Rush, Genesis, and this year Yes and ELO have all gotten in. The best Southern bands- Allmans and Skynrd- are also in. To me, the biggest oversight remains the J. Geils Band- made more tragic that J Geils himself would never be around to see the induction if they ever make it in
Yeah, in the last few years. The Hall has existed since the mid-1980s. All 4 of those bands have been around since the 1960s or early 1970s, way past the hall's "25 years after their debut album" rule. That a relatively forgotten act like Paul Butterfield got inducted in 2015, still shows that blues based acts are the priority.
You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton
Rush, Genesis, and this year Yes and ELO have all gotten in. The best Southern bands- Allmans and Skynrd- are also in. To me, the biggest oversight remains the J. Geils Band- made more tragic that J Geils himself would never be around to see the induction if they ever make it in
Yeah, in the last few years. The Hall has existed since the mid-1980s. All 4 of those bands have been around since the 1960s or early 1970s, way past the hall's "25 years after their debut album" rule. That a relatively forgotten act like Paul Butterfield got inducted in 2015, still shows that blues based acts are the priority.
Paul Butterfield's debut album and especially their next album "East West" are two of the most influential albums ever. I'm glad they finally got their due
Beastie Boys Cat Stevens Donna Summer Earth, Wind and Fire Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers Genesis Gladys Knight and the Pips Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five Green Day James Taylor Jimmy Cliff Joan Baez Joni Mitchell Leonard Cohen Madonna Miles Davis N.W.A. Nirvana (they killed rock and roll) Pearl Jam Pete Seeger Public Enemy Red Hot Chili Peppers Run-D.M.C. Tupac Shakur
and probably a lot of non-entertainers who were inducted who, while certainly talented, had absolutely nothing to do with rock and roll.
I'm not saying the entertainers listed above aren't/weren't talented...well, OK I am with respect to Nirvana, Peral Jam and all the rappers. But regardless, those people are not, were not, and never will be rock and rollers.
I guess you have a very narrow view of what constitutes "rock and roll". And I maintain that every act you listed- especially Nirvana and Pearl Jam - made better music than Journey
That's what makes art great! My view isn't narrow at all - it just encompasses what I feel is actual rock and roll.
The RodeoSchro Rock and Roll Hall of Fame would be much different than Jann Wenner's Hall of Fame.
Even if you accept your premise that R&B, funk, pop, rap, hip hop, folk, and singer-songwriter music is NOT "rock and roll " (a premise I don't accept BTW), how do justify saying that Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Green Day, or the Red Hot Chili Peppers aren't rock and roll either?
My view isn't narrow at all - it just encompasses what I feel is actual rock and roll.
Early rock n roll was based on R&B and gospel, sometimes mixed with country & western. Technically, it was named "rock n roll" when white people started doing R&B. "Rock n roll" was then black slang for sex and had been used in some R&B songs when it was still called "race music" way before the term was used for a genre. Early R&B itself was generally gospel music with secular lyrics and a lot of the early R&B/soul singers came from gospel like Sam Cooke. Elvis Presley's early records charted on the R&B charts and so did Jerry Lee Lewis. Doo Wop, like Frankie Lymon, was considered rock n' roll and was popular with teenagers. If you watch the rock n roll movies made at the time, they often featured doo wop groups.
You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton
My view isn't narrow at all - it just encompasses what I feel is actual rock and roll.
Early rock n roll was based on R&B and gospel, sometimes mixed with country & western. Technically, it was named "rock n roll" when white people started doing R&B. "Rock n roll" was then black slang for sex and had been used in some R&B songs when it was still called "race music" way before the term was used for a genre. Early R&B itself was generally gospel music with secular lyrics and a lot of the early R&B/soul singers came from gospel like Sam Cooke. Elvis Presley's early records charted on the R&B charts and so did Jerry Lee Lewis. Doo Wop, like Frankie Lymon, was considered rock n' roll and was popular with teenagers. If you watch the rock n roll movies made at the time, they often featured doo wop groups.
ya, but i always assumed that it was because the doo wop groups were usually one hit wonders and not really stars. Rock is really more complicated than r and b and gospel, it was boogie woogie, big band, then you had guys like ritchie valens bringing a bit of the "latin tinge" into it. Pretty much everything american was thrown in the mix, I watched a docu about the wrecking crew and they speak about older musicians of the time who were jazz musicians and couldn't bring themselves to play something as simple as major and minor chords. they also didn't like rockers approaching them with musical ideas if they couldn't write it down. but really, everything was thrown into rock and roll.
oh, ok, i once worked with a producer who supposedly was working with him, he lives in tacoma about 50 miles away from me. Wonder why he would say that. It's also interesting seeing who gets accepted and who doesn't, bruce springsteen was criticized for not helping the e street band get in along with him, in his bio he states the reasons and states how it was him who pushed for the record deal, the e street band deservedly got in some time later though. In Bruce's case, if ever there was an 'solo' artist who had a backup group that should have been included it was him. Proof's in the pudding, his best work and definitely his best live stuff is with that band.
oh, ok, i once worked with a producer who supposedly was working with him, he lives in tacoma about 50 miles away from me. Wonder why he would say that. It's also interesting seeing who gets accepted and who doesn't, bruce springsteen was criticized for not helping the e street band get in along with him, in his bio he states the reasons and states how it was him who pushed for the record deal, the e street band deservedly got in some time later though. In Bruce's case, if ever there was an 'solo' artist who had a backup group that should have been included it was him. Proof's in the pudding, his best work and definitely his best live stuff is with that band.
That was just a bunch of mumbo jumbo from a hypocrite. These music "rebels" kill me. Just shut up and sing. If you dont want the award dont go.
do you remember who said it? I can't recall.
This is the funniest response to the rock hall induction:
"Never let nasty stalkers disrespect you. They start shit, you finish it. Go down to their level, that's the only way they'll understand. You have to handle things yourself."
One night,I went to a bar to have a few beers.There was a jukebox and someone played "Don't Stop Believin'".Nearly everyone in the bar was singing along to every line it was so funny.That's the true definition of "classic song"...when everyone knows the lyrics and can relate to it.
Exactly!
Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
One night,I went to a bar to have a few beers.There was a jukebox and someone played "Don't Stop Believin'".Nearly everyone in the bar was singing along to every line it was so funny.That's the true definition of "classic song"...when everyone knows the lyrics and can relate to it.
Exactly!
To me, "Don't Stop Believing " is just a mediocre song that is remembered today because of its use during the finale of "The Sopranos "
That's what makes art great! My view isn't narrow at all - it just encompasses what I feel is actual rock and roll.
The RodeoSchro Rock and Roll Hall of Fame would be much different than Jann Wenner's Hall of Fame.
Even if you accept your premise that R&B, funk, pop, rap, hip hop, folk, and singer-songwriter music is NOT "rock and roll " (a premise I don't accept BTW), how do justify saying that Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Green Day, or the Red Hot Chili Peppers aren't rock and roll either?
Excellent qustions.
First, to the point of rap, hip-hop, etc. - Imagine if there was a Rap And Hip Hop Hall of Fame. And then imagine if Bruce Springsteen, Steve Cropper and say, Metallica were inducted. I'm sure we'd all be saying WTH?!? That's where I'm coming from vis. a. vie the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Regarding Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Green Day and the RHCP I guess what I should have said is that they are not worthy of being in a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I know they consider(ed) themselves rock and rollers. I would consider them as BAD rock and rollers. I think their music is crap. Nrivana killed rock and roll.
Before Nirvana came along, rock used to be about having fun and getting chicks. They changed it into being about how much life sucks. Ugh. John Mellancamp was absolutely correct when he said rock and roll was dead. Nirvana killed it.
I will say that there are a couple RHCP songs that aren't bad. That band cracks me up, though. Look at their discography. Whenever they felt like they needed a hit or a boost, they recorded a song/album about California. It's true! So in my eyes that makes them more of a gimmick than a band.
If I get some time, maybe I will list who the members of the RodeoSchro Rock and Roll Hall of Fame would be, although I bet not many people actually care about that, LOL.
That's what makes art great! My view isn't narrow at all - it just encompasses what I feel is actual rock and roll.
The RodeoSchro Rock and Roll Hall of Fame would be much different than Jann Wenner's Hall of Fame.
Even if you accept your premise that R&B, funk, pop, rap, hip hop, folk, and singer-songwriter music is NOT "rock and roll " (a premise I don't accept BTW), how do justify saying that Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Green Day, or the Red Hot Chili Peppers aren't rock and roll either?
Excellent qustions.
First, to the point of rap, hip-hop, etc. - Imagine if there was a Rap And Hip Hop Hall of Fame. And then imagine if Bruce Springsteen, Steve Cropper and say, Metallica were inducted. I'm sure we'd all be saying WTH?!? That's where I'm coming from vis. a. vie the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Regarding Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Green Day and the RHCP I guess what I should have said is that they are not worthy of being in a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I know they consider(ed) themselves rock and rollers. I would consider them as BAD rock and rollers. I think their music is crap. Nrivana killed rock and roll.
Before Nirvana came along, rock used to be about having fun and getting chicks. They changed it into being about how much life sucks. Ugh. John Mellancamp was absolutely correct when he said rock and roll was dead. Nirvana killed it.
I will say that there are a couple RHCP songs that aren't bad. That band cracks me up, though. Look at their discography. Whenever they felt like they needed a hit or a boost, they recorded a song/album about California. It's true! So in my eyes that makes them more of a gimmick than a band.
If I get some time, maybe I will list who the members of the RodeoSchro Rock and Roll Hall of Fame would be, although I bet not many people actually care about that, LOL.
I guess I consider Rock a bigger tent, with rap one of it's genres
RodeoSchro said: Even if you accept your premise that R&B, funk, pop, rap, hip hop, folk, and singer-songwriter music is NOT "rock and roll " (a premise I don't accept BTW), how do justify saying that Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Green Day, or the Red Hot Chili Peppers aren't rock and roll either?
Excellent qustions.
First, to the point of rap, hip-hop, etc. - Imagine if there was a Rap And Hip Hop Hall of Fame. And then imagine if Bruce Springsteen, Steve Cropper and say, Metallica were inducted. I'm sure we'd all be saying WTH?!? That's where I'm coming from vis. a. vie the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Regarding Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Green Day and the RHCP I guess what I should have said is that they are not worthy of being in a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I know they consider(ed) themselves rock and rollers. I would consider them as BAD rock and rollers. I think their music is crap. Nrivana killed rock and roll.
Before Nirvana came along, rock used to be about having fun and getting chicks. They changed it into being about how much life sucks. Ugh. John Mellancamp was absolutely correct when he said rock and roll was dead. Nirvana killed it.
I will say that there are a couple RHCP songs that aren't bad. That band cracks me up, though. Look at their discography. Whenever they felt like they needed a hit or a boost, they recorded a song/album about California. It's true! So in my eyes that makes them more of a gimmick than a band.
If I get some time, maybe I will list who the members of the RodeoSchro Rock and Roll Hall of Fame would be, although I bet not many people actually care about that, LOL.
i fucking hated grunge and rap too, they really weren't the same as Rock in any way Ideologically but musically, they based enough to be rock when they wanted.
First, to the point of rap, hip-hop, etc. - Imagine if there was a Rap And Hip Hop Hall of Fame. And then imagine if Bruce Springsteen, Steve Cropper and say, Metallica were inducted. I'm sure we'd all be saying WTH?!? That's where I'm coming from vis. a. vie the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Regarding Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Green Day and the RHCP I guess what I should have said is that they are not worthy of being in a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I know they consider(ed) themselves rock and rollers. I would consider them as BAD rock and rollers. I think their music is crap. Nrivana killed rock and roll.
Before Nirvana came along, rock used to be about having fun and getting chicks. They changed it into being about how much life sucks. Ugh. John Mellancamp was absolutely correct when he said rock and roll was dead. Nirvana killed it.
I will say that there are a couple RHCP songs that aren't bad. That band cracks me up, though. Look at their discography. Whenever they felt like they needed a hit or a boost, they recorded a song/album about California. It's true! So in my eyes that makes them more of a gimmick than a band.
If I get some time, maybe I will list who the members of the RodeoSchro Rock and Roll Hall of Fame would be, although I bet not many people actually care about that, LOL.
I guess I consider Rock a bigger tent, with rap one of it's genres
I get that but I'm honestly curious.
Let's say there was a Rap and Hip Hop Hall of Fame that started out with inductees like Tupac, Snoop Dogg, Lil Wayne, Drake (I'm naming all the rappers I know LOL, not necessarily those people think are good!), Chuck D, Grandmaster Flash, Puff Daddy, Jay-Z Kurtis Blow and Birdman. And then someone like Bruce Springsteen was inducted because if you really stretch it, you can say he "rapped" lyrics in maybe 10% of his songs, would you buy that as a rationalefor putting him in a Rap and Hip Hop Hall of Fame?
Its the popular music hall of fame I dont see the point of bringing this up every year.
I understand, but the name of the organization is not The Popular Music Hall of Fame, is it?
But I do understand that in 1986 the first class of inductees included James Brown and Sam Cooke, and I bet neither one of them would have said, "Yes, I play rock and roll". Same with 1987 inductees like The Coasters, Marvin Gaye and Jackie Wilson.
Its the popular music hall of fame I dont see the point of bringing this up every year.
I understand, but the name of the organization is not The Popular Music Hall of Fame, is it?
But I do understand that in 1986 the first class of inductees included James Brown and Sam Cooke, and I bet neither one of them would have said, "Yes, I play rock and roll". Same with 1987 inductees like The Coasters, Marvin Gaye and Jackie Wilson.
I guess it was just named wrong from the start!
Rock n roll was a catch all term for all popular music back in the day. Rock than became associated with a sound a look and a attitude that differed it from other genres. There just using it as a catch all term for popular music.
i think true rock and roll is defintely a lot different than much pop and nearly all of hip hop and grunge in idealogy, but not necessarily in sound or influence of the actual music. Grunge is the exact opposite of Rock in all the visual and topical ways. raggedy assed clothes, whining about how bad your life is and rap is not much better, glorifying how great it is to be an ignorant thug and how cool it is to do anything bad you can think of, that's not rock. Rock was about freedom, about fun and joy, about overcoming, all those elements that affirm life and with a healthy dose of faith and optimism. Rap and Grunge are the opposite of that, I think Punk was too in many ways and if you have known any of those types of musicians (as I have) they have nothing but contempt for rock and roll anyway, think they are all phony, overrated, talentless. You know the story of some punk rocker calling robert plant an old fart? that pretty much sums up the attitude. Like spoiled kids and their parents more than anything else.
First, to the point of rap, hip-hop, etc. - Imagine if there was a Rap And Hip Hop Hall of Fame. And then imagine if Bruce Springsteen, Steve Cropper and say, Metallica were inducted. I'm sure we'd all be saying WTH?!? That's where I'm coming from vis. a. vie the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Regarding Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Green Day and the RHCP I guess what I should have said is that they are not worthy of being in a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I know they consider(ed) themselves rock and rollers. I would consider them as BAD rock and rollers. I think their music is crap. Nrivana killed rock and roll.
Before Nirvana came along, rock used to be about having fun and getting chicks. They changed it into being about how much life sucks. Ugh. John Mellancamp was absolutely correct when he said rock and roll was dead. Nirvana killed it.
I will say that there are a couple RHCP songs that aren't bad. That band cracks me up, though. Look at their discography. Whenever they felt like they needed a hit or a boost, they recorded a song/album about California. It's true! So in my eyes that makes them more of a gimmick than a band.
If I get some time, maybe I will list who the members of the RodeoSchro Rock and Roll Hall of Fame would be, although I bet not many people actually care about that, LOL.
I guess I consider Rock a bigger tent, with rap one of it's genres
I get that but I'm honestly curious.
Let's say there was a Rap and Hip Hop Hall of Fame that started out with inductees like Tupac, Snoop Dogg, Lil Wayne, Drake (I'm naming all the rappers I know LOL, not necessarily those people think are good!), Chuck D, Grandmaster Flash, Puff Daddy, Jay-Z Kurtis Blow and Birdman. And then someone like Bruce Springsteen was inducted because if you really stretch it, you can say he "rapped" lyrics in maybe 10% of his songs, would you buy that as a rationalefor putting him in a Rap and Hip Hop Hall of Fame?
Bruce Springsteen doesn't perform rap or hip-hop music, so if you were limiting such an award to that field, then he would be out of place . He also doesn't perform jam band music like the Dead or Phish, or Prog Rock like ELP or King Crimson or Country Rock like the Pure Prairie League or Southern Rock like 38 Special or Molly Hatchet. Perhaps to me, "Rock and Roll" is just a broader field than white dudes with electric guitars
I wouldnl't know.....I've never seen The Sopranos.
But you're a Green Day fan so,
Not a huge Green Day fan, though "American Idiot " is a good album. And you've never seen The Sopranos?????
Nope, I haven't.
Ok- it just sometimes surprises me when someone hasn't seen or heard something that seems so culturally important and ubiquitous- like if someone said they never saw "Seinfeld " or "Star Wars " or "The Godfather " , or ever heard the Beatles or Elvis or James Brown. But it's all cool
Ok- it just sometimes surprises me when someone hasn't seen or heard something that seems so culturally important and ubiquitous- like if someone said they never saw "Seinfeld " or "Star Wars " or "The Godfather ", or ever heard the Beatles or Elvis or James Brown. But it's all cool
I've never seen any of that. Years ago, I saw a part of one of the Star Wars movies that had Billy Dee Williams in it. Don't know which one it was because it was on TV and I was flipping through the channels. I've seen all of the Star Trek movies with the original cast though, and 2 or 3 of the Picard movies. I haven't seen one episode of Seinfeld and only watched one of Friends. That was only because it was advertised that Jean Claude Van Damme was going to guest on it, and I used to go see his movies at the time. I've never really been interested in mafia pictures, so The Godfather isn't for me.
You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton
Ok- it just sometimes surprises me when someone hasn't seen or heard something that seems so culturally important and ubiquitous- like if someone said they never saw "Seinfeld " or "Star Wars " or "The Godfather " , or ever heard the Beatles or Elvis or James Brown. But it's all cool
me too but one thing i've learned is that most people from affluent homes do not watch much tv or know the movies that are ingrained into the rest of us. Why that is? I don't know, maybe they consider such things just trash for the dumbed down masses.
New topic
Printable
Report post to moderator
it's been a long time!