I"M OUT AND PROUD. My best friend is gay. He isn't gay "in the traditional sense" that we see on TV and movies. Sometimes I forget really...But I've never heard him talking about gay pride. I want to be as filled in as I can because this seems to be such a sensitive topic for so many folks all around me. I've been to the parade in NYC a couple times to hang out with him. It was interesting to see how many different walks of life gay people represent.

i do have one question though besides the first one, What does running around the streets in your drawers have to do with pride?

i think it only cheapens what it is that's trying to be accomplished, no?

CalhounSq said:

he said "what does pride have to do with running around in your drawers"

Yeah why do us straight folks need to know if you're gay or not?

I'm not bothered.Just have a fun carnival for everyone!

IAM said:

Each to his own I suppose.

I have to say I agree with you though, I've never understood the whole concept of the 'Gay Community' thing.

I consider myself to be the same as any straight person and actually find all that effeminate stuff a turn off, but who am I or most importantly YOU to judge anyone on how they choose to live their lives and/or display said feelings.

Just my

xenon said:

oh lord, here we go with this crap...

it's not juding *oddammit, it's a question!!!

IAM said:

It's not entirely crap.SOME gay folk do act camp on purpose.That is up to them though.

Marrk said:

act camp?

The only thing that makes someone gay is that they are sexually and romantically attracted to men - i.e. they have sex with men, fall in love with me, or desire to do one or both of these.

The notion of Gay pride comes from the fact that for a very long time gay men were represessed socially, in fact they still are - there are so many differences in the law pertaining to gay relationships (marriage, adoption, pensions, insurance, age of consent (in many places), and here in the UK section 28 - which forbids the "promotion of homosexuality" in schools - i.e. when sex education takes place in school, they aren't allowed to discuss anything but heterosexual sex, which leads to a lot of mental and social problems for gay school children).

So now that the door has been opened since the late 60s, Gay men celebrate their freedom to express themselves, and their diverse culture(s).

Unless you live in a very liberal Gay-friendly part of a big city, it would be almost unheard of for a gay man to walk down the street holding his partners hand, or to kiss in public - these simple civil rights are enjoyed, without question, by heterosexuals.

Personally I find it kinda vulgar whoever does it, but then having never been given the chance to do without possible verbal or physical abuse, I can't say that if that threat was taken away, if I would feel differently or not.

So whilst I do not partake in Pride marches, or in the gay community for that matter - the fact that many gay men and women do, is to be congratulated since they are raising visibility for equal rights, and slowly, but surely, opening up mass-cultural acceptance to homosexuals.

You know, just like Black people marched and fought for their rights - now I wouldn't compare the plight of African-Americans and their history to that of gay men and women - but there is a parallel you can draw between all groups in society that have been repressed and marginalised.

thanx for that...

IAM said:

at times appear more camp than they actually are then.

I'm not having a go or anything OK?

Marrk said:

You can liken putting on campness to putting on a stereotypical "black attitude".

Now folks, don't get all upperty saying what is a "black attitude" when you know exactly what I mean - I could say "what is camp" - but I know what you mean.

Showing certain physical and communicative attributes (likes clothing, hairstyles, words & phrases, gestures etc) are all a way of showing a similar identity and bonding.

All groups do it, from Football jocks and Black people to Small-town housewives and Gay men.

IAM said:

Sorry, it must have been my interpretation of the supposed question.

But the fact that you chose to respond to the judging part of my quote rather than the part where I agreed with you speaks for itself.

VelvetSplash said:

Forgive me if I sound like a freakin dumby but I SINCERELLY meant to ask what ACT CAMP means.

does that refer to acting real faggy?

Acting Camp just means to be effeminate, you know stereotypically what a Gay man is thought of to be - like Jack in Will & Grace.

xenon said:

and it says what?

VelvetSplash said:

thanx again. maybe i should've just sent you a note.
i was lookin for people to give me direct answers about my question.

not a *ucking debate.

i guess some cant help themselves.

anyway, thanx again.

It's about cultivating a sense of pride in yourself and your community regardless of society's approval or lack thereof. Being out and proud is living your life in a truthful and honest manner. Being out and proud is taking away the power from straight society to hate and condemn us. Being out and proud is loving yourself for who you are, no matter who approves..

Since I'm one of those horrible offenders that actually force straight society to come to terms with the fact that I'm here and I'm queer, I'll use drag to illustrate my point.

I see people pointing to the fact that some of us wear underwear at a a parade or dress in drag. As someone who has done drag, I know this issue goes beyond simply putting on a dress for kicks. When I did drag I wasn't doing it specifically to make a political statement but that is exactly what it was. I, like most other homosexuals, spent my life ( up until age 18 ) trying to hide, lying to family and friends, denying the truth. Dressing in drag is literally coming out in the most extreme way possible. It's an affront to the lies. When I finally came out of the closet, I discovered the raw power of finally determining my own destiny by seizing control of and expressing my truth.

I have always had a very strong feminine identity within myself. Dressing in drag was a way that I could actually acknowledge that side of me. People called me a fag anyway, so I put on lingerie and had the attitude of "yeah...and?"



The weekend of my 21st birthday I entered an underwear contest. When this club first announced the contest my friends all said that I should join but I was hesitant because I'm so thin and I thought I would be up there with some really masculine guys and I didn't want to look dumb. Then I had a light bulb moment. I called all my friends and told them that I was going to join the contest.

I show up at the bar and my friends are all there and they ask if I'm still going to do it and I said yes and went into the restroom to change. When I came out, I was wearing the outfit above. Black high heels, thigh high stockings, garter belt, lace panties & lace bra. The contest didn't specify what kind of underwear I had the DJ put on Hot Thing and I worked my shit so hard. I won the contest. $100 bucks.

Expressing my feminine side so blatantly was definitely political in it's nature. Dressing in drag is a direct manifestation of rebelling against a society that doesn't have room for those of us who are different. I came out and acknowledged a side of me that exists and decided that nobody was going to dictate any longer who I should be and how I should express myself. I pushed social and creative boundaries like many others have done before...Annie Lennox, Prince, David Bowie, and Grace Jones to name a few.

Most people on this site don't have problems with this issue, however some do. To those who do have problems with it I would like to ask: How do you reconcile your love for Prince when the foundation of his career was built on dressing in drag and expressing his femininity?















As someone who was not able to hide very well, I was forced to be on the frontlines battling for my freedom. Now that I am out, I stand willingly on the front line. I am proud to stand with all the drag queens and dykes who battle for the freedom of all our brothers and sisters to express themselves and live in truth. I am proud to make our voice heard and to those gay people who think we should be "normal", just realize that without the fags and dykes paving the way, we (you) wouldn't have nearly the amount of freedom we do today. Especially if we continued hiding and kept trying to conform to societal "norms".

Gay society has many facets, some extreme and many that are easily blendable with straight society. I have no problem with Gay people living their lives to make themselves happy and if that means blending in, then fine. What I do reject completely is gay people feeling forced to blend in with straight society because there is no other option in which they can live and lead a happy and productive life.

I am Out and Proud!! If you don't like it...too damn bad

IAM said:

, Richard(superfunkygrindersexy)

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

It's about time you turned up.

I'm too stupid to deal with this TWAT on my own.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

thanx for sharing that bro...

xenon said:

AGREED.

IAM said:

by the way "mr.uptightgayguy" that was a great link to the urinal etiquette. the muppet thing was *uckin hilarious.

I am a gay man living in a small town in Southeastern Kentucky. The "Out & Proud" issue was brought up to me about 3 years ago when I decided to come out of the closet & help young men who were going thru the same stuff as me. So I decided to find others who were living in the "norm" trying to blend in to start a small mens social group where they would feel comfortable with themselves and not have to "blend in". The result of the was the formation of the Le Maison Chat "The Cat House". Now, we do not go around to all the parade's n our underwear. To us this is fullfilling every gay stereotype out there. I read in the above post that being "camp" was like Jack from Will & Grace. And sadly this is the misconception that a lot of ppl have of the Gay Community. They do not realize that a lot of Gay ppl look down upon this. They don't want 2 b bunched into a group with ppl who feel that they must b "campy" to b accepted. And this was the founding reasons for our social group. We wanted to show the Outside "str8" community that the gay men of Kentucky were not just the drag queens that they saw on T.V. but also there brothers/bosses/teachers ect. ect. We host a lot of Gay Pride Events. We have went as far as opening up a Supper Club that allows both gay & straight communities to come together and get 2 know one another in a "comfortable" setting. Thankfully this has been met with sucess. On opening night we had the Gov. of Kentucky & the Mayor of our town as guests. We are trying 2 break down this stereotype that all gay men are campy. And we are taking pride not only in ourselves, but in our community also. There is no reason 2 be ashamed of urself. Straight ppl don't have to worry about gettin shot if they hold their partners hand in public, or hear the slurs & catcalls if they show any kind of affection in public. The Gay community does not ask for special consideration, we just ask for equal treatment. Hopefully one day we will all wake up and realize that truly there is no black or white, gay or str8, democrat or republican. We are all members of the same family. It is truly One Human Family. Stop the hate.

Man, I am out of the office for an hour and a half, and the org explodes...

hee hee...

alright, read the whole thread, and here are my personal thoughts. I speak for myself and ONLY myself.

personally, I agree with many of you that gay pride is a ridiculous thing in some aspects. As someone who, despite being a bit flirty and camp on this site, is rather mundane and average joe boring in real life, I find many images of gay pride loathsome. I despise the fact that those of us who tend to compromise a large part of the gay community, who are your boring friends and neighbors, go largely unrepresented when it comes to pride parades and pride events.

all too often people use pride as an excuse to wear next to nothing, get roaring drunk and dance down the streets in the most garish clothes you can imagine.

most of us would never dream of doing such a thing, which many people find very difficult to believe, because when the see footage of pride events on TV, all they ever show is the overbuff clones wearing thongs, high on exstacy and griding away at one another, or the drag queens. why are these the only images you see? mostly because they are a lot more interesting to watch than all the guys and girls who look like any other person who are standing there just celebrating the fact that we are one step closer to freedom and true equality.

Now keep in mind, i don't hate the clones or the drag queens, i just get tired of them being the only ones represented a lot of the time.

but the point of pride is to celbrate the freedoms we have achieved and to set ourselves toward the ultimate goal of total equality.

because the steps that have been achieved have only been achieved recently. at this time in america homosexual sex is still illegal in if i recall correctly 36 states. as i speak my home state has passed a bill specifically making same sex civil unions illegal, regardless of wether the civil union was formed and honored in a different state. they are about to make it illegal in texas for same sex couples to adopt or foster kids, and they will be spending 50 million dollars a year to hunt down same sex couples in texas that have adopted or are currently fostering children and take them from the couples. there is a case before the texas supreme court currently is hearing a case in which two houston men were prosecuted for engaging in homosexual contact in the privacy of their own home. and i hardly need mention all of the reported and unreported cases of gay bashings and murders.

and this is just one state out of 50.

for me, pride is an act of defiance, much as drag is to richard. i openly confess to my sexuality, rahter than hide it because it tells people that i am not ashamed of who i am, and i will not allow their feelings on the matter to affect who i am or how i conduct my life.

when i show my pride of who i am, it is a way of honoring the millions who came before me who did not even have the meager freedoms that i enjoy, who had to live their entire lives in fear and secrecy and shame.

when i show my pride it is a way to show the children who have not yet stuggled with the hatred and mockery and ciolence they will suffer because they love another person who happens to be the same gender that they are that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and that better days are coming.

when i show my pride it is a way of telling the world "I AM MAD AS HELL THAT I AM BEING TAKEN FOR GRANTED AND OPPRESSED AND I AM NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANY MORE!"

when i show my pride, it is a way of confirming my own existance.

when i have pride, i am me.

and all i want is the rights every other adult in this country has.

and i will not take no for an answer.


prideful edit
[This message was edited Thu Apr 24 13:52:03 PDT 2003 by cborgman]

alexnevermind319 said:

That was me who said the remark about Will & Grace - I'm gay, so I know that not all men are screaming queens (I'm not!) - but the question was asked "what is camp" - so I was just answering.

I do not like that stereotype - but like most stereotypes, there is a degree of truth to them, and there are a lot of men like that.


.
[This message was edited Thu Apr 24 13:41:13 PDT 2003 by VelvetSplash]

alexnevermind319 said:

thanx for sharing that bro...

i gotta say though, i am glad that there is black, white, straight, gay etc...

*hit would be boring if we all were clones and thought alike

i used to get *hit from people especially my family for being so close to my friend

but he's the only one that's been there with me thick & thin

VelvetSplash said: