mjscarousel said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Bruno's got talent, for sure and his music appeals to the general population. I wouldn't say he's a MJ or Prince, but he is a good musician who can sell records & writes his own stuff and performs; he is legit.

Thats how I feel. He will never be MJ or Prince and he is no where on that level of talent and of course I love MJ far better than Bruno BUT Bruno is legit and not some manufactured singer like some are making. He writes and plays instruments and he makes descent pop music compared to his peers.

So...what is all this hate about?

.

I think the hate from some people has to do with the fact that Bruno is "multi-racial", and our society still has a problem with that.

.

But then again, there are white people and other multi-racial people that get a free pass. So, who knows??

cloveringold85 said:

mjscarousel said:

Thats how I feel. He will never be MJ or Prince and he is no where on that level of talent and of course I love MJ far better than Bruno BUT Bruno is legit and not some manufactured singer like some are making. He writes and plays instruments and he makes descent pop music compared to his peers.

So...what is all this hate about?

.

I think the hate from some people has to do with the fact that Bruno is "multi-racial", and our society still has a problem with that.

.

But then again, there are white people and other multi-racial people that get a free pass. So, who knows??

Actual culture vultures like Post Malone, Iggy Azalea, Post Malone and Miley Cyrus seemed to have gotten it lightly compared to Bruno. The latter 2 in particular threw hip hop as a genre under the bus but had no problem swimming in the flow of cash it yielded them (and in Post Malone's case, still yields him). However, someone who cares deeply, is knowledgeable of and has an open appreciation for the music he's influenced by is the cultural appropriator. Never mind the fact that Bruno's of a race that has seen precious little representation in the music world, far less than black people.

MotownSubdivision said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

I think the hate from some people has to do with the fact that Bruno is "multi-racial", and our society still has a problem with that.

.

But then again, there are white people and other multi-racial people that get a free pass. So, who knows??

Actual culture vultures like Post Malone, Iggy Azalea, Post Malone and Miley Cyrus seemed to have gotten it lightly compared to Bruno. The latter 2 in particular threw hip hop as a genre under the bus but had no problem swimming in the flow of cash it yielded them (and in Post Malone's case, still yields him). However, someone who cares deeply, is knowledgeable of and has an open appreciation for the music he's influenced by is the cultural appropriator. Never mind the fact that Bruno's of a race that has seen precious little representation in the music world, far less than black people.

.

I don't know if we can throw in JT and Bieber in that mix, because they are both white dudes that produce hip-hop and R&B, and they don't seem to be getting the criticism that Bruno is getting. There are other's, but JT and Bieber came to mind first.

cloveringold85 said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Actual culture vultures like Post Malone, Iggy Azalea, Post Malone and Miley Cyrus seemed to have gotten it lightly compared to Bruno. The latter 2 in particular threw hip hop as a genre under the bus but had no problem swimming in the flow of cash it yielded them (and in Post Malone's case, still yields him). However, someone who cares deeply, is knowledgeable of and has an open appreciation for the music he's influenced by is the cultural appropriator. Never mind the fact that Bruno's of a race that has seen precious little representation in the music world, far less than black people.

.

I don't know if we can throw in JT and Bieber in that mix, because they are both white dudes that produce hip-hop and R&B, and they don't seem to be getting the criticism that Bruno is getting. There are other's, but JT and Bieber came to mind first.

JT is more suspect than straight up culture vulture. I used to be of the opinion he was but I've cooled on him in recent years, however I to got caught up in the whirlwind of his Halftime Show and all the Prince-related things surrounding it. Culture vulture or not, the dude has almost always struck me as fake.

Bieber was always trash and the fact that people fell for his little so-called comeback a few years ago irked me. The insulkt to injury was how the NARAS saw fit to not nominate Anti for AotY last year but nominated Bieber's album. Sure, the singles were catchy but to me, that's up there with the many questionable decisions the committee has made over the years; they literally nominated a shallow novelty album over the strongest project by one of the biggest stars of this era. Bieber's expiration date passed years ago but for some reason, people still drink him up. Like the remix of that stupid "Despacito" song which broke records because of his involvement. Spotify even went so far as to dub him the "Latin King" because of the song's success...

They wisely pulled this but not before people called them out on their BS.

Graycap23 said:

mjscarousel said:

Gray you hate Bruno Mars because he is inspired by Prince just admit it (your my boy but thats the truth)

I can't take your music opinions seriously anymore after you claimed you would much rather listen to Beyonce over Bruno Mars. LMAO How can you then have the nerve as well as the audacity to lecture me or anyone on "authentic music" when you rather listen to garbage?

Come on Gray

I will always bring that up because you and I both know that is a bunch of B.S. You have an issue with him beyond his music to make such a ridiculous outlandish remark.

There is way worse music on the radio right now. Bruno's is not the worse of the worse

We all have collectively agreed that the man is not a innovator or a genius but the QUALITY of his music is better than his pop peers and if you cannot maturely nor objectively acknowledge that, that is your own stubborness/personal biases blinding you and no one else.

Beyonce, Bruno...both are garbage.

You got that right, along with Timberfake and that piece of trash Bieber.

cloveringold85 said:

mjscarousel said:

Thats how I feel. He will never be MJ or Prince and he is no where on that level of talent and of course I love MJ far better than Bruno BUT Bruno is legit and not some manufactured singer like some are making. He writes and plays instruments and he makes descent pop music compared to his peers.

So...what is all this hate about?

.

I think the hate from some people has to do with the fact that Bruno is "multi-racial", and our society still has a problem with that.

.

But then again, there are white people and other multi-racial people that get a free pass. So, who knows??

I agree but its mainly Black people that have a issue with Bruno Mars. I think other races of people do not care.

If Bruno was a White man, I doubt Black people would be outrage about it and that is the sad part. There have been many White male singers over the years and since the beginning of time i.e. Bobby Caldwell, Jon B, JT, Robin Thicke, etc who have made careers making R&B music. They have also been accepted as R&B singers in the BLACK community. So its hyprocritical how some Black people want to bash Bruno Mars just because he is a "Multiracial" man making R&B music.

The issue some Black people have with Bruno Mars is foolish and borderline prejudice. IMO, You can not support White men making R&B music but then turn around and personally attack the ethnic background of a multi-racial man who does the same thing because the whole race argument becomes a mute issue. So we can accept White men (the main cultural appropiators in the industry) making our music but not Multiracial men? What? Its ignorant. Thes arguments are baseless and hyprocritical. Bruno has actually done MORE for the Black musicians that he is inspired by compared to those White R&B singers, that is the irony. Black people have wack priorities in terms of what they want to make a issue about when it comes to the community. Its OK if some don't like Bruno Mars but to make it seem as though his music is the worse thing that hit the radio is bullshit. There is far worse pop trash. I also don't think Bruno deserves to be personally attacked or insulted. That woman in that video said that if Bruno died tomorrow she would not care and bake a cake, That is just hateful and cruel, nobody deserves that.

mjscarousel, girrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrl.



You have broken it down until it can't be broke no mo' but still folks wanna argue.

The attacks on the young man are unfounded and unfair. People have a right as we do not to like Mr. Mars music. In listening to his stuff, as I said I hear the influences... the one thing I like are his lyrics, his turn of phrase(s), they are truly his own. So far a solid musicians with room to grow. The guy is making music folks can dance to... no mid-temple shit. I find this whole conversation embarrassing; if you thought Mars music sucked fin,e we can agree to disagree but the mean spirited attacks and twisted logic is pathetic.

paisleypark4 said:

mjscarousel said:

I agree with these arguments in the links you posted but the only thing I never understand with these discussions is that why aren't Black pop stars or Black music buyers called out? They play JUST as much of a role in this problem with why there is a lack of R&B in the mainstream. As an artist, (regardless of your label of choice) you make a decision ultimately if you want to be a puppet or follow your heart (i.e. Janelle Monae). I don't believe these season artists are as controlled by labels. ALSO, none of the Black artists out now with money never put on or introduce other artists.

Thats what I been saying. The audience has to listen and buy their stuff, view it on youtube. They all listening to hip hop even the grown folks bumping trap music like its that knock smh. I don't know the last time I heard anyone bumping a r&b song in their car..and you know what the last one was I heard? "Finesse" by Bruno. If that is what it takes to get r&b back to people appreciating r&b and making more shit like this I am all for it...or else suffer the conseqquences of listening to more Migos Young Thug and Lil Yachty all year. Got damn.

Agree, that is how I feel. Who wants to listen to that garbage on the radio? When I turn on the radio I rather listen to the music that Bruno Mars makes. He is bringing back R&B into the mainstream and that is something that is needed in this generation and in this current industry. We should not be discouraging that and should be applauding his efforts. He is also introducing young people to legendary sounds and artists. There has been a spike in interest in this generation and in the media for artists like The Gap Band, Cameo, George Clinton because of Bruno Mars. This IS a GOOD thing and that is why I support him because he supports the BLACK legends and Black pioneers. Those other narcisstic Black pop stars and trap rappers cannot even say they have done that. So I am not going to hate on Bruno Mars for stepping up.

[Edited 3/19/18 18:48pm]

TD3 said:

mjscarousel, girrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrl.



You have broken it down until it can't be broke no mo' but still folks wanna argue.

The attacks on the young man are unfounded and unfair. People have a right as we do not to like Mr. Mars music. In listening to his stuff, as I said I hear the influences... the one thing I like are his lyrics, his turn of phrase(s), they are truly his own. So far a solid musicians with room to grow. The guy is making music folks can dance to... no mid-temple shit. I find this whole conversation embarrassing; if you thought Mars music sucked fin,e we can agree to disagree but the mean spirited attacks and twisted logic is pathetic.

Chile I am trying to break this thing down the best way I can but I see nothing has changed around here. EVERYBODY in this thread who claim to be fans of PRINCE, Parliament, Cameo, etc who are attacking Bruno Mars ought to be ashamed. The man is HONORING and TRIBUTING the artists that you love. He is giving them a platform and there has been a spike in interest in these old bands BECAUSE of Bruno Mars. I would NEVER discourage Bruno from honoring BLACK legends and musicians because that is something the industry and White media does NOT DO. Bruno Mars makes good pop music compared to the crap that has been on the radio for over the last decade. This whole conversation IS embarassing and pointless. That rachet woman in that video actually mocked the potential passing of Bruno, that IS ignorant as hell and hateful. WHY is the hate so strong for this man who makes good pop music? He makes his music, plays his instruments, writes his songs and then goes home BUT more overrated BLACK pop stars who don't do any of that are NEVER criticized by Black people. I will never understand it.

mjscarousel said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

I think the hate from some people has to do with the fact that Bruno is "multi-racial", and our society still has a problem with that.

.

But then again, there are white people and other multi-racial people that get a free pass. So, who knows??

I agree but its mainly Black people that have a issue with Bruno Mars. I think other races of people do not care.

If Bruno was a White man, I doubt Black people would be outrage about it and that is the sad part. There have been many White male singers over the years and since the beginning of time i.e. Bobby Caldwell, Jon B, JT, Robin Thicke, etc who have made careers making R&B music. They have also been accepted as R&B singers in the BLACK community. So its hyprocritical how some Black people want to bash Bruno Mars just because he is a "Multiracial" man making R&B music.

The issue some Black people have with Bruno Mars is foolish and borderline prejudice. IMO, You can not support White men making R&B music but then turn around and personally attack the ethnic background of a multi-racial man who does the same thing because the whole race argument becomes a mute issue. So we can accept White men (the main cultural appropiators in the industry) making our music but not Multiracial men? What? Its ignorant. Thes arguments are baseless and hyprocritical. Bruno has actually done MORE for the Black musicians that he is inspired by compared to those White R&B singers, that is the irony. Black people have wack priorities in terms of what they want to make a issue about when it comes to the community. Its OK if some don't like Bruno Mars but to make it seem as though his music is the worse thing that hit the radio is bullshit. There is far worse pop trash. I also don't think Bruno deserves to be personally attacked or insulted. That woman in that video said that if Bruno died tomorrow she would not care and bake a cake, That is just hateful and cruel, nobody deserves that.

why is it that black people always get chastised for a dilemna they did not create....

there's plenty of white, non=black/bi=racial/multi-racial/latino artists who sang R&B over the years that black audiences have supported and supported them when they were singing other styles of music...............I can give a whole list of peopl, just throwing out random names that come off the top of the head

1.) Teena Marie......black audiences supported her music when Pop radio wouldn't even bother to and never did..

2.) Debarge

3.) Lisa Lisa & Cult Jam

4.) Sheila E.

5.) Michael McDonald

6.) Rare Earth

7.) Average White Band

8.) Bob Scaggs-The Lowdown is one of the coolest/best r&b jams ever made

9.) Lisa Stansfield

10.) The Jets

11.) The Bee Gees

12.) George Michael (Wham)-this 1987 Faith deserved the recognition it got

13.) Madonna

14.) Blondie (Deborah Harry)

15.) Sheen Easton

16.) Kenny G

17.) Frankie Valli and the four seasons

18.) Hall & Oates (There greatest hits were r&b)

19.) Jon B

20.) Expose

21.) Yvette Elliman with I Cant Have You (I used to absolutely love that song)

22.) Kim Carnes with Betty Davis Eyes (heavy rotation on r&b radio)

23.) Pat Benatar-one of my favorite female performers ever...

24.) Joan Jett and the Blackhearts

25.) Survivor

26.) Van Halen

27.) Simply Red

28.) Phil Collins

29.) Prince's "The Family" with Screams of Passion

30.) Herb Albert

31.) The System

32.) Bobby Caldwell-What You Won't Do For Love......that's one of those jams where it will always stand the test of time

33.) Kenny Loggins with THIS IS IT......I rocked that song every chance I got, loved it

34.) Chrisotpher Cross with SAILING...I was 8 years old when that song came out and that's one of the most beautiful songs Iv'e ever heard in my life...then he had another jam classic Riding Like the Wind

35.) Ambroisa with Biggest Part of me...an all time classic

36.) Player.....Baby Come Back....doesn't get no better

37.) and there's no way I can forget Rod Stewart with Passion (looooved that jam) and his all time jam If You Want My Body, If You Think I'm Sexy.........that was definitely one of my favorite all time jams growing up.......big time.....

38.) Queen and all their all time hits especially Another Bites the Dust (#1 R&B) that Vanilla Ice ran off with.......and I loved their soundtrack for the Flash Gordon movie.......always played that whenever I heard it.....

39.) David Bowie......Let's Dance was one of the best r&b jams of 1983, so many people were jamming to that song from all races.....loved that song to to this very day right along with his classic "Fame"

40.) Culture Club...arguably the most popular new act of 1983-1984 and all their great hits then and they had allot of them

41.) Annie Lennox and the Eurythmics....Sweet Dreams was a smash hit, like that song came outta nowhere and it reached #1 (even though that video used to scare me out of my wits)......and I used to love that song Here Comes the Rain Again......that was a great jam..

That's forty plus examples right there and I know I'm missing some names...

The difference between those performers and the contemporaries of today.....

ALL those artists made contributions to the art form and to the genre.....they provided real creative input, they were authentic.

and when something is authentic, you're not gonna be accused of interpolating or appropriating....

THAT'S the difference between then and now

the real root of the problem goes way beyond the accusation of appropriating culture...

the real issue is being able and willing to develop your own sound and create your own music and when you do that, you will not be accused of such and it wouldn't matter what genre of music you gravitate to.......

what it all comes down to it...that's the problem in today's music industry......

when you are authentic, you will get your props and it doesn't matter what color you are.

[Edited 3/20/18 5:27am]

Robert Stringer needs to contact the CEO of Crest Whitening Strips.

mjscarousel said:

lrn36 said:

Below are the three CEOs of the three major record labels. They control all of mainstream pop, rnb, and rap. They control the access and the distribution. Mainstream artists don't just come out of nowhere. They are chosen and made. How are black people going to support artists if they don't know they exist? It doesn't work that way with anyone else. But the black community across 2000 miles of the US are supposed act as one and support unknown black artists who get little to no marketing support form their labels.

How have black artists abandoned R n B when we have Anderson Paak, Luke James, Sza, and Janelle Monae who have been doing the music. Just because Usher and Chris Brown dabbled in EDM that means every black artist gave it up?

Nothing is wrong with Bruno doing rnb music. The problem is he was chosen to be the industry's it boy while black artists who are producing the same kind of music have all but been shut out of the game. If this was about bring back an old school sound, why didn't Anderson Paak have a massive hit with Come Down? The answer is he didn't get the marketing support to make it big.

Check out my post in reply 10. It shows how much money and effort a record label puts in to make a hit song.

Robert Stringer CEO of Sony Music Entertainment

Lucian Grange CEO of Universal Music Group

Stephen Cooper CEO of Warner Music Group

[Edited 3/16/18 23:23pm]

I know how the system operates which is why we hear the same garbage music on the radio 24/7 and the same reason its the same tokens winning these purchased awards.

Outside of Usher and Chris Brown, I would not classify those other singers as "pop/r&b singers". With that being said, I still go back to the question of why aren't Black people questioning the quality of the music these Black pop stars make? Today's Black pop stars do not have to follow trends and they could have brought old sounds to the mainstream like Bruno. The reason why I am asking this question is because in the video many of the debaters argued that its difficult for Black pop stars and singers to sing R&B??? This is not true. There have been many successful BLACK pop stars who made R&B and were successful. In fact, Usher has a diamond album and the album is traditional R&B. He is the only Black pop star with a diamond album in the 21s century. So Bruno's peers could make R&B music if they wanted too.

Yes there are underground R&B artists that never get put on and backed by the machine. However, There are many talented artists regardless of the genre that are not backed by a machine (so this same argument can be made about any artist from any genre of music). That is simply the wack politics of the industry, that is not Bruno's fault. IMO, there are worse pop stars that get a ton of backing that don't deserve it. Bruno makes quality pop music compared to his peers.

The problem as I see it is this...

Beyonce, Usher, Chris Brown, Rihanna, etc have the backing and platforms where they could make tradtional R&B music but they choose NOT too. Instead, they choose to make trendy trash pop music that oddly gets labeled as "R&B" at the Grammy's...when its not (this is not helping R&B or Black music). This is the problem that needs to be addressed....not Bruno.

Bruno did not even become a super star making R&B. Unorthodox Jukebox is not an R&B album, its a Pop album. 24k was simply a good R&B record that people liked.

I am still confused as to why you all did not show this same outrage toward Justin Timberlake who has made a career off of appropriating Black legends and even mocked them. Its a lot of irony in you all defending that White man but then turn around and bash Bruno. I can't take these opinions seriously.

[Edited 3/17/18 1:28am]

TD3 said:

mjscarousel, girrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrl.



You have broken it down until it can't be broke no mo' but still folks wanna argue.

The attacks on the young man are unfounded and unfair. People have a right as we do not to like Mr. Mars music. In listening to his stuff, as I said I hear the influences... the one thing I like are his lyrics, his turn of phrase(s), they are truly his own. So far a solid musicians with room to grow. The guy is making music folks can dance to... no mid-temple shit. I find this whole conversation embarrassing; if you thought Mars music sucked fin,e we can agree to disagree but the mean spirited attacks and twisted logic is pathetic.

Bruno is an excellent all-around entertainer. He sings, plays instruments, writes songs and is a helluva lot of fun. People are tired of all the angry, angsty fuckery and want to feel good again. Bruno brings the party.

Did I mention he dances his ass off?


What's even more pathetic is people writng entire whiny essays on every single Bruno thread when that time would be better spent commenting on the many threads posted about other R&B artists they might like better. If they spent half the time supporting those artists that they do complaining about Bruno maybe it would help their careers.

Scorp said:

mjscarousel said:

I agree but its mainly Black people that have a issue with Bruno Mars. I think other races of people do not care.

If Bruno was a White man, I doubt Black people would be outrage about it and that is the sad part. There have been many White male singers over the years and since the beginning of time i.e. Bobby Caldwell, Jon B, JT, Robin Thicke, etc who have made careers making R&B music. They have also been accepted as R&B singers in the BLACK community. So its hyprocritical how some Black people want to bash Bruno Mars just because he is a "Multiracial" man making R&B music.

The issue some Black people have with Bruno Mars is foolish and borderline prejudice. IMO, You can not support White men making R&B music but then turn around and personally attack the ethnic background of a multi-racial man who does the same thing because the whole race argument becomes a mute issue. So we can accept White men (the main cultural appropiators in the industry) making our music but not Multiracial men? What? Its ignorant. Thes arguments are baseless and hyprocritical. Bruno has actually done MORE for the Black musicians that he is inspired by compared to those White R&B singers, that is the irony. Black people have wack priorities in terms of what they want to make a issue about when it comes to the community. Its OK if some don't like Bruno Mars but to make it seem as though his music is the worse thing that hit the radio is bullshit. There is far worse pop trash. I also don't think Bruno deserves to be personally attacked or insulted. That woman in that video said that if Bruno died tomorrow she would not care and bake a cake, That is just hateful and cruel, nobody deserves that.

why is it that black people always get chastised for a dilemna they did not create....

there's plenty of white, non=black/bi=racial/multi-racial/latino artists who sang R&B over the years that black audiences have supported and supported them when they were singing other styles of music...............I can give a whole list of peopl, just throwing out random names that come off the top of the head

1.) Teena Marie......black audiences supported her music when Pop radio wouldn't even bother to and never did..

2.) Debarge

3.) Lisa Lisa & Cult Jam

4.) Sheila E.

5.) Michael McDonald

6.) Rare Earth

7.) Average White Band

8.) Bob Scaggs-The Lowdown is one of the coolest/best r&b jams ever made

9.) Lisa Stansfield

10.) The Jets

11.) The Bee Gees

12.) George Michael (Wham)-this 1987 Faith deserved the recognition it got

13.) Madonna

14.) Blondie (Deborah Harry)

15.) Sheen Easton

16.) Kenny G

17.) Frankie Valli and the four seasons

18.) Hall & Oates (There greatest hits were r&b)

19.) Jon B

20.) Expose

21.) Yvette Elliman with I Cant Have You (I used to absolutely love that song)

22.) Kim Carnes with Betty Davis Eyes (heavy rotation on r&b radio)

23.) Pat Benatar-one of my favorite female performers ever...

24.) Joan Jett and the Blackhearts

25.) Survivor

26.) Van Halen

27.) Simply Red

28.) Phil Collins

29.) Prince's "The Family" with Screams of Passion

30.) Herb Albert

31.) The System

32.) Bobby Caldwell-What You Won't Do For Love......that's one of those jams where it will always stand the test of time

33.) Kenny Loggins with THIS IS IT......I rocked that song every chance I got, loved it

34.) Chrisotpher Cross with SAILING...I was 8 years old when that song came out and that's one of the most beautiful songs Iv'e ever heard in my life...then he had another jam classic Riding Like the Wind

35.) Ambroisa with Biggest Part of me...an all time classic

36.) Player.....Baby Come Back....doesn't get no better

37.) and there's no way I can forget Rod Stewart with Passion (looooved that jam) and his all time jam If You Want My Body, If You Think I'm Sexy.........that was definitely one of my favorite all time jams growing up.......big time.....

38.) Queen and all their all time hits especially Another Bites the Dust (#1 R&B) that Vanilla Ice ran off with.......and I loved their soundtrack for the Flash Gordon movie.......always played that whenever I heard it.....

39.) David Bowie......Let's Dance was one of the best r&b jams of 1983, so many people were jamming to that song from all races.....loved that song to to this very day right along with his classic "Fame"

40.) Culture Club...arguably the most popular new act of 1983-1984 and all their great hits then and they had allot of them

That's forty examples right there and I know I'm missing some names...

The difference between those performers and the contemporaries of today.....

ALL those artists made contributions to the art form and to the genre.....they provided real creative input, they were authentic.

and when something is authentic, you're not gonna be accused of interpolating or appropriating....

THAT'S the difference between then and now

the real root of the problem goes way beyond the accusation of appropriating culture...

the real issue is being able and willing to develop your own sound and create your own music and when you do that, you will not be accused of such and it wouldn't matter what genre of music you gravitate to.......

what it all comes down to it...that's the problem in today's music industry......

when you are authentic, you will get your props and it doesn't matter what color you are.

[Edited 3/19/18 20:04pm]

Really dude?

Whitney Houston is a total Clive Davis creation just as Janet is a creation of Jam and Lewis. Yet they are great entertainers.....you love Janet, right?

I could make a list just as long of great entertainers like the two I mentioned who dont innovate very much in and of themselves without relying on a whole army of writers, producers, etc. but have still achieved fame and recognition.

Stop with the double standards.

lrn36 said:

mjscarousel said:

Excellent post

Currently there are Black pop stars (that are put in a position) where they could have easily brought traditonal R&B sounds and classic R&B back into the mainstream (if this was the type of music they wanted to make).

This anger should be directed toward those Black pop singers who make trap music instead of R&B music...not Bruno. We need to be asking ourselves why are these rappers and BLACK pop stars destroying Black music with vulgar and degrading images and themes that gets passed off as "R&B music"... when its not (these are the real pressing issues when it comes to Black culture and our plight.... not Bruno). WHY are we not demanding BLACK pop singers to Sing R&B? Youre right, Black people priorities are screwed up as a community. We get mad at the wrong people instead of taking responsibility for these issues.

Bruno has never taken credit for originating R&B. He is always acknowledging his influences and he makes it clear that the music he makes is inspired by his musical inspirations. So how is he appropiating?

This anger against Bruno is misplaced (and a lot of it is rooted in ignorance and the belief that you have to be Black in order to make R&B music)

I wonder why the pop stars who actually cultural appropiate never get these types of criticisms. I wonder why the BLACK pop stars who have abandoned R&B never get this type of hate. .People are always complaining about how pop music has declined and how no one writes their music anymore or plays instruments or produces quality POP music and here comes Bruno...doing ALL of that and even introducing young people to classic sounds and people still bash him. I will never understand it. The criticism he gets is baseless and unfounded. There are far worse pop stars that make far worse music and there are other pop stars I would say are the real perpetuators of why R&B is non-existent.

Below are the three CEOs of the three major record labels. They control all of mainstream pop, rnb, and rap. They control the access and the distribution. Mainstream artists don't just come out of nowhere. They are chosen and made. How are black people going to support artists if they don't know they exist? It doesn't work that way with anyone else. But the black community across 2000 miles of the US are supposed act as one and support unknown black artists who get little to no marketing support form their labels.

How have black artists abandoned R n B when we have Anderson Paak, Luke James, Sza, and Janelle Monae who have been doing the music. Just because Usher and Chris Brown dabbled in EDM that means every black artist gave it up?

Nothing is wrong with Bruno doing rnb music. The problem is he was chosen to be the industry's it boy while black artists who are producing the same kind of music have all but been shut out of the game. If this was about bring back an old school sound, why didn't Anderson Paak have a massive hit with Come Down? The answer is he didn't get the marketing support to make it big.

Check out my post in reply 10. It shows how much money and effort a record label puts in to make a hit song.

Robert Stringer CEO of Sony Music Entertainment

Lucian Grange CEO of Universal Music Group

Stephen Cooper CEO of Warner Music Group

[Edited 3/16/18 23:23pm]

So you include Sza, (broke ass Rihanna wannabe) and leave out Sevyn Streeter, not to mention Ro James and The Weeknd?

SMH......

Actively promoting and supporting the artists you care about is much more useful than putting so much effort into whining about successful artists who will never be impacted by your tirades.

babynoz said:

Scorp said:

why is it that black people always get chastised for a dilemna they did not create....

there's plenty of white, non=black/bi=racial/multi-racial/latino artists who sang R&B over the years that black audiences have supported and supported them when they were singing other styles of music...............I can give a whole list of peopl, just throwing out random names that come off the top of the head

1.) Teena Marie......black audiences supported her music when Pop radio wouldn't even bother to and never did..

2.) Debarge

3.) Lisa Lisa & Cult Jam

4.) Sheila E.

5.) Michael McDonald

6.) Rare Earth

7.) Average White Band

8.) Bob Scaggs-The Lowdown is one of the coolest/best r&b jams ever made

9.) Lisa Stansfield

10.) The Jets

11.) The Bee Gees

12.) George Michael (Wham)-this 1987 Faith deserved the recognition it got

13.) Madonna

14.) Blondie (Deborah Harry)

15.) Sheen Easton

16.) Kenny G

17.) Frankie Valli and the four seasons

18.) Hall & Oates (There greatest hits were r&b)

19.) Jon B

20.) Expose

21.) Yvette Elliman with I Cant Have You (I used to absolutely love that song)

22.) Kim Carnes with Betty Davis Eyes (heavy rotation on r&b radio)

23.) Pat Benatar-one of my favorite female performers ever...

24.) Joan Jett and the Blackhearts

25.) Survivor

26.) Van Halen

27.) Simply Red

28.) Phil Collins

29.) Prince's "The Family" with Screams of Passion

30.) Herb Albert

31.) The System

32.) Bobby Caldwell-What You Won't Do For Love......that's one of those jams where it will always stand the test of time

33.) Kenny Loggins with THIS IS IT......I rocked that song every chance I got, loved it

34.) Chrisotpher Cross with SAILING...I was 8 years old when that song came out and that's one of the most beautiful songs Iv'e ever heard in my life...then he had another jam classic Riding Like the Wind

35.) Ambroisa with Biggest Part of me...an all time classic

36.) Player.....Baby Come Back....doesn't get no better

37.) and there's no way I can forget Rod Stewart with Passion (looooved that jam) and his all time jam If You Want My Body, If You Think I'm Sexy.........that was definitely one of my favorite all time jams growing up.......big time.....

38.) Queen and all their all time hits especially Another Bites the Dust (#1 R&B) that Vanilla Ice ran off with.......and I loved their soundtrack for the Flash Gordon movie.......always played that whenever I heard it.....

39.) David Bowie......Let's Dance was one of the best r&b jams of 1983, so many people were jamming to that song from all races.....loved that song to to this very day right along with his classic "Fame"

40.) Culture Club...arguably the most popular new act of 1983-1984 and all their great hits then and they had allot of them

That's forty examples right there and I know I'm missing some names...

The difference between those performers and the contemporaries of today.....

ALL those artists made contributions to the art form and to the genre.....they provided real creative input, they were authentic.

and when something is authentic, you're not gonna be accused of interpolating or appropriating....

THAT'S the difference between then and now

the real root of the problem goes way beyond the accusation of appropriating culture...

the real issue is being able and willing to develop your own sound and create your own music and when you do that, you will not be accused of such and it wouldn't matter what genre of music you gravitate to.......

what it all comes down to it...that's the problem in today's music industry......

when you are authentic, you will get your props and it doesn't matter what color you are.

[Edited 3/19/18 20:04pm]

Really dude?

Whitney Houston is a total Clive Davis creation just as Janet is a creation of Jam and Lewis. Yet they are great entertainers.....you love Janet, right?

I could make a list just as long of great entertainers like the two I mentioned who dont innovate very much in and of themselves without relying on a whole army of writers, producers, etc. but have still achieved fame and recognition.

Stop with the double standards.

so now Whitney and Janet is being trashed now...

it's that what it's coming down to.....really?

is that what this has all been reduced to

Whitney Houston wasn't a creation, a protege....she already had that voice years before Clive knew her.....she would have been a success on any label at any time.

as far as Janet, that's why I said develop your own sound, and it make take years to do.....yeah, Jam and Lewis were here producers, just as allot of great performers had great producers along the way..........that Rhythm Nation 1814 was her creation and her vision from the song content, videos, theme....the whole nine, they helped carry that vision through......Jam and Lewis will tell anyone that as they already had when the album was actually out.

I didn't mention the word fame, I said great music.

and it's not really about "innovating' as much as it is authenticity because you're not always going to innovate.

Do we really see where this thing is headed...

there's not gonna be an industry in 10 years, the clock is tickin

I wouldn't be surprised if they started re-releasing albums from the past and try and promote them as brand new as if its never been released........or have someone new on the scene remake the an entire album from the past and try and do the same.....

it wouldn't surprise me at all.......there are no parameters these days

[Edited 3/19/18 22:07pm]

babynoz said:

lrn36 said:

Below are the three CEOs of the three major record labels. They control all of mainstream pop, rnb, and rap. They control the access and the distribution. Mainstream artists don't just come out of nowhere. They are chosen and made. How are black people going to support artists if they don't know they exist? It doesn't work that way with anyone else. But the black community across 2000 miles of the US are supposed act as one and support unknown black artists who get little to no marketing support form their labels.

How have black artists abandoned R n B when we have Anderson Paak, Luke James, Sza, and Janelle Monae who have been doing the music. Just because Usher and Chris Brown dabbled in EDM that means every black artist gave it up?

Nothing is wrong with Bruno doing rnb music. The problem is he was chosen to be the industry's it boy while black artists who are producing the same kind of music have all but been shut out of the game. If this was about bring back an old school sound, why didn't Anderson Paak have a massive hit with Come Down? The answer is he didn't get the marketing support to make it big.

Check out my post in reply 10. It shows how much money and effort a record label puts in to make a hit song.

Robert Stringer CEO of Sony Music Entertainment

Lucian Grange CEO of Universal Music Group

Stephen Cooper CEO of Warner Music Group

[Edited 3/16/18 23:23pm]

So you include Sza, (broke ass Rihanna wannabe) and leave out Sevyn Streeter, not to mention Ro James and The Weeknd?

SMH......

Actively promoting and supporting the artists you care about is much more useful than putting so much effort into whining about successful artists who will never be impacted by your tirades.

Where are coming from with this statement? I mentioned a few newer artists who sprung to mind who have been doing RnB music. If you want to include the artists you mentioned, then go ahead. I already linked a few other artists previously in this thread. Whether, you personally like any one of those artists is not the point. People were saying that black people aren't doing RnB anymore. I was showing that it's not true at all.

Scorp said:

babynoz said:

Really dude?

Whitney Houston is a total Clive Davis creation just as Janet is a creation of Jam and Lewis. Yet they are great entertainers.....you love Janet, right?

I could make a list just as long of great entertainers like the two I mentioned who dont innovate very much in and of themselves without relying on a whole army of writers, producers, etc. but have still achieved fame and recognition.

Stop with the double standards.

so now Whitney and Janet is being trashed now...

it's that what it's coming down to.....really?

is that what this has all been reduced to

Whitney Houston wasn't a creation, a protege....she already had that voice years before Clive knew her.....she would have been a success on any label at any time.

as far as Janet, that's why I said develop your own sound, and it make take years to do.....yeah, Jam and Lewis were here producers, just as allot of great performers had great producers along the way..........that Rhythm Nation 1814 was her creation and her vision from the song content, videos, theme....the whole nine, they helped carry that vision through......Jam and Lewis will tell anyone that as they already had when the album was actually out.

I didn't mention the word fame, I said great music.

and it's not really about "innovating' as much as it is authenticity because you're not always going to innovate.

Do we really see where this thing is headed...

there's not gonna be an industry in 10 years, the clock is tickin

I wouldn't be surprised if they started re-releasing albums from the past and try and promote them as brand new as if its never been released........or have someone new on the scene remake the an entire album from teh past and try and do the same.....

it wouldn't surprise me at all.......

[Edited 3/19/18 22:00pm]

Hey, you haters fired the first shots so don't try to act innocent now 'cuz I don't take no prisoners.

As I said, the point is you guys double standards, not to bash Whitney or Janet. Whitney had one of the greatest voices in the history of music but by your own definition, not exactly authentic. Her entire image was a construct.

As far as Janet goes, Prince said it best.....genius' sister.

That is not to say that she isn't a great entertainer but she cannot and never has been a singer on Whitney's level and you know it. She shows her tatas though, right?

They have been rehashing and remaking movies for over a decade so tell me something I don't know bro. What you and many others fail to realize is that is one of the reasons Black Panther is such a monumental success. It's a marvel movie, yes but with a whole different perspective.

You old salts are too bitter, jaded and cynical to give these young cats a chance. Thank heaven Disney doesn't think like you guys. Irn36 was doing okay until she mentioned Sza.

My advice is the same to you as the other whiners. Instead of hating Bruno, whose trajectory your endless essays will not impact. Check out Luke James, Ro James, The Weeknd, Sevyn Streeter, Anderson Paak, Jacob Banks, Damien Marley etc..........ad infinitum and support them like Bruno's fans support him.

YOU are the one who has to change the industry but you cannot do that if you refuse to leave the 20th century.

lrn36 said:

babynoz said:

So you include Sza, (broke ass Rihanna wannabe) and leave out Sevyn Streeter, not to mention Ro James and The Weeknd?

SMH......

Actively promoting and supporting the artists you care about is much more useful than putting so much effort into whining about successful artists who will never be impacted by your tirades.

Where are coming from with this statement? I mentioned a few newer artists who sprung to mind who have been doing RnB music. If you want to include the artists you mentioned, then go ahead. I already linked a few other artists previously in this thread. Whether, you personally like any one of those artists is not the point. People were saying that black people aren't doing RnB anymore. I was showing that it's not true at all.

That is the point MJ was making. The people you cited are all pretty new but you pretend that blacks have been making good r&b all along, which simply is not true. In recent years the tide has begun to shift back toward good music but for a good long while all we could hear was the n-word, bitch, pimp, hoe, dope boys and killing shoved down our throats ad nauseum.

But all of that is neither here nor there because Bruno's fans actively promote and support him with their money. A huge problem with black folk is all we wanna do is talk as though these things happen by magic. Power is not free but we never wanna pay for anything. For example when Ro's cd drops on Friday I am buying one for me and two to give away, just like I did with Prince, Sade, etc. I buy more than one concert ticket too. I call radio stations, share on social media and drag everybody around me into the mix until they succumb to my demands.

Hell, I probably paid for at least a dozen of Prince's outfits over the years.

My point is the same. Shitting on Bruno Mars will do nothing to support the people you claim to prefer.

babynoz said:

Scorp said:

so now Whitney and Janet is being trashed now...

it's that what it's coming down to.....really?

is that what this has all been reduced to

Whitney Houston wasn't a creation, a protege....she already had that voice years before Clive knew her.....she would have been a success on any label at any time.

as far as Janet, that's why I said develop your own sound, and it make take years to do.....yeah, Jam and Lewis were here producers, just as allot of great performers had great producers along the way..........that Rhythm Nation 1814 was her creation and her vision from the song content, videos, theme....the whole nine, they helped carry that vision through......Jam and Lewis will tell anyone that as they already had when the album was actually out.

I didn't mention the word fame, I said great music.

and it's not really about "innovating' as much as it is authenticity because you're not always going to innovate.

Do we really see where this thing is headed...

there's not gonna be an industry in 10 years, the clock is tickin

I wouldn't be surprised if they started re-releasing albums from the past and try and promote them as brand new as if its never been released........or have someone new on the scene remake the an entire album from teh past and try and do the same.....

it wouldn't surprise me at all.......

[Edited 3/19/18 22:00pm]

Hey, you haters fired the first shots so don't try to act innocent now 'cuz I don't take no prisoners.

As I said, the point is you guys double standards, not to bash Whitney or Janet. Whitney had one of the greatest voices in the history of music but by your own definition, not exactly authentic. Her entire image was a construct.

As far as Janet goes, Prince said it best.....genius' sister.

That is not to say that she isn't a great entertainer but she cannot and never has been a singer on Whitney's level and you know it. She shows her tatas though, right?

They have been rehashing and remaking movies for over a decade so tell me something I don't know bro. What you and many others fail to realize is that is one of the reasons Black Panther is such a monumental success. It's a marvel movie, yes but with a whole different perspective.

You old salts are too bitter, jaded and cynical to give these young cats a chance. Thank heaven Disney doesn't think like you guys. Irn36 was doing okay until she mentioned Sza.

My advice is the same to you as the other whiners. Instead of hating Bruno, whose trajectory your endless essays will not impact. Check out Luke James, Ro James, The Weeknd, Sevyn Streeter, Anderson Paak, Jacob Banks, Damien Marley etc..........ad infinitum and support them like Bruno's fans support him.

YOU are the one who has to change the industry but you cannot do that if you refuse to leave the 20th century.

1.) I ain't hating on anyone.....and I've said countless times, a many a times, this problem is greater than the controversy directed at Bruno Mars......this same problem has lingered on for well over 30 years, it's that everything is coming to a head now..........there's been a ton of people coming down the pike has received the same criticism if not more from all backgrounds and cultures....this is nothing new......this is just the latest turn of events like the days on the calendar

2.) I didn't even bring up Janet or Whitney......not one iota.....

3.) Blank Panther is a movie, the discussion about the direction of music, that's two totally seperate entities

4.) it always comes down to insults in the end....insults don't bother me.....been there, done that...I don't have time to go back and forth with personal attacks

5.) the problem aint about leaving the 20th century, the real problem is that the industry can't get past the 20th century because they are for the most part in this pop music realm is trying to rehash what was done in decades past that was part of that century, ala 70s throught the mid 80s.......maybe if it stop doing that and start encouraging the young performers to cultivate their own talent instead of trying to "remind" people how good it use to be (that formula is not going to work forever, it's not), than the industry can really move forward in the 21st century and they can have their own legacy of people who be remembered on the same level as a Prince or MJ.......but we'll never know if they don't try........if Prince and MJ thought the same way, they wouldn't have been Prince or MJ....no it's not people who can acknowledge the problem not given these young cats a chance, it's the industry not giving these cats a chance to be their own artistic figures, they can have their own lifetime achievement awards......

6.) I keep saying, based on the 30 year trajectory of how the industry has evolved, the problem is not about cultural appropriation the way it occurred in the 50s/60s, but the lack of initiative to truly become there own artists

it's 2018 but they are trying to recreate 1988......

[Edited 3/19/18 22:53pm]

Scorp said:

babynoz said:

Hey, you haters fired the first shots so don't try to act innocent now 'cuz I don't take no prisoners.

As I said, the point is you guys double standards, not to bash Whitney or Janet. Whitney had one of the greatest voices in the history of music but by your own definition, not exactly authentic. Her entire image was a construct.

As far as Janet goes, Prince said it best.....genius' sister.

That is not to say that she isn't a great entertainer but she cannot and never has been a singer on Whitney's level and you know it. She shows her tatas though, right?

They have been rehashing and remaking movies for over a decade so tell me something I don't know bro. What you and many others fail to realize is that is one of the reasons Black Panther is such a monumental success. It's a marvel movie, yes but with a whole different perspective.

You old salts are too bitter, jaded and cynical to give these young cats a chance. Thank heaven Disney doesn't think like you guys. Irn36 was doing okay until she mentioned Sza.

My advice is the same to you as the other whiners. Instead of hating Bruno, whose trajectory your endless essays will not impact. Check out Luke James, Ro James, The Weeknd, Sevyn Streeter, Anderson Paak, Jacob Banks, Damien Marley etc..........ad infinitum and support them like Bruno's fans support him.

YOU are the one who has to change the industry but you cannot do that if you refuse to leave the 20th century.

1.) I ain't hating on anyone.....and I've said countless times, a many a times, this problem is greater than the controversy directed at Bruno Mars......this same problem has lingered on for well over 30 years, it's that everything is coming to a head now..........there's been a ton of people coming down the pike has received the same criticism if not more from all backgrounds and cultures....this is nothing new......this is just the latest turn of events like the days on the calendar

2.) I didn't even bring up Janet or Whitney......not one iota.....

3.) Blank Panther is a movie, the discussion about the direction of music, that's two totally seperate entities

4.) it always comes down to insults in the end....insults don't bother me.....been there, done that...I don't have time to go back and forth with personal attacks

5.) the problem aint about leaving the 20th century, the real problem is that the industry can't get past the 20th century because they are for the most part in this pop music realm is trying to rehash what was done in decades past that was part of that century, ala 70s throught the mid 80s.......maybe if it stop doing that and start encouraging the young performers to cultivate their own talent instead of trying to "remind" people how good it use to be (that formula is not going to work forever, it's not), than the industry can really move forward in the 21st century and they can have their own legacy of people who be remembered on the same level as a Prince or MJ.......but we'll never know if they don't try........if Prince and MJ thought the same way, they wouldn't have been Prince or MJ....no it's not people who can acknowledge the problem not given these young cats a chance, it's the industry not giving these cats a chance to be their own artistic figures

6.) I keep saying, based on the 30 year trajectory of how the industry has evolved, the problem is not about cultural appropriation the way it occurred in the 50s/60s, but the lack of initiative to truly become there own artists

it's 2018 but they are trying to recreate 1988......

If you intend to have a coherent discussion you have to follow your own words. YOU brought up movies, not me..... I brought up Janet and Whitney not to insult them but to point out your hypocrisy.

2. I have not insulted anyone, my superpower is detecting BS. Like I said, you guys fired the first shots. Don't get in your feelings when I shoot back.

3. Bernie Worrell called Prince a "re-worker", which I do not consider an insult.

4. Bruno and others are cultivating their own talent, you just can't see past your blinders.

As I pointed out a hundred times already rather than whine why not do something. I even made some suggestions. The problem with black people is we are always looking for what "they" ought to do instead of taking matters into our own hands. The industry will do whatever the hell YOU demand of it, not the other way around.

I don't have time to go back and forth with people who don't understand that power concedes nothing without a demand. SMH. I suggest you figure out who is worthy of your support and get busy instead of wasting more time with garment-rending and weeping and knashing of teeth.

babynoz said:

Scorp said:

so now Whitney and Janet is being trashed now...

it's that what it's coming down to.....really?

is that what this has all been reduced to

Whitney Houston wasn't a creation, a protege....she already had that voice years before Clive knew her.....she would have been a success on any label at any time.

as far as Janet, that's why I said develop your own sound, and it make take years to do.....yeah, Jam and Lewis were here producers, just as allot of great performers had great producers along the way..........that Rhythm Nation 1814 was her creation and her vision from the song content, videos, theme....the whole nine, they helped carry that vision through......Jam and Lewis will tell anyone that as they already had when the album was actually out.

I didn't mention the word fame, I said great music.

and it's not really about "innovating' as much as it is authenticity because you're not always going to innovate.

Do we really see where this thing is headed...

there's not gonna be an industry in 10 years, the clock is tickin

I wouldn't be surprised if they started re-releasing albums from the past and try and promote them as brand new as if its never been released........or have someone new on the scene remake the an entire album from teh past and try and do the same.....

it wouldn't surprise me at all.......

[Edited 3/19/18 22:00pm]

Hey, you haters fired the first shots so don't try to act innocent now 'cuz I don't take no prisoners.

As I said, the point is you guys double standards, not to bash Whitney or Janet. Whitney had one of the greatest voices in the history of music but by your own definition, not exactly authentic. Her entire image was a construct.

As far as Janet goes, Prince said it best.....genius' sister.

That is not to say that she isn't a great entertainer but she cannot and never has been a singer on Whitney's level and you know it. She shows her tatas though, right?

They have been rehashing and remaking movies for over a decade so tell me something I don't know bro. What you and many others fail to realize is that is one of the reasons Black Panther is such a monumental success. It's a marvel movie, yes but with a whole different perspective.

You old salts are too bitter, jaded and cynical to give these young cats a chance. Thank heaven Disney doesn't think like you guys. Irn36 was doing okay until she mentioned Sza.

My advice is the same to you as the other whiners. Instead of hating Bruno, whose trajectory your endless essays will not impact. Check out Luke James, Ro James, The Weeknd, Sevyn Streeter, Anderson Paak, Jacob Banks, Damien Marley etc..........ad infinitum and support them like Bruno's fans support him.

YOU are the one who has to change the industry but you cannot do that if you refuse to leave the 20th century.

I'm a he not she, but I get it. You don't like Sza. How do you think Bruno would do without major label support? If he was just an independent musician putting his stuff on soundcloud and youtube. Do you think he would have the same success? Most of these artists are getting maybe 5 to 6 million views on youtube. Chris Brown tops out with almost 70 million view for Fine China. Bruno gets 500 to 900 million views. He's probably getting a cut of the ad revenue just from the videos. Those views come from record labels putting a lot of money and effort in making sure his music is everywhere like clothing stores, coffee shops, tv commercials, billboards, talk shows, NBA, NFL, tv shows, and movies. Only the big three labels can get you that kind of exposure which can lead to massive sales.

Black RnB artists aren't getting that investment or exposure. I'm not making it up, the artists are saying it themselves. The message is clear. Stephanie Mills said it "They want black music, but not from us."

lrn36 said:

babynoz said:

Hey, you haters fired the first shots so don't try to act innocent now 'cuz I don't take no prisoners.

As I said, the point is you guys double standards, not to bash Whitney or Janet. Whitney had one of the greatest voices in the history of music but by your own definition, not exactly authentic. Her entire image was a construct.

As far as Janet goes, Prince said it best.....genius' sister.

That is not to say that she isn't a great entertainer but she cannot and never has been a singer on Whitney's level and you know it. She shows her tatas though, right?

They have been rehashing and remaking movies for over a decade so tell me something I don't know bro. What you and many others fail to realize is that is one of the reasons Black Panther is such a monumental success. It's a marvel movie, yes but with a whole different perspective.

You old salts are too bitter, jaded and cynical to give these young cats a chance. Thank heaven Disney doesn't think like you guys. Irn36 was doing okay until she mentioned Sza.

My advice is the same to you as the other whiners. Instead of hating Bruno, whose trajectory your endless essays will not impact. Check out Luke James, Ro James, The Weeknd, Sevyn Streeter, Anderson Paak, Jacob Banks, Damien Marley etc..........ad infinitum and support them like Bruno's fans support him.

YOU are the one who has to change the industry but you cannot do that if you refuse to leave the 20th century.

I'm a he not she, but I get it. You don't like Sza. How do you think Bruno would do without major label support? If he was just an independent musician putting his stuff on soundcloud and youtube. Do you think he would have the same success? Most of these artists are getting maybe 5 to 6 million views on youtube. Chris Brown tops out with almost 70 million view for Fine China. Bruno gets 500 to 900 million views. He's probably getting a cut of the ad revenue just from the videos. Those views come from record labels putting a lot of money and effort in making sure his music is everywhere like clothing stores, coffee shops, tv commercials, billboards, talk shows, NBA, NFL, tv shows, and movies. Only the big three labels can get you that kind of exposure which can lead to massive sales.

Black RnB artists aren't getting that investment or exposure. I'm not making it up, the artists are saying it themselves. The message is clear. Stephanie Mills said it "They want black music, but not from us."

Beg your pardon for mistaking you for a lady, sir.

You do realize that Bruno has been an entertainer since he was four years old? You do realize that Motown dropped him, right? Nobody handed this dude anything he hasn't worked his ass off for.

It's not as cut and dried as you make it seem and you didn't really address any of my points but okay.

If we are gonna change lanes then I have to cite Justin Bieber who cannot sing and did not get his initual push from any record label. Yes, he was a youtube indie artist before any label even heard of him. OTOH, CardiB is everywhere and does not even have Bieber's level of talent. Why? They have similar outcomes because THE PEOPLE support them. NO ONE at any record label can MAKE anyone give these people views on youtube or make you download their songs just because of exposure alone. Sooner or later you guys will have to admit that music consumers have to bear some of the responsibility for what is selling out there today.

If people never do anyhing but talk nothing changes.

lrn36 said:

If he was just an independent musician putting his stuff on soundcloud and youtube. Do you think he would have the same success? Most of these artists are getting maybe 5 to 6 million views on youtube. Chris Brown tops out with almost 70 million view for Fine China. Bruno gets 500 to 900 million views. He's probably getting a cut of the ad revenue just from the videos. Those views come from record labels putting a lot of money and effort in making sure his music is everywhere like clothing stores, coffee shops, tv commercials, billboards, talk shows, NBA, NFL, tv shows, and movies. Only the big three labels can get you that kind of exposure which can lead to massive sales.

Black RnB artists aren't getting that investment or exposure. I'm not making it up, the artists are saying it themselves. The message is clear. Stephanie Mills said it "They want black music, but not from us."

If white people want to buy R&B music from white people, that's their business, not yours or Stephanie Mills. People have no obligation to buy or listen to anything from anyone. The goal of the major labels is to make money and if Justin Timberlake is more likely to sell than Janelle Monae, well that's what they're gonna push. Why would they spend more money on an act that is less likely to sell or get views. Again, hip hop is popular and most of the acts are black, so black artists are promoted. How many non-black R&B performers do you see on the current Top 40 compared to rappers? There's very little R&B by anybody, black or non-black. I just counted, the Top 40 singles on the Hot 100 has 22 rap songs & songs by singers with a guest rapper. That's 22 out of 40 songs. 11 of the Top 20 albums are also hip hop, maybe 12 because I think the Hamilton Broadway Cast album is also rap. There's more rap than any other genre on the upper parts of the charts. So that basically means hip hop is profitable than R&B. The mainstream is more into hip hop than R&B and promoting it is not going to get people to like it any more. If the general public didn't like rap music, the labels won't spend money pushing it. The main R&B chart itself is called Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs. So that should tell you something.

babynoz said:

lrn36 said:

I'm a he not she, but I get it. You don't like Sza. How do you think Bruno would do without major label support? If he was just an independent musician putting his stuff on soundcloud and youtube. Do you think he would have the same success? Most of these artists are getting maybe 5 to 6 million views on youtube. Chris Brown tops out with almost 70 million view for Fine China. Bruno gets 500 to 900 million views. He's probably getting a cut of the ad revenue just from the videos. Those views come from record labels putting a lot of money and effort in making sure his music is everywhere like clothing stores, coffee shops, tv commercials, billboards, talk shows, NBA, NFL, tv shows, and movies. Only the big three labels can get you that kind of exposure which can lead to massive sales.

Black RnB artists aren't getting that investment or exposure. I'm not making it up, the artists are saying it themselves. The message is clear. Stephanie Mills said it "They want black music, but not from us."

Beg your pardon for mistaking you for a lady, sir.

You do realize that Bruno has been an entertainer since he was four years old? You do realize that Motown dropped him, right? Nobody handed this dude anything he hasn't worked his ass off for.

It's not as cut and dried as you make it seem and you didn't really address any of my points but okay.

If we are gonna change lanes then I have to cite Justin Bieber who cannot sing and did not get his initual push from any record label. Yes, he was a youtube indie artist before any label even heard of him. OTOH, CardiB is everywhere and does not even have Bieber's level of talent. Why? They have similar outcomes because THE PEOPLE support them. NO ONE at any record label can MAKE anyone give these people views on youtube or make you download their songs just because of exposure alone. Sooner or later you guys will have to admit that music consumers have to bear some of the responsibility for what is selling out there today.

If people never do anyhing but talk nothing changes.

No problem. I know Bruno was dropped by Motown. Nobody is questioning his work ethic. The point is his label at some point made a choice to go all in with him. To give him all the resources and support he needed to become a major success. The question is will a black artist of similar talent and drive get the same support in this era? People are saying a lot has changed in the last few years and black RnB artists aren't not getting the support they used to.

Yeah, but Cardi B didn't really breakthrough until she signed with Atlantic. I do agree her mixtapes and online ratchet girl persona got her the attention of the label. But she wouldn've blown up without label support. And now they'e getting label mate Bruno to cosign her to blow her up even more. They obviously think they have another Nicki Minaj on their hands.

Bieber was signed by Usher when he was 13. He had a lot of followers on youtube, but his success with have been limited without signing to Island Records. We are still in an age where making a viable living as a recording artist depends on getting major label support or an extremely high end independent label with connections. Most of these youtube mussicians are probably barely getting by.

The more people who hear the music, the higher percentage who will like or buy the music. It doesn't even have to be the majority. It's a numbers game.

MickyDolenz said:

lrn36 said:

If he was just an independent musician putting his stuff on soundcloud and youtube. Do you think he would have the same success? Most of these artists are getting maybe 5 to 6 million views on youtube. Chris Brown tops out with almost 70 million view for Fine China. Bruno gets 500 to 900 million views. He's probably getting a cut of the ad revenue just from the videos. Those views come from record labels putting a lot of money and effort in making sure his music is everywhere like clothing stores, coffee shops, tv commercials, billboards, talk shows, NBA, NFL, tv shows, and movies. Only the big three labels can get you that kind of exposure which can lead to massive sales.

Black RnB artists aren't getting that investment or exposure. I'm not making it up, the artists are saying it themselves. The message is clear. Stephanie Mills said it "They want black music, but not from us."

If white people want to buy R&B music from white people, that's their business, not yours or Stephanie Mills. People have no obligation to buy or listen to anything from anyone. The goal of the major labels is to make money and if Justin Timberlake is more likely to sell than Janelle Monae, well that's what they're gonna push. Why would they spend more money on an act that is less likely to sell or get views. Again, hip hop is popular and most of the acts are black, so black artists are promoted. How many non-black R&B performers do you see on the current Top 40 compared to rappers? There's very little R&B by anybody, black or non-black. I just counted, the Top 40 singles on the Hot 100 has 22 rap songs & songs by singers with a guest rapper. That's 22 out of 40 songs. 11 of the Top 20 albums are also hip hop, maybe 12 because I think the Hamilton Broadway Cast album is also rap. There's more rap than any other genre on the upper parts of the charts. So that basically means hip hop is profitable than R&B. The mainstream is more into hip hop than R&B and promoting it is not going to get people to like it any more. If the general public didn't like rap music, the labels won't spend money pushing it. The main R&B chart itself is called Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs. So that should tell you something.

They used to say that about black films, but Get Out, Girls Trip, and Black Panther blew that theory up. Is it that white people don't want to buy RnB music or they're not be exposed to it? Is it just the market or a choice by the labels? Donald Glover had sucess with Redbone, but his audience followed him from his comedy act and the show Community. He already had a built in audience for his music under Childish Gambino.

Yes, rap still has successful black artists, but we are talking about RnB.

babynoz said:

Scorp said:

1.) I ain't hating on anyone.....and I've said countless times, a many a times, this problem is greater than the controversy directed at Bruno Mars......this same problem has lingered on for well over 30 years, it's that everything is coming to a head now..........there's been a ton of people coming down the pike has received the same criticism if not more from all backgrounds and cultures....this is nothing new......this is just the latest turn of events like the days on the calendar

2.) I didn't even bring up Janet or Whitney......not one iota.....

3.) Blank Panther is a movie, the discussion about the direction of music, that's two totally seperate entities

4.) it always comes down to insults in the end....insults don't bother me.....been there, done that...I don't have time to go back and forth with personal attacks

5.) the problem aint about leaving the 20th century, the real problem is that the industry can't get past the 20th century because they are for the most part in this pop music realm is trying to rehash what was done in decades past that was part of that century, ala 70s throught the mid 80s.......maybe if it stop doing that and start encouraging the young performers to cultivate their own talent instead of trying to "remind" people how good it use to be (that formula is not going to work forever, it's not), than the industry can really move forward in the 21st century and they can have their own legacy of people who be remembered on the same level as a Prince or MJ.......but we'll never know if they don't try........if Prince and MJ thought the same way, they wouldn't have been Prince or MJ....no it's not people who can acknowledge the problem not given these young cats a chance, it's the industry not giving these cats a chance to be their own artistic figures

6.) I keep saying, based on the 30 year trajectory of how the industry has evolved, the problem is not about cultural appropriation the way it occurred in the 50s/60s, but the lack of initiative to truly become there own artists

it's 2018 but they are trying to recreate 1988......

If you intend to have a coherent discussion you have to follow your own words. YOU brought up movies, not me..... I brought up Janet and Whitney not to insult them but to point out your hypocrisy.

2. I have not insulted anyone, my superpower is detecting BS. Like I said, you guys fired the first shots. Don't get in your feelings when I shoot back.

3. Bernie Worrell called Prince a "re-worker", which I do not consider an insult.

4. Bruno and others are cultivating their own talent, you just can't see past your blinders.

As I pointed out a hundred times already rather than whine why not do something. I even made some suggestions. The problem with black people is we are always looking for what "they" ought to do instead of taking matters into our own hands. The industry will do whatever the hell YOU demand of it, not the other way around.

I don't have time to go back and forth with people who don't understand that power concedes nothing without a demand. SMH. I suggest you figure out who is worthy of your support and get busy instead of wasting more time with garment-rending and weeping and knashing of teeth.

1. I brought up a SOUNDTRACKS to a movie, not the motion picture itself

2.) Don't believe for a second that I'm being caught up in feeling.....when someone starts calling somone else old/old tarts or whatever that was, that would be considered more of an insult than a gesture if a poll was taken....

3.) Prince, just like all great luminary figures, they all have influences but they eventually develop their own sound, and in Prince's case, the pioneer for the sound of an entire region...Minneapolis sound, produced his own work and countless others, don't even need to go down the line on that one

4.) I don't have blinders, but windshield wipers to know that when Uptown Funk was the major hit, and years before it, that he was going to be subjected to legal claims of infringement.....and when it happened, I wasn't shocked or surprised because nothing is different now than it was 30 years when sampling became prevalent and now it's at the point where the samples are being sampled. A group like De La Soul, they're music is not even available online/digital format because through contractual litigation during the time they was sampling music in the late 80s, in 2018, the label they are currently signed with has to go through every song they did featuring samples before their music can be available now, because allot of cheks will have to be shelled out from the people they were sampling from that didn't get shelled out when they started out........so their careers are now hamstrung......that situation is worse than the accusations of alledged cultural appropriation............

5.) The system does what it eventually wants to do and back who they eventually want to back and when they want to back them...history has proven that. All I been seeing is black people constantly attacked for a problem that extends decades upon decades, and half centuries beyond this topic thread right here. Since your'e so hung on on thinking black people have never confronted problems within the music industry, I would suggest you check out a 2 hour long interview of legendary radio host Bob Law and how he explains in thorough detail the steps being taken 30 years ago waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before this current performer stepped on the scene what was being done to de-emphasis and neutralize the very demands that you're talking about...anyone can type Bob Law's name in the youtube search engine and that interview will be the first clip that pops up.

6.) all the talk about derogatory content/lyrics that have been featured in music over the past 28 years, that was not a problem then, particulary since black people are being chastised, here, people in the community WOULD bring their concerns to radio stations/record labels if they even felt the slightest hint something derogatory was about to come down the pike, they were doing that then, but steps were taken to disenfranchise those efforts in which Bob Law talks about, but I already know that's not known. I had to learn that because I didn't know.

7.) and if my responses on this topic was read all the way through, I never SAID that Bruno Mars was a cultural appropriator, I said he interpolates music from the past. That's a big difference. You can really only appropriate from something that occurs in the present moment, not necessarily for something that was done over a quarter century ago

8.) I know how to discuss a topic w/out talking about group of people or individuals, or chastising a community and stick to the very issue at hand.....

9.) The first step to correcting a problem, or even a addressing it is to acknowledge that the problem exists. Takes allot of power to do that. Half the battle is already won at that point

10.) Ten years from now, I'm very interested to see where things stand based on the current trajectory

[Edited 3/20/18 3:34am]

I like this discussion.

Just about everyone involved makes valid points and there are numerous factors ar play here so you can't be completely hot or cold on this subject.

At the end of the day, however, Bruno is not the problem and if anything, anybody claiming that music isn't as good as it once was (it isn't) should actually be in support of Bruno. I don't for the life of me understand how people are quicker to say Bruno's music is trash compared to just about everything else on the charts now.

lrn36 said:

babynoz said:

Beg your pardon for mistaking you for a lady, sir.

You do realize that Bruno has been an entertainer since he was four years old? You do realize that Motown dropped him, right? Nobody handed this dude anything he hasn't worked his ass off for.

It's not as cut and dried as you make it seem and you didn't really address any of my points but okay.

If we are gonna change lanes then I have to cite Justin Bieber who cannot sing and did not get his initual push from any record label. Yes, he was a youtube indie artist before any label even heard of him. OTOH, CardiB is everywhere and does not even have Bieber's level of talent. Why? They have similar outcomes because THE PEOPLE support them. NO ONE at any record label can MAKE anyone give these people views on youtube or make you download their songs just because of exposure alone. Sooner or later you guys will have to admit that music consumers have to bear some of the responsibility for what is selling out there today.

If people never do anyhing but talk nothing changes.

No problem. I know Bruno was dropped by Motown. Nobody is questioning his work ethic. The point is his label at some point made a choice to go all in with him. To give him all the resources and support he needed to become a major success. The question is will a black artist of similar talent and drive get the same support in this era? People are saying a lot has changed in the last few years and black RnB artists aren't not getting the support they used to.

Yeah, but Cardi B didn't really breakthrough until she signed with Atlantic. I do agree her mixtapes and online ratchet girl persona got her the attention of the label. But she wouldn've blown up without label support. And now they'e getting label mate Bruno to cosign her to blow her up even more. They obviously think they have another Nicki Minaj on their hands.

Bieber was signed by Usher when he was 13. He had a lot of followers on youtube, but his success with have been limited without signing to Island Records. We are still in an age where making a viable living as a recording artist depends on getting major label support or an extremely high end independent label with connections. Most of these youtube mussicians are probably barely getting by.

The more people who hear the music, the higher percentage who will like or buy the music. It doesn't even have to be the majority. It's a numbers game.

Your points are well taken, but the thing is, what you say is true of the majority of artists out there regardless if they are on a label or not. Any given label is only going to put their $$$ behind a handful of artists no matter how many they may have on the roster. Guess which ones are going to get the big budget? The ones the public supports. If people turn their back on the likes of the CardiB's of the world, they will have a short shelf life. Back in the day they were called one hit wonders because people didn't have the same level of tolerance for fuckery that they do now.

Seeking a career in the recording industry is similar to any other branch of entertainment. Only a small percentage are ever going to make it big.

Great discussion.

Scorp said:

babynoz said:

If you intend to have a coherent discussion you have to follow your own words. YOU brought up movies, not me..... I brought up Janet and Whitney not to insult them but to point out your hypocrisy.

2. I have not insulted anyone, my superpower is detecting BS. Like I said, you guys fired the first shots. Don't get in your feelings when I shoot back.

3. Bernie Worrell called Prince a "re-worker", which I do not consider an insult.

4. Bruno and others are cultivating their own talent, you just can't see past your blinders.

As I pointed out a hundred times already rather than whine why not do something. I even made some suggestions. The problem with black people is we are always looking for what "they" ought to do instead of taking matters into our own hands. The industry will do whatever the hell YOU demand of it, not the other way around.

I don't have time to go back and forth with people who don't understand that power concedes nothing without a demand. SMH. I suggest you figure out who is worthy of your support and get busy instead of wasting more time with garment-rending and weeping and knashing of teeth.

1. I brought up a SOUNDTRACKS to a movie, not the motion picture itself

2.) Don't believe for a second that I'm being caught up in feeling.....when someone starts calling somone else old/old tarts or whatever that was, that would be considered more of an insult than a gesture if a poll was taken....

3.) Prince, just like all great luminary figures, they all have influences but they eventually develop their own sound, and in Prince's case, the pioneer for the sound of an entire region...Minneapolis sound, produced his own work and countless others, don't even need to go down the line on that one

4.) I don't have blinders, but windshield wipers to know that when Uptown Funk was the major hit, and years before it, that he was going to be subjected to legal claims of infringement.....and when it happened, I wasn't shocked or surprised because nothing is different now than it was 30 years when sampling became prevalent and now it's at the point where the samples are being sampled. A group like De La Soul, they're music is not even available online/digital format because through contractual litigation during the time they was sampling music in the late 80s, in 2018, the label they are currently signed with has to go through every song they did featuring samples before their music can be available now, because allot of cheks will have to be shelled out from the people they were sampling from that didn't get shelled out when they started out........so their careers are now hamstrung......that situation is worse than the accusations of alledged cultural appropriation............

5.) The system does what it eventually wants to do and back who they eventually want to back and when they want to back them...history has proven that. All I been seeing is black people constantly attacked for a problem that extends decades upon decades, and half centuries beyond this topic thread right here. Since your'e so hung on on thinking black people have never confronted problems within the music industry, I would suggest you check out a 2 hour long interview of legendary radio host Bob Law and how he explains in thorough detail the steps being taken 30 years ago waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before this current performer stepped on the scene what was being done to de-emphasis and neutralize the very demands that you're talking about...anyone can type Bob Law's name in the youtube search engine and that interview will be the first clip that pops up.

6.) all the talk about derogatory content/lyrics that have been featured in music over the past 28 years, that was not a problem then, particulary since black people are being chastised, here, people in the community WOULD bring their concerns to radio stations/record labels if they even felt the slightest hint something derogatory was about to come down the pike, they were doing that then, but steps were taken to disenfranchise those efforts in which Bob Law talks about, but I already know that's not known. I had to learn that because I didn't know.

7.) and if my responses on this topic was read all the way through, I never SAID that Bruno Mars was a cultural appropriator, I said he interpolates music from the past. That's a big difference. You can really only appropriate from something that occurs in the present moment, not necessarily for something that was done over a quarter century ago

8.) I know how to discuss a topic w/out talking about group of people or individuals, or chastising a community and stick to the very issue at hand.....

9.) The first step to correcting a problem, or even a addressing it is to acknowledge that the problem exists. Takes allot of power to do that. Half the battle is already won at that point

10.) Ten years from now, I'm very interested to see where things stand based on the current trajectory

[Edited 3/20/18 3:34am]

You already know what you need to do if you really want change. Excessive yearning for yesteryear is not going to cut it bro....that is just the fact of the matter.

There is nothing wrong with making a critical comment about an artist because no one is above criticism. When it becomes a problem is when you let the artist's name become a red flag waved in your face to the point where you feel uncontrollably compelled to make the exact same comments that you made about them yesterday, last week, last month and last year and will probably continue to do so ten years from now, not realizing that you haven't done anything to meaningfully impact the situation.

I have given you a few suggestions so I don't know what else I can say to get through to you. I can give you one example though.....last month they made a change in the programming at my local radio station I did not appreciate. I emailed the station and within three days got a reply asking for my phone number. The program manager called me back and we talked for around forty minutes. Long story short, I did not get everything I wanted but I did see some changes within a week.

That's how it's done, Bro. But if you want to give up, roll over and play dead that is your perogative.

Btw, I am very familiar with Bob Law. He is a frequent guest on Carl's show. The point you are missing is that Mr. Law doesn't just sit around whining, he acts. Big difference.

Never assume what you think I don't know about.

MotownSubdivision said:

I like this discussion. Just about everyone involved makes valid points and there are numerous factors ar play here so you can't be completely hot or cold on this subject. At the end of the day, however, Bruno is not the problem and if anything, anybody claiming that music isn't as good as it once was (it isn't) should actually be in support of Bruno. I don't for the life of me understand how people are quicker to say Bruno's music is trash compared to just about everything else on the charts now.

Thank you!