Dont take my question seriously. Its cynism -- since we had to read so many "Better than..." threads lately.

However, if you have an opinion on this topic, please discuss. I wont stop you!

well,
ill get back wit' you...

I like Kenny G. and I have a few of his CDs.His 1986 instrumental "Songbird" is my favorite.I know most of y'all are gonna get on here and diss him,but he's cool with me

As for Michael Bolton...I liked his 1989 hit "Soul Provider" but that's about it.
[This message was edited Mon Oct 27 5:42:58 PST 2003 by DavidEye]

I think Freddo frog is better than both of them !

Kenny G
Michael Bolton

DavidEye said:

I dont get you sometimes!!! Maybe you dig Kenny because he kinda plays like Bill Clinton...


Btw, here is a nice peice Pat Matheny wrote on Kenny:

Kenny G is not a musician I really had much of an opinion about at all until recently. There was not much about the way he played that interested me one way or the other either live or on records.

I first heard him a number of years ago playing as a sideman with Jeff Lorber when they opened a concert for my band. My impression was that he was someone who had spent a fair amount of time listening to the more pop oriented sax players of that time, like Grover Washington or David Sanborn, but was not really an advanced player, even in that style. He had major rhythmic problems and his harmonic and melodic vocabulary was extremely limited, mostly to pentatonic based and blues-lick derived patterns, and he basically exhibited only a rudimentary understanding of how to function as a professional soloist in an ensemble - Lorber was basically playing him off the bandstand in terms of actual music.

But he did show a knack for connecting to the basest impulses of the large crowd by deploying his two or three most effective licks (holding long notes and playing fast runs - never mind that there were lots of harmonic clams in them) at the key moments to elicit a powerful crowd reaction (over and over again). The other main thing I noticed was that he also, as he does to this day, played horribly out of tune - consistently sharp.

Of course, I am aware of what he has played since, the success it has had, and the controversy that has surrounded him among musicians and serious listeners. This controversy seems to be largely fueled by the fact that he sells an enormous amount of records while not being anywhere near a really great player in relation to the standards that have been set on his instrument over the past sixty or seventy years. And honestly, there is no small amount of envy involved from musicians who see one of their fellow players doing so well financially, especially when so many of them who are far superior as improvisors and musicians in general have trouble just making a living. There must be hundreds, if not thousands of sax players around the world who are simply better improvising musicians than Kenny G on his chosen instruments. It would really surprise me if even he disagreed with that statement.

Having said that, it has gotten me to thinking lately why so many jazz musicians (myself included, given the right "bait" of a question, as I will explain later) and audiences have gone so far as to say that what he is playing is not even jazz at all. Stepping back for a minute, if we examine the way he plays, especially if one can remove the actual improvising from the often mundane background environment that it is delivered in, we see that his saxophone style is in fact clearly in the tradition of the kind of playing that most reasonably objective listeners WOULD normally quantify as being jazz. It's just that as jazz or even as music in a general sense, with these standards in mind, it is simply not up to the level of playing that we historically associate with professional improvising musicians. So, lately I have been advocating that we go ahead and just include it under the word jazz - since pretty much of the rest of the world OUTSIDE of the jazz community does anyway - and let the chips fall where they may.

And after all, why he should be judged by any other standard, why he should be exempt from that that all other serious musicians on his instrument are judged by if they attempt to use their abilities in an improvisational context playing with a rhythm section as he does? He SHOULD be compared to John Coltrane or Wayne Shorter, for instance, on his abilities (or lack thereof) to play the soprano saxophone and his success (or lack thereof) at finding a way to deploy that instrument in an ensemble in order to accurately gauge his abilities and put them in the context of his instrument's legacy and potential.

As a composer of even eighth note based music, he SHOULD be compared to Herbie Hancock, Horace Silver or even Grover Washington. Suffice it to say, on all above counts, at this point in his development, he wouldn't fare well.

But, like I said at the top, this relatively benign view was all "until recently".

Not long ago, Kenny G put out a recording where he overdubbed himself on top of a 30+ year old Louis Armstrong record, the track "What a Wonderful World". With this single move, Kenny G became one of the few people on earth I can say that I really can't use at all - as a man, for his incredible arrogance to even consider such a thing, and as a musician, for presuming to share the stage with the single most important figure in our music.

This type of musical necrophilia - the technique of overdubbing on the preexisting tracks of already dead performers - was weird when Natalie Cole did it with her dad on "Unforgettable" a few years ago, but it was her dad. When Tony Bennett did it with Billie Holiday it was bizarre, but we are talking about two of the greatest singers of the 20th century who were on roughly the same level of artistic accomplishment. When Larry Coryell presumed to overdub himself on top of a Wes Montgomery track, I lost a lot of the respect that I ever had for him - and I have to seriously question the fact that I did have respect for someone who could turn out to have such unbelievably bad taste and be that disrespectful to one of my personal heroes.

But when Kenny G decided that it was appropriate for him to defile the music of the man who is probably the greatest jazz musician that has ever lived by spewing his lame-ass, jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out, fucked up playing all over one of the great Louis's tracks (even one of his lesser ones), he did something that I would not have imagined possible. He, in one move, through his unbelievably pretentious and calloused musical decision to embark on this most cynical of musical paths, shit all over the graves of all the musicians past and present who have risked their lives by going out there on the road for years and years developing their own music inspired by the standards of grace that Louis Armstrong brought to every single note he played over an amazing lifetime as a musician. By disrespecting Louis, his legacy and by default, everyone who has ever tried to do something positive with improvised music and what it can be, Kenny G has created a new low point in modern culture - something that we all should be totally embarrassed about - and afraid of. We ignore this, "let it slide", at our own peril.

His callous disregard for the larger issues of what this crass gesture implies is exacerbated by the fact that the only reason he possibly have for doing something this inherently wrong (on both human and musical terms) was for the record sales and the money it would bring.

Since that record came out - in protest, as insignificant as it may be, I encourage everyone to boycott Kenny G recordings, concerts and anything he is associated with. If asked about Kenny G, I will diss him and his music with the same passion that is in evidence in this little essay.

Normally, I feel that musicians all have a hard enough time, regardless of their level, just trying to play good and don't really benefit from public criticism, particularly from their fellow players. but, this is different.

There ARE some things that are sacred - and amongst any musician that has ever attempted to address jazz at even the most basic of levels, Louis Armstrong and his music is hallowed ground. To ignore this trespass is to agree that NOTHING any musician has attempted to do with their life in music has any intrinsic value - and I refuse to do that. (I am also amazed that there HASN'T already been an outcry against this among music critics - where ARE they on this???!?!?!?!, magazines, etc.). Everything I said here is exactly the same as what I would say to Gorelick if I ever saw him in person. and if I ever DO see him anywhere, at any function - he WILL get a piece of my mind and (maybe a guitar wrapped around his head.)

Yeah,I know he's not a genuis or anything,but I just dig a few of his albums."Songbird" is a beautiful song.

My musical tastes would shock you.I even like the Starland Vocal Band!

in bed, Michael Bolton

DavidEye said:

soulpower said:

Thx for this to share! LMAO...

wsenges said:

Cold. Aint it?

jthad1129 said:

WHO'S BED? He is creepy
but I must say I have heard a kenny J album, My friend put it on once, it was cool background music, I don't know what that says about his music? It wasn't hard on the ears but it didn't evoke any feeling good or bad

They are both the anti-music(s)

Pat

Metheny said:

I'd already been protesting Kenny G's music...but now I have a reason!!!

This type of musical necrophilia - the technique of overdubbing on the preexisting tracks of already dead performers.

That's hilarious! I'm not a real big fan of Metheny either, though he has recorded some interesting albums in the past. I would much rather listen to Metheny than Kenny G. I've been saying the same shit for years! Now that he's gone and desecrated an Armstrong track, I pledge this vow to crack his fucking jaw if we ever happen to cross paths! That shit is wrong yo, like Pat said it wasn't about acknowledging a music hero it was all about record sales. The biggest mistake people can make when meeting is telling me how they love jazz and then start gushing over Kenny G, I'm not nearly as nice as Pat.

It's a hard call to make, but Kenny G. Michael Bolton is simply awful, but Kenny G has one good song, "Songbird".

MrSquiggle said:

that song is not good!

they stink--not stank either

I've always been more partial to Yanni

Anxiety said:

Isnt his playing reason enuff already?

...give me alittle more time,

the comparison???

GIOVANNI said:

There is none, Micheal sings and Kenny don't.

DavidEye said:

Not to worry David.
I am not surprised by any of your answers;
not in the slightest.

I must confess that I own the "Duotones" release on cassette. Fave song is"Sade," which was for the singer. Also I saw him live about 7 years ago when Toni Braxton toured with him. That was a pretty good show. These days I don't hold him up in high regard, actually I don't know if I ever did, but I do like a couple of songs. Now I shall hang my head down in shame.

someone should melt/ clone their dna ( + andré rieu's one too) the result would be a monster

I was gonna say Kenny G until I read that Pat Metheny thing. I'd heard he was thinking about covering "Wonderful World" but I didn't think he'd overdub it. Man, what's up with that?

guitarslinger44 said:

Maybe Kenny is a necrophilliac.

sinisterpentatonic said:

"Musical necrophilia" is hilarious.

I think they both are abyssmal, but if forced at gunpoint, I'd have to say Kenny G. is a weee bit more tolerable.

What kind of question is this? That's like comparing 2 different colored pieces of crap.