MotownSubdivision said:

lrn36 said:

Well, the young woman in the video is clearly not a Bruno fan. LOL I looked up some of her videos and she does like getting a rise out of people by making controversial statements. She does make a lot of valid points about how the industry treats black artists and seems to be pretty knowledgable about the history of black music. She does admit that Bruno is an extremely talented singer and performer. His massive success and accollades for what she deems as directly mimicking black artists from the 90s is what she finds concerning. Her greater question is are black artists being pushed out for R n B for good? It's not like this hasn't happened before. How many people know that a black woman was a big influencer of rock and roll?

Overall, she's not wrong but she chose the wrong person to target for cultural appropriation. Bruno is part Filipino which has African roots and while he isn't outwardly black, him making the music he does is symbolic of just how wide-rsnging and influential black music is as well as coming back full circle. Bruno is no Michael or Prince. As much as I like him, I know he is nowhere near those levels of talent and star power (and I'm positive he feels the same way); the bar has been lowered so far that a "wedding singer" such as him is actually popular but that's the climate today. In an era where the likes of Taylor Swift, Beyonce, Katy Perry, Post Malone, Future, Chris Brown, Miley Cyrus, Justin Timberlake and Ed Sheeran are among some of the top names, you cannot say standards have not descended. Bruno is a part of that group but he is easily the most talented of this crop of acts and easily the most authentic. You gotta take what you can get these days and Bruno is everything I've wanted to see in a mainstream pop artist today. It isn't his fault the industry is for some stupid reason, stuck in the past or he has to share the stage with his disappointing contemporaries or that many black artists have abandoned their roots in favor of pimping themselves for money. He's making the music that moves him and it's moving many others in more ways than one. Finally, we have somebody who dropped the laid back, shirtless, sweaty R&B that has remained the same for the past 20+ years. I'll always refer to Morris Day in regards to this: Brothers, don't be cool Women like ot some times when you act a fool R&B has been "too cool" for too long and its gotten old. Bruno remembered when R&B music was "foolish" and cool at the same time and I appreciate him for that. Other brothers may have shades of those retro R&B sounds but they're mostly downbeat midtempo tunes while Bruno's are typically upbeat. Those other artists could be making the same music Bruno has but 1. They aren't 2. They wouldn't be getting the same spotlight a non-black like Bruno gets In either instance, it is not the fault of Bruno. Don't hate the player, hate the game and the other players who actually exploit it (i.e. Miley, Katy, Post Malone, Iggy Azalea and just about every new white rapper coming out of the woodwork like Lil Pump and Lil Xan).

The point Seren and others are making is there is a whole scene of black American and British artists making uptempo 90s influenced RnB years before Bruno did and they didn't get any major support.

Bruno comes in and gets credit for bringing it back. It's really not that different than Elvis getting credit for creating rock n roll. Little Richard had to go on every talk show in the 80s to set the record straight. Or its like Madonna pulling from Black gay culture and getting credit for vogue.

Mark Ronson and Bruno took Trinidad James song and video All Gold Everything as the basis for Uptown Funk. He got a writing credit and cut in the profits, but you have to wonder if it was a geniune or parody of hip hop culture.

Here's an uptempo 90s throwback by Mack Wilds.

And let's not forget Janelle Monae. She's been doing the uptempo retro funk thing for almost a decade and still hasn't had a major hit. I'm actually shocked she still managed to stay in the game. And she is just as good if not better than Bruno as a songwriter and performer.

[Edited 3/13/18 11:04am]

MotownSubdivision said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I agree, I mean the guy is representing an 'ethnic' region that is almost invisible outside of of 1/2 of Dwayne Johnson aka the Rock

Bruno's father is 1/2 Hawaiian and his mother is Polynesian.

Let em get on the map for sure. They are native people.

Reading through the post you quoted, I can't believe all the misspellings and grammar errors I made. Typing on your phone is convenient but dang... Anyway, yeah this is an educational moment in time for some people. On that note, Bruno, being part Filipino, is black. I get what "Sensei" means by racial ambiguity but it's not like Bruno himself hasn't said what he is. We have a boundless reservoir of information at our fingertips yet people can't be bothered to do a quick Google search?

Yeah it happens, and I swear until after you hit 'post or send' you don't see the errors. The cyber-world we live in.

I typed Polynesian in error

I have read Hebrew(by the way of the Ukrain)-Puerto Rican(father) Filipino-mother

Spain(Spanish) Chinese admixture in distant past

He should contact Finding Your Roots and have the dna test etc

His grandfather Peter Gene Hernandez

peedub said:

i wonder how this argument could be juxtaposed against the success of the 'black panther' motion picture in an industry traditionally controlled by white jews...or, more generally, the superhero phenomenon; which is, in essence, a jewish power fantasy from it's very inception. the black panther, specifically, was created by 40 something white jews...

is that 'cultural appropriation'? everybody seems to be pretty proud of the movie's success...

and, since i'm here...god, that sensei whozumwhatsits is an utter dumb ass...can we make a rule that if she's being discussed in a thread or any of her videos are linked to, it must be specified in the thread title to ensure my ability to avoid exposure to her bullshit?

[Edited 3/13/18 10:07am]

that's bad

[Edited 3/13/18 12:05pm]

lrn36 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

MotownSubdivision said:

lrn36 said:

The point Seren and others are making is there is a whole scene of black American and British artists making uptempo 90s influenced RnB years before Bruno did and they didn't get any major support.

Bruno comes in and gets credit for bringing it back. It's really not that different than Elvis getting credit for creating rock n roll. Little Richard had to go on every talk show in the 80s to set the record straight. Or its like Madonna pulling from Black gay culture and getting credit for vogue.

Mark Ronson and Bruno took Trinidad James song and video All Gold Everything as the basis for Uptown Funk. He got a writing credit and cut in the profits, but you have to wonder if it was a geniune or parody of hip hop culture.

Here's an uptempo 90s throwback by Mack Wilds.

And let's not forget Janelle Monae. She's been doing the uptempo retro funk thing for almost a decade and still hasn't had a major hit. I'm actually shocked she still managed to stay in the game. And she is just as good if not better than Bruno as a songwriter and performer.

[Edited 3/13/18 11:04am]

The only thing "taken" from "All Gold Everything" was the "Don't believe me just watch!" line. James should be grateful he got any sort of credit with his trash song. I get their point and I do agree with it, I can't agree with it enough but they're using the wrong person as a scapegoat. Bruno, being Filipino and Puerto Rican, is in fact, black. He's not as dark as me and probably you but we as a people come in a variety of shades, tints and tones anyway. Bruno's natural skin color fits within that spectrum and furthermore he actually has African in his blood. Attack Miley Cyrus, Iggy Azalea, Post Malone and make more of a case for JT instead of bashing Bruno. Criticize Usher, Chris Brown, NeYo and this infestation of trap rappers (those black artists who have name value and some degree of clout) for making the music they chose to make instead of what Bruno makes. And most importantly, continue to focus on the root of the problem and launch an assault on the music industry for being so stupid and still marginalizing the many talented artists we have, especially those of color despite history showing how stupid it is. Elvis was taken advantage of, he was exploited and only had so much control over his career. At least Bruno has the choice to make the music he does and is free to say where he got it from and if people actually did their research, they'll see that the music he's making is actually his music to make. I mean this response with no disrespect toward you but this subject fires me up. [Edited 3/13/18 12:12pm]

She has criticized those artists and the industry that supports them. Usher, Chris brown, and Neyo were pushed into the edm sound because no one was buying straight r n b from black artists. Now all of a sudden 90s r n b is hot from an artist who is not black. If the whole 90s sound was hot, why aren't we seeing more success from these other artists. Why didn't Anderson Paak sell big with a catchy song like Come Down when he can sing, dance, write, and play instruments just like Bruno?

People are more caught up with defending Bruno than dealing with the points that are being brought up about how the industry treats black artists. If Bruno is a true ally to the people who created and developed the music he loves so much, then he should be willing to take the heat to draw attention to a greater problem.

[Edited 3/13/18 12:35pm]

lrn36 said:

MotownSubdivision said:

lrn36 said: The only thing "taken" from "All Gold Everything" was the "Don't believe me just watch!" line. James should be grateful he got any sort of credit with his trash song. I get their point and I do agree with it, I can't agree with it enough but they're using the wrong person as a scapegoat. Bruno, being Filipino and Puerto Rican, is in fact, black. He's not as dark as me and probably you but we as a people come in a variety of shades, tints and tones anyway. Bruno's natural skin color fits within that spectrum and furthermore he actually has African in his blood. Attack Miley Cyrus, Iggy Azalea, Post Malone and make more of a case for JT instead of bashing Bruno. Criticize Usher, Chris Brown, NeYo and this infestation of trap rappers (those black artists who have name value and some degree of clout) for making the music they chose to make instead of what Bruno makes. And most importantly, continue to focus on the root of the problem and launch an assault on the music industry for being so stupid and still marginalizing the many talented artists we have, especially those of color despite history showing how stupid it is. Elvis was taken advantage of, he was exploited and only had so much control over his career. At least Bruno has the choice to make the music he does and is free to say where he got it from and if people actually did their research, they'll see that the music he's making is actually his music to make. I mean this response with no disrespect toward you but this subject fires me up. [Edited 3/13/18 12:12pm]

She has criticized those artists and the industry that supports them. Usher, Chris brown, and Neyo were pushed into the edm sound because no one was buying straight r n b from black artists. Now all of a sudden 90s r n b is hot from an artist who is not black. If the whole 90s sound was hot, why aren't we seeing more success from these other artists. Why didn't Anderson Paak sell big with a catchy song like Come Down when he can sing, dance, write, and play instruments just like Bruno?

People are more caught up with defending Bruno than dealing with the points that are being brought up about how the industry treats black artists. If Bruno is a true ally to the people who created and developed the music he loves so much, then he should be willing to take the heat to draw attention to a greater problem.

[Edited 3/13/18 12:35pm]

I totally agree with that. I already stated in another thread, that every artist, wether they black or not, that they should protest against this industry. But giving one artist shit for a much bigger problem, doesn't help and it won't solve it. Because it's not in Bruno's power as it wasn't in Elvis' or Eminem's (both elvis and Eminem even stated that the black artists, the inventors of Rock and Hip Hop, deserve so much more credit. Eminem even criticised the white media in particular because they put him on a pedestal he didn't really deserve). Single artists won't change the industry, because these people only give a fuck if every single one turns their back on them and show them that their way doesn't work anymore. It's not only in Bruno's or JT's hands to make a change, everybody that's bothered by that should protest against it.

lrn36 said:

lrn36 said:

lrn36 said:

If the whole 90s sound was hot, why aren't we seeing more success from these other artists.

Well, when Sha Na Na & The Stray Cats were popular, there weren't really any other acts doing rockabilly, early rock, & doo wop having popular records. Sha Na Na had a TV show.

In the 1980s David Lee Roth did Just A Gigolo, Phil Collins released 1960's sounding singles like Can't Hurry Love, Groovy Kind Of Love, & Two Hearts, Billy Joel's An Innocent Man album, and the success of the oldies Big Chill soundtracks. Other than the soundtracks, these were already established acts doing retro sounds, not really new acts. Also in the 1980s, there was a resurrection of the popularity of The Beatles to a new audience when their albums were re-released on CD and The Monkees when MTV showed reruns of their sitcom. There were new versions of old TV shows like Gidget, Perry Mason, & Leave It To Beaver. The Motown 25 special was primarily music from the 1960s & early 1970s and it was a big hit too.

In the 1990s, the big sales of Natalie Cole's duets with her father and her old style jazz albums, plus the popularity of the Benedictine Monks chants album, didn't pave the way for other acts doing the same amount of business. I think it's more that a particular singer or group that became popular, like Bruno Mars, not the sound per se, like there wasn't any Susan Boyle clones and she was really popular for a brief period.

There have been I Love The 90s tours that have been successful in recent years and reboots of old shows like Fuller House and Rosanne. There is also the popularity of Lip Sync Battle, which is not 1990s music only, and can be considered a celebrity version of the 1980s show Puttin' On The Hits. There's commercials in recent times with MC Hammer & Salt N Pepa. I've heard that the House Party movies are going to be rebooted, but I don't know if Kid N Play are involved. Recently on Saturday Night Live, there was a skit with Chance The Rapper based on 90s male groups like Boyz II Men, Color Me Badd, and All 4 One. So there is some 90s nostalgia. So Bruno fits with that just like Sha Na Na fits with Happy Days, American Graffiti, & Grease. 1 or 2 acts get really popular doing a retro sound for a particular era that is in.

Micky is bringing some decent perspective. I'm cool with Mars being our new Sha Na Na.

MotownSubdivision said:

lrn36 said:

She has criticized those artists and the industry that supports them. Usher, Chris brown, and Neyo were pushed into the edm sound because no one was buying straight r n b from black artists. Now all of a sudden 90s r n b is hot from an artist who is not black. If the whole 90s sound was hot, why aren't we seeing more success from these other artists. Why didn't Anderson Paak sell big with a catchy song like Come Down when he can sing, dance, write, and play instruments just like Bruno?

People are more caught up with defending Bruno than dealing with the points that are being brought up about how the industry treats black artists. If Bruno is a true ally to the people who created and developed the music he loves so much, then he should be willing to take the heat to draw attention to a greater problem.

[Edited 3/13/18 12:35pm]

Bruno is black though. What more is he supposed to do? He already works with several black musicians and singers and makes no bones about it, he speaks up for black culture by acknowledging the people who made his music possible including his influences and has vouched for black artists. He is taking the heat, there's really no way he can't. It's not as though he's getting defensive and lashing back at the people personally attacking him. Once again, this obvious problem with the industry is not his fault and trying to imply that Bruno himself is part of the problem is attacking a benign symptom instead of the true disease. We all agree on one thing: the music industry fucks over black artists and other artists of color. Bruno is an artist of color whose heritage is rooted in Africa. Bruno is not part of the problem; the people defending him aren't disagreeing with the race problem of the music industry; they're just saying Bruno is not part of the problem and given what we know, he isn't. There are far better examples of a culture vulture than someone who doesn't hide the fact that he loves making black music and his career wouldn't be possible without black people.

That's kind of a stretch to say he is black. We don't know for sure and he isn't claiming to be black. His father could be only Taino Indian and European for all we know. Until their is confirmation from him, then I'm going to assume no. The Joan and Constance Bennett were two famous actress from the 1930s who had a black Jamaican grandfather. And the late talk show host Morton Downey Jr. was their nephew. Do you think black people are claiming them as black?

The issue is white artists like Bobby Caldwell, Teena Marie, Michael McDonald, and Jon B saw success along side black artists. No one was saying there were the face of black music. Now we have a situation where black artists are not only be sidelined, they're not getting signed at all. Black singers have been doing the type of music Bruno is doing but were not getting the marketing push. And now Bruno is being pushed as the lone face of R n B and some how its black artist's fault for not stepping up.

lrn36 said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Bruno is black though.

That's kind of a stretch to say he is black.

yeah,Bruno is not black.He is half Filipino and half Puerto Rican.

lrn36 said:

lrn36 said:

And now Bruno is being pushed as the lone face of R n B and some how its black artist's fault for not stepping up.

Most R&B acts at any time had little or no crossover. The mainstream media have always focused on the pop Top 40. So in the 1980s, to the the general public, Lionel Richie, Michael Jackson, or Billy Ocean was the face of R&B, not Stephanie Mills, as she didn't really crossover like they did or Whitney Houston and Kool & The Gang did. Jody Watley got Top 40 airplay and Howard Hewett didn't. Howard's Quiet Storm style had little pop appeal, unlike Jody's dance music. Notice that Lionel still has some popularity today and is on American Idol, when the Commodores with JD Nicholas as an act today are mostly forgotten. Some of the acts now that are said to be traditional R&B are more neo-soul or mid tempo and they won't get any airplay other than maybe on the "adult R&B" format. Neo-soul has about as much appeal as zydeco to Top 40. The mainstream popular R&B now is more hip hop based, like DJ Khaled. Bruno is just an exception to Beyonce, Rihanna, & Fifth Harmony. They're popular and their music doesn't really sound like what Bruno is doing. Bruno is an exception like the Stray Cats. You can't say that black artists are not popular now when Lil' Wayne & Drake have more Hot 100 hits than anyone, including Elvis, Michael Jackson, Mariah Carey, & The Beatles. Mariah is one that became known for doing collabos with rappers. Hip hop itself has crossed over in a way that R&B never has. Hip hop has replaced rock n roll as the biggest genre in the US. These hotep types that make these videos probably would call a Lionel Richie or a Whitney Houston a "coon" because they made music on purpose to get the white audience. They're the ones who will say Erik Killmonger is the good guy and T'Challa is a sellout to the white CIA agent Everett Ross and the UN.

SoulAlive said:

lrn36 said:

That's kind of a stretch to say he is black.

yeah,Bruno is not black.He is half Filipino and half Puerto Rican.

MotownSubdivision said:

lrn36 said:

That's kind of a stretch to say he is black. We don't know for sure and he isn't claiming to be black. His father could be only Taino Indian and European for all we know. Until their is confirmation from him, then I'm going to assume no. The Joan and Constance Bennett were two famous actress from the 1930s who had a black Jamaican grandfather. And the late talk show host Morton Downey Jr. was their nephew. Do you think black people are claiming them as black?

The issue is white artists like Bobby Caldwell, Teena Marie, Michael McDonald, and Jon B saw success along side black artists. No one was saying there were the face of black music. Now we have a situation where black artists are not only be sidelined, they're not getting signed at all. Black singers have been doing the type of music Bruno is doing but were not getting the marketing push. And now Bruno is being pushed as the lone face of R n B and some how its black artist's fault for not stepping up.

I'm well aware of what the issue is. It's not his fault though and while I don't see Bruno as the face of R&B, I accept him over someone as snakey as JT or as outright exploitative as Post Malone who doesn't give a damn about black culture but has no problem collecting checks for it. You won't see him crediting the people Bruno has. You can defend Bruno and still speak out against the nature of the music industry. It doesn't matter if other black people don't claim them as their own. If they have a black biological grandfather, they have black in them. Dwayne Johnson (The Rock) is half black, half Samoan and while he identifies as Samoan that doesn't erase the fact that he's still black. Obama is half white but identifies as black, does that mean he's not white too? [Edited 3/13/18 15:08pm]

I was talking about it from a cultural angle. Bruno seems like he gets his dark complexion from his filipina mom. Some Filipinos do have Moorish ancestry in their background, but so do Sicilians. And they're not claiming to be black. Actor Nicholas Turturro is Silician, but he could pass for Dominican. The point is he is not black.

You might not see Bruno as the face of RnB, but there are a lot of young people who think Bruno created this sound. Will we see a time when a black artist dominates country music so much that they have the biggest sales and win all the awards? And they have to remind people that white people contributed to that music. When we get to that point, let me know.

l

lrn36 said:

MotownSubdivision said:

lrn36 said:

I was talking about it from a cultural angle. Bruno seems like he gets his dark complexion from his filipina mom. Some Filipinos do have Moorish ancestry in their background, but so do Sicilians. And they're not claiming to be black. Actor Nicholas Turturro is Silician, but he could pass for Dominican. The point is he is not black.

You might not see Bruno as the face of RnB, but there are a lot of young people who think Bruno created this sound. Will we see a time when a black artist dominates country music so much that they have the biggest sales and win all the awards? And they have to remind people that white people contributed to that music. When we get to that point, let me know.

l

I still believe there's a chance of Bruno being black but I'll let that go. That may be true but a lot of these children have parents and grandparents who know better so it would be wise of them to educate their offspring. Also with the internet, no telling what else a kid might stumble upon because they listened to a Bruno song. In any case, Bruno is not an appropriator and people need to realize the difference between that and inspiration.

It's cool. Thanks for the civilized discussion.

MotownSubdivision said:

I still believe there's a chance of Bruno being black but I'll let that go.

What difference does that make? How many Filipinos or Latinos have had mainsteam success in any format in the US or-non white, non-black acts in general? Apl.de.ap from the Black Eyed Peas is Filipino and Taboo is Mexican. But the Black Eyes Peas didn't really get mainstream success until they got Fergie rather than with their previous singer Kim Hill. Japanese singer Kyu Sakamoto had a hit in the 1960s, and Native American band Redbone had a hit in the 1970s. Hawaiian singer Hon Ho was popular on TV in the 1970s, but wasn't really on the radio though. Japanese band Hiroshima had some success in the smooth jazz field. Probably the most successful as far as Top 40 goes is Gloria Estefan and then Carlos Santana with classic rock. There's acts who are really big with their ethnicity/race like Vicente Fernandez, Romeo Santos, & Selena but less so with mainstream America (aka the white audience). Probably because they primarily sing in Spanish.

MotownSubdivision said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yeah it happens, and I swear until after you hit 'post or send' you don't see the errors. The cyber-world we live in.

I typed Polynesian in error

I have read Hebrew(by the way of the Ukrain)-Puerto Rican(father) Filipino-mother

Spain(Spanish) Chinese admixture in distant past

He should contact Finding Your Roots and have the dna test etc

His grandfather Peter Gene Hernandez

I want to trace my ancestry as well; we apparently got some Scots in our blood and that piques my curiosity. People, however, only need to refer to Dr. Google to find out the history of Puerto Ricans and Filipinos to see how they trace back to the motherland that is Africa. If "Sensei" and everyone who agrees with her really knew what they were talking about, they wouldn't be pointing at Bruno in accusation with their noses turned up.

lol well people have to research more than a google search. Google will pull up a lot of stuff that don't agree.

I know the history of Puerto Ricans (and Filipinos)
Puerto rico has a lot of people with Tiano ancestry and admixture. Whether it is Euro-Native(Tiano) or African-Native(Tiano) or Euro-African and there are people who are predominately Euro those predominately African those predominately Native

But to call Filipinos 'black' is not culturally on point. They too are heavily Native.

MickyDolenz said:

MotownSubdivision said:

I still believe there's a chance of Bruno being black but I'll let that go.

What difference does that make? How many Filipinos or Latinos have had mainsteam success in any format in the US or-non white, non-black acts in general? Apl.de.ap from the Black Eyed Peas is Filipino and Taboo is Mexican. But the Black Eyes Peas didn't really get mainstream success until they got Fergie rather than with their previous singer Kim Hill. Japanese singer Kyu Sakamoto had a hit in the 1960s, and Native American band Redbone had a hit in the 1970s. Hawaiian singer Hon Ho was popular on TV in the 1970s, but wasn't really on the radio though. Japanese band Hiroshima had some success in the smooth jazz field. Probably the most successful as far as Top 40 goes is Gloria Estefan and then Carlos Santana with classic rock. There's acts who are really big with their ethnicity/race like Vicente Fernandez, Romeo Santos, & Selena but less so with mainstream America (aka the white audience). Probably because they primarily sing in Spanish.

Don Ho was all over the radio when I was a kid, I'm Prince's age. I get your point, but you are rewriting history. Charlie Pride, who JJ mentioned upthread for being out of his box, was huge. Sammy Davis Jr was a God. Ditto Ray Charles. Johnny Mathis, Ed Ames all got lots of radio play. If Ritchie Valens had lived longer he would have had a monster career.

[Edited 3/13/18 17:35pm]

poppys said:
Don Ho was all over the radio when I was a kid, I'm Prince's age. I get your point, but you are rewriting history. Charlie Pride, who JJ mentioned upthread for being out of his box, was huge. Sammy Davis Jr was a God. Ditto Ray Charles. Johnny Mathis, Ed Ames all got lots of radio play. If Ritchie Valens had lived longer he would have had a monster career.

I said non-white, non-black performers. Very few have had mainstream success (Top 40) in the US compared to white & black performers. Some black acts have had mainstream success since the Louis Armstrong, Bessie Smith, & Count Basie era and George W. Johnson & Scott Joplin to an extent before that. The ones I named like Redbone were considered "one hit wonders". Charley Pride was popular with the country audience, not really the mainstream so much. Not like a Kenny Rogers, Dolly Parton, Garth Brooks, Shania Twain, and Dixie Chicks. George Strait had more Top 10s on the country chart, but nothing really on the Hot 100. So George isn't really mainstream and neither is Charley Pride, Melre Haggard, and George Jones. The Hot 100 is the mainstream chart. All the others like R&B, country, jazz, dance, alternative rock, etc. are sub-charts for niche audiences. There's a reason that some people on the sub charts try to crossover to the main chart like Michael Jackson & Kenny Rogers

Teddy Riley Weighs In On Bruno Mars

Rachaell Davis

Mar, 13, 2018

<div class="inner-container"> <img src="https://cdn-img.essence.com/sites/default/files/styles/1x1_lg/public/1520966032/Teddy%20Riley.jpg?itok=DLA6D37I" alt="Teddy Riley"> </div>

@teddyriley1 Instagram page

"Well, besides us having the same birthday [laughs], we're destined to get together and people always have a way of speaking to someone and that was his way of speaking to me," Riley said of Bruno Mars' Grammy acceptance speech. "I honored it. I truly honored it."

Speaking specifically about the influence of his sound on Bruno's music, the Grammy Award-winning entertainer had only positive things to say.

"First of all, it brings our stock up –Babyface, Jimmy Jam, Terry Lewis and myself— and that puts us even more in the game and helps to sustain us. It's a known fact that God blesses us to bless others, and then sometimes, you get the blessing. But, I'm more of a giver, I like to give. So, him giving....sometimes we don't understand receiving a gift. But, the most incredible gift to be given, for me, is someone paying homage. So, I feel wonderful about it."

https://www.essence.com/festival/2018-essence-festival/teddy-riley-bruno-mars-cultural-appropriation

MickyDolenz said:

poppys said:
Don Ho was all over the radio when I was a kid, I'm Prince's age. I get your point, but you are rewriting history. Charlie Pride, who JJ mentioned upthread for being out of his box, was huge. Sammy Davis Jr was a God. Ditto Ray Charles. Johnny Mathis, Ed Ames all got lots of radio play. If Ritchie Valens had lived longer he would have had a monster career.

I said non-white, non-black performers. Very few have had mainstream success (Top 40) in the US compared to white & black performers. Some black acts have had mainstream success since the Louis Armstrong, Bessie Smith, & Count Basie era and George W. Johnson & Scott Joplin to an extent before that. The ones I named like Redbone were considered "one hit wonders". Charley Pride was popular with the country audience, not really the mainstream so much. Not like a Kenny Rogers, Dolly Parton, Garth Brooks, Shania Twain, and Dixie Chicks. George Strait had more Top 10s on the country chart, but nothing really on the Hot 100. So George isn't really mainstream and neither is Charley Pride, Melre Haggard, and George Jones. The Hot 100 is the mainstream chart. All the others like R&B, country, jazz, dance, alternative rock, etc. are sub-charts for niche audiences. There's a reason that some people on the sub charts try to crossover to the main chart like Michael Jackson & Kenny Rogers

You are making your formula prove what you want it to. As I said, I understand your point, but radio play was not the way you are describing. Do you even remember pre-internet?

MotownSubdivision said:

lrn36 said:

The point Seren and others are making is there is a whole scene of black American and British artists making uptempo 90s influenced RnB years before Bruno did and they didn't get any major support.

Bruno comes in and gets credit for bringing it back. It's really not that different than Elvis getting credit for creating rock n roll. Little Richard had to go on every talk show in the 80s to set the record straight. Or its like Madonna pulling from Black gay culture and getting credit for vogue.

Mark Ronson and Bruno took Trinidad James song and video All Gold Everything as the basis for Uptown Funk. He got a writing credit and cut in the profits, but you have to wonder if it was a geniune or parody of hip hop culture.

Here's an uptempo 90s throwback by Mack Wilds.

And let's not forget Janelle Monae. She's been doing the uptempo retro funk thing for almost a decade and still hasn't had a major hit. I'm actually shocked she still managed to stay in the game. And she is just as good if not better than Bruno as a songwriter and performer.

[Edited 3/13/18 11:04am]

The only thing "taken" from "All Gold Everything" was the "Don't believe me just watch!" line. James should be grateful he got any sort of credit with his trash song. I get their point and I do agree with it, I can't agree with it enough but they're using the wrong person as a scapegoat. Bruno, being Filipino and Puerto Rican, is in fact, black. He's not as dark as me and probably you but we as a people come in a variety of shades, tints and tones anyway. Bruno's natural skin color fits within that spectrum and furthermore he actually has African in his blood. Attack Miley Cyrus, Iggy Azalea, Post Malone and make more of a case for JT instead of bashing Bruno. Criticize Usher, Chris Brown, NeYo and this infestation of trap rappers (those black artists who have name value and some degree of clout) for making the music they chose to make instead of what Bruno makes. And most importantly, continue to focus on the root of the problem and launch an assault on the music industry for being so stupid and still marginalizing the many talented artists we have, especially those of color despite history showing how stupid it is. Elvis was taken advantage of, he was exploited and only had so much control over his career. At least Bruno has the choice to make the music he does and is free to say where he got it from and if people actually did their research, they'll see that the music he's making is actually his music to make. I mean this response with no disrespect toward you but this subject fires me up. [Edited 3/13/18 12:12pm]

poppys said:

You are making your formula prove what you want it to. As I said, I understand your point, but radio play was not the way you are describing. Do you even remember pre-internet?

It's not my formula, it's Billboard magazine. The entire point of Billboard is to track what is popular by sales and/or airplay and the main chart is the Hot 100, and the songs at 40 and above are considered "real" hits and the Top 10 are the biggest hits. If a song only gets to 89 on the Hot 100, it's not considered a hit. In some cases there's songs popular in certain areas of the US, but are not nationwide hits, they're considered regional hits, and so wouldn't be considered "mainstream". I used to read it every week and I listened to Top 40 and I've never heard Charley Pride on it. That's why I said mainstream, like getting featured on Entertainment Tonight or getting on the cover of People magazine and get a lot of sales.

Country radio is not mainstream, it's for country music fans and R&B stations are for R&B fans. Top 40 pop radio is mainstream. Getting airplay on country and R&B radio stations have nothing to do with Top 40 pop. Isn't that the entire point of this thread, is that Bruno Mars (or Eminem) is accepted by mainstream audience in the US, and not the black singers that are said to be doing similar music? The mainstream is where you get the bigger sales, and so more people know about it. Charley Pride & George Jones didn't sell like Fleetwood Mac, Madonna, Michael Jackson, or New Kids On The Block. It's not common to get huge sales from a niche audience. Like an act is not going to get Thriller like sales from just the R&B or just the country audience. It has to crossover to the mainstream pop audience to become a hit there. At this point, hip hop doesn't have to crossover like R&B did. It automatically gets airplay. That's why that most popular rappers are still black. There wasn't a rap equivalent of Pat Boone that got the bigger airplay from the Little Richard. The first mainstream popular rappers were Run DMC and the Fat Boys. The Beastie Boys came about a little later, and sold a lot with Licensed To Ill. But MC Hammer sold just as well as Vanilla Ice. LL Cool J got more songs played on Top 40 than Vanilla Ice did. Tone Loc album sold more than 3rd Base did and Tone Loc got more Top 40 airplay. The popularity of Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince led to the Fresh Prince getting a TV sitcom. They also were the first hip hop act to win a grammy. In more recent times Nelly went diamond just like Eminem did. People now might not realize that Nelly's first 2 or 3 albums were big sellers. So being white didn't make a rapper an automatic success over a black person like in the early rock n roll days or the swing jazz era. If that was the case, then hick hop rappers would be popular now and that's more underground. Hick hop is pretty much all white, except for a few like Cowboy Troy.

There's also the case that people in general are going to buy stuff from their own race before another, like white people buy white artists, black people buy black artists, Mexicans buy Mexicans, and so on. If you go to the average white person, they're going to have more white artists in their collection than Chinese and black artists. A black person is more likely to have movies with black actors on home video than a white person would. The mainstream white audience are more likely to have movies with "crossover" black actors like Eddie Murphy, Will Smith, & Denzel Washington and maybe Medea movies than they would a Dolemite or something like Claudine. The Cosby Show got a mainstream audience, Meet The Browns, not so much.

Don Ho was all over top forty radio when I was a little kid. My parents and their friends bought his albums. I'm saying what I actually remember about top forty radio. The formula was not as lockstep because as you said, there were different folks listening to their local sound all over the US and passing it around and DJs had sway too. The cookie cutter industry was not as in place logistically.

poppys said:

Don Ho was all over top forty radio when I was a little kid. My parents and their friends bought his albums. I'm saying what I actually remember about top forty radio. The formula was not as lockstep because as you said, there were different folks listening to their local sound all over the US and passing it around and DJs had sway too. The cookie cutter industry was not as in place logistically.

Being popular in one area means it's not mainstream. Mainstream means the most people know about it over the entire United States heard it and/or bought it and it charted high and sold enough copies to reach the upper parts of the pop singles or pop albums chart (Top 200). Being known worldwide is really mainstream like Michael Jackson. In the movie equivalent, Star Wars is mainstream known, but Amazon Women On The Moon or Dynamite Chicken aren't. A mainstream extremely popular singer/group is well known enough to get toys and games or to sell clothes and other merchandise. Like Rihanna has a cosmetic line. More people have at least heard of The Beatles, even if they don't know their music, than heard of Don Ho. Which makes them mainstream or a household name. So he is no way more known than The Beatles or Elvis Presley.

lrn36 said: