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Thread started 12/29/17 5:46am

purple05

Why has least talented Madonna outlasted her peers?

MJ, Prince & Whitney sadly passed so young. Since we don't know any of these people, there are no definite answers only guesses.
With that said, Madonna is the least talented of her peers but it seems she didn't let the pressure of the business get to her like they did.

I personally think she wasn't held to the sane standard. There was no pressure to be perfect because quite honestly people were shocked that she was still around. Even if she had drug problems, she'd never be made into a laughing stock like MJ and Whitney were. Many black artist just aren't given the same room to mess up like their white counterparts are.

Overall I think it's the pressure. Pressure from fans and society as well as from family. MJ and Whitney also had messed up family situations that let to their demise. Prince it's hard to pinpoint because at the moment not much is known
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Reply #1 posted 12/29/17 8:38am

NorthC

The way I see it, Prince just worked himself to death: dancing in high heels, touring, rehearsing and recording hours at a time with little sleep- that will get to you when you grow older. Just my twocents.
I don't know too much about Madonna, but I'm not sure if she ever "messed up." Or if she's the "least talented". She surely has a nose for picking up the right trends at the right moment. She said in an interview (I forgot where) that she is more in touch with the real world than Prince and Michael Jackson. That may sound a bit mean, but there may be some truth in it. Prince never really had a life outside of his music. (But it was the life he wanted and he gave us fantastic music, so who am I to judge.) And Jackson was just caught in a golden cage...
[Edited 12/29/17 10:25am]
I may disagree with everything you say, but I will defend your right to say it.
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Reply #2 posted 12/29/17 9:03am

Graycap23

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Talented?

Lol.....if u say so.

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #3 posted 12/29/17 10:14am

purple05

Graycap23 said:

Talented?


Lol.....if u say so.


Talent comes in many different forms and to different degrees. So yes Madonna does have talent
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Reply #4 posted 12/29/17 10:42am

MickyDolenz

purple05 said:

Talent comes in many different forms and to different degrees. So yes Madonna does have talent

He always puts down Madonna & The Beatles. Nothing new about Gray's comment.

For 75 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #5 posted 12/29/17 12:22pm

purple05

NorthC said:

The way I see it, Prince just worked himself to death: dancing in high heels, touring, rehearsing and recording hours at a time with little sleep- that will get to you when you grow older. Just my twocents.
I don't know too much about Madonna, but I'm not sure if she ever "messed up." Or if she's the "least talented". She surely has a nose for kicking up the right trends at the right moment. She said in an interview (I forgot where) that she is more in touch with the real world than Prince and Michael Jackson. That may sound a bit mean, but there may be some truth in it. Prince never really had a life outside of his music. (But it was the life he wanted and he gave us fantastic music, so who am I to judge.) And Jackson was just caught in a golden cage...

Yes she is least talented. That's not a diss just an observation.
MJ, Whitney and Prince all overworked themselves. There is an interview with Jimmy Jam where he says he never met anyone who worked harder than MJ and since he worked with Prince it says alot. There were lots of pressure on them to be 'perfect
Madonna didn't say she was more in touch with the real world and that's not true. MJ & Prince were very in touch with the real world or they wouldn't have had the careers they did. In MJs case he lost his sense of self perception and refused to change his actions which led to his demise. Everyone's reality is different.

Anyways Madonna said something to the effect that she doesn't take herself so seriously and that they should loosen up. That's what I mean by the pressure of being held to such a high standard. They were celebrated for their seemingly extraordinary talents. They wouldn't have had a career doing what Nadonna did. The standards for black artist are very different
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Reply #6 posted 12/29/17 12:22pm

purple05

MickyDolenz said:



purple05 said:


Talent comes in many different forms and to different degrees. So yes Madonna does have talent

He always puts down Madonna & The Beatles. Nothing new about Gray's comment.


Ok thanks... I won't take him serious lol
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Reply #7 posted 12/29/17 12:33pm

uPtoWnNY

purple05 said:

Yes she is least talented. That's not a diss just an observation.

She's talented at reinventing herself.

As far as music talent.....meh

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Reply #8 posted 12/29/17 2:40pm

Graycap23

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purple05 said:

Graycap23 said:

Talented?

Lol.....if u say so.

Talent comes in many different forms and to different degrees. So yes Madonna does have talent

Calling a peer 2 Prince and Mj in an insult.

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #9 posted 12/29/17 4:51pm

purple05

Graycap23 said:



purple05 said:


Graycap23 said:

Talented?


Lol.....if u say so.



Talent comes in many different forms and to different degrees. So yes Madonna does have talent

Calling a peer 2 Prince and Mj in an insult.


When I say peer I'm speaking of age group and the time of the adult solo success. Would you agree she is a peer in that regard?
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Reply #10 posted 12/29/17 4:56pm

UncleJam

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Forget Madonna, Whitney, Prince, etc.....someone explain to me how the hell Sly Stone is still alive?!?!?!?!?!?

Make it so, Number One...
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Reply #11 posted 12/29/17 5:19pm

alphastreet

The emotional and mental pain that came with fame did not impact her half as bad as the three.

Yes she had some very traumatic experiences, and I have no say in measuring who experienced more stress, but because of who they were/are, mj, prince and whitney endured a lot and had to answer to many more double standards that madonna never had to endure, and could never understand fully no matter who she assosicates with in her career. You know where this conversation is going...and I happen to love all of them life long. This is just my observation.

[Edited 12/29/17 17:20pm]

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Reply #12 posted 12/29/17 10:47pm

purple05

UncleJam said:

Forget Madonna, Whitney, Prince, etc.....someone explain to me how the hell Sly Stone is still alive?!?!?!?!?!?


It's he and a few others like Chacka that seem to have as many lives as cats. It's always interesting how some people live long with addiction and others die so young.
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Reply #13 posted 12/30/17 3:43am

Graycap23

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purple05 said:

Graycap23 said:

Calling a peer 2 Prince and Mj in an insult.

When I say peer I'm speaking of age group and the time of the adult solo success. Would you agree she is a peer in that regard?

Peer:a person who is equal to another in abilities, qualifications, age,background, and social status.

Based on this definition, the answer is NO.

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #14 posted 12/30/17 7:19am

purple05

alphastreet said:

The emotional and mental pain that came with fame did not impact her half as bad as the three.



Yes she had some very traumatic experiences, and I have no say in measuring who experienced more stress, but because of who they were/are, mj, prince and whitney endured a lot and had to answer to many more double standards that madonna never had to endure, and could never understand fully no matter who she assosicates with in her career. You know where this conversation is going...and I happen to love all of them life long. This is just my observation.

[Edited 12/29/17 17:20pm]


Yep. Even Janet to a certain extent. It's like they had to be perfect, flawless and not make any wrong steps.
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Reply #15 posted 12/30/17 7:20am

purple05

Graycap23 said:



purple05 said:


Graycap23 said:


Calling a peer 2 Prince and Mj in an insult.



When I say peer I'm speaking of age group and the time of the adult solo success. Would you agree she is a peer in that regard?

Peer:a person who is equal to another in abilities, qualifications, age,background, and social status.



Based on this definition, the answer is NO.


A little further down it does say age. You don't have to meet ALL criteria to be a peer. But I see where you are coming from.
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Reply #16 posted 12/30/17 9:11am

NorthC

purple05 said:

alphastreet said:

The emotional and mental pain that came with fame did not impact her half as bad as the three.



Yes she had some very traumatic experiences, and I have no say in measuring who experienced more stress, but because of who they were/are, mj, prince and whitney endured a lot and had to answer to many more double standards that madonna never had to endure, and could never understand fully no matter who she assosicates with in her career. You know where this conversation is going...and I happen to love all of them life long. This is just my observation.

[Edited 12/29/17 17:20pm]


Yep. Even Janet to a certain extent. It's like they had to be perfect, flawless and not make any wrong steps.

Really? Maybe that's true for the two Jacksons or Whitney, but Prince... If you look at his carreer, with albums like Dirty Mind, Lovesexy, a film like Under the Cherry Moon, the name change... That doesn't look like someone who feels the pressure of having to be perfect all the time. That looks like someone who follows his own path no matter what.
I may disagree with everything you say, but I will defend your right to say it.
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Reply #17 posted 12/30/17 9:43am

CynicKill

Madonna was definitely street smarter.

She realized that she had to put the business before the show.

She realized early on that she needed to take advantage of this huge publicity machine to make money instead of expecting them to pay her fairly.

Her talent was balancing perfectly the edgy with the commercial. And an uncanny sense of control.

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Reply #18 posted 12/30/17 10:53am

luvsexy4all

she's always known what she needed to do to get what she wanted

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Reply #19 posted 12/30/17 11:23am

mnbvc

alphastreet said:

The emotional and mental pain that came with fame did not impact her half as bad as the three.

Yes she had some very traumatic experiences, and I have no say in measuring who experienced more stress, but because of who they were/are, mj, prince and whitney endured a lot and had to answer to many more double standards that madonna never had to endure, and could never understand fully no matter who she assosicates with in her career.

[Edited 12/29/17 17:20pm]

When the topic fame is brought up, it always fascinates me that Beyonce never recieved close the scrutiny that predecessors Michael Jackson etc... faced, not even 1/10 the scrutiny of peer Britney Spears, and probably alreadly less career scrutiny than Taylor Swift.

Not saying that she should be more scrutinized at all, but for someone who's supposed to be the most celebrated female music artist of the last two decades, it is notable how little scrutiny she's ever recieved.

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Reply #20 posted 12/30/17 4:41pm

purplethunder3
121

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No, Madonna was never held to the "sane" standard... lol

There's no them...there's only us...
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Reply #21 posted 12/30/17 4:43pm

purplethunder3
121

avatar

UncleJam said:

Forget Madonna, Whitney, Prince, etc.....someone explain to me how the hell Sly Stone is still alive?!?!?!?!?!?

No kidding! Talk about 9 lives... eek

There's no them...there's only us...
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Reply #22 posted 12/30/17 6:03pm

purple05

NorthC said:

purple05 said:


Yep. Even Janet to a certain extent. It's like they had to be perfect, flawless and not make any wrong steps.

Really? Maybe that's true for the two Jacksons or Whitney, but Prince... If you look at his carreer, with albums like Dirty Mind, Lovesexy, a film like Under the Cherry Moon, the name change... That doesn't look like someone who feels the pressure of having to be perfect all the time. That looks like someone who follows his own path no matter what.

You don't think Prince was under pressure? Not in the same way Whitney and MJ were but I'd say he was held to a high standard
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Reply #23 posted 12/30/17 6:06pm

purple05

CynicKill said:

Madonna was definitely street smarter.


She realized that she had to put the business before the show.


She realized early on that she needed to take advantage of this huge publicity machine to make money instead of expecting them to pay her fairly.


Her talent was balancing perfectly the edgy with the commercial. And an uncanny sense of control.


Yes Madonna was more street smart but she was never held to the same standards IMO
It's almost like she had a different relationship with the media than they did. She's very famous but they've never hounded her like they did MJ and Whitney
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Reply #24 posted 12/30/17 6:09pm

purple05

mnbvc said:



alphastreet said:


The emotional and mental pain that came with fame did not impact her half as bad as the three.



Yes she had some very traumatic experiences, and I have no say in measuring who experienced more stress, but because of who they were/are, mj, prince and whitney endured a lot and had to answer to many more double standards that madonna never had to endure, and could never understand fully no matter who she assosicates with in her career.


[Edited 12/29/17 17:20pm]



When the topic fame is brought up, it always fascinates me that Beyonce never recieved close the scrutiny that predecessors Michael Jackson etc... faced, not even 1/10 the scrutiny of peer Britney Spears, and probably alreadly less career scrutiny than Taylor Swift.



Not saying that she should be more scrutinized at all, but for someone who's supposed to be the most celebrated female music artist of the last two decades, it is notable how little scrutiny she's ever recieved.


It's interesting when I see some of her fans online say that she gets hate. Beyoncé is an industry darling. MJ, Whitney nor Prince got that treatment from their peers and the media. You can't say one negative thing about Beyoncé without receiving backlash. Everything she does is considered amazing and it's not. She didn't start making really great music until her last few albums
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Reply #25 posted 12/30/17 6:10pm

purple05

purplethunder3121 said:

No, Madonna was never held to the "sane" standard... lol


Spell check failed me lol
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Reply #26 posted 12/30/17 7:40pm

COMPUTERBLUE19
84

Career wise: I always viewed her as being very keen on what was happening with pop/mainstream culture at a given moment. As a Bowie follower, she borrowed the element of reinvention to keep up/ahead of her peers. Like Bowie, she collaborated extremely well with producers and media folk to play the fame game to stay relevant. She is a keen business woman as well and her success in the game can be attributed to beating some of her male peers at their own game ($580 MILLION according to Forbes).

Prince always struck me as an artist that understood his art made money, but that the money was a secondary thing to the actual art. He was a relentless perfectionist and the consumate musician who controlled all aspects of his product. This lead to quality issues with some of his material and (perhaps) poor business choices over time. I think the tours and frequent albums were vehicles to finance his projects, so he was almost working to support his art. His legacy was intact, but he felt compelled to keep going, just burning out physically (IMO)

MJ was in the game long enough and was the master showman. Keen businessman and as someone stated, the media built him up over such a long period of time that he had no where to go but down in his later years. Similar to Prince with his product, his lifestyle just caught up with him in time and without tours or albums, no cash new cash flow was coming in. The This Is It tour was a last hurrah of sorts and had he lived, I don't think he would have toured any more. His legacy was intact.

"Old man's gotta be the old man. Fish has got to be the fish."
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Reply #27 posted 12/30/17 8:00pm

Goddess4Real

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CynicKill said:

Madonna was definitely street smarter.

She realized that she had to put the business before the show.

She realized early on that she needed to take advantage of this huge publicity machine to make money instead of expecting them to pay her fairly.

Her talent was balancing perfectly the edgy with the commercial. And an uncanny sense of control.

yeahthat

Keep Calm & Listen To Prince
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Reply #28 posted 12/30/17 9:29pm

purple05

COMPUTERBLUE1984 said:

Career wise: I always viewed her as being very keen on what was happening with pop/mainstream culture at a given moment. As a Bowie follower, she borrowed the element of reinvention to keep up/ahead of her peers. Like Bowie, she collaborated extremely well with producers and media folk to play the fame game to stay relevant. She is a keen business woman as well and her success in the game can be attributed to beating some of her male peers at their own game ($580 MILLION according to Forbes).



Prince always struck me as an artist that understood his art made money, but that the money was a secondary thing to the actual art. He was a relentless perfectionist and the consumate musician who controlled all aspects of his product. This lead to quality issues with some of his material and (perhaps) poor business choices over time. I think the tours and frequent albums were vehicles to finance his projects, so he was almost working to support his art. His legacy was intact, but he felt compelled to keep going, just burning out physically (IMO)



MJ was in the game long enough and was the master showman. Keen businessman and as someone stated, the media built him up over such a long period of time that he had no where to go but down in his later years. Similar to Prince with his product, his lifestyle just caught up with him in time and without tours or albums, no cash new cash flow was coming in. The This Is It tour was a last hurrah of sorts and had he lived, I don't think he would have toured any more. His legacy was intact.



It's crazy to me how these artist keep having to tour to keep money flowing. But I guess people forget that someone had to cut their pay check just like someone cuts ours. I was shocked to learn that's how it worked and how expensive it is to tour and make an album.
With MJ had he toured after invincible, none of what happened from 03-05 would've taken place. That's pretty much what killed him. He was already in debt and it only got worse because he couldn't work
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Reply #29 posted 12/31/17 5:52am

COMPUTERBLUE19
84

purple05 said:

COMPUTERBLUE1984 said:

Career wise: I always viewed her as being very keen on what was happening with pop/mainstream culture at a given moment. As a Bowie follower, she borrowed the element of reinvention to keep up/ahead of her peers. Like Bowie, she collaborated extremely well with producers and media folk to play the fame game to stay relevant. She is a keen business woman as well and her success in the game can be attributed to beating some of her male peers at their own game ($580 MILLION according to Forbes).



Prince always struck me as an artist that understood his art made money, but that the money was a secondary thing to the actual art. He was a relentless perfectionist and the consumate musician who controlled all aspects of his product. This lead to quality issues with some of his material and (perhaps) poor business choices over time. I think the tours and frequent albums were vehicles to finance his projects, so he was almost working to support his art. His legacy was intact, but he felt compelled to keep going, just burning out physically (IMO)



MJ was in the game long enough and was the master showman. Keen businessman and as someone stated, the media built him up over such a long period of time that he had no where to go but down in his later years. Similar to Prince with his product, his lifestyle just caught up with him in time and without tours or albums, no cash new cash flow was coming in. The This Is It tour was a last hurrah of sorts and had he lived, I don't think he would have toured any more. His legacy was intact.



It's crazy to me how these artist keep having to tour to keep money flowing. But I guess people forget that someone had to cut their pay check just like someone cuts ours. I was shocked to learn that's how it worked and how expensive it is to tour and make an album.
With MJ had he toured after invincible, none of what happened from 03-05 would've taken place. That's pretty much what killed him. He was already in debt and it only got worse because he couldn't work


Agreed. I do believe that tours and all of their ancillary costs (dancers/sets/etc) get expensive. Without knowing their finances, Prince’s tours became more stripped down (smaller entourage) over the past 10-15 years, especially after leaving WB. Still toured and had tremendous success, but the man seemed like he was touring non-stop since the 1980's. He had SO MUCH product out there that he wanted to share that the tours were an extension of these projects (good/bad/or indifferent. Money was made for sure but how it was used is open to interpretation. No major labels or promotional pushes to support his projects, so touring or distribution methods (the Planet Earth newspaper giveaway, which was laughed at by some criticized by others)affected the reach of those albums. Ultimately, the press pounces on these as failures, thus creating a narrative that his later efforts were not successful.

Madonna has a major label backing her promotional and touring efforts, so someone else absorbs some of those costs. Thus money saved and be redistributed towards other things. When a new album dropped, she was all in with the project and the record labels/radio stations signed on as well. As I stated, I believe she is a shrewd business person and knows how to make her money work for her.
[Edited 12/31/17 6:44am]
"Old man's gotta be the old man. Fish has got to be the fish."
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