KingBad is our Joker.

The first reviews seem to be mostly positive.

*preveviusly I had said overwhelmingly but nehpgative ones are bubbling up

[Edited 8/31/19 11:00am]

I'm quite liking the look of it.

EmmaMcG said:

It's getting some really great reviews. Obviously there are one or two reviewers that like to go against popular opinion because it makes them feel important or whatever but the general consensus is that it's one of the best movies of the year and that Juaquin Phoenix is a genuine contender for the Oscars. Now, ultimately, the only review I care about is my own so I'll take all these great reviews with a pinch of salt but it's good to hear that it's been well received. The movie itself seems like a massive risk (R rated character study of a maniac), especially for a company as inept as Warner Bros, but credit where it's due. They've tried something different and it looks like they might have pulled it off.

Yeah, that is feel to the movie which I don't like. Making it to win Oscars, don't want the drama in my DC movies.

kpowers said:

EmmaMcG said:

It's getting some really great reviews. Obviously there are one or two reviewers that like to go against popular opinion because it makes them feel important or whatever but the general consensus is that it's one of the best movies of the year and that Juaquin Phoenix is a genuine contender for the Oscars. Now, ultimately, the only review I care about is my own so I'll take all these great reviews with a pinch of salt but it's good to hear that it's been well received. The movie itself seems like a massive risk (R rated character study of a maniac), especially for a company as inept as Warner Bros, but credit where it's due. They've tried something different and it looks like they might have pulled it off.

Yeah, that is feel to the movie which I don't like. Making it to win Oscars, don't want the drama in my DC movies.

I disagree. I think DC's characters are perfect for more serious and dramatic movies (I'm still waiting for a proper horror Batman movie through teh eyes of his rogues gallery) aimed at grownups.
If i want cookie curtter cartoony kid friendly superhero movies I'll watch any Marvel movie (except for Deadpool of course).
Even the batman animated series was more serious then the MArvel superhero movies, so WB's idea of trying to copy that Marvel formula just doesn't work in my opinoin for DC (see the butchered Justice League movie).
Marvel is great at making those kind of movies and most of them are great and fit teh Marvel characters. From DC I expect movies for grown ups so this Joker movie is right for me.
Putting Batman or his rogues gallery in kid friendly/Marvel like movies just doesn't work for me (see the movies from the 90's and Justicce League).
But maybe the Joker movie it's crap we'll see, I'll hold my judgement until I've seen it. It couldn't be worse that Justice LEague, Suicide Squad or the last copuple of really bad Marvel movies (Infinity War, Captain Marvel and Endgame).
I really don;t think they were aiming for Oscars but just something different or Elseworlds like.

JorisE73 said:

kpowers said:

Yeah, that is feel to the movie which I don't like. Making it to win Oscars, don't want the drama in my DC movies.

I disagree. I think DC's characters are perfect for more serious and dramatic movies (I'm still waiting for a proper horror Batman movie through teh eyes of his rogues gallery) aimed at grownups.
If i want cookie curtter cartoony kid friendly superhero movies I'll watch any Marvel movie (except for Deadpool of course).
Even the batman animated series was more serious then the MArvel superhero movies, so WB's idea of trying to copy that Marvel formula just doesn't work in my opinoin for DC (see the butchered Justice League movie).
Marvel is great at making those kind of movies and most of them are great and fit teh Marvel characters. From DC I expect movies for grown ups so this Joker movie is right for me.
Putting Batman or his rogues gallery in kid friendly/Marvel like movies just doesn't work for me (see the movies from the 90's and Justicce League).
But maybe the Joker movie it's crap we'll see, I'll hold my judgement until I've seen it. It couldn't be worse that Justice LEague, Suicide Squad or the last copuple of really bad Marvel movies (Infinity War, Captain Marvel and Endgame).
I really don;t think they were aiming for Oscars but just something different or Elseworlds like.

Kinda agree with some of what you say but this movie feel like too much drama, and even more drama with the side of Drama

JorisE73 said:

EmmaMcG said:

JorisE73 said:

I disagree. I think DC's characters are perfect for more serious and dramatic movies (I'm still waiting for a proper horror Batman movie through teh eyes of his rogues gallery) aimed at grownups.
If i want cookie curtter cartoony kid friendly superhero movies I'll watch any Marvel movie (except for Deadpool of course).
Even the batman animated series was more serious then the MArvel superhero movies, so WB's idea of trying to copy that Marvel formula just doesn't work in my opinoin for DC (see the butchered Justice League movie).
Marvel is great at making those kind of movies and most of them are great and fit teh Marvel characters. From DC I expect movies for grown ups so this Joker movie is right for me.
Putting Batman or his rogues gallery in kid friendly/Marvel like movies just doesn't work for me (see the movies from the 90's and Justicce League).
But maybe the Joker movie it's crap we'll see, I'll hold my judgement until I've seen it. It couldn't be worse that Justice LEague, Suicide Squad or the last copuple of really bad Marvel movies (Infinity War, Captain Marvel and Endgame).
I really don;t think they were aiming for Oscars but just something different or Elseworlds like.

Those last couple of "really bad Marvel movies" you mentioned were all critically acclaimed lol. But I agree that WB and DC shouldn't try to take on Marvel at their own game. Every time they try, they fail. Miserably. The Joker seems like a more serious movie and it's getting better reviews because of that. I hope this is a new dawn for DC movies in general. I've been keeping my fingers crossed for a Batman movie where instead of big explosions and ridiculous stunts, we get to see more of his detective skills on display. Rather than long, drawn out fight scenes, just have him snap his enemies in two. Batman is a violent character but he's seldom depicted that way on screen. Ben Affleck's version was as close as it's gotten.

A lot of bad movies are criticlly acclaimed, it doesn't mean anything, that's like using award shows as some form of meter of good movies. The Empire Strikes Back was panned to hell when it was released, and that is by far the best Star Wars movie made. So my opinion is as valid as any critics.
I really hope WB has learned from there dumb way of handling Justice League and Suicide Squad, but I think the Joker movie is just an exception and they won't ever go this route with any of the DCEU movies, if they did they would have stayed with Snyder and just make R-rated superhero movies. WB wants billions and this movie is not the the way to make that.

[Edited 9/3/19 3:11am]

We love clowns.

Judging from the trailers the movie looks beautiful and I have no doubt this movie will blow any Marvel garbage away easily... But that's just like comparing "Fight Club" to "Rocky"...

Neversin.

Neversin said:

I'm not thrilled by this trailer. I do see the Joker killing the host of the show on live TV. I might see it-if I'm bored and want to see something new. Not a must see for me.

I'm still waiting for a twisted Riddler / Batman film

JorisE73 said:

kpowers said:

Yeah, that is feel to the movie which I don't like. Making it to win Oscars, don't want the drama in my DC movies.

I disagree. I think DC's characters are perfect for more serious and dramatic movies (I'm still waiting for a proper horror Batman movie through teh eyes of his rogues gallery) aimed at grownups.
If i want cookie curtter cartoony kid friendly superhero movies I'll watch any Marvel movie (except for Deadpool of course).
Even the batman animated series was more serious then the MArvel superhero movies, so WB's idea of trying to copy that Marvel formula just doesn't work in my opinoin for DC (see the butchered Justice League movie).
Marvel is great at making those kind of movies and most of them are great and fit teh Marvel characters. From DC I expect movies for grown ups so this Joker movie is right for me.
Putting Batman or his rogues gallery in kid friendly/Marvel like movies just doesn't work for me (see the movies from the 90's and Justicce League).
But maybe the Joker movie it's crap we'll see, I'll hold my judgement until I've seen it. It couldn't be worse that Justice LEague, Suicide Squad or the last copuple of really bad Marvel movies (Infinity War, Captain Marvel and Endgame).
I really don;t think they were aiming for Oscars but just something different or Elseworlds like.

Get ready to rethink what's possible in comic book movies. Again. In a little over a month, Warner Bros. releases the latest DC Comics adaptation Joker — an origin story of Batman's arch nemesis — and if you thought The Dark Knight and Logan pushed the boundaries of adult storytelling and Oscar quality for these types of films, Joker is about to up the ante.

First, let's address the financial outlook. Budgeted at $55 million and with a relatively modest marketing budget, Joker only needs roughly $190+/- million in worldwide receipts to reach black ink. And it won't have any trouble racing far past that figure.

This is a film about one of our most popular pop culture villains, with a high-profile lead performer and trailers eliciting tremendous buzz. Early talk of Joaquin Phoenix as a potential Best Actor contender at the Oscars is sure to increase Joker's must-see status. And the October 4th release date means there are no notable wide releases opening against it, nor any holdovers that will still be recent enough to act as contenders for the same target audiences to any significant degree.

https://www.forbes.com/si...7255eb29c0

EmmaMcG said:

kpowers said:

kpowers said:

EmmaMcG said:

Rocky is MUCH better than Fight Club.

I thought we weren't supposed to talk about fight club

Have to agree with neversin taht comparing Joker to Marvel movies is like apples and oranges. I prefer FIght CLub to Rocky tho but that's because its a movie for my generation of men.

JorisE73 said:

Yes it looks very interesting as a character study and an homage to the 70s, the tone and production remind me of the Dark Knight films from a decade ago. Since then interestingly CB movies mostly been gum-chugging knuckle-dragger affairs, but with a standing ovation at VFF and the way it's triggering edgelords and soyboys alike it seems like it will be a good movie.

Henry Cavill Supports DC and Joker Matt McGloin Posted: 09/02/2019 While we wait for information about the future of Superman, Henry Cavill offers his support for the new Joker movie and can't wait to see it. DC Entertainment Chief Creative Officer and superstar comic book artist Jim Lee took to Instagram to offer his thoughts on Joker:

Director Todd Phillip’s @jokermovie is intense, raw and soulful.

He’s talked about how his take on the Joker is not beholden to the character’s comic book roots. That said, there’s absolutely nothing in this film incongruous with our understanding of who the Joker is. If anything, Joaquin Phoenix’s mesmerizing and unsettling turn as the Joker gives us a deep and fully realized look into one of our favorite villains, and I’m sure elements will be embraced going forward in our ongoing, ever evolving mythology. That’s what powerful, compelling stories do. And without a doubt—long time DC fans will be spending a lot of time unpacking the many story revelations and questions this harrowing cautionary tale raises. #joker#thejoker #dccomics Henry Cavill posted in the comments: Can't wait to see this!! The Joaquin Phoenix Joker movie recently debuted at the Venice Film Festival, which saw the audience give it a huge standing ovation. Early reviews have already hit the net offering more of the same positive reaction as the flick is at a current 88% at Rotten Tomatoes with 34 reviews accounted for.

[Edited 9/4/19 5:46am]

EmmaMcG said:

JorisE73 said:

Have to agree with neversin taht comparing Joker to Marvel movies is like apples and oranges. I prefer FIght CLub to Rocky tho but that's because its a movie for my generation of men.

Hey, Fight Club is a movie for my generation of women too. As are all movies with Brad Pitt!!

I mean it speaks to me and my generation of men more than Rocky ever will (and Brad Pitt also).
But I know what you mean

JorisE73 said:

EmmaMcG said:

JorisE73 said: Those last couple of "really bad Marvel movies" you mentioned were all critically acclaimed lol. But I agree that WB and DC shouldn't try to take on Marvel at their own game. Every time they try, they fail. Miserably. The Joker seems like a more serious movie and it's getting better reviews because of that. I hope this is a new dawn for DC movies in general. I've been keeping my fingers crossed for a Batman movie where instead of big explosions and ridiculous stunts, we get to see more of his detective skills on display. Rather than long, drawn out fight scenes, just have him snap his enemies in two. Batman is a violent character but he's seldom depicted that way on screen. Ben Affleck's version was as close as it's gotten.

A lot of bad movies are criticlly acclaimed, it doesn't mean anything, that's like using award shows as some form of meter of good movies. The Empire Strikes Back was panned to hell when it was released, and that is by far the best Star Wars movie made. So my opinion is as valid as any critics.
I really hope WB has learned from there dumb way of handling Justice League and Suicide Squad, but I think the Joker movie is just an exception and they won't ever go this route with any of the DCEU movies, if they did they would have stayed with Snyder and just make R-rated superhero movies. WB wants billions and this movie is not the the way to make that.

[Edited 9/3/19 3:11am]

"Panned to hell" is the reception that Suicide Squad got. The Empire Strikes Back received mixed reviews when it was released.

kpowers said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

A new movie based on Batman's most iconic villain, "Joker," is coming to theaters this October. Unlike most versions of the Joker, this one has a first and last name, Arthur Fleck.

Joaquin Phoenix will play the latest version of Batman's nemesis, and he has some big clown shoes to fill.

Warner Bros. released the first teaser trailer for its standalone "Joker" movie at CinemaCon, and it's already looking like a must-see.
Joaquin Phoenix will play the latest incarnation of the Gotham clown.

[Edited 8/29/19 10:38am]

Batman 1989 the Joker was Jack Napier (which has a nice ring to it) and Gotham Joker was Jeremiah Valeska. Arthur is Aquaman's first name

Everybody mentions the name Napier in connection with the Burton Batman movie but I could swear that the name Napier was mentioned in the comicbooks way before it was mentioned in the movie.

Am I right? I think it was decades before the Burton movie even came out.

Not sure if the first name (Jack) was the same but I´m pretty sure that the Joker´s real last name has always been Napier in the comics.

sexton said:

JorisE73 said:

A lot of bad movies are criticlly acclaimed, it doesn't mean anything, that's like using award shows as some form of meter of good movies. The Empire Strikes Back was panned to hell when it was released, and that is by far the best Star Wars movie made. So my opinion is as valid as any critics.
I really hope WB has learned from there dumb way of handling Justice League and Suicide Squad, but I think the Joker movie is just an exception and they won't ever go this route with any of the DCEU movies, if they did they would have stayed with Snyder and just make R-rated superhero movies. WB wants billions and this movie is not the the way to make that.

[Edited 9/3/19 3:11am]

"Panned to hell" is the reception that Suicide Squad got. The Empire Strikes Back received mixed reviews when it was released.

Oh ok, in The NEtherlands (where I'm from) it was received as a disaster and killed by critics and only gathered a fandom among children and later most Star Wars fans.

What's The Joker's Real Name? His New Movie Has the Answer

By Autumn Noel Kelly On 9/17/18 at 11:45 AM EDT

.

There's a second Joker in town. The untitled film's director, Todd Phillips (The Hangover), shared a photo of lead actor Joaquin Phoenix as Arthur Fleck. That's the Joker's real name in this film, an original civilian name outside the DC Comics canon. The Joker's obscure origins are part of his whole schtick in the comics, so it's no surprise that the name "Arthur" seems random.Jack Napier is the most common (but rarely referenced) civilian name for The Joker, used in Batman: White Knight, Tim Burton's Batman from 1989 and an episode of Batman: The Animated Series.

.

The R-rated standalone film, announced last year, is expected to follow Arthur the failed stand-up comedian. That story probably won't end well, leading him to a life of villainy as the most notorious, sadistic criminal in Gotham City and beyond. The only description of the film is brief — "an exploration of a man disregarded by society [that] is not only a gritty character study, but also a broader cautionary tale."

.

The film is co-written by Scott Silver (The Finest Hours). Martin Scorsese serves as executive producer, and the film's cast is rumored to include Robert De Niro, Zazie Beetz, Frances Conroy, and Marc Maron. Alec Baldwin, rumored to play Batman's father Thomas Wayne, reportedly dropped out due to scheduling conflicts. It remains unclear who will take on the role.

A set video also shows Phoenix frantically burst out of a New York building, nearly walking into a yellow cab. He lights a cigarette next to an abandoned miniature merry-go-round. He's soon approached by a plump man wearing a clown costume. There's some banter, and the clip concludes with Phoenix yanking the clown's nose off and purposefully tossing it into the street.

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"An origin for the Joker should NOT work - but there's part of me that wonders if it'll be brilliant b/c of the players and pieces?" he said on Twitter.

He's not alone. Phoenix's take on the classic DC villain is a unique departure from Jared Leto's in Suicide Squad, and it looks like fans just might give him (and DC films) a fair shot. Take a look at the footage and let us know what you think in the comments. The standalone Joker film is expected to arrive in theaters Oct 4, 2019.

.

https://www.newsweek.com/...ie-1124490

[Edited 9/5/19 5:29am]

It seems the Joker movie might be close to this version of events

.

Though a number of backstories have been given, a definitive one has not yet been established for the Joker. An unreliable narrator, the character is uncertain of who he was before and how he became the Joker: "Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another ... if I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" A story about the Joker's origin appeared in Detective Comics #168 (February 1951), nearly a decade after the character's debut. Here, the character is a laboratory worker who becomes the Red Hood (a masked criminal) to steal a million dollars from his employer and retire. He falls into a vat of chemical waste when his heist is thwarted by Batman, emerging with bleached white skin, red lips, green hair and a permanent grin.

.

This story was the basis for the most often-cited origin tale, Moore's one-shot The Killing Joke. The Joker quits his job as a lab assistant, becoming a stand-up comedian to support his pregnant wife. Unsuccessful, he agrees to help mobsters with a robbery and dons the Red Hood. The heist goes awry; the comedian leaps into a chemical vat to escape Batman, surfacing disfigured. This, combined with the earlier accidental death of his wife and unborn child, drives the comedian insane and he becomes the Joker. This version has been cited in many stories, including Batman: The Man Who Laughs (in which Batman deduces that the Red Hood survived his fall and became the Joker), Batman #450 (in which the Joker dons the Red Hood to aid his recovery after the events in A Death in the Family, but finds the experience too traumatic) and "Death of the Family." Other stories have expanded on this origin; "Pushback" explains that the Joker's wife was murdered by a corrupt policeman working for the mobsters, and "Payback" gives the Joker's first name as "Jack."

left) Jerry Robinson's 1940 concept sketch of the Joker. (right) Actor Conrad Veidt in character as Gwynplaine in The Man Who Laughs (1928). Veidt's grinning visage inspired the Joker design.

[Edited 9/5/19 5:50am]

1. Jack Napier, you’ll remember, is the same name of the man who eventually becomes the Joker in Tim Burton’s Batman from 1989, meaning that in a way, we’ve known the Joker’s true identity for almost three decades now.

2. “Melvin Reipan” in Dennis O’Neil and Bret Blevins’ Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight from 1993. “Reipan” spelled backwards, is Napier.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/w...1797991110

About the author Charles Pulliam-Moore io9 Culture Critic and Staff Writer. Cyclops was right.

[Edited 9/5/19 5:53am]