Free2BMe said:

mjscarousal said:

You are delusional. He did not admit that MJ was not his father and this is TMZ you are quoting but you expect for people to take your seriously?

Of course, Scorp is delusional AND abnormally OBSESSED with someone that he doesn't like and tears down at EVERY chance that he gets. I've said this many times; but, Scorp (and others like him) act more like scorned or rejected lovers or "wanna be" lovers than anything else. FTR, Prince NEVER said that Michael wasn't his father. In fact, he said the opposite of that. Prince is VERY intelligent and said that BLOOD(Michael) is thicker than water... Damn, how much clearer can he make it. Btw, Debbie was more than an "incubator", she loved Michael very much. This is the reason that she told Michael she would have his children when Lisa didn't. For all of the UNAWARE, Debbie had several Miscarriages before Prince was conceived.Debbie was with Michael during the Bad tour. There are photos of her in his car, in his hotel room, etc. Friends of Debbie were Quoted as saying that Michael could call Debbie at ANY time of night or day(even when she was working) and she would go meet him somewhere. The thing is that Debbie was providing sex and loved Michael more than he loved her. Michael loved Debbie, but not as passionanently as she loved him. There has never been any doubt in my mind That Debbie and Michael had sex and conceived Prince and Paris the normal way. I bet most people don't know that doing one of Michael's yours that Debbie and Prince were in Paris and Michael was flying there to see them basically every week or whenever he had a break. Debbie said that Paris was conceived in Paris, thus her name. This is not something that a tabloid made up, Debbie was quoted as saying that at that time. If you or any other person ever finds, definite proof of your assertions about what you claim about Michael's children, then let me know. Until then, I believe Michael to be the FATHER of ALL of his children. Show proof otherwise or STFU.

Scrop is actually not as bad as that other troll believe it or not! I maturely asked that user (MichaelJackson5) multiple times when he was ranting on and personally attacking MJ to support his opinions with factual evidence and he never once did The only thing he kept insisting was that MJ fans were delusional for their opinions or perspectives. Oddly, he has the nerve to call people childish just because there calling him out on his bullshit. It logically doesn't make any sense and it is just a poor excuse to troll and to disrupt threads. That MichaelJackson5 troll is not a MJ fan and is hiding behind a username. The problem with his whole fake objective talk is that, he is not trying to be rational or have an engaging discussion on MJ. He is purposely agitating and instigating arguments (so he can rant about his hate for MJ). Also, he is trying to latch on to users that side with his views and ONLY his views on MJ. There is nothing mature about that and that is not how you have a mature adult discussion where you are open and are receptive to many different perspectives. I'd just ignore them honestly, it sucks though because it disrupts nice threads.

MichaelJackson5 said:

mjscarousal said:

The only one that is a child is you.Your trolling this thread on purpose to instigate arguments and to agitate MJ fans. Your a loser. The least you can do is be honest about the fact that your not a MJ fan.You want to lecture others on how to act like an adult but you can't have a mature discussion yourself, CHILD.

[Edited 10/24/15 19:21pm]

There are no MJ-Haters here. There are people such as Scorp and I who hate the false narrative and I can say, for myself, the delusional zealous fans are hated by everyone. They're the ones that make it embarassing today to people who want to continue being his fan because they make fools of themselves on YouTube with silly videos to "prove" those three kids are his biological children. Any fool can see those kids aren't from him. Then, they wonder why they're the biggest joke out of all music fanbases.

Let OffTheWall speak. He/she has more class and decency than you can ever comprehend.

The only reason you want to talk to him is because he sides with some of your opinions. There is nothing classy about you or the way you have behaved since joining this site. I don't care to talk to grown adults who don't know how to have an intelligent mature conversation. Go ahead along your merry way

Scorp said:

OfftheWall said:

I don't think it's right to discuss children of a deceased parent in such a horrible nature. The children are online and they simply Google themselves and can stumble across these discussions. Yes, being the children of controversial superstar Michael Jackson, it's to be expected that debates will arise, but it's just unnecessary to keep on, especially after we learned that Paris was very vulnerable.

Since Prince has addressed it himself with a "mysterious" tweet. "The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb" I was raised by my dad with my brother and sister." I guess I'll respond.

Prince's tweet does seem to hint at Michael not being his father biologically. Debbie's water of the womb means nothing compared to the blood of a covenant. (a covenant being a contract/agreement). The proverb Prince tweet is also said this way "My relationship with those to whom I am joined in covenant is to be considered of more value than the relationship with a brother with whom I may have shared the womb." So, It reads as the exact opposite of "blood is thicker than water".

Prince's tweet reads as if he's saying the lineage of the womb meant nothing compared to who his dad was, the man who raised him. His family is his father, brother, sister... regardless of who's biology put his body together. That's how I read the tweet, and that's how the media has picked it up unsurprisingly. Prince will have to speak more about it to clear the air if he ever wants to.

It's a shame people can be so cruel to say such things to him online, but that's life for you. If a child is adopted, or brought into this world through sperm donors/womb renters, it doesn't make them any less of a child to the parent who raised them as their own. Prince is Michael Jackson's first born son, and he is doing his father proud I think. He seems like a nice, smart young man. His tweet to that idiot proves so. Even if Michael (and Debbie) lied to the public about how the children came to be, it doesn't change anything.

Maybe one day the world will know for sure, but it's truly not anyones business regardless. They don't owe us an explanation.

[Edited 10/24/15 18:51pm]

and that's the problem, fans didn't want to talk about it years before and they dont' want to talk about it now, and they will never want to talk about it because they love the false narrative and the false image, but that very false narrative and image threw everything off whack and why everything fell off the rails

what, is that oldest kid immature by saying what he said the other day when its 6 years after the fact...........

the world was minding its own business when it was MJ who presented these kids to the public and not only said he was teh father, but that he actually fathered him, that they are his biological offspring....nobody forced him to do that

because of the false image and narrative, its' the false image and narrative that caused those negative comments to be directed at this young man online as well as that young girl a couple of years ago

it aint about its nobody's business, MJ presented them kids to the world as his when everyone, including those who dont' want to acknowledge it know good and well they are not

its' like the fans loved the controversy, the controversy that brought necessary static to the experience

the false image is what has exploited these 3 kids when they should be existing in a situation where they know who they are

and as I mentioned, this is only the tip of the tip of the iceberg

the blood of the covenant may be more thicker than the water of the wound but its the water of the wound that determines the bloodline of the covenant of which you are naturally supposed to be part of

it's not the kids the people online or attackin directly, it's the false image and narrative

the human value is more important to me than the entertainment value of it all, especially when there is no true entertainment value to speak of

[Edited 10/24/15 19:12pm]

When I say it's nobodies business, I don't say that in a fan "MJ can do whatver he wants" way... that's not how being a parent works, being a parent means putting them before yourself. I mean it's not the worlds business as in, it's Prince, Paris's and Blankets decision to discuss with the world, we aren't owed an explanation regarding their biology, whether MJ told stories to the world or not.

Anyway, I think we sometimes forget, we are on the outside looking in. Michael told fibs to us, told two stories about Blanket's lineage, then blurting out how Blankets mother was black stupidly in retaliation to Bashir's questioning... so obviously we don't know the truth from Michael, as he told us various truths. But how do we know what was said behind the glare? How do we know that Prince doesn't know how he came into the world? How do we know what was said without Bashir's cameras around? We don't. Prince's tweet reveals that he knows something atleast.

Yeah, Michael told various stories, but that doesn't mean we have the right to keep on and on until were satisfied with what comes out. That goes for the fans on the other side of the coin too. I dislike when the fans constantly seek Michael out in the children. I don't agree with fans copying and pasting MJ's nostril from 1973 to Prince's nostril in 2010 in order to prove they both breathed one time. It's just silly to have videos desperately trying to prove to the world they are actually Michael's biological offspring. It's tiresome, it's just stupid and over the top. As if they just HAVE to be MJ's kids. I get it, it would suck to think MJ told a lie, and fans probably do want to see Michael live on physically in the DNA of someone, but why do you have to go to such lengths to prove it? It just seems so off to me.

And if turns out they aren't his biological kids afterall? Do you know what will happen? What will happen is the same as what has happened with the autopsy saying he had vitilgo. Those who believe he bleached don't take it as the truth, they say it's a false statement that was doctored onto the autopsy through a paycheck. And that's what will happen if the DNA of the kids is officially revealed. Those who believe the kids are biologically related to Michael will say the DNA test was a lie, AEG did it etc. To the fans everything is a conspiracy to suit their own views. But there's no 'my truth' in life, there's only THE TRUTH. And aslong as the kids know, as long as they have peace and understanding and truth, that's all that matters. And that is truly what I mean by who's business it really is.

[Edited 10/24/15 20:06pm]

mjscarousal said:

MichaelJackson5 said:

There are no MJ-Haters here. There are people such as Scorp and I who hate the false narrative and I can say, for myself, the delusional zealous fans are hated by everyone. They're the ones that make it embarassing today to people who want to continue being his fan because they make fools of themselves on YouTube with silly videos to "prove" those three kids are his biological children. Any fool can see those kids aren't from him. Then, they wonder why they're the biggest joke out of all music fanbases.

Let OffTheWall speak. He/she has more class and decency than you can ever comprehend.

The only reason you want to talk to him is because he sides with some of your opinions. There is nothing classy about you or the way you have behaved since joining this site. I don't care to talk to grown adults who don't know how to have an intelligent mature conversation. Go ahead along your merry way

No, you wouldn't know what class is if it dropped on your head. You're abrasive and use coarse language to attack those that don't drink the same Kool-Aid that you have your whole life.

That was never what Michael Jackson was about. He wanted to Heal The World through love. The only time he has sworn is on Scream.

If you could concentrate for more than 5 seconds you'd see that I acknowledged OffTheWall's argument that MJ made some videos geared towards children even before his transformation.

Normal people can agree to disagree without turning into a drama queen. You have a lot of life lessons to learn because if this is your persona in the real world, you aren't going too far.

MichaelJackson5 said:

Scorp said:

and that's the problem, fans didn't want to talk about it years before and they dont' want to talk about it now, and they will never want to talk about it because they love the false narrative and the false image, but that very false narrative and image threw everything off whack and why everything fell off the rails

what, is that oldest kid immature by saying what he said the other day when its 6 years after the fact...........

the world was minding its own business when it was MJ who presented these kids to the public and not only said he was teh father, but that he actually fathered him, that they are his biological offspring....nobody forced him to do that

because of the false image and narrative, its' the false image and narrative that caused those negative comments to be directed at this young man online as well as that young girl a couple of years ago

it aint about its nobody's business, MJ presented them kids to the world as his when everyone, including those who dont' want to acknowledge it know good and well they are not

its' like the fans loved the controversy, the controversy that brought necessary static to the experience

the false image is what has exploited these 3 kids when they should be existing in a situation where they know who they are

and as I mentioned, this is only the tip of the tip of the iceberg

the blood of the covenant may be more thicker than the water of the wound but its the water of the wound that determines the bloodline of the covenant of which you are naturally supposed to be part of

it's not the kids the people online or attackin directly, it's the false image and narrative

the human value is more important to me than the entertainment value of it all, especially when there is no true entertainment value to speak of

[Edited 10/24/15 19:12pm]

That's MJ's main dilemna. Once he began his lies, he was stuck in a no-win situation.

I was watching a documentary on Ricky Martin and once he finally admitted his sexual orientatiion he felt that he was freed by the truth.

That's not to say MJ was gay, because like Taraborelli says, MJ was likely asexual. But the truth would have made him a happier person and he might still be alive today if he chose the righteous path.

I think Michael was just so insecure that he felt like spontanious snaps like the one about Blankets mother were the way to go. Instead of stopping and thinking, or refusing to anwser, he just made it worse by lying. 'Two... if I can remember. But so what?' He told Oprah, shrugging and acting nonchalant. ACTING being the main point here. He was obviously uncomfortable, and didn't want to talk about it at all. I can read through him like a book.

I don't think his lies were dark. I think he was just frightened in all honesty. He wanted to be understood by the public but he just couldn't really allow himself to be that vulnerable I think. He was insecure about his surgery, that was a topic that never got far in interviews ever. He always dusted it off. It obviously was something that meant a great deal to him, maybe he couldn't anwser, maybe he didn't know why he kept on at himself? Maybe it was too painful for him to even delve into.

I don't think Michael was a nasty malcious person, his lies were cringy but not evil. I don't think he was good enough a liar to get away with it. The world was like 'Yeah, sure Michael!' and that made him seem all the more kooky because he knew he was telling fibs about things, the world knew too... so it was simply just unnecessary for him to lie at all. He just was insecure. It's sad really. He made it so hard on himself. Maybe if he wrote an honest book instead of doing interviews which he obviously wasn't good at. It's just so frustrating. He needed better publicists, people who cared about him, people who didn't plonk him about when he was obviously in need of help.

MichaelJackson5 said:

mjscarousal said:

The only reason you want to talk to him is because he sides with some of your opinions. There is nothing classy about you or the way you have behaved since joining this site. I don't care to talk to grown adults who don't know how to have an intelligent mature conversation. Go ahead along your merry way

No, you wouldn't know what class is if it dropped on your head. You're abrasive and use coarse language to attack those that don't drink the same Kool-Aid that you have your whole life.

That was never what Michael Jackson was about. He wanted to Heal The World through love. The only time he has sworn is on Scream.

If you could concentrate for more than 5 seconds you'd see that I acknowledged OffTheWall's argument that MJ made some videos geared towards children even before his transformation.

Normal people can agree to disagree without turning into a drama queen. You have a lot of life lessons to learn because if this is your persona in the real world, you aren't going too far.

I told you to take your pressed ass some place else because you called MJ a racist and have personally insulted him this entire time. Please don't act obtuse like I am just critizing you for no reason. You wanted the attention...well..here it is. What I don't understand is, you bash MJ and harshly attack him but then wonder why people challenge you? You patronize others who disagree with you as "delusional mj fans" but you wonder why people bash you? I am really sick and tired of your fake MJ fan act, your constant trolling and you constantly disrupting threads for other users who geniunely want to enjoy threads. I tried to maturely ask you to bring facts to support your opinions but you immaturely insisted my opinions were delusional simply because you disagreed. Please don't sit here and talk about MJ's Heal the world, when you called him racist and criticized him for his lack of intergrity and dignity as a person

You got alot of nerve. You look silly trying to judge a person you don't even know and constantly begging for mature discussion when you can't even have one yourself and you don't know the first thing about me so you really shouldn't be assessing me like you do...

[Edited 10/24/15 20:40pm]

mjscarousal said:

MichaelJackson5 said:

There are no MJ-Haters here. There are people such as Scorp and I who hate the false narrative and I can say, for myself, the delusional zealous fans are hated by everyone. They're the ones that make it embarassing today to people who want to continue being his fan because they make fools of themselves on YouTube with silly videos to "prove" those three kids are his biological children. Any fool can see those kids aren't from him. Then, they wonder why they're the biggest joke out of all music fanbases.

Let OffTheWall speak. He/she has more class and decency than you can ever comprehend.

The only reason you want to talk to him is because he sides with some of your opinions. There is nothing classy about you or the way you have behaved since joining this site. I don't care to talk to grown adults who don't know how to have an intelligent mature conversation. Go ahead along your merry way

I am a girl! But what do you mean? Did I say something bad about Mike? I don't think so. I love Michael Jackson honestly. I deeply care about him even though his body is disposed of now, I still care deeplyyy about him and wish him well wherever he is now.

OfftheWall said:

mjscarousal said:

The only reason you want to talk to him is because he sides with some of your opinions. There is nothing classy about you or the way you have behaved since joining this site. I don't care to talk to grown adults who don't know how to have an intelligent mature conversation. Go ahead along your merry way

I am a girl! But what do you mean? Did I say something bad about Mike? I don't think so. I love Michael Jackson honestly. I deeply care about him even though his body is disposed of now, I still care deeplyyy about him and wish him well wherever he is now.

Sorry! That was an accident I promise. No I was not suggesting you said anything bad and I always enjoy your insightful posts, no worries. However, MichaelJackson5 seems to only want to engage with other users that he can persuade or who semi' agrees with his perspectives and that is not how you have an engaging rational non biased adult discussion despite his persistance of the contrary. Also, he has attacked and defamed MJ's character, integrity, dignity and competence since joinging this site. Not to mention, he makes it a point to go out of his way to do so, so it bewilders me that he really wants us to believe he is a MJ fan. Oh and I love and miss MJ dearly gurlie, you are not the only one!

[Edited 10/24/15 20:54pm]

OfftheWall said:

MichaelJackson5 said:

That's MJ's main dilemna. Once he began his lies, he was stuck in a no-win situation.

I was watching a documentary on Ricky Martin and once he finally admitted his sexual orientatiion he felt that he was freed by the truth.

That's not to say MJ was gay, because like Taraborelli says, MJ was likely asexual. But the truth would have made him a happier person and he might still be alive today if he chose the righteous path.

I think Michael was just so insecure that he felt like spontanious snaps like the one about Blankets mother were the way to go. Instead of stopping and thinking, or refusing to anwser, he just made it worse by lying. 'Two... if I can remember. But so what?' He told Oprah, shrugging and acting nonchalant. ACTING being the main point here. He was obviously uncomfortable, and didn't want to talk about it at all. I can read through him like a book.

I don't think his lies were dark. I think he was just frightened in all honesty. He wanted to be understood by the public but he just couldn't really allow himself to be that vulnerable I think. He was insecure about his surgery, that was a topic that never got far in interviews ever. He always dusted it off. It obviously was something that meant a great deal to him, maybe he couldn't anwser, maybe he didn't know why he kept on at himself? Maybe it was too painful for him to even delve into.

I don't think Michael was a nasty malcious person, his lies were cringy but not evil. I don't think he was good enough a liar to get away with it. The world was like 'Yeah, sure Michael!' and that made him seem all the more kooky because he knew he was telling fibs about things, the world knew too... so it was simply just unnecessary for him to lie at all. He just was insecure. It's sad really. He made it so hard on himself. Maybe if he wrote an honest book instead of doing interviews which he obviously wasn't good at. It's just so frustrating. He needed better publicists, people who cared about him, people who didn't plonk him about when he was obviously in need of help.

He certainly had an awful public relations team.

The thing is, he was having operations that were making him look less like a black man at the same time his skin was lightening. People across world, especially America because of it's history of racial problems, wanted to understand what was going on.

Since he chose to give the interview to Oprah, he should have put his demons aside and addresed the truth. The entire reason for the interview was to clear things up, not create a false narrative.

Why don't I believe MJ has vitiligo? It's because you have a man that was already ashamed of his natural state having surgeries to remove all signs of his racial heritage, he then develops a skin disorder that makes him lose his color, goes on to marry a white woman and has two consecutive "biracial" kids that look nothing like him. That's a lot of coincidences to all happen to a guy was very visibly black in the 60s, 70s, early 80s.

While the LA County Coroner's Office states he had vitiligo, it also stated that he was 5 ft 9 inches while on his mugshot back in 2003, it states he is 5 ft. 11 inches. So the autopsy report isn't as ironclad as some fans want to think.

Sooooooooo it seems this thread is getting out of hand. Time to lock this puppy up

The next new thread I recreate better not end up like this thread or else. And I will be watching