Oh my goodness

JustErin said:

You didn't read the letter. I know this because I do believe you're smarter than you look...and act...and sound and as such a smart person, there's no way you'd have labelled someone "totally sane" that advocated violence and the murder of innocent people.

Which is exactly what Stack did in his letter.

RodeoSchro said:

Whatever, dude, whatever.

I read the letter and I think it's just time for you to just admit that my opinion is not the same as yours and call it a day.

This Stack or Steck guy more than likely killed somebody because there is one employee unaccounted for... and they say his/her chances don't look good.

Plus, Stack sent one other person to the burn care unit in San Antonio. The other guy was just released, and he went to church right away to pray.. I'm not kidding. And I'm not make light of his reaction either.

The thing is that this guy lived in a really nice home to have so many financial crises! He owned damn plane, ya'll. How many of you all own a damn plane??? I don't even know anybody who owns a damn plane, do you?

But yet he writes this rambling letter how he's been treated unfairly? Dayum... he own(ed) a damn plane--which he used to hit a damn building.. and he's been treated unfairly? He lived in a nice upper class neighborhood--in a nice house.. which he promptly burned to the ground because he had been treated unfairly?

Some of his "rant" well.. it's definitely frustrating.. for all of us.. some more than others.. But we don't go crashinig our cars (or bicycles) into the damn IRS office because we've been treated unfairly. (I don't have a plane--will never have plane... )

Boo hoo... rich,Mr Stack. upper class fat cat--living beyond your means--.. you were deliquent on taxes in Cali and the IRS was finally catching up with your ass.

Take yourself out if you can't handle the mess you made for yourself. And putting your new wife and child into jeopardy by burning down your nice two-story home! They're over at a neighbors house right now after the firemen rescued them. But dayum attacking IRS employees who don't own planes.. who are just probably earning a middle class paycheck for doing grunt work.. Pathetic.

Yeah.. he made a statement alright. He owned a damn plane... you guys. What they hell? He wasn't living in poverty.. never had been from what I can tell.

He's a domestic terrorist.. plain and simple--with.. a really nice life style.
He's no different than Timothy McVee. Stack or Steck--whatever the hell his name was just a little more spontaneous and didn't take-out as many people.
[Edited 2/18/10 16:09pm]

The guy's observations sound sane in the letter, but his emotional reaction and his strategy for coping are not very wise or sane! I mean if you hated an unjust King, what good is setting yourself on fire and running in and hugging the king's servants in an outlying village? Especially when you have decent assets yourself (like a home, plane, car, etc).

This is very much in the flavor of the the Oklahoma (domestic born) terrorism bombing, but done in the style of the 911 acts.

What was his family situation with the wife and daughter?

ufoclub said:

it's an incredibly selfish act, pointless too, since now his family won't get life insurance or have his help, plus he hurt innocent people, and he is not going to change a damn thing about government or the IRS!

ufoclub said:

He'd just been married recently--second marriage. I'm not sure about the daughter--if it was his or not. Right now.. it appears they had a fight.. but he had been mad..in more ways than one--for a while.

He had his plane at the Georgetown airport..flew into North Austin--then into the building.. There's a lot of shopping around that area.

Hey.. somebody's car was hit with debris while driving on Mopac! Yeah.. the driver was treated on the scene and released. His/her car is still sitting there with debris on top of it!

There was this window repair guy who just happened to be in the neighborhood.. He saw the whole thing... drove to the building and saved some people because he had those really long-reaching ladder.

It was just lucky.. more people weren't injured. Apparently... some in the building saw the plane as it approached.. I think there will be more stories about it.. They got as many people as they could out of the way...

It was just luck... and hard work.. can't discredit the firemen, policemen, and civilians who helped..

It could have been a lot worse.

(I can't type for some reason! Sorry for the typos! )
[Edited 2/18/10 16:21pm]

NDRU said:

Exactly.

deadmansbones said:

ufoclub said:

Ain't that the truth!

Ironically enough.. I was watching The Outsiders very briefly last night. I was just flipping channels.. and came upon the scene where that soc...(sp?) said to Ponyboy, "I don't know if I could have gone in that burning church to save those kids." Pony boy said, "You probably would have.."

Yeah.. it's really amazing how people rise to the occasion..

I like people by and large. I just think this Steck guy had problems... obviously his priorities messed-up..among others..

DesireeNevermind said:

exactly.

ok so into the fray I go.
As many of you know I work with people who are conservatives, Bushies the lot of them and all Obama haters but maybe 3. That said I walked around today and this is what I heard.
Most after they read the manifesto said they agreed with what he wrote but not his methods. Some said he would be the new voice of the people who wanted change for America. A small group said that he did what he felt he had to do and that someone should take care of his family, because he died for what he believed in.

WHAT THE FUCK?

This guy didn't pay his taxes. IN CALIFORNIA. YEARS AGO. He was a tax dodger from jump. Didn't feel like HE should have to pay taxes. This guy was making 6 figures most of the time, and wanted it all wanted more and felt like he was special or better or more deserving then others who abided by the tax law of the land. Yeah ok he got "screwed" by his CPA ok BUT he had a CPA. He was looking for ways to not pay his taxes, He was a business owner who switched businesses when he was made to be accountable to a law he didn't agree with. THEN he moved to our lovely central texas looking for some Michael Dell money and prosperity. BUT it didn't work for him because he was too busy trying to get over, not be accountable and not really have any personal responsibility for his past foibles. I feel the whole "the irs screws people and big business gets away with it" and maybe just maybe if he would have sent this "manifesto" to Fox or some right wing, government hating, tea bagging web site or paper he would have had a following and would be making enough money on the speaking circuit a la Palin to pay his tax bill, he wouldn't have felt the need to slam that plane into a building.

So yeah this guy was a dumbass and I am sorry for his wife, who is left to think because they had a fight that morning it was her fault he burned down the house and killed himself and at least one other person.

As for insane/sane, in this case I agree that he was sane. Selfish, egotistical, maybe even narcisstic, but no not insane, just as Tim McVeigh was not insane.

really? is that really true?

OnlyNDaUsa said:

what people said in my workplace? YES.
that the back taxes he gripes about first were from california? YES.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

You haven't been following the focus on tax shelters I take it?

RodeoSchro said:

Evidence suggests they do.

RodeoSchro said:

But can insanity really fly a plane into a specific target?
An altered mental state? Definitely. Lacking sanity? Very doubtful.

SUPRMAN said:

he was pissed, he wasn't insane. N the wife and child left the house the night before so they weren't there when the fire was set, plus what I'm hearing is that he was really upset bout some law that made a software programmer next to impossible to start his own business. Shrugs.

RodeoSchro said:

No I don't think McVeigh had a point. But I don't think all atrocious acts are the result of mental insanity, temporary insanity, craziness, sugar rush or any other excuse offered.
This man initiated a planned deliberate act. Planned and execute sanely and demonstrating skill to dispel any belief that he was mentally unbalanced or deranged.
Admittedly, it is not normative or socially acceptable behavior but acting outside of those mores and boundaries is not the definition of a loss of sanity.
[Edited 2/19/10 23:22pm]

RodeoSchro said:

So what is war?

No one says a country going to war has gone insane. . . .

RodeoSchro said:

I have. I don't think he was insane. I do agree that he created problems for himself and blames others. What's exaggerated, embellished or left out we don't know. He sees the world as he sees it, and plenty of people do.

RodeoSchro said:

Are you equating violence with 'whackjob?'
Most violence isn't committed by 'whackjobs.'

NDRU said:

Sure it does. What's insane about it? It's aberrant behavior, immoral, unethical, anti-social and not to mention illegal, but none of that makes it insane or crazy.

SUPRMAN said:

insane = defective function of mental processes such as reasoning

The man did not like that he was not able to get away with tax loopholes and had to pay penalties for unpaid taxes. So he theorized about a group of elite that kept him down. He then killed himself (in effect this is worse than having to pay taxes) and also drove a plane into a building that did not even contain the elite he identified. This did nothing reasonably effective to remedy his perceived situation. Therefore it's insane.

ufoclub said:

Well-said!

RodeoSchro said:

Rodeo, when in court somebody like this guy cannot plead insanity, he would be considered and punished like a cold blooded, cruel, heartless murderer in the first degree. Possibly a terrorist in this case too.

But when he has to be considered mentally insane, he can plead his insanity as a defense for his actions. Then he won't be considered and punished like the cold blooded, cruel, heartless murderer in the first degree and possibly the terrorist, but he would be locked up and treated like a mentally insane criminal in a closed mental institution.

What qualification do you think fits this guy when you view it like that?

Tremolina said:

Well, a couple points:

First, Erin said his letter made him look "totally sane". I disagree - someone that says they are going to kill innocent people - as well as themselves in the process - isn't "totally sane". Totally insane? I don't know, but surely not "totally sane".

Second, my main point is to make sure no one says about this guy, "Well, he had a point" because he did not. Some here perused his letter, read "big government is out to get me" and erroneously concluded this guy just got pushed over the edge.

Wrong.

This guy was a nut and if you read his letter closely and entirely, there is no other conclusion you can come to. Nowhere in his letter does he list anything that happened to him that was anyone's fault but his own. I've asked at least two different Orgers to show even one example of this guy getting screwed by someone, and they can't do it.

So I don't want anyone to give this murderer even once ounce of credibility. He was a nut, and he was not "totally sane".

Well, it seems this "totally sane" man killed a Vietnam Vet that was a devoted father and grandfather.



This motherfucker was "totally sane"?

Give me a fucking break.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/a...JrZXJraWw-

lazycrockett said:

the FBI has no such authority or power to do that.

Identity said:

they will do no such thing. You might see it discussed but the conclusion will be that this was no more foreseeable than any other crime.