kitbradley said:

I guess it depends on what you are basing your measurements on.

Whitney debuted in 1985 but her star did not really start the rise to a global fame level until 1987 onwards. Prince was huge with Purple Rain though, number one single, album and film at the same time and the film was criticaly acclaimed too, not just another summer blockbuster so if you are going on impact alone then it would be Prince for that decade.

Baylana said:

I guess it depends on what you are basing your measurements on.

Whitney debuted in 1985 but her star did not really start the rise to a global fame level until 1987 onwards. Prince was huge with Purple Rain though, number one single, album and film at the same time and the film was criticaly acclaimed too, not just another summer blockbuster so if you are going on impact alone then it would be Prince for that decade.

Yeah, I can see this actually.

I am re-thinking what I said previously about impact too. My thoughts were after the AC component of Whitney's debut made such a splash on radio, it had a more lasting effect on the R&B of the eighties (or anyone with the Hush Productions vibe) and also *consumer demand*. Since Whitney's star continued to rise, it seems like the impact was on the listeners who wanted more and more of her brand. Meanwhile, Prince couldn't score another #1 until "Batdance". My theory was that it also inspired writers and producers to make the kind of music that would fit the market after Whitney's success.

I played devil's advocate to try and wrestle some reasons out of Graycap but he provided none. I know for sure that Prince's sexy image, branding, religious philosophy, clothing, hair, guitar playing, drum playing, keyboard playing, drum programming, stage show, sense of humor, lyrical style, using numbers 2 shorten text, allllll that stuff had a much greater influence on artists, and there was a lot more to his artistry than funk.

Cinny said:

Cinny said:

I am re-thinking what I said previously about impact too. My thoughts were after the AC component of Whitney's debut made such a splash on radio, it had a more lasting effect on the R&B of the eighties (or anyone with the Hush Productions vibe) and also *consumer demand*. Since Whitney's star continued to rise, it seems like the impact was on the listeners who wanted more and more of her brand.

Diane Warren became one of the most successful songwriters starting in the 1980s and Whitney has done some songs by her. Even Aerosmith recorded one of her songs. David Foster is also known for AC and many famous acts have worked with him. You could also say Clive Davis has pushed AC, like changing Kenny G.'s music style and that's when Kenny became big and helped to popularize smooth jazz which resulted in The Wave radio format. Clive restarted the careers of Aretha Franklin & Dionne Warwick too.

Graycap23 said:

who do u think she influenced?

Who did Whitney influence?...LOL....You tripping...All you gotta do is Name all the Pop & R&B Female singers from 1990 thru 2015..Start with MiMi Carey and work your way thru Beyonce and end on Adele...Yes, "Classic" Whitney set the standard for the Female Vocalists that came after her...Even the Reality Show Sing-offs had up & coming Artists like Kelly Clarkson & Carrie Underwood TRYING to belt a Whitney Classic..Notice the word "trying".....Don't hate on Whitney becuz her Drug-addiction killed her Talent and ultimately took her out of this World...She still deserves her propers even after her Death...

Chancellor said:

Graycap23 said:

who do u think she influenced?

Who did Whitney influence?...LOL....You tripping...All you gotta do is Name all the Pop & R&B Female singers from 1990 thru 2015..Start with MiMi Carey and work your way thru Beyonce and end on Adele...Yes, "Classic" Whitney set the standard for the Female Vocalists that came after her...Even the Reality Show Sing-offs had up & coming Artists like Kelly Clarkson & Carrie Underwood TRYING to belt a Whitney Classic..Notice the word "trying".....Don't hate on Whitney becuz her Drug-addiction killed her Talent and ultimately took her out of this World...She still deserves her propers even after her Death...

And u think that list is longer than the list of Artist influeneced by Prince?

Graycap23 said:

Chancellor said:

Who did Whitney influence?...LOL....You tripping...All you gotta do is Name all the Pop & R&B Female singers from 1990 thru 2015..Start with MiMi Carey and work your way thru Beyonce and end on Adele...Yes, "Classic" Whitney set the standard for the Female Vocalists that came after her...Even the Reality Show Sing-offs had up & coming Artists like Kelly Clarkson & Carrie Underwood TRYING to belt a Whitney Classic..Notice the word "trying".....Don't hate on Whitney becuz her Drug-addiction killed her Talent and ultimately took her out of this World...She still deserves her propers even after her Death...

And u think that list is longer than the list of Artist influeneced by Prince?

If we were in a court of law, this case would be hard to prove either way. We are all going off of subjective thoughts based on what we think we hear when we listen to music. I primarily determine who was bigger or influential by record sales, chart positions and a who's who list of other artists who have publically said Nippy or Prince influenced them. Record sales in the 80's is probably not the best way to gauge success since prior to Sound Scan, labels made up whatever numbers they wanted. We can argue for weeks about who was bigger and no one is going to win. Both artists had a tremendous influence on music in the 80s and beyond, more so than the overwhelming majority of their peers. It's really difficult to downplay any of their accomplishments.

[Edited 7/13/15 6:01am]

kitbradley said:

Graycap23 said:

And u think that list is longer than the list of Artist influeneced by Prince?

If we were in a court of law, this case would be hard to prove either way. We are all going off of subjective thoughts based on what we think we hear when we listen to music. I primarily determine who was bigger by record sales, chart positions and a who's who list of other artists who have publically said Nippy or Prince influenced them. Record sales in the 80's is probably not the best way to gauge success since prior to Sound Scan, labels made up whatever numbers they wanted. We can argue for weeks about who was bigger and no one is going to win. Both artists had a tremendous influence on music in the 80s and beyond, more so than the overwhelming majority of their peers. No one can really downplay any of their accomplishments.

It isn't a metter of downplaying.

I'm trying 2 figure out how a vocalist has had a bigger impact than a musician/vocalist/producer/writer/.....

Hell, Shitney was way bigger than Prince. She killed funk and she opened the doors for adult contemporary to take over R&B radio. After her, came Anita Faker, Regina Hell, Mariah Scarey, Deaddie Jackson, and endless others. In the five short years of the latter part of the 1980s after she came out, by the time the 1990s arrived, there were so many adult contemporary R&B artists that full fledged adult contemporary R&B radio stations started popping up everywhere. There were a few dull asses before her but never enough to start an entire radio station format of it because it was predominately funk before her. And just look at all the dull asses she influenced in the next generation. Dull ass Brandy considers Shitney as her idol. Hell, all these dull ass TV talent shows are patterned after Shitney's type of music....slow, rhythmless, and dull as hell.

.

Prince was always big in the R&B world in the early 1980s and was huge during "Purple Rain" and during the late 1980s wasn't as big as during "Purple Rain" but was bigger than he was before it because he had a pop audience as well as an R&B audience by then. And yes, he was very influential on some of the late 1980s funk bands like Ready For The World and several others like them. But his impact was nothing near as huge as Little Miss Goodie Two Shoes. If he had been bigger than her, R&B would have at least continued on jamming hard in the 1990s but instead, most of it turned to adult contemporary and it never changed back. That's her influence, not Prince's.

vainandy said:

Hell, Shitney was way bigger than Prince. She killed funk and she opened the doors for adult contemporary to take over R&B radio. After her, came Anita Faker, Regina Hell, Mariah Scarey, Deaddie Jackson, and endless others. In the five short years of the latter part of the 1980s after she came out, by the time the 1990s arrived, there were so many adult contemporary R&B artists that full fledged adult contemporary R&B radio stations started popping up everywhere. There were a few dull asses before her but never enough to start an entire radio station format of it because it was predominately funk before her. And just look at all the dull asses she influenced in the next generation. Dull ass Brandy considers Shitney as her idol. Hell, all these dull ass TV talent shows are patterned after Shitney's type of music....slow, rhythmless, and dull as hell.

.

Prince was always big in the R&B world in the early 1980s and was huge during "Purple Rain" and during the late 1980s wasn't as big as during "Purple Rain" but was bigger than he was before it because he had a pop audience as well as an R&B audience by then. And yes, he was very influential on some of the late 1980s funk bands like Ready For The World and several others like them. But his impact was nothing near as huge as Little Miss Goodie Two Shoes. If he had been bigger than her, R&B would have at least continued on jamming hard in the 1990s but instead, most of it turned to adult contemporary and it never changed back. That's her influence, not Prince's.

I know 100's if not a 1,000 plus musicians.

Not a single one has ever said 2 me that they were influenced by Whitney Houston.

A handfull of vocalist have stated they they were.

Graycap23 said:

I know 100's if not a 1,000 plus musicians.

Not a single one has ever said 2 me that they were influenced by Whitney Houston.

A handfull of vocalist have stated they they were.

But you say you don't listen to mainstream pop music, so of course you're not going to see Whitney's influence, just like you wouldn't see the influence of Garth Brooks & Shania Twain on modern mainstream country. Stuff like D'Angelo & Mint Condition doesn't sell big and they aren't household names. Those kinds of acts have a niche audience. If you go to Youtube, they don't get the numbers of Rihanna, Psy, Pitbull, or Taylor Swift.

MickyDolenz said:

Graycap23 said:

I know 100's if not a 1,000 plus musicians.

Not a single one has ever said 2 me that they were influenced by Whitney Houston.

A handfull of vocalist have stated they they were.

But you say you don't listen to mainstream pop music,

Well.....u might be on 2 something.

Graycap23 said:

kitbradley said:

If we were in a court of law, this case would be hard to prove either way. We are all going off of subjective thoughts based on what we think we hear when we listen to music. I primarily determine who was bigger by record sales, chart positions and a who's who list of other artists who have publically said Nippy or Prince influenced them. Record sales in the 80's is probably not the best way to gauge success since prior to Sound Scan, labels made up whatever numbers they wanted. We can argue for weeks about who was bigger and no one is going to win. Both artists had a tremendous influence on music in the 80s and beyond, more so than the overwhelming majority of their peers. No one can really downplay any of their accomplishments.

It isn't a metter of downplaying.

I'm trying 2 figure out how a vocalist has had a bigger impact than a musician/vocalist/producer/writer/.....

You talk as though that isn't possible.

MotownSubdivision said:

Graycap23 said:

It isn't a metter of downplaying.

I'm trying 2 figure out how a vocalist has had a bigger impact than a musician/vocalist/producer/writer/.....

You talk as though that isn't possible.

Don't miss understand.

I'm not saying it isn't possible.

I'm trying 2 understand it.

Graycap23 said:

Don't miss understand.

I'm not saying it isn't possible.

I'm trying 2 understand it.

Wouldn't you say Billie Holiday influenced more performers than Terence Trent D'Arby & Ray Parker Jr.? Just because someone plays an instrument or writes songs does not necessarily mean they have more impact than a singer who does not write. Gospel singers & choirs in general do not write their own material, and they were big influences on R&B/soul singers. Those genres probably wouldn't exist without gospel & blues, so then no rock & roll. Elvis Presley & Little Richard got some of their vocal style from gospel and others like Sam Cooke & Aretha Franklin started out singing gospel.

MickyDolenz said:

Graycap23 said:

Don't miss understand.

I'm not saying it isn't possible.

I'm trying 2 understand it.

Wouldn't you say Billie Holiday influenced more performers than Terence Trent D'Arby & Ray Parker Jr.? Just because someone plays an instrument or writes songs does not necessarily mean they have more impact than a singer who does not write. Gospel singers & choirs in general do not write their own material, and they were big influences on R&B/soul singers. Those genres probably wouldn't exist without gospel & blues, so then no rock & roll. Elvis Presley & Little Richard got some of their vocal style from gospel and others like Sam Cooke & Aretha Franklin started out singing gospel.

That is basic common sense.

I'm trying 2 understand the so called big impact of Whitney Houston.

Graycap23 said:

vainandy said:

Hell, Shitney was way bigger than Prince. She killed funk and she opened the doors for adult contemporary to take over R&B radio. After her, came Anita Faker, Regina Hell, Mariah Scarey, Deaddie Jackson, and endless others. In the five short years of the latter part of the 1980s after she came out, by the time the 1990s arrived, there were so many adult contemporary R&B artists that full fledged adult contemporary R&B radio stations started popping up everywhere. There were a few dull asses before her but never enough to start an entire radio station format of it because it was predominately funk before her. And just look at all the dull asses she influenced in the next generation. Dull ass Brandy considers Shitney as her idol. Hell, all these dull ass TV talent shows are patterned after Shitney's type of music....slow, rhythmless, and dull as hell.

.

Prince was always big in the R&B world in the early 1980s and was huge during "Purple Rain" and during the late 1980s wasn't as big as during "Purple Rain" but was bigger than he was before it because he had a pop audience as well as an R&B audience by then. And yes, he was very influential on some of the late 1980s funk bands like Ready For The World and several others like them. But his impact was nothing near as huge as Little Miss Goodie Two Shoes. If he had been bigger than her, R&B would have at least continued on jamming hard in the 1990s but instead, most of it turned to adult contemporary and it never changed back. That's her influence, not Prince's.

I know 100's if not a 1,000 plus musicians.

Not a single one has ever said 2 me that they were influenced by Whitney Houston.

A handfull of vocalist have stated they they were.

And after the 1980s ended, just how many musicians had huge success in the R&B world? Very few.

.

After funk died, it was adult contemporary that took over which was very family friendly and shit hop replaced the rebellion void that was left after funk's death and it was done with samples and Fisher Price instruments and at a slow, dull adult contemporary tempo. I think that Shitney even had an influence on shit hop too since previously, in the 1980s when it was still hip hop, most of it that made it onto the radio was very uptempo, much of which had previously been even more uptempo than funk. Hell, a lot of rap was more at a disco tempo prior to the adult contemporary filled 1990s to present era.

.

If Prince had been the bigger influence, there would be funk/rock all over the radio these days.

.

.

.

[Edited 7/13/15 14:29pm]

Graycap23 said:

MickyDolenz said:

Wouldn't you say Billie Holiday influenced more performers than Terence Trent D'Arby & Ray Parker Jr.? Just because someone plays an instrument or writes songs does not necessarily mean they have more impact than a singer who does not write. Gospel singers & choirs in general do not write their own material, and they were big influences on R&B/soul singers. Those genres probably wouldn't exist without gospel & blues, so then no rock & roll. Elvis Presley & Little Richard got some of their vocal style from gospel and others like Sam Cooke & Aretha Franklin started out singing gospel.

That is basic common sense.

I'm trying 2 understand the so called big impact of Whitney Houston.

Well hell, I'll never understand it either. It just boils down to people having horrible dull taste.

vainandy said:

And after the 1980s ended, just how many musicians had huge success in the R&B world? Very few.

But a lot of Whitney's music had session musicians on it and string sections, especially her records in the 1980s. New Jack Swing and rap might have had more to do with bands becoming obsolete in popular R&B. So Producers like Teddy Riley, Al B Sure! & Kyle West, LA & Babyface, Jam & Lewis, etc. tended to use programming, which you didn't need extra players. Same for dance producers like Stock Aitken Waterman. Although there were many vocal groups before them, New Edition pretty much started off the modern era. NE and Force MDs both had singing and rapping on some of their songs, which is what R&B is now. Instead of a guitar or sax break, there's a rap break.

NorthC said:

I don't think anybody in their right mind would put Whitney Houston (Nibby/Shitney...) on the same level as Billie Holiday (if only because I've never seen Vainandy refer to her as Silly Holiday ) And as for gospel, sure Micky is right, it influenced soul music big time, but we're talking about a genre, not one particular singer.

Unlike Vainandy, I like Whitney's music (& adult contemporary) and have most of her albums, except the last 2 or 3. Like Sade & George Michael, Whitney released few albums.

NorthC said:

Around 1990, acts like Living Colour, Lenny Kravitz, Fishbone and The Red Hot Chili Peppers broke through and Mothers Finest came back together, so there was plenty of funkrock (or rockfunk or funkmetal) around at that time. None of them were "big" in terms of hits, but they did pretty well on the festival circuit, so funkrock surely wasn't dead. [Edited 7/13/15 16:04pm]

That may be so, but it was dead on the radio, which generally determines what gets on the singles charts. Not everyone goes to concerts. R&B radio stations at the time didn't play groups like that. It was Shai, SWV, En Vogue, Jodeci, Color Me Badd, Tevin Campbell, MC Hammer, Boyz II Men, BBD, Kris Kross, etc. The only band I remember being played on the radio a lot was Tony! Toni! Toné! and they had New Jack & hip hop elements like samples in their music, so it fit.

Prince has influenced a lot of current dance/pop artists though. Such as The Neptunes, Timbaland, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Ariana Grande, Katy Perry, Timberlake, Bruno Mars, Charlie XCX, Lorde, and a huge number of others who have expressed that they are either influenced/fans of him. This isn't meant to disagree with anyone, btw. Just a note.

[Edited 7/13/15 16:47pm]

if "bigger" is determined by U.S. chart success then Prince beats Whitney since he was around for the entire decade charting many more singles and albums.

Joel Whitburn's Billboard books ranks Prince as the #1 R&B singles artist and #1 R&B albums artist of the 80s. Whitney is the #25 R&B singles artist of the 80s and doesn't even make the top 25 R&B albums artists of that decade.

On the pop charts, Prince is the #3 pop singles artist and #2 pop albums artist of the 80s. Whitney is the #14 pop singles artist and again doesn't make the top 50 pop albums list having only released two albums during that time.

Again, this is based on U.S. chart positions only.

Whitney I think had like 6 number one hits in a row and both Whitney Houston and Whitney went Diamond. The first singles started off slow, but her third single Saving all my love for you, started off a series of mega hits.

.

Whereas MJ's success was centered around 1982 - 1984 and 1987/88 and Madges between 1984 and 89. Prince was present between 1983 and 1990, but had a fair share of lesser hits and flops though.

.

My guess would be

1. MJ

2. Madonna

3. Whitney

4. Prince

fred12 said:

I am like everyone else, it depends on how you look at it..overall though, Whitnney may have had more number ones, but Prince was the mega star..just riding off the success with Purple Rain, made him a huge star..the questions should be, who were bigger female stars in the 80s, WHITNEY, MADONNA, or JANET? or who were the biggest stars of the 80s?..MICHAEL, WHITNEY, MADONNA< JANET, PRINCE, or ETC

Wasn't Tina Turner pretty huge in the 80s?

OldFriends4Sale said: