PurpleJedi said:

Dave1992 said:

I think so too.

I exactly know that the chance of someone being trustworthy is not determined by their weight. What I meant is that, subconsciously, I find it easier to talk to (~"trust") people who I also feel have a more inviting physical appearance.

A better example would probably be a male person. I am heterosexual, so the possibility of me wanting to lay him is quite low. Still, I'd feel more comfortable talking to him if he looked healthy, neat and if he basically has a convincing charisma.

Is it clearer now?

No...not really "clearer".

Basically it sounds like you are not likely to start up a conversation with an unattractive person simply because they are unattractive.

Dude...if that's the case...

I really don't know what the fuss is about!

Yes, the chance of me starting a conversation with an attractive person are higher. But it's not "simply because they are attractive"; - my mind tells me they are more healthy and, therefore, that I'd feel better surrounding myself with them than with other people (I don't find attractive, or even people I think do not spend enough time and thoughts about what they do and what they eat etc).

Much ado about nothing.

We can certainly discuss the finer points of talking to strangers and the dating world and of the dynamic between sexes, but I find it hard to believe Dave is ever really rude or threatening, or that there is anything wrong with him being attracted to attractive women.

JustErin said:

Dave1992 said:

The one time I talked to a stranger on the train, I walked over to talk to them and didn't even ask them if I could sit down next to them. I was standing at least two metres away and simply talking. I met this person again and we exchanged numbers. We meet about once a month and talk about God, music, the world, friends, uni, everything. We would have had multiple chances to fuck, but we never did. Maybe it will happen one day, maybe it won't. I'm happy either way and thankful for having found such a nice friend.

So, no, that guy doesn't want pussy. Your perception is simply wrong.

Actually, you just proved I was right.

No dude says "maybe it will happen one day" (even if they say it also might not) if they actually do not want it at all.

You're talking as if you know all the men in the world and have been in all of their minds for long enough to make generalisations like this! And while it's possible you've had your share of male lovers, you sure didn't have enough to be this judgmental...

You say I just proved you were right and you backed up your thesis by introducing another thesis out of the blue - that "no dad says...".

Maybe you should just acknowledge that if a person says "maybe it will happen one day", they mean that they simply don't know whether they (and other people involved) will want it to happen some day. You can say that without wanting it even a tiny little bit. It means keeping an open mind and not forgetting the possibility and everybody (including yourself) might change your mind.

Maybe I find it easier to simply sit back and wait for what future brings, because I never worried about having to make distinctions about my "relationship status" or whether it is "appropriate" to sleep with someone or not etc. If both people want it, then so be it. If not, there's no reason to force neither them nor yourself.

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

My english teacher told me this before i graduated high school,

"Justice, no matter how good of friends you are with a guy, and he may love you like he would his sister, but remember this. You're NOT his sister. There will always be a small portion of him saying "there might be a chance for us to fuck". Make no mistake. He will always have that small bit of hope lingering in the back of his mind. It may not be initially on his mind, but it's always there."

Your English teacher probably just wanted to have sex with you. Otherwise he wouldn't have told you such a stupid thing.

Men are often described as helplessm, selfish creatures that are only driven by sex and by seeking attention (even by men themselves). I find that extremely saddening and actually a huge pity. By generalising this way, you're definitely reducing your chances of buidling healthy and free relationships...

It sure is true about many men, just like it is true about many women, but I assure you not every man thinks like that. I don't need "hope" lingering in the back of his mind. If I want sex, I usually know how and where to get it (and, believe me, there are much easier ways than to approach a stranger, become friends and THEN, possibly, sleep with them...) and don't need all this "pretence" shit to get it.

Don't get me wrong - sex is fucking great. I love it. But I won't let it rule my whole life and I certainly won't give it so much power that it becomes the reason for me wanting to get to know new people. I only say "maybe" if you pose the concrete question of whether I think it is possible I might sleep with someone in the future. Before that, I probably wouldn't even think about it, unless there was a direct hint to it.

Ottensen said:

Dave1992 said:

One by one:

- Most of the time, it's the same here. But it's part of showing mutual respect to honestly tell people that you simply don't want to talk (I would understand that, respect that, apologise, wish them a nice day and back off). If they want me to get to the point of what I want, I will probably be completely honest and say "I thought you might be an interesting person to talk to, because you have some kind of appealing charisma. That's all."

- Again, that's completely understandable and acceptable. I'd again apologise and back off. I'd probably find it sad that someone doesn't look for the feeling of connecting with a stranger from time to time, but I won't judge that person because of that.

- You're taking it too literally. Please, people, stop thinking I'm a self-absorbed, narcissistic fool. I was merely talking about the experience of getting to know someone. It's nothing personal, not about me or them, it's only about the experience of talking to a stranger. I have found that this experience will teach someone a lot about themselves. So this "youth" and "omniscience" stuff should be solved too.

In all seriousness, please: I'm trying to use good English and be clear in what I say, I'm trying to use the best words possible to describe my thoughts and make my point. Maybe my English as a non-native isn't good enough and maybe there's some minor cultural barrier that sometimes makes it difficult to interpret what I say correctly, but I often get the feeling that people are looking for tiny details in the things I post and try to make me look like a smart-aleck asshole and expose me. I know that you can't know, but you'll simply have to trust me on this: none of my friends or people who have spent some time with me would ever say that about me. In real life, I'm probably completely different to how you imagine me being. It's a bit exhausting having to deal with all those accusations on a daily basis and re-explaining things a thousand times when I just want to have a healthy, tolerant discussion.

No drama intended (before you people start accusing me of being a drama-queen and telling me to chill), but I just really start to find some of those things I am "accused" of and how the things I say are so often easily dismissed (mainly because of my age?) terribly annoying and unnecessary. Please try to be less prejudiced. Thank you!

No one is looking for details to expose you as anything, at least not me; if I feel I don't have time to engage people who start random conversations with me, I'm certainly not going to engage in that kind of behavor here . For what? In all sincerity it simply doesn't interest me in the least. I also do not imagine you being this way, or that way . No offense, but I've never taken that deep of an interest, not because of anything personal, I'm just like that with anyone I encounter here unless we have established a relationship. I am sorry to hear that you feel you are being accused of being something you are not, though; that most certainly is not a good feeling, no matter where the accusation stems from be it on the Net or in real life.

You're clearly a smart young man who does possess some wisdom beyond his years, but try not to be mad if some of us might see it as coming off from time to time as precocious (altklug oder früreif- see how crappy my German is? ) . Chances are we just recognize it from seeing it in ourselves when we were your age . It's not meant to be harmful or accusatory. I think that it just takes some of us back down memory lane bit, and a few years of life experience on our belts makes us a little less idealistic when we are in scenarios like you describe in your orginal post.

I certainly don't think anyone here would think you're a fool, & I don't even think anyone would think you are self-absorbed or narcissistic. Try not be be annoyed at what you see as misinterpretation here on the board. In a place like this, unfortunately that's going to happen a lot, particularly as we all hail from different locales, cultures and formative experiences that influence how we individually see the world and express ourselves. But you know what? Here's the good news: the more you continue to engage others here and express yourself in a clear, heartfelt manner, I think it becomes very easy for people to eventually understand your intentions and what's truly in your heart.

It was only your last paragraph that inspired me to just put it out there.

No worries, I believe you. And thanks for your advice.

NDRU said:

Much ado about nothing.

We can certainly discuss the finer points of talking to strangers and the dating world and of the dynamic between sexes, but I find it hard to believe Dave is ever really rude or threatening, or that there is anything wrong with him being attracted to attractive women.

Thank you! It's actually this simple, really.

"Being attracted to" means just that. It doesn't mean you're obsessing about that person, it doesn't necessarily have to be sexual or even erotic attraction, it doesn't mean you're thinking about ways to fuck them and it doesn't mean you're not interested in who they actually are.

Dave1992 said:

tinaz said:

Awww this made me kinda sad...

The thing is Dave... Germans (yes your Austrian, same thing! ) are for the most part VERY blunt matter of fact people... There is no playing around with words, you say what you say, how you say it, but the rest of the world is left going I think you are right that its cultural difference's... We as Americans are usually a bit more humble, so we see it as bragging, or being snotty, when in actuality this is just how the German people are...

The only thing I do have to say about you that bothers me is.... Stop bashing Americans... Stop talking about us as though we are inferior to you or any European nation... We dont do that to you... Thanks!

Yeah, I think that might be true... Although even people in Austria say how arrogant Germans often are/sound.

Yes, I may often be very direct. But I'm really doing my best to assure people that my intentions are never bad and that I'm quite sure I know the international defintion of "arrogance", "narcissism" and what not and that I promise you, if you asked any of the people who really know me, all of them would say I am everything but that...

The thing about "bashing Americans": I apologised for the jokes I made back then - I really didn't mean to hurt anyone personally (one thing I have learned is that Americans are usually way more patriotic or at least identify themselves with their country way more than most Western Europeans do. Here, you laugh and joke about every stereotype, even your own country's). I have stopped to joke about "over-weight Americans", "electric-chair-loving Texans", "plastic-boobed Californians", the "old, rich, boring, huge car driving retirees" in Florida and all the rest. The reason I joked about these stereotypes so openly is because I know that they're not true and laughable. I didn't know some people would take it so seriously and I'm sorry for that.

As regards my serious attitude towards America: I know some lovely, lovely people from there - tolerant, intelligent, funny, broad-minded, nice, simply great people. I also know idiots from America (just like I know idiots from Europe). But due to social, economic, environmental and cultural reasons I'd rather live in Europe and am of the opinion that, for me, Europe is the better place. I hope you don't call the "bashing Americans", because it's simply a personal preference. It doesn't mean I judge the people of America because of that!

Thank you!

Dave, you missed my point

Did you even have a point?

No, seriously. What you imply to be true simply isn't, because I can guarantee that taking me as an example (and I have other male friends who think the same way too).

By your own admission you stated that you would not approach a woman you were not attracted to. Whether you want to admit or not it's clear that you do not understand or even worse refuse to accept that your actions are motivated by sex.

It's normal and it is natural and no matter how much you want to put it under the guise as such things as you just like "pretty things"...it's about sex. Bottom line.

You are no more enlightened or above any other dude when it comes to this and I simply say that in direct response to what you have said in here. You really are just a regular dude...and thats fine.

But I do understand why you feel and say some of the things that you do and say. I was once like you. Experience has taught me so much and it will do the same for you.

Guh, I am on my phone and it is brutal to use on this site. Please excuse any typos amd shit. i dont have the patience to go back and proof read it.

JustErin said:

By your own admission you stated that you would not approach a woman you were not attracted to. Whether you want to admit or not it's clear that you do not understand or even worse refuse to accept that your actions are motivated by sex. It's normal and it is natural and no matter how much you want to put it under the guise as such things as you just like "pretty things"...it's about sex. Bottom line. You are no more enlightened or above any other dude when it comes to this and I simply say that in direct response to what you have said in here. You really are just a regular dude...and thats fine. But I do understand why you feel and say some of the things that you do and say. I was once like you. Experience has taught me so much and it will do the same for you. Guh, I am on my phone and it is brutal to use on this site. Please excuse any typos amd shit. i dont have the patience to go back and proof read it.

I gave an example with a male counterpart. - I'd rather approach a man who looks healthy and good and therefore "attracts" me. There is no sexual desire. And it can be the same with women.

You are acting like you are my personal psychologist ("you refuse to accept that your actions are motivated by sex")!

I know they aren't. Take it as you want to. I've said it a couple of times now and I even explained how it works and gave examples.

AGAIN, I never said or even gave the hint of being more enlightend or above any other person in any way. Got that?

I'm also fine with being "a regular dude" (whatever that is supposed to mean). That doesn't mean I have to act and think the same way you imagine "a regular dude" to be.

You're being a bit insulting. And you don't seem to be able to take in the fact the not everything in this world works the way you think it does. Even though you're so experienced and what not.

artist76 said:

What a coincidence - a friend recommended this book to me just an hour ago! I got paranoid for my daughter (she's 9 yrs old) by a show I saw on TV, about 18 yr old girls getting kidnapped. They just went on quick errands or were coming straight home from school. Heck, even 25 yr old, 35 yr old women get kidnapped/raped. So at what age can I let my daughter do things and go places by herself? Never? So my friend said, of course, she must become independent one day, must be allowed the freedoms of any adult, be able to go to the store, trips by herself, etc. - but that I should get this book and just teach her to be careful and trust her instincts.

My friend told me there's advice in the book that kids should go to a person in uniform when they're lost, and preferably to a woman. My friend said the book addresses the POV of a man who is offended by this advice, because he is a nice man and would help little kids. But the author points out that the kids wouldn't know that you happen to be nice, so the nice man needs to understand the POV of other people (esp. women and children), they will and should distrust you.

So Dave, the experience of being a woman is completely different from that of a man. Maybe when you have a daughter you'd understand. If you would try to see things from our perspective, you'd understand why many women do not wish to be approached by an unknown man. See the bolded quote above.

I relate to deadcake's point - it's very similar to the way French people (in general) deal with other people. within French culture, between French people, you generally do not just come up to someone & say, basically, "hey how ya doin'?!?" regardless of how "nice" the person/guy is or may seem, regardless of their good/wholesome/innocuous intentions.

Americans who know little or nothing about French people normally see this as the French being "snobby" or "cold".. but it's not that. in French culture - if you (as a "foreigner") want to fit into you, you have to learn how to do what they do. I lived in France for a few years.. & 90% of the French I met/know are friendly - IF you are in (or put yourself in) a situation within their social codes that gives them (& you) the opportunity to be that way.

so, if - like deadcake said - you (momentarily) share a small experience of some sort, then that could be the opening to start talking about that little experience or whatever.

then, I definitely relate to artist76's perspective. I have a 4-year daughter who is as friendly & as open as any child you'd meet. she will learn - she will be taught - that she cannot just say hi to anybody or start opening up to any person she doesn't know. in this day & age, there are simply too many sick, evil & dangerous people out there in the world. my daughter is so innocent, so trusting of everyone.. part of me really hates to have to "bust her bubble" about how some people are..

but I absolutely will do that.

I want her to err on the side of caution & not feel guilty or bad because she didn't respond to some guy sitting next to her on a bus (or where ever)..

obviously I never would want to learn that she got abducted by Lord knows who

even if that guy seemed "harmless"..

I am a man - a grown man.. &

I

don't readily talk to people - men or women - that I don't know

or with whom I don't have some "organic shared commonality or experience" from which a verbal exchange could come.

justErin also made a valid point: that most of the time, someone - typically a male - will approach someone because they see something - physically or otherwise - that motivates (=attracts) them to go talk to that woman/person.

as for Dave1992 himself - he introduced a good, thought-provoking thread. I can see his overall perspective.. but even if he believes that it's too bad that it's this way now/today..

oh well.

it is still the way it is..

there still are too many sick & evil people in this world.

right or wrong, most of these sick & evil people are male.

that's not "male bashing" - that's how it is.

as also previously suggested, Dave1992 might want to look a little deeper (more honestly?) at his motivation/rationale for approaching unaccompanied woman in any situation.

a little earlier in this thread someone mentioned Ted Bundy - enough said.

Ted Bundy (should have) ruined it for all "decent guys" - for the rest of all time.

people who supposedly "knew him very well" had

NO IDEA

about all the horrible & disgusting things he did - to women - for years.

if Bundy could come across as the "wholesome all-American guy"

& wreak all the havoc & destruction that he did..

then anybody else could too.

Dave1992 said:

JustErin said:

By your own admission you stated that you would not approach a woman you were not attracted to. Whether you want to admit or not it's clear that you do not understand or even worse refuse to accept that your actions are motivated by sex. It's normal and it is natural and no matter how much you want to put it under the guise as such things as you just like "pretty things"...it's about sex. Bottom line. You are no more enlightened or above any other dude when it comes to this and I simply say that in direct response to what you have said in here. You really are just a regular dude...and thats fine. But I do understand why you feel and say some of the things that you do and say. I was once like you. Experience has taught me so much and it will do the same for you. Guh, I am on my phone and it is brutal to use on this site. Please excuse any typos amd shit. i dont have the patience to go back and proof read it.

I gave an example with a male counterpart. - I'd rather approach a man who looks healthy and good and therefore "attracts" me. There is no sexual desire. And it can be the same with women.

You are acting like you are my personal psychologist ("you refuse to accept that your actions are motivated by sex")!

I know they aren't. Take it as you want to. I've said it a couple of times now and I even explained how it works and gave examples.

AGAIN, I never said or even gave the hint of being more enlightend or above any other person in any way. Got that?

I'm also fine with being "a regular dude" (whatever that is supposed to mean). That doesn't mean I have to act and think the same way you imagine "a regular dude" to be.

You're being a bit insulting. And you don't seem to be able to take in the fact the not everything in this world works the way you think it does. Even though you're so experienced and what not.

Seriously Dave...I think that you need to take a step back and revisit your own thread.

The whole point of this is you questioning why women assume that when a man approaches them it's about sex.

Then you admitted that you don't really approach women "for conversation" who are ugly.

Then you tried to justify it by adding that you also approach men and you're straight (even though in the past you've admitted to appreciating males)...whatever...

"Why the fuss?" you ask?

Because you asked a question and don't like the answer.

BUT for the sake of argument, let me ask you this;

...you initially stated that you enjoy "getting to know the character" of people, especially good-looking women. WHY? Character has little to do with outward appearance. In fact, if that's what drives you (meaning "character") then you should aim for less beautiful people because in general (not to offend any pretty people) but we "ugly folk" tend to develop our character to compensate for less-than-spectacular genes. That's a big stereotype, I know this...but honestly this thread isn't making a case for the opposite.

Well Dave, I'm sorry you feel that I am insulting you as that was not my intent and it's unfortunate that you really think that I beleive everyone thinks as I do. I clearly do not think that way and nothing I have said would imply that. I personally think a lot of my thoughts are considered radical compared to most but whatevs.

But hey, your truth is just that...it's simply your truth and I accept it as that.

Guess there is nothing else more for me to add.

JustErin said:

By your own admission you stated that you would not approach a woman you were not attracted to. Whether you want to admit or not it's clear that you do not understand or even worse refuse to accept that your actions are motivated by sex. It's normal and it is natural and no matter how much you want to put it under the guise as such things as you just like "pretty things"...it's about sex. Bottom line. You are no more enlightened or above any other dude when it comes to this and I simply say that in direct response to what you have said in here. You really are just a regular dude...and thats fine. But I do understand why you feel and say some of the things that you do and say. I was once like you. Experience has taught me so much and it will do the same for you. Guh, I am on my phone and it is brutal to use on this site. Please excuse any typos amd shit. i dont have the patience to go back and proof read it.

Oh, Erin......

So beautiful, so intelligent!

PurpleJedi said:

Dave1992 said:

I gave an example with a male counterpart. - I'd rather approach a man who looks healthy and good and therefore "attracts" me. There is no sexual desire. And it can be the same with women.

You are acting like you are my personal psychologist ("you refuse to accept that your actions are motivated by sex")!

I know they aren't. Take it as you want to. I've said it a couple of times now and I even explained how it works and gave examples.

AGAIN, I never said or even gave the hint of being more enlightend or above any other person in any way. Got that?

I'm also fine with being "a regular dude" (whatever that is supposed to mean). That doesn't mean I have to act and think the same way you imagine "a regular dude" to be.

You're being a bit insulting. And you don't seem to be able to take in the fact the not everything in this world works the way you think it does. Even though you're so experienced and what not.

Seriously Dave...I think that you need to take a step back and revisit your own thread.

The whole point of this is you questioning why women assume that when a man approaches them it's about sex.

Then you admitted that you don't really approach women "for conversation" who are ugly.

Then you tried to justify it by adding that you also approach men and you're straight (even though in the past you've admitted to appreciating males)...whatever...

"Why the fuss?" you ask?

Because you asked a question and don't like the answer.

BUT for the sake of argument, let me ask you this;

...you initially stated that you enjoy "getting to know the character" of people, especially good-looking women. WHY? Character has little to do with outward appearance. In fact, if that's what drives you (meaning "character") then you should aim for less beautiful people because in general (not to offend any pretty people) but we "ugly folk" tend to develop our character to compensate for less-than-spectacular genes. That's a big stereotype, I know this...but honestly this thread isn't making a case for the opposite.

This is not "whatever"-league; it's actually very important. By the way, I have never said that I have "appreciated" males in the way you are implying. Yes, I appreciate males! Why shouldn't I? But there's no sexual intent or erotic attraction behind my appreciating of men and never was. So, my example is actually quite relevant.

I really wouldn't have any problem with any other opinion. What I find annoying is when people either can't read properly (or my writing isn't good enough to get my point across) or when people think that their opinion is law and that their life-long experience is proof for that.

Actually, in my opinion, character has a LOT to do with outward appearance (and I already mentioned that in an earlier post). The character of a person influences so many subtle, beautiful details... how a person holds items, how a person walks, how a person moves overall, how long a person maintains eye contact, IF a person maintains eye contact while they talk to you, how often they wink, which perfume they decide to wear, which clothes they decide to put on etc etc.

Dave1992 said:

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

My english teacher told me this before i graduated high school,

"Justice, no matter how good of friends you are with a guy, and he may love you like he would his sister, but remember this. You're NOT his sister. There will always be a small portion of him saying "there might be a chance for us to fuck". Make no mistake. He will always have that small bit of hope lingering in the back of his mind. It may not be initially on his mind, but it's always there."

Your English teacher probably just wanted to have sex with you. Otherwise he wouldn't have told you such a stupid thing.

Men are often described as helplessm, selfish creatures that are only driven by sex and by seeking attention (even by men themselves). I find that extremely saddening and actually a huge pity. By generalising this way, you're definitely reducing your chances of buidling healthy and free relationships...

It sure is true about many men, just like it is true about many women, but I assure you not every man thinks like that. I don't need "hope" lingering in the back of his mind. If I want sex, I usually know how and where to get it (and, believe me, there are much easier ways than to approach a stranger, become friends and THEN, possibly, sleep with them...) and don't need all this "pretence" shit to get it.

Don't get me wrong - sex is fucking great. I love it. But I won't let it rule my whole life and I certainly won't give it so much power that it becomes the reason for me wanting to get to know new people. I only say "maybe" if you pose the concrete question of whether I think it is possible I might sleep with someone in the future. Before that, I probably wouldn't even think about it, unless there was a direct hint to it.

Sorry Dave, but to think Mr. McDowell wanted to fuck me is a very disturbing thought. All he ever ranted about was how hot he thought Angie Jolie was. But eh, who knows.

I know it's not about every man. I mean, I've meet men who never once made a pass at me or ever flirted with me. They just talked to me and were quite cordial and respectful. I find that to be very refreshing. I can have normal conversation with them, and they're interested in what I have to say and RESPECT what I have to say. It honestly feels wonderful when you find someone like that. If I find someone like that, I don't care if he's ugly or handsome. Although I too will admit, that I do find myself attracted to those that might be deemed handsome. Thank God I have decerning tastes... Pretty faces are not enough for me.

Personally, I think the men that spend time trying to foster a friendship with me and then out of the blue begin acting strangly. They start acting overly nice, or coyly flirting with you, intentionally saying double ententes. I don't like that. I prefer people to be direct about everything when talking to me. None of this beating around the bush bullshit. I get mixed signals and I have no idea how to react or what to say except call them out on it. And even then they won't admit they're playing around. I've had enough of those games to last me a life time. Probably why I have the reluctance to have a lot of male friends. I really don't know what to expect from them anymore.

And about you preferring the company of "pretty" women. I'm not gonna judge you or any other person who acts like that. It's simply a case of evolution. We're more attracted to things/people we deem to be beautiful because we think they are safe. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

Dave1992 said:

Your English teacher probably just wanted to have sex with you. Otherwise he wouldn't have told you such a stupid thing.

Men are often described as helplessm, selfish creatures that are only driven by sex and by seeking attention (even by men themselves). I find that extremely saddening and actually a huge pity. By generalising this way, you're definitely reducing your chances of buidling healthy and free relationships...

It sure is true about many men, just like it is true about many women, but I assure you not every man thinks like that. I don't need "hope" lingering in the back of his mind. If I want sex, I usually know how and where to get it (and, believe me, there are much easier ways than to approach a stranger, become friends and THEN, possibly, sleep with them...) and don't need all this "pretence" shit to get it.

Don't get me wrong - sex is fucking great. I love it. But I won't let it rule my whole life and I certainly won't give it so much power that it becomes the reason for me wanting to get to know new people. I only say "maybe" if you pose the concrete question of whether I think it is possible I might sleep with someone in the future. Before that, I probably wouldn't even think about it, unless there was a direct hint to it.

Sorry Dave, but to think Mr. McDowell wanted to fuck me is a very disturbing thought. All he ever ranted about was how hot he thought Angie Jolie was. But eh, who knows.

I know it's not about every man. I mean, I've meet men who never once made a pass at me or ever flirted with me. They just talked to me and were quite cordial and respectful. I find that to be very refreshing. I can have normal conversation with them, and they're interested in what I have to say and RESPECT what I have to say. It honestly feels wonderful when you find someone like that. If I find someone like that, I don't care if he's ugly or handsome. Although I too will admit, that I do find myself attracted to those that might be deemed handsome. Thank God I have decerning tastes... Pretty faces are not enough for me.

Personally, I think the men that spend time trying to foster a friendship with me and then out of the blue begin acting strangly. They start acting overly nice, or coyly flirting with you, intentionally saying double ententes. I don't like that. I prefer people to be direct about everything when talking to me. None of this beating around the bush bullshit. I get mixed signals and I have no idea how to react or what to say except call them out on it. And even then they won't admit they're playing around. I've had enough of those games to last me a life time. Probably why I have the reluctance to have a lot of male friends. I really don't know what to expect from them anymore.

And about you preferring the company of "pretty" women. I'm not gonna judge you or any other person who acts like that. It's simply a case of evolution. We're more attracted to things/people we deem to be beautiful because we think they are safe. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

Nice post.

And the bolded part is exactly what I have been trying to say. I couldn't have put it better (although Lord knows I've tried! )!

Dave1992 said:

PurpleJedi said:

Seriously Dave...I think that you need to take a step back and revisit your own thread.

The whole point of this is you questioning why women assume that when a man approaches them it's about sex.

Then you admitted that you don't really approach women "for conversation" who are ugly.

Then you tried to justify it by adding that you also approach men and you're straight (even though in the past you've admitted to appreciating males)...whatever...

"Why the fuss?" you ask?

Because you asked a question and don't like the answer.

BUT for the sake of argument, let me ask you this;

...you initially stated that you enjoy "getting to know the character" of people, especially good-looking women. WHY? Character has little to do with outward appearance. In fact, if that's what drives you (meaning "character") then you should aim for less beautiful people because in general (not to offend any pretty people) but we "ugly folk" tend to develop our character to compensate for less-than-spectacular genes. That's a big stereotype, I know this...but honestly this thread isn't making a case for the opposite.

This is not "whatever"-league; it's actually very important. By the way, I have never said that I have "appreciated" males in the way you are implying. Yes, I appreciate males! Why shouldn't I? But there's no sexual intent or erotic attraction behind my appreciating of men and never was. So, my example is actually quite relevant.

I really wouldn't have any problem with any other opinion. What I find annoying is when people either can't read properly (or my writing isn't good enough to get my point across) or when people think that their opinion is law and that their life-long experience is proof for that.

Actually, in my opinion, character has a LOT to do with outward appearance (and I already mentioned that in an earlier post). The character of a person influences so many subtle, beautiful details... how a person holds items, how a person walks, how a person moves overall, how long a person maintains eye contact, IF a person maintains eye contact while they talk to you, how often they wink, which perfume they decide to wear, which clothes they decide to put on etc etc.

Nothing that you mentioned above is really "character", and nothing that a well-mannered person with good taste doesn't possess even if they're 300lbs.

I'm not going to beat this horse...we've both said what we're going to say...but if you truly, honestly aren't expression your opinion properly then examine what you say (not how you say it, because you seem to have a decent mastery of the English language).

PurpleJedi said:

Dave1992 said:

This is not "whatever"-league; it's actually very important. By the way, I have never said that I have "appreciated" males in the way you are implying. Yes, I appreciate males! Why shouldn't I? But there's no sexual intent or erotic attraction behind my appreciating of men and never was. So, my example is actually quite relevant.

I really wouldn't have any problem with any other opinion. What I find annoying is when people either can't read properly (or my writing isn't good enough to get my point across) or when people think that their opinion is law and that their life-long experience is proof for that.

Actually, in my opinion, character has a LOT to do with outward appearance (and I already mentioned that in an earlier post). The character of a person influences so many subtle, beautiful details... how a person holds items, how a person walks, how a person moves overall, how long a person maintains eye contact, IF a person maintains eye contact while they talk to you, how often they wink, which perfume they decide to wear, which clothes they decide to put on etc etc.

Nothing that you mentioned above is really "character", and nothing that a well-mannered person with good taste doesn't possess even if they're 300lbs.

I'm not going to beat this horse...we've both said what we're going to say...but if you truly, honestly aren't expression your opinion properly then examine what you say (not how you say it, because you seem to have a decent mastery of the English language).

I said: "The character of a person influences so many subtle, beautiful details..." and then went on listing those details.

Of course those are things that a heavy person could possess too, but that is not the point, is it? I was simply explaining how I connect "character" and "appearance".

The thing about over-weight people is a different part of this discussion, well explained by ThruTheEyes two posts up!

Dave1992 said:

PurpleJedi said:

Nothing that you mentioned above is really "character", and nothing that a well-mannered person with good taste doesn't possess even if they're 300lbs.

I'm not going to beat this horse...we've both said what we're going to say...but if you truly, honestly aren't expression your opinion properly then examine what you say (not how you say it, because you seem to have a decent mastery of the English language).

I said: "The character of a person influences so many subtle, beautiful details..." and then went on listing those details.

Of course those are things that a heavy person could possess too, but that is not the point, is it? I was simply explaining how I connect "character" and "appearance".

The thing about over-weight people is a different part of this discussion, well explained by ThruTheEyes two posts up!

OK.

Dave1992 said:

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

Sorry Dave, but to think Mr. McDowell wanted to fuck me is a very disturbing thought. All he ever ranted about was how hot he thought Angie Jolie was. But eh, who knows.

I know it's not about every man. I mean, I've meet men who never once made a pass at me or ever flirted with me. They just talked to me and were quite cordial and respectful. I find that to be very refreshing. I can have normal conversation with them, and they're interested in what I have to say and RESPECT what I have to say. It honestly feels wonderful when you find someone like that. If I find someone like that, I don't care if he's ugly or handsome. Although I too will admit, that I do find myself attracted to those that might be deemed handsome. Thank God I have decerning tastes... Pretty faces are not enough for me.

Personally, I think the men that spend time trying to foster a friendship with me and then out of the blue begin acting strangly. They start acting overly nice, or coyly flirting with you, intentionally saying double ententes. I don't like that. I prefer people to be direct about everything when talking to me. None of this beating around the bush bullshit. I get mixed signals and I have no idea how to react or what to say except call them out on it. And even then they won't admit they're playing around. I've had enough of those games to last me a life time. Probably why I have the reluctance to have a lot of male friends. I really don't know what to expect from them anymore.

And about you preferring the company of "pretty" women. I'm not gonna judge you or any other person who acts like that. It's simply a case of evolution. We're more attracted to things/people we deem to be beautiful because we think they are safe. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

Nice post.

And the bolded part is exactly what I have been trying to say. I couldn't have put it better (although Lord knows I've tried! )!

Peace, Dave. I understand what you're trying to say.

But yeah, it's a survival mechanism that's instilled in everyone. Not saying it's right, but that's what happens. It's just a part of what is to be human.

PurpleJedi said:

Dave1992 said:

I said: "The character of a person influences so many subtle, beautiful details..." and then went on listing those details.

Of course those are things that a heavy person could possess too, but that is not the point, is it? I was simply explaining how I connect "character" and "appearance".

The thing about over-weight people is a different part of this discussion, well explained by ThruTheEyes two posts up!

OK.

Didn't want to make you shut up! Just tried to explain and exemplify.

Dave1992 said:

NDRU said:

Much ado about nothing.

We can certainly discuss the finer points of talking to strangers and the dating world and of the dynamic between sexes, but I find it hard to believe Dave is ever really rude or threatening, or that there is anything wrong with him being attracted to attractive women.

Thank you! It's actually this simple, really.

"Being attracted to" means just that. It doesn't mean you're obsessing about that person, it doesn't necessarily have to be sexual or even erotic attraction, it doesn't mean you're thinking about ways to fuck them and it doesn't mean you're not interested in who they actually are.

Sometimes there is a difference between the two terms, IMO.

"I am attracted to her/him"

and

"He/she is attractive"

The first is acknowledging that person's magnetism to YOU

The second acknowledges the fact that person is attractive generally, to more than one person.

I do think people are attracted to people for many reasons. I have reasons for why I struck up friendships with certain people and not others, but I wouldn't go as far as saying they are all people that are better looking than other people, or that my attraction was based on their physical appearance. It might be their laugh, the way their eyes twinkle, the way they are quick to make decisions or agree wholeheartedly and are excited about STUFF! MANY things! A lot of those things aren't apparent until you have interracted with them so maybe I'm going around in circles. Situations throw you in the mix with people and you either click or you don't. I DON'T believe you can guess if you will get along with someone just from the way they look.

The whole idea of being attractive or attracting is to procreate though, don't discount evolution! You might not acknowledge the underlying reason is for you to find a suitable mate. All those non-sexual characteristics or experiences you seek are just to find a nice lady who is wife-material (j/k)

Deadcake said:

Dave1992 said:

Thank you! It's actually this simple, really.

"Being attracted to" means just that. It doesn't mean you're obsessing about that person, it doesn't necessarily have to be sexual or even erotic attraction, it doesn't mean you're thinking about ways to fuck them and it doesn't mean you're not interested in who they actually are.

Sometimes there is a difference between the two terms, IMO.

"I am attracted to her/him"

and

"He/she is attractive"

The first is acknowledging that person's magnetism to YOU

The second acknowledges the fact that person is attractive generally, to more than one person.

I do think people are attracted to people for many reasons. I have reasons for why I struck up friendships with certain people and not others, but I wouldn't go as far as saying they are all people that are better looking than other people, or that my attraction was based on their physical appearance. It might be their laugh, the way their eyes twinkle, the way they are quick to make decisions or agree wholeheartedly and are excited about STUFF! MANY things! A lot of those things aren't apparent until you have interracted with them so maybe I'm going around in circles. Situations throw you in the mix with people and you either click or you don't. I DON'T believe you can guess if you will get along with someone just from the way they look.

The whole idea of being attractive or attracting is to procreate though, don't discount evolution! You might not acknowledge the underlying reason is for you to find a suitable mate. All those non-sexual characteristics or experiences you seek are just to find a nice lady who is wife-material (j/k)

Neither do I! I just tried to find a reason for why I'm subconsciously drawn to people I think "look good" other than sexual intent, because I know it isn't that.

Even though your last paragraph was meant as a joke, I have to admit that it is possible, of course! Maybe I'm just looking for the last innocent person on this planet, so that I can finally trust them as much as I would like strangers to be able to trust me! But this is pseudo-psychological verbiage and very incalculable, as I'm just hypothesising. The only thing I'm very certain about is that sex is certainly not on my mind when I see a person who is so charismatic I want to connect with them.

Dave1992 said:

Deadcake said:

Sometimes there is a difference between the two terms, IMO.

"I am attracted to her/him"

and

"He/she is attractive"

The first is acknowledging that person's magnetism to YOU

The second acknowledges the fact that person is attractive generally, to more than one person.

I do think people are attracted to people for many reasons. I have reasons for why I struck up friendships with certain people and not others, but I wouldn't go as far as saying they are all people that are better looking than other people, or that my attraction was based on their physical appearance. It might be their laugh, the way their eyes twinkle, the way they are quick to make decisions or agree wholeheartedly and are excited about STUFF! MANY things! A lot of those things aren't apparent until you have interracted with them so maybe I'm going around in circles. Situations throw you in the mix with people and you either click or you don't. I DON'T believe you can guess if you will get along with someone just from the way they look.

The whole idea of being attractive or attracting is to procreate though, don't discount evolution! You might not acknowledge the underlying reason is for you to find a suitable mate. All those non-sexual characteristics or experiences you seek are just to find a nice lady who is wife-material (j/k)

Neither do I! I just tried to find a reason for why I'm subconsciously drawn to people I think "look good" other than sexual intent, because I know it isn't that.

Even though your last paragraph was meant as a joke, I have to admit that it is possible, of course! Maybe I'm just looking for the last innocent person on this planet, so that I can finally trust them as much as I would like strangers to be able to trust me! But this is pseudo-psychological verbiage and very incalculable, as I'm just hypothesising. The only thing I'm very certain about is that sex is certainly not on my mind when I see a person who is so charismatic I want to connect with them.

I guess you meant that a person "looks good" to you but not just in the literal sense, that makes sense to me (and perhaps that's a matter of semantics).

It's important that you get along with your mate so it's NOT just apparent fertility your potential lady should demonstrate, but also intellect to match yours, values, goals, viewpoints (challenging or matching, both can work wonderfully!) someone you can learn from who can learn from you. Someone that complements you

(Gosh that list makes this look impossible! Good luck!!)

Deadcake said:

Dave1992 said:

Neither do I! I just tried to find a reason for why I'm subconsciously drawn to people I think "look good" other than sexual intent, because I know it isn't that.

Even though your last paragraph was meant as a joke, I have to admit that it is possible, of course! Maybe I'm just looking for the last innocent person on this planet, so that I can finally trust them as much as I would like strangers to be able to trust me! But this is pseudo-psychological verbiage and very incalculable, as I'm just hypothesising. The only thing I'm very certain about is that sex is certainly not on my mind when I see a person who is so charismatic I want to connect with them.

I guess you meant that a person "looks good" to you but not just in the literal sense, that makes sense to me (and perhaps that's a matter of semantics).

It's important that you get along with your mate so it's NOT just apparent fertility your potential lady should demonstrate, but also intellect to match yours, values, goals, viewpoints (challenging or matching, both can work wonderfully!) someone you can learn from who can learn from you. Someone that complements you

(Gosh that list makes this look impossible! Good luck!!)

Yes to all of this.

Dave1992 said:

Deadcake said:

I guess you meant that a person "looks good" to you but not just in the literal sense, that makes sense to me (and perhaps that's a matter of semantics).

It's important that you get along with your mate so it's NOT just apparent fertility your potential lady should demonstrate, but also intellect to match yours, values, goals, viewpoints (challenging or matching, both can work wonderfully!) someone you can learn from who can learn from you. Someone that complements you

(Gosh that list makes this look impossible! Good luck!!)

Yes to all of this.

You can go to bed now - goodnight!

Deadcake said:

Dave1992 said:

Yes to all of this.

You can go to bed now - goodnight!

I've got phases when I don't sleep much, but you're probably right. Got an important gig tomorrow!

Sweet dreams to all of you.

Deadcake said:

Dave1992 said:

Thank you! It's actually this simple, really.

"Being attracted to" means just that. It doesn't mean you're obsessing about that person, it doesn't necessarily have to be sexual or even erotic attraction, it doesn't mean you're thinking about ways to fuck them and it doesn't mean you're not interested in who they actually are.

Sometimes there is a difference between the two terms, IMO.

"I am attracted to her/him"

and

"He/she is attractive"

The first is acknowledging that person's magnetism to YOU

The second acknowledges the fact that person is attractive generally, to more than one person.

I do think people are attracted to people for many reasons. I have reasons for why I struck up friendships with certain people and not others, but I wouldn't go as far as saying they are all people that are better looking than other people, or that my attraction was based on their physical appearance. It might be their laugh, the way their eyes twinkle, the way they are quick to make decisions or agree wholeheartedly and are excited about STUFF! MANY things! A lot of those things aren't apparent until you have interracted with them so maybe I'm going around in circles. Situations throw you in the mix with people and you either click or you don't. I DON'T believe you can guess if you will get along with someone just from the way they look.

The whole idea of being attractive or attracting is to procreate though, don't discount evolution! You might not acknowledge the underlying reason is for you to find a suitable mate. All those non-sexual characteristics or experiences you seek are just to find a nice lady who is wife-material (j/k)

Absolutely, I was partly just making a little play on words, but I also think there is nothing wrong with a person's "attractiveness" being a factor in being attracted to them.

There's more to attraction than just looks, but it plays some part, generally.