I'm with Carrie. When I'm out I do not want to be hassled - by anyone, but especially by men. As she said, women are constantly hit on (and harassed) and it gets really annoying. If some strange guy steps to me, I will not engage in a conversation and will probably be pretty rude/bitchy about getting away.

I just finished reading a book called "The Gift of Fear" that talks a lot about pre-indicators of violence and how to recognize them. Men who approach woman without knowing them should not be offended or "find it quite sad how many women are completely surprised, nervous or actually ignorant and mean when a man approaches them with a smile on his face and simply wants to talk." As the author, Gavin de Becker, writes, "A decent man would understand her reaction or, more likely, wouldn't have approached a woman alone in the first place, unless she really had some obvious need." To imply that a woman might be ignorant because she doesn't want to humor your interest in "pretty things" is ignorant, in my opinion.

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

Dave1992 said:

Your very last statement is very interesting and probably sheds a lot of light on some people's reactions.

However, the Michael Jackson quote in your sig is also important!

I don't expect anyone to trust me straight away, but I don't want people to exclude the possibility of me being trust-worthy straight away.

Personally, I am a very, very suspicious person. But still, when I don't know someone, I expect them to have good intentions. I can be proven wrong very quickly and completely back off very quickly, but I find it important for me psychologically and I find it to be more fair towards the other person. I'd like to be treated the same when I approach somebody.

Well Dave, if I ever met you, I'd treat you with the dignity and respect you deserve. I wouldn't outright cuss you for approaching me, nor would I assume you untrustworthy.

And yes, the quote is very important. It's there to remind me to keep my heart open (even though at times my heart and my mind are two separate entities. ). It's not easy when you've been hurt, and deeply. But I try. I honestly try.

[Edited 2/22/12 15:04pm]

I have often acted (and still often do) in a certain way, because I have been hurt in the past. But I have learned that this is unfair towards new people I met and that they do deserve the opportunity to prove me wrong, even if I find it hard to give them this opportunity.

Thankfully, many people have taught me that it is not everybody's intention to harm me.

Dave1992 said:

Well, I'm not talking about "chit-chatting", though. I hate small talk about the wheather and what not, especially with strangers.

When I go over to talk to someone I think looks interesting, I usually pose not so conventional questions. I can't think of a good example right now, but I'm definitely not going "by the books" of "how to get to know someone". It depends on what the person is doing etc. If someone has an iPod lying next to them I would ask something like "does music make you happy? Does it also make you cry sometimes?" because things like that is what I'm really interested in and it says much more about the person. Whether and how they answer also says a lot. Some questions might be too personal, probably, but I rarely go over the really personal or even sexual border...

If a strange guy came up to me and asked me questions like that out of the blue, I'd be completely weirded out. It's too personal for a first encounter, and it also smacks of a pick-up line. I'd most likely give you a dirty look/roll my eyes at you, tell you "I don't talk to strangers," and walk away.

jone70 said:

I'm with Carrie. When I'm out I do not want to be hassled - by anyone, but especially by men. As she said, women are constantly hit on (and harassed) and it gets really annoying. If some strange guy steps to me, I will not engage in a conversation and will probably be pretty rude/bitchy about getting away.

I just finished reading a book called "The Gift of Fear" that talks a lot about pre-indicators of violence and how to recognize them. Men who approach woman without knowing them should not be offended or "find it quite sad how many women are completely surprised, nervous or actually ignorant and mean when a man approaches them with a smile on his face and simply wants to talk." As the author, Gavin de Becker, writes, "A decent man would understand her reaction or, more likely, wouldn't have approached a woman alone in the first place, unless she really had some obvious need." To imply that a woman might be ignorant because she doesn't want to humor your interest in "pretty things" is ignorant, in my opinion.

In return, I find it actually to generalise and to be so judgmental, thinking someone has the right to say what "decent men" should do...

By de Becker's theory, people should never get to know each other and embrace the possibility of finding a new friend or simply sharing some interesting moments and thoughts, except for:

- if the woman is with someone else

- if the woman approaches the men

- if the woman has an obvious need for someone to talk to her

Quite sad and dumb, if you ask me.

Dave1992 said:

jone70 said:

I'm with Carrie. When I'm out I do not want to be hassled - by anyone, but especially by men. As she said, women are constantly hit on (and harassed) and it gets really annoying. If some strange guy steps to me, I will not engage in a conversation and will probably be pretty rude/bitchy about getting away.

I just finished reading a book called "The Gift of Fear" that talks a lot about pre-indicators of violence and how to recognize them. Men who approach woman without knowing them should not be offended or "find it quite sad how many women are completely surprised, nervous or actually ignorant and mean when a man approaches them with a smile on his face and simply wants to talk." As the author, Gavin de Becker, writes, "A decent man would understand her reaction or, more likely, wouldn't have approached a woman alone in the first place, unless she really had some obvious need." To imply that a woman might be ignorant because she doesn't want to humor your interest in "pretty things" is ignorant, in my opinion.

In return, I find it actually to generalise and to be so judgmental, thinking someone has the right to say what "decent men" should do...

By de Becker's theory, people should never get to know each other and embrace the possibility of finding a new friend or simply sharing some interesting moments and thoughts, except for:

- if the woman is with someone else

- if the woman approaches the men

- if the woman has an obvious need for someone to talk to her

Quite sad and dumb, if you ask me.

You will never understand what it's like to be a woman and be constantly harassed by men; or to have to worry how a guy who hits on you, asks you on a date, etc. will react when you "reject" him. To get annoyed with women who do not want to talk to strange men shows either lack of empathy, naivity, or disregard for the feelings of others.

Also, perhaps you should read the entire book before you generalize and judge. de Becker is not saying that women should never talk to strange men; he talks about how to recognize indications that a person (stranger) may turn violent. It's a fact that men who wish to do harm to women have a set of techniques they employ as they hunt for their victims, one of which is approaching lone women. Not taking no for an answer when the woman indicates she does not wish to talk is another.

Do you have any girl friends? Ask them how they feel about being approached by strange men...

Dave1992 said:

jone70 said:

I'm with Carrie. When I'm out I do not want to be hassled - by anyone, but especially by men. As she said, women are constantly hit on (and harassed) and it gets really annoying. If some strange guy steps to me, I will not engage in a conversation and will probably be pretty rude/bitchy about getting away.

I just finished reading a book called "The Gift of Fear" that talks a lot about pre-indicators of violence and how to recognize them. Men who approach woman without knowing them should not be offended or "find it quite sad how many women are completely surprised, nervous or actually ignorant and mean when a man approaches them with a smile on his face and simply wants to talk." As the author, Gavin de Becker, writes, "A decent man would understand her reaction or, more likely, wouldn't have approached a woman alone in the first place, unless she really had some obvious need." To imply that a woman might be ignorant because she doesn't want to humor your interest in "pretty things" is ignorant, in my opinion.

In return, I find it actually to generalise and to be so judgmental, thinking someone has the right to say what "decent men" should do...

By de Becker's theory, people should never get to know each other and embrace the possibility of finding a new friend or simply sharing some interesting moments and thoughts, except for:

- if the woman is with someone else

- if the woman approaches the men

- if the woman has an obvious need for someone to talk to her

Quite sad and dumb, if you ask me.

Yeah, but don't you think it's simpler than that?

If someone doesn't really feel like talking to someone, should they be forced to do so? Why should they have to embrace your free attitude any more than you should embrace their cold distant attitude?

I am not saying "don't approach strangers" but when you approach someone you should be able to read their signals, whether they are positive or negative.

jone70 said:

Dave1992 said:

In return, I find it actually to generalise and to be so judgmental, thinking someone has the right to say what "decent men" should do...

By de Becker's theory, people should never get to know each other and embrace the possibility of finding a new friend or simply sharing some interesting moments and thoughts, except for:

- if the woman is with someone else

- if the woman approaches the men

- if the woman has an obvious need for someone to talk to her

Quite sad and dumb, if you ask me.

You will never understand what it's like to be a woman and be constantly harassed by men; or to have to worry how a guy who hits on you, asks you on a date, etc. will react when you "reject" him. To get annoyed with women who do not want to talk to strange men shows either lack of empathy, naivity, or disregard for the feelings of others.

Also, perhaps you should read the entire book before you generalize and judge. de Becker is not saying that women should never talk to strange men; he talks about how to recognize indications that a person (stranger) may turn violent. It's a fact that men who wish to do harm to women have a set of techniques they employ as they hunt for their victims, one of which is approaching lone women. Not taking no for an answer when the woman indicates she does not wish to talk is another.

Do you have any girl friends? Ask them how they feel about being approached by strange men...

I do not "get annoyed" with women who do not want to talk; I would just find it sad if people really had reasons to expect strange men to be dangerous. I have to and do accept that this is a perfect reason for women not to talk to strangers, but it doesn't mean I have to embrace it. I find it sad and disgusting that there's so many idiotic and evil people out there and feel terribly sorry for the women who have this right to be "afraid" (clumsy word, but you know what I mean).

Like I said, I don't have a problem with people not wanting to talk: "it's not difficult to simply say "these questions are too personal and I will not answer them". Then I would apologise and probably explain why I ask such questions, but never ask them again." And I will back off and never bother them again. I won't be annoyed, but I will find it sad and disappointing that some women have learned that it is better not to talk to strange men than to have an open heart and be happy about someone approaching you.

Anyway, I'm probably too much of an idealist...

It was you who decided to quote this line, so I reacted to that very line.

Yes, and I did ask my female friends. They say it depends. If someone approaches them the way I do, they would probably ask themselves why I do it, but they'd be happy I did, if they took the time to listen and to trust me. Actually, I made some of my best female friends by simply approaching them somewhere, when I saw them and felt some kind of connection, thinking them and me had the potential to develop a positive, mutual understanding and friendship.

[Edited 2/22/12 15:53pm]

NDRU said:

Dave1992 said:

In return, I find it actually to generalise and to be so judgmental, thinking someone has the right to say what "decent men" should do...

By de Becker's theory, people should never get to know each other and embrace the possibility of finding a new friend or simply sharing some interesting moments and thoughts, except for:

- if the woman is with someone else

- if the woman approaches the men

- if the woman has an obvious need for someone to talk to her

Quite sad and dumb, if you ask me.

Yeah, but don't you think it's simpler than that?

If someone doesn't really feel like talking to someone, should they be forced to do so? Why should they have to embrace your free attitude any more than you should embrace their cold distant attitude?

I am not saying "don't approach strangers" but when you approach someone you should be able to read their signals, whether they are positive or negative.

Like I explained earlier and quoted in my last post, I have no problem with people simply not wanting to talk or to be left alone. If someone says they are simply not in the mood to talk with a stranger, I will apologise and leave them alone (maybe, walking away, I will reassure them and say "I seriously didn't mean any harm and promise I just wanted to talk.").

In fact, I also quite often don't want to be talked to and I need to spend lots of time alone and then I don't want other people talking to me.

It's about intention and respect. If I'm not in the mood to be talked to and someone approaches me, I will take the time to tell them "I honestly find it nice of you to come over and talk to me and I appreaciate it, but right now I'm really not in the mood to talk to anyone. Sorry.". To me, that's perfectly plausible and acceptable.

It is also accetable if someone doesn't want to talk to you, because past experience (or books) have taught them that it is dangerous (and I will respect that either way), but that doesn't mean I can't find it sad and disappointing.

Dave1992 said:

NDRU said:

Yeah, but don't you think it's simpler than that?

If someone doesn't really feel like talking to someone, should they be forced to do so? Why should they have to embrace your free attitude any more than you should embrace their cold distant attitude?

I am not saying "don't approach strangers" but when you approach someone you should be able to read their signals, whether they are positive or negative.

Like I explained earlier and quoted in my last post, I have no problem with people simply not wanting to talk or to be left alone. If someone says they are simply not in the mood to talk with a stranger, I will apologise and leave them alone (maybe, walking away, I will reassure them and say "I seriously didn't mean any harm and promise I just wanted to talk.").

In fact, I also quite often don't want to be talked to and I need to spend lots of time alone and then I don't want other people talking to me.

It's about intention and respect. If I'm not in the mood to be talked to and someone approaches me, I will take the time to tell them "I honestly find it nice of you to come over and talk to me and I appreaciate it, but right now I'm really not in the mood to talk to anyone. Sorry.". To me, that's perfectly plausible and acceptable.

It is also accetable if someone doesn't want to talk to you, because past experience (or books) have taught them that it is dangerous (and I will respect that either way), but that doesn't mean I can't find it sad and disappointing.

fair enough!

depends on context and vibe. generally, i prefer to be left alone. usually, i've got my own train of thought to ride. but it's a case by case kind of thing. for example: yes to the kind fellow who chatted me up about clocks at the thrift store, no to the drunk, grabby asshole in the seat beside me on the plane.

If an attractive guy talked to me unsolicited, I would be suspicious and looking out for his group of buddies, probably behind a bush somewhere egging him on to get me to go out with him to the "bring an uggo" ball or some crap like that.

My general demeanour is distrusting and suspicious.

However, yesterday I knocked a can off the supermarket shelf and an attractive guy picked it up and handed it to me with a smile. See, that's OK. If he THEN talked to me, for example to complain about the line at the check-out, or something else contextual, he'd have the OK to say other stuff like ask me about my ipod. Although the does music make you cry question; it's possible my answer might make him not speak to me again

Deadcake said:

If an attractive guy talked to me unsolicited, I would be suspicious and looking out for his group of buddies, probably behind a bush somewhere egging him on to get me to go out with him to the "bring an uggo" ball or some crap like that.

My general demeanour is distrusting and suspicious.

However, yesterday I knocked a can off the supermarket shelf and an attractive guy picked it up and handed it to me with a smile. See, that's OK. If he THEN talked to me, for example to complain about the line at the check-out, or something else contextual, he'd have the OK to say other stuff like ask me about my ipod. Although the does music make you cry question; it's possible my answer might make him not speak to me again

That's what I find somehow sad and weird... I completely understand why you would be suspicious, but wouldn't this world be a much better place if you didn't have any reasons to be suspicious if someone walks over to talk to you and get to know you (assuming you have the time etc) and if it would be completely plausible that someone just might think you are an interesting person and that they might benefit on an emotional level from getting to know you because of your positive charisma?

The "does music make you cry?" was just an example. I would not ask this question any person, but I admit I will ask such questions to test people's borderlines. If someone tells me off immediately, I will apologise and openly tell them that this is my way of trying to get to know people and that I think it is the quickest way to understand someone else. How and if they react to a question like that is at least as important the potential answer.

jone70 said:

I'm with Carrie. When I'm out I do not want to be hassled - by anyone, but especially by men. As she said, women are constantly hit on (and harassed) and it gets really annoying. If some strange guy steps to me, I will not engage in a conversation and will probably be pretty rude/bitchy about getting away.

I just finished reading a book called "The Gift of Fear" that talks a lot about pre-indicators of violence and how to recognize them. Men who approach woman without knowing them should not be offended or "find it quite sad how many women are completely surprised, nervous or actually ignorant and mean when a man approaches them with a smile on his face and simply wants to talk." As the author, Gavin de Becker, writes, "A decent man would understand her reaction or, more likely, wouldn't have approached a woman alone in the first place, unless she really had some obvious need." To imply that a woman might be ignorant because she doesn't want to humor your interest in "pretty things" is ignorant, in my opinion.

What a coincidence - a friend recommended this book to me just an hour ago! I got paranoid for my daughter (she's 9 yrs old) by a show I saw on TV, about 18 yr old girls getting kidnapped. They just went on quick errands or were coming straight home from school. Heck, even 25 yr old, 35 yr old women get kidnapped/raped. So at what age can I let my daughter do things and go places by herself? Never? So my friend said, of course, she must become independent one day, must be allowed the freedoms of any adult, be able to go to the store, trips by herself, etc. - but that I should get this book and just teach her to be careful and trust her instincts.

My friend told me there's advice in the book that kids should go to a person in uniform when they're lost, and preferably to a woman. My friend said the book addresses the POV of a man who is offended by this advice, because he is a nice man and would help little kids. But the author points out that the kids wouldn't know that you happen to be nice, so the nice man needs to understand the POV of other people (esp. women and children), they will and should distrust you.

So Dave, the experience of being a woman is completely different from that of a man. Maybe when you have a daughter you'd understand. If you would try to see things from our perspective, you'd understand why many women do not wish to be approached by an unknown man. See the bolded quote above.

Deadcake said:

If an attractive guy talked to me unsolicited, I would be suspicious and looking out for his group of buddies, probably behind a bush somewhere egging him on to get me to go out with him to the "bring an uggo" ball or some crap like that.

My general demeanour is distrusting and suspicious.

However, yesterday I knocked a can off the supermarket shelf and an attractive guy picked it up and handed it to me with a smile. See, that's OK. If he THEN talked to me, for example to complain about the line at the check-out, or something else contextual, he'd have the OK to say other stuff like ask me about my ipod. Although the does music make you cry question; it's possible my answer might make him not speak to me again

Yeah, I feel really awkward just talking to a stranger out of the blue, but if there is the slightest opening like this, it's a million times easier.

artist76 said:

jone70 said:

I'm with Carrie. When I'm out I do not want to be hassled - by anyone, but especially by men. As she said, women are constantly hit on (and harassed) and it gets really annoying. If some strange guy steps to me, I will not engage in a conversation and will probably be pretty rude/bitchy about getting away.

I just finished reading a book called "The Gift of Fear" that talks a lot about pre-indicators of violence and how to recognize them. Men who approach woman without knowing them should not be offended or "find it quite sad how many women are completely surprised, nervous or actually ignorant and mean when a man approaches them with a smile on his face and simply wants to talk." As the author, Gavin de Becker, writes, "A decent man would understand her reaction or, more likely, wouldn't have approached a woman alone in the first place, unless she really had some obvious need." To imply that a woman might be ignorant because she doesn't want to humor your interest in "pretty things" is ignorant, in my opinion.

What a coincidence - a friend recommended this book to me just an hour ago! I got paranoid for my daughter (she's 9 yrs old) by a show I saw on TV, about 18 yr old girls getting kidnapped. They just went on quick errands or were coming straight home from school. Heck, even 25 yr old, 35 yr old women get kidnapped/raped. So at what age can I let my daughter do things and go places by herself? Never? So my friend said, of course, she must become independent one day, must be allowed the freedoms of any adult, be able to go to the store, trips by herself, etc. - but that I should get this book and just teach her to be careful and trust her instincts.

My friend told me there's advice in the book that kids should go to a person in uniform when they're lost, and preferably to a woman. My friend said the book addresses the POV of a man who is offended by this advice, because he is a nice man and would help little kids. But the author points out that the kids wouldn't know that you happen to be nice, so the nice man needs to understand the POV of other people (esp. women and children), they will and should distrust you.

So Dave, the experience of being a woman is completely different from that of a man. Maybe when you have a daughter you'd understand. If you would try to see things from our perspective, you'd understand why many women do not wish to be approached by an unknown man. See the bolded quote above.

I don't know whether you just didn't read through the thread or whether I must rephrase this again, but nevermind, I'll do it:

I understand why many women do not wish to be approached. And I do not need to have a daughter to understand that

I just find it sad that it is necessary for people not to trust others (especially men?). It's a matter of principle.

Of course it depends on when, where, who and how, but how do you basically react?

It always absolutely depends on the person. I'm not ashamed to say that in a split second I will size a person up, make a judgement. If he's attractive and friendly, if he's hot but obviously a douche, if he's just an average dude, if he's hideous - those will all influence how I will react.

Is the first thing that comes to your mind that his goal is to have sex with you?

Yup. It might not be their goal because they might not think it will actually happen....but yeah, men are motivated by sex. Or at least getting a little attention by someone they find cute and or interesting.

Does your self-defence-mechanism react?

If we are alone, yes....always. Doesn't matter what he looks like....I'm on guard and even nervous.

Are you open to strangers talking to you and don't suspect anything "dangerous"?

I'm not really open to it because I'm not a fan of mindless chit chat but I can deal with it.

Then: when, where, who and how does it have to happen in order to make you completely open and simply up for a chat? Not up for getting laid or anything, simply able to answer questions and be interested in asking questions too, in a friendly manner.

Honestly, I need to be attracted to them in some way for any of that to happen. I'm not like this with people I meet via friends, etc...but I am with strangers.

Dave, please tell me you have never walked up to a woman and said "It puts the lotion in the basket"

Genesia said:

I hear Ted Bundy was a handsome, outwardly pleasant guy.

Yeah, totally.

Genesia said:

I hear Ted Bundy was a handsome, outwardly pleasant guy.

Agreed.

But is it fair to say all strangers you meet are psychopaths with a very shiny "normal" veneer? Some might actually be nice people looking for companionship. If we were all afraid of each other, no one would ever come together, have friendships, relationships, marriages, or ever families.

Just a thought.

when in the past some random bloke approached me & tried to 'connect', i married him!! snatched him up so i did! bagged me a beauty

JustErin said:

Genesia said:

I hear Ted Bundy was a handsome, outwardly pleasant guy.

Yeah, totally.

So thats why women like jerks!!!!

Dave1992 said:

artist76 said:

What a coincidence - a friend recommended this book to me just an hour ago! I got paranoid for my daughter (she's 9 yrs old) by a show I saw on TV, about 18 yr old girls getting kidnapped. They just went on quick errands or were coming straight home from school. Heck, even 25 yr old, 35 yr old women get kidnapped/raped. So at what age can I let my daughter do things and go places by herself? Never? So my friend said, of course, she must become independent one day, must be allowed the freedoms of any adult, be able to go to the store, trips by herself, etc. - but that I should get this book and just teach her to be careful and trust her instincts.

My friend told me there's advice in the book that kids should go to a person in uniform when they're lost, and preferably to a woman. My friend said the book addresses the POV of a man who is offended by this advice, because he is a nice man and would help little kids. But the author points out that the kids wouldn't know that you happen to be nice, so the nice man needs to understand the POV of other people (esp. women and children), they will and should distrust you.

So Dave, the experience of being a woman is completely different from that of a man. Maybe when you have a daughter you'd understand. If you would try to see things from our perspective, you'd understand why many women do not wish to be approached by an unknown man. See the bolded quote above.

I don't know whether you just didn't read through the thread or whether I must rephrase this again, but nevermind, I'll do it:

I understand why many women do not wish to be approached. And I do not need to have a daughter to understand that

I just find it sad that it is necessary for people not to trust others (especially men?). It's a matter of principle.

Yes, it is sad that people screw each other over and that men brutalize women.

JustErin said:

but yeah, men are motivated by sex. Or at least getting a little attention by someone they find cute and or interesting.[/b]

The rest I completely understand and support, but this I find a bit offensive and, even though I know it will not make you change your opinion, I feel it is my obligation to tell you you're absolutely wrong. Men, just like women, can also simply enjoy affection and closeness without being motivated by sex or always needing attention. Actually, I never thought there was that much of a difference between men and women in general, but anyway. I guarantee you that many men I know, including myself, are not motivated by sex 24/7. I'd find that extremely hard to handle and to concentrate on. In between, I really do enjoy and need honest and platonic friendship. I also don't need "acknowledgement" and attention the way you described it. Sure, I like knowing that someone I look up to also respects me, but you make it sound as if everything men do is motivated by the satisfaction they get when someone pats them on the head. That's a bit cruel, don't you think?

lust said:

Dave, please tell me you have never walked up to a woman and said "It puts the lotion in the basket"

I've never said anything like that, I'm not a criminal, I'm not a creep, I'm not a douche bag and I'm not a bad person. Contrary to rumour, I can actually be quite nice and lead a respectful, polite conversion. It might not be a "normal" conversation per se, but respectful and polite nevertheless.

Hmm, maybe part of your problem is that you might come off as being patronizing toward women? Pretty much all of the women on this thread are quite intelligent (based purely on their posts in the org; don't know any personally), yet your responses to them have been patronizing - like you see some "bigger truth about life" that they don't/can't/won't see because those poor souls "let fear dictate their lives" or some shit like that.

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

Genesia said:

I hear Ted Bundy was a handsome, outwardly pleasant guy.

Agreed.

But is it fair to say all strangers you meet are psychopaths with a very shiny "normal" veneer? Some might actually be nice people looking for companionship. If we were all afraid of each other, no one would ever come together, have friendships, relationships, marriages, or ever families.

Just a thought.

Very true.

Putting all handsome and pleasant guys into the box with a sick and bad man is very over-the-top. I mean, I get the reference and he is a good example for why people should be careful, but I find it extremely sad that he has to be. I don't want former mass murderers and rapists to control my actions and to decide whether I will talk to a person or not... but like I said, I'm probably too much of an idealist!

artist76 said:

Hmm, maybe part of your problem is that you might come off as being patronizing toward women? Pretty much all of the women on this thread are quite intelligent (based purely on their posts in the org; don't know any personally), yet your responses to them have been patronizing - like you see some "bigger truth about life" that they don't/can't/won't see because those poor souls "let fear dictate their lives" or some shit like that.

I certainly don't know any "bigger truth about life" nor have I ever indicated that I believe I do, but I'm quite sure I know some "bigger truth" about what I say and think and you're absolutely wrong in that respect.

How did you jump to that conclusion? Where did I indicate I knew more? Where was I being patronising (in fact, I believe I was quite respectful towards all the people here, whereas some statements from them might be considered as rude)?

Read my posts again, please. You will find there really is no smart-alecky energy in them. I seriously don't even know of what examples you might be thinking of.

I'm actually a bit upset about such a statement, just like I was upset about Genesia's premature conclusion that I was mysoginic. Actually, that's patronizing, if you ask me.

Dave1992 said:

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

Agreed.

But is it fair to say all strangers you meet are psychopaths with a very shiny "normal" veneer? Some might actually be nice people looking for companionship. If we were all afraid of each other, no one would ever come together, have friendships, relationships, marriages, or ever families.

Just a thought.

Very true.

Putting all handsome and pleasant guys into the box with a sick and bad man is very over-the-top. I mean, I get the reference and he is a good example for why people should be careful, but I find it extremely sad that he has to be. I don't want former mass murderers and rapists to control my actions and to decide whether I will talk to a person or not... but like I said, I'm probably too much of an idealist!

It is very sad that we don't trust anyone. And most people are not going to hurt you but it doesn't matter anymore.

Being a man, it's not just women who don't trust me for their own safety, but I cannot be trusted around children either.

CarrieMpls said:

If I am out and about in public, I don't want anyone talking to me, usually.

I don't like strange men talking to me for any reason. I am likely to act cold and distant (though generally polite) and if you persist in trying to start a conversation with me despite my demeanor, I'm going to think you don't understand normal social queues. And that's the problem. Women are hit on (or spare-changed, or otherwise bothered) so often by men who don't get it that they ruin it for the men who are probably "normal" and/or mean no harm.

At least that's the way I see it.

Now, if I've seen you around the office or neighborhood or you're in a class with me or something (so you're not a complete stranger) and you catch me in just the right mood I might be willing to entertain a handful of pleasantries exchanged.

This is the way I see most women view it.