Recently, The New York Times posted an opinion piece that I am extremely interested in. I can't say exactly why it's stuck with me, but most of it is that I find it so sad and I have a lot of pity for its subject, Michael Glatze. Perhaps it is condescending or just wrong-headed for me to have pity for him--I'll own that, but it doesn't change the fact that I do feel pity for him.

I've read through this article three times...mostly because I'm so fascinated by so many parts of it. I was a fan of XY magazine when it first came out, although I can't say I remember this guy from it. I've also known the really adamant, radical gay guys (and women) before and I find it so interesting that he was one of them...and now is not. And of course I do not believe in the whole ex-gay movement, so it fascinates me that one such as him could become part of it.

I thought it might be an interesting discussion here. So let's see.

The article is way too long to quote here in its entirety. If you're interested, please go to the link to read the full text.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/19/magazine/my-ex-gay-friend.html

One Saturday afternoon last winter, I drove north on Route 85 through the rolling rangeland of southeastern Wyoming. I was headed to a small town north of Cheyenne to see an old friend and colleague named Michael Glatze. We worked together 12 years ago at XY, a San Francisco-based national magazine for young gay men, back when we were young gay men ourselves.

Though only a year removed from Dartmouth when he arrived at XY, Michael had seemingly read every gay book ever written. While I was busy trying to secure a boyfriend, he was busy contemplating queer theory, marching in gay rights rallies and urging young people to celebrate (not just accept) their same-sex attractions. Michael was devoted to helping gay youth, and he was particularly affected by the letters the magazine received regularly from teenagers who were rejected by their religious families. “Christian fundamentalists should burn in hell!” he told me once, slamming his fist on his desk. I had never met anyone so sure of himself.

Many young gay men looked up to him. He and his boyfriend at the time, Ben, who also worked at the magazine, made a handsome pair — but their appeal went deeper. On weekends we would go to raves together, and I would watch as gay boys gravitated toward the couple. Michael and Ben seemed unburdened (by shame, by self-doubt) and unapologetically pursued what the writer Paul Monette called the uniquely gay experience of “flagrant joy.” But unlike some of our friends who rode the flagrant joy train all the way to rehab, Michael and Ben rarely seemed out of control. There was a balance — a wisdom — to their quest for intense, authentic experience. Together they seemed to have figured out how to be young, gay and happy.

I thought about those times as I pulled my rental car into the Wyoming town where Michael now lives. A lot had happened in the decade since we last saw each other: he and Ben started a new gay magazine (Young Gay America, or Y.G.A.); they traveled the country for a documentary about gay teenagers; and Michael was fast becoming the leading voice for gay youth until the day, in July 2007, when he announced that he was no longer gay.

“Homosexuality came easy to me, because I was already weak,” he wrote in the opening line of an article for the far-right Web site, WorldNetDaily.com. He went on to renounce his work at XY and Y.G.A. “Homosexuality, delivered to young minds, is by its very nature pornographic,” he claimed. In a second WorldNetDaily article a week later, he said that he was “repulsed to think about homosexuality” and that he was “going to do what I can to fight it.”

At our appointed meeting time in Wyoming, I parked my rental car in front of a red, saloon-style grocery store and cafe that sits across the street from the Bible school where Michael was in his first year. A minute later I spotted him in my rearview mirror. He was walking toward the cafe, holding something that I couldn’t make out. I stepped out of my car and waved to him. He looked the same as I remembered — tall, lean, blond, boyish and handsome in a Nordic ski instructor kind of way. I was nervous, but as he approached I decided to lean in for a hug. Michael, though, pre-emptively stuck out his right hand. “Hello, Benoit,” he said, standing stiff and upright, clutching what I could now see was a Bible.

Though Michael had agreed to let me visit and write about him, he was skeptical about my motivations. “Why are you here?” he asked minutes after we sat down in the cafe, which was decorated with Christmas lights and staffed by a young waiter attending the Bible school.

It was a good question. Had part of me come to “save” my old friend from the clutches of the Christian right? Though I don’t doubt that sexual attraction can evolve, I was skeptical of Michael’s claim of heterosexuality — and I rejected his argument that “homosexuality prevents us from finding our true self within.” Besides, I had a hard time believing that Michael’s “true self” was a fundamentalist Christian who writes derogatorily about being gay. But whatever aspirations I had about persuading Michael to join the ranks of ex-ex-gays, they were no match for his eagerness to save me.

“God loves you more than any dude will ever love you,” he told me at the cafe. “Don’t put your faith in some man, some flesh. That’s what we do when we’re stuck in the gay identity, when we’re stuck in that cave. We go from guy to guy, looking for someone to love us and make us feel O.K., but God is so much better than all the other masters out there.”

Michael, who is 36, now often refers to gay life as a kind of cave — or cage. In an open letter to Ricky Martin, published on WorldNetDaily after Martin came out, he wrote, “Homosexuality is a cage in which you are trapped in an endless cycle of constantly wanting more — sexually — that you can never actually receive, constantly full of emptiness, trying to justify your twisted actions by politics and ‘feel good’ language.”

What's with this ex-shit...

[Edited 6/19/11 15:00pm]

Denise Matthews (formerly Vanity) now preaches the same thing about heterosexuality, so who knows? Both sound like identity crises to me.

Sounds like folks who can't think for themselves so they let whoever has an opinion about them affect them to the point where they try to claim they're "cured" or "born again". Just bullshit to cover up whatever demons they're really hiding.

Timmy84 said:

Sounds like folks who can't think for themselves so they let whoever has an opinion about them affect them to the point where they try to claim they're "cured" or "born again". Just bullshit to cover up whatever demons they're really hiding.

I don't necessarily disagree with this, but in the case of THIS guy, I think there's a little bit more to it. However, the fact that he was SO adamant in his beliefs when he was a practicing gay makes me think he was shouting at himself as much as he was shouting at his opposition. Now that he has reversed his stance, I think he is still doing it.

Efan said:

Timmy84 said:

Sounds like folks who can't think for themselves so they let whoever has an opinion about them affect them to the point where they try to claim they're "cured" or "born again". Just bullshit to cover up whatever demons they're really hiding.

I don't necessarily disagree with this, but in the case of THIS guy, I think there's a little bit more to it. However, the fact that he was SO adamant in his beliefs when he was a practicing gay makes me think he was shouting at himself as much as he was shouting at his opposition. Now that he has reversed his stance, I think he is still doing it.

He's probably confused any fucking ways. But he can take his preaching somewhere else. But I know the ones who preach like that either pro or "ex" are negative towards THEMSELVES.

Timmy84 said:

Efan said:

I don't necessarily disagree with this, but in the case of THIS guy, I think there's a little bit more to it. However, the fact that he was SO adamant in his beliefs when he was a practicing gay makes me think he was shouting at himself as much as he was shouting at his opposition. Now that he has reversed his stance, I think he is still doing it.

He's probably confused any fucking ways. But he can take his preaching somewhere else. But I know the ones who preach like that either pro or "ex" are negative towards THEMSELVES.

Zealotry on either side is a very dangerous thing. And often a mask for deeper problems.

Efan said:

Timmy84 said:

He's probably confused any fucking ways. But he can take his preaching somewhere else. But I know the ones who preach like that either pro or "ex" are negative towards THEMSELVES.

Zealotry on either side is a very dangerous thing. And often a mask for deeper problems.

Exactly. Can't stand zealots.

I'm interested in how he changed his opinion on sexual orientation.

Did he have a crisis and at that moment someone came into his life, who told him, religion was the answer and his "no religious" behavior is causing his suffering?

That seems to happen a lot. In stead of grieving, learning and self confrontation, there will be a person with the solution to everything; the bible.

It sounds as if his religion is a way to avoid his real personal issues.

That goes for a lot of people. By following strict religious guidelines from a preacher, one can avoid oneself.

dJJ said:

Did he have a crisis and at that moment someone came into his life, who told him, religion was the answer and his "no religious" behavior is causing his suffering?

He had a health scare.

HohnerCatcher said:

Denise Matthews (formerly Vanity) now preaches the same thing about heterosexuality, so who knows? Both sound like identity crises to me.

What do you mean she preaches about heterosexuality? You mean she's touting being celibate?

Maybe he was closeted all along?

“God loves you more than any dude will ever love you,” he told me at the cafe. “Don’t put your faith in some man, some flesh. That’s what we do when we’re stuck in the gay identity, when we’re stuck in that cave. We go from guy to guy, looking for someone to love us and make us feel O.K., but God is so much better than all the other masters out there.”

but what about all the hetero men going from WOMAN to WOMAN looking for love?

This argument makes no sense, unless he is renouncing sexuality altogether and becoming ASEXUAL or perhaps he is now jacking off to the lord only?

^ That's what it's looking like to me. Like he's giving up sex for good because sex is bad to him because of whatever fable he read in the Bible (I read, they tell a lot of great tales) but that's another topic for another day.

ZombieKitten said:

“God loves you more than any dude will ever love you,” he told me at the cafe. “Don’t put your faith in some man, some flesh. That’s what we do when we’re stuck in the gay identity, when we’re stuck in that cave. We go from guy to guy, looking for someone to love us and make us feel O.K., but God is so much better than all the other masters out there.”

but what about all the hetero men going from WOMAN to WOMAN looking for love?

This argument makes no sense, unless he is renouncing sexuality altogether and becoming ASEXUAL or perhaps he is now jacking off to the lord only?

I thought the same thing. That whole quote has nothing to do with being gay. But it speaks a lot to the mindset of how he approached sex, I think.

Efan said:

ZombieKitten said:

but what about all the hetero men going from WOMAN to WOMAN looking for love?

This argument makes no sense, unless he is renouncing sexuality altogether and becoming ASEXUAL or perhaps he is now jacking off to the lord only?

I thought the same thing. That whole quote has nothing to do with being gay. But it speaks a lot to the mindset of how he approached sex, I think.

I'm thinking whoever did this piece probably said "ex-gay" to shock folks. It don't even sound like he's ex-gay, more like he's celibate but for religious reasons.

Timmy84 said:

Efan said:

I thought the same thing. That whole quote has nothing to do with being gay. But it speaks a lot to the mindset of how he approached sex, I think.

I'm thinking whoever did this piece probably said "ex-gay" to shock folks. It don't even sound like he's ex-gay, more like he's celibate but for religious reasons.

Actually, the person who wrote (and/or the editor at the Times) went to great lengths to make sure Michael's viewpoint was well represented. Michael describes himself as ex-gay, so that's what they went with. One of the things I like about the article is that they did, at least in my view, give Michael a fair shake.

Efan said:

Timmy84 said:

I'm thinking whoever did this piece probably said "ex-gay" to shock folks. It don't even sound like he's ex-gay, more like he's celibate but for religious reasons.

Actually, the person who wrote (and/or the editor at the Times) went to great lengths to make sure Michael's viewpoint was well represented. Michael describes himself as ex-gay, so that's what they went with. One of the things I like about the article is that they did, at least in my view, give Michael a fair shake.

Whatever reasons I hope he's happy, if not and he's back in the news talking about a "relapse" I stopped feeling sorry for him. I don't know how church is supposed to free you or whatever but good luck for him I guess. I don't know. Every time I read stories on that, I'm basically saying under my breath, BULLSHIT.

PenelopePaige said:

HohnerCatcher said:

Denise Matthews (formerly Vanity) now preaches the same thing about heterosexuality, so who knows? Both sound like identity crises to me.

What do you mean she preaches about heterosexuality? You mean she's touting being celibate?

Yeah, it's like, they all have issues with sex addiction or something because they turn to "God" and try to become asexual or celibate, opposite to whatever their preference used to be, gay or straight.

That's fine if they have such an issue with it and their "solution" works for them, but I hate when those people start preaching.

HohnerCatcher said:

PenelopePaige said:

What do you mean she preaches about heterosexuality? You mean she's touting being celibate?

Yeah, it's like, they all have issues with sex addiction or something because they turn to "God" and try to become asexual or celibate, opposite to whatever their preference used to be, gay or straight.

That's fine if they have such an issue with it and their "solution" works for them, but I hate when those people start preaching.

exactly, not everyone else HAS problems to the extent they do, and don't really require that degree of "salvation"

ZombieKitten said:

HohnerCatcher said:

Yeah, it's like, they all have issues with sex addiction or something because they turn to "God" and try to become asexual or celibate, opposite to whatever their preference used to be, gay or straight.

That's fine if they have such an issue with it and their "solution" works for them, but I hate when those people start preaching.

exactly, not everyone else HAS problems to the extent they do, and don't really require that degree of "salvation"

It's like the ex-alcoholics that can never have a sip because it would trigger old habits most people don't have.

OK, so this struck a slight chord with me as well.

When I was had gotten out of the military, a friend of mine had gotten out about 2 months before I did.

Anyways, this buddy of mine is gay--not just bi or queer, but completely gay. He grew up in North Carolina in a small seaside community near Newburn (sp?), and was greatly affected by religious teachings (southern Baptist). His faith was so strong that once, he would not get out of his car, when we drove up to a Buddhist Temple in our city.

Anyways, he ended up moving to North Carolina, marrying a woman, have two daughters, and living a straight life----but, I know him inside and out, and I know that he's completely gay. We had a falling out of sorts not because I wanted him for myself (I was actually unhappily involved at this time), but because I thought that marrying a woman who you don't love was sort of cruel. I mean, nothing about that marriage is real, is it? She's not in love with someone real--she's in love with an illusion. She's given him children and she's given him the last 7 years of her life---basically she's spent her youth on somebody who doesn't really love her the way she needs him to.

Now, he's a great actor. But, what kills me about the entire thing is how vile he thinks his sexuality really is, and how willing he is to paint an illusion to combat that.

Eventually the levee is going to break. I told him years ago that eventually he'd burst, but I had no intention of being there for him when it did--I simply can't bear the thought of what that woman's life is going to end up being like when the day of truth happens. She'll be crushed....older....with kids. Who deserves that?

Sad, really.

.

[Edited 6/20/11 2:50am]

imago said:

OK, so this struck a slight chord with me as well.

When I was had gotten out of the military, a friend of mine had gotten out about 2 months before I did.

Anyways, this buddy of mine is gay--not just bi or queer, but completely gay. He grew up in North Carolina in a small seaside community near Newburn (sp?), and was greatly affected by religious teachings (southern Baptist). His faith was so strong that once, he would not get out of his car, when we drove up to a Buddhist Temple in our city.

Anyways, he ended up moving to North Carolina, marrying a woman, have two daughters, and living a straight life----but, I know him inside and out, and I know that he's completely gay. We had a falling out of sorts not because I wanted him for myself (I was actually unhappily involved at this time), but because I thought that marrying a woman who you don't love was sort of cruel. I mean, nothing about that marriage is real, is it? She's not in love with someone real--she's in love with an illusion. She's given him children and she's given him the last 7 years of her life---basically she's spent her youth on somebody who doesn't really love her the way she needs him to.

Now, he's a great actor. But, what kills me about the entire thing is how vile he thinks his sexuality really is, and how willing he is to paint an illusion to combat that.

Eventually the levee is going to break. I told him years ago that eventually he'd burst, but I had no intention of being there for him when it did--I simply can't bear the thought of what that woman's life is going to end up being like when the day of truth happens. She'll be crushed....older....with kids. Who deserves that?

Sad, really.

.

[Edited 6/20/11 2:50am]

That's just tragic all round.

Fauxie said:

imago said:

OK, so this struck a slight chord with me as well.

When I was had gotten out of the military, a friend of mine had gotten out about 2 months before I did.

Anyways, this buddy of mine is gay--not just bi or queer, but completely gay. He grew up in North Carolina in a small seaside community near Newburn (sp?), and was greatly affected by religious teachings (southern Baptist). His faith was so strong that once, he would not get out of his car, when we drove up to a Buddhist Temple in our city.

Anyways, he ended up moving to North Carolina, marrying a woman, have two daughters, and living a straight life----but, I know him inside and out, and I know that he's completely gay. We had a falling out of sorts not because I wanted him for myself (I was actually unhappily involved at this time), but because I thought that marrying a woman who you don't love was sort of cruel. I mean, nothing about that marriage is real, is it? She's not in love with someone real--she's in love with an illusion. She's given him children and she's given him the last 7 years of her life---basically she's spent her youth on somebody who doesn't really love her the way she needs him to.

Now, he's a great actor. But, what kills me about the entire thing is how vile he thinks his sexuality really is, and how willing he is to paint an illusion to combat that.

Eventually the levee is going to break. I told him years ago that eventually he'd burst, but I had no intention of being there for him when it did--I simply can't bear the thought of what that woman's life is going to end up being like when the day of truth happens. She'll be crushed....older....with kids. Who deserves that?

Sad, really.

.

[Edited 6/20/11 2:50am]

That's just tragic all round.

Though having said that, what if he never 'bursts' to his dying day? It'd be a massive betrayal, but if he's a good husband and father in many ways and his wife never knows the harm would really only be to himself, no? He could effectively live a life of a very good husband, better than many straight guys she could've been with. Still very sad for him, but a bit different. I don't know though if it's possible. Is his bursting from keeping the secret inevitable?

Fauxie said:

Fauxie said:

That's just tragic all round.

Though having said that, what if he never 'bursts' to his dying day? It'd be a massive betrayal, but if he's a good husband and father in many ways and his wife never knows the harm would really only be to himself, no? He could effectively live a life of a very good husband, better than many straight guys she could've been with. Still very sad for him, but a bit different. I don't know though if it's possible. Is his bursting from keeping the secret inevitable?

It's completely inevitable.

I told him that he'd give me head before the end of a month's time, and it happened.

I told him he's end up abusing and ignoring his new peg dog--and he did.

He's very predictable. He over compensates for his sexuality by being a 'winner', but this

causing him to be impulsive and self-centric. He's not living the life he chose because

of 'duty' to his religion, but the need to be admired and loved.

See, I picked up on his sexuality about 20 minutes into to talking for him for the

first time at great length. Gay men have eyes that betray all manner of things.

This is lacking in bi men (some bi men), but not in gay men. It's very easy

for me to read them. I can know within about 2 minutes whether there's

the potential for having sex with them or not--WIth him it took a bit longer...20 minutes.

He's admitted that I was the only person in his life that ever understood him. And I know

this to be true.

Oh, and he's a total bottom...the levee's gonna burst.

imago said:

Fauxie said:

Though having said that, what if he never 'bursts' to his dying day? It'd be a massive betrayal, but if he's a good husband and father in many ways and his wife never knows the harm would really only be to himself, no? He could effectively live a life of a very good husband, better than many straight guys she could've been with. Still very sad for him, but a bit different. I don't know though if it's possible. Is his bursting from keeping the secret inevitable?

It's completely inevitable.

I told him that he'd give me head before the end of a month's time, and it happened.

I told him he's end up abusing and ignoring his new peg dog--and he did.

He's very predictable. He over compensates for his sexuality by being a 'winner', but this

causing him to be impulsive and self-centric. He's not living the life he chose because

of 'duty' to his religion, but the need to be admired and loved.

See, I picked up on his sexuality about 20 minutes into to talking for him for the

first time at great length. Gay men have eyes that betray all manner of things.

This is lacking in bi men (some bi men), but not in gay men. It's very easy

for me to read them. I can know within about 2 minutes whether there's

the potential for having sex with them or not--WIth him it took a bit longer...20 minutes.

He's admitted that I was the only person in his life that ever understood him. And I know

this to be true.

Oh, and he's a total bottom...the levee's gonna burst.

Interesting. And a damn shame.

So gay men have a 'tell'?

if i was versed enough in the gay culture i would comment....is doesnt seem like i know enough to comment. i've been to gay places cause i wanted hot sex from gay men, but something about the culture, language or my lack of that would turn them off... It seems like a culture one has to be totally committed to. is that true??

[Edited 6/20/11 5:08am]

myfavorite said:

if i was versed enough in the gay culture i would comment....is doesnt seem like i know enough to comment. i've been to gay places cause i wanted hot sex from gay men, but something about the culture, language or my lack of that would turn them off... It seems like a culture one has to be totally committed to. is that true??

[Edited 6/20/11 5:08am]

Ummm... Im gonna say what turned them off was your VAGINA!

tinaz said:

myfavorite said:

if i was versed enough in the gay culture i would comment....is doesnt seem like i know enough to comment. i've been to gay places cause i wanted hot sex from gay men, but something about the culture, language or my lack of that would turn them off... It seems like a culture one has to be totally committed to. is that true??

[Edited 6/20/11 5:08am]

Ummm... Im gonna say what turned them off was your VAGINA!

Yes, this is definitely a case where you shouldn't beat yourself up over your culture or language.

imago said:

OK, so this struck a slight chord with me as well.

When I was had gotten out of the military, a friend of mine had gotten out about 2 months before I did.

Anyways, this buddy of mine is gay--not just bi or queer, but completely gay. He grew up in North Carolina in a small seaside community near Newburn (sp?), and was greatly affected by religious teachings (southern Baptist). His faith was so strong that once, he would not get out of his car, when we drove up to a Buddhist Temple in our city.

Anyways, he ended up moving to North Carolina, marrying a woman, have two daughters, and living a straight life----but, I know him inside and out, and I know that he's completely gay. We had a falling out of sorts not because I wanted him for myself (I was actually unhappily involved at this time), but because I thought that marrying a woman who you don't love was sort of cruel. I mean, nothing about that marriage is real, is it? She's not in love with someone real--she's in love with an illusion. She's given him children and she's given him the last 7 years of her life---basically she's spent her youth on somebody who doesn't really love her the way she needs him to.

Now, he's a great actor. But, what kills me about the entire thing is how vile he thinks his sexuality really is, and how willing he is to paint an illusion to combat that.

Eventually the levee is going to break. I told him years ago that eventually he'd burst, but I had no intention of being there for him when it did--I simply can't bear the thought of what that woman's life is going to end up being like when the day of truth happens. She'll be crushed....older....with kids. Who deserves that?

Sad, really.

.

[Edited 6/20/11 2:50am]

I was at a party this weekend--a big grill-out at a friend's place where a lot of people spent several hours. One couple I had never met before came, and it was immediately clear to me that the guy was gay. I'm not one of those who thinks everyone is gay, but he totally set off my gaydar. His wife was a very nice lady, very smart and interesting, and the three of us talked for a while and for a bit I thought, Okay, maybe they have an arrangement, a really good friendship, possibly even a soulful and even sexual connection. Sometimes life is strange like that and I didn't want to judge anymore than I already had.

But after they left, my friend (the hostess) told me the "real" deal--how mean the guy was to his wife, how she supports him financially, how she puts up with a ridiculous amount of crap. It was all total gossip and probably none of my business, but still...it was incredibly sad to me that this very nice woman felt something was missing enough in her life that she had to go through with the marriage despite everything. I don't know what's in it for either one of them, to be honest.