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. | |
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Genesia said: Anxiety said: but part of what the petition is addressing is the supposition that prince has ALREADY picked up his ball and gone home, and my understanding is that the petition is trying to tell him to get his butt back here cuz he's not done yet. On what is that supposition based? What - we got a bunch of clairvoyants up in here? A bunch of folks with enough insight to predict what'll happen between now and March 2010 - when they didn't have a friggin' clue what was going to happen between March 2009 and now? That is rich. Not as rich as Prince - but rich nonetheless. is it REALLY that rich? crickets chirpin on that site for months now, no publicity for the album since, what, the leno appearance where he didn't even do a song from the new album, a great sucking silence from princeland ever since the hip replacement rumors started hitting the mainstream media...is it REALLY so rich for folks to assume he's stuck a fork in LF.com and moved on? with HIS reputation for dropping projects like hot potatos just as soon as he gets bored with them? not so rich. not really. but like i've said before, i seriously and honestly think it's incredibly sweet that you have such an unlimited supply of benefit of the doubt to spare for the man. | |
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