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Thread started 05/27/14 10:31am

Shawy89

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Questlove: Does Black Culture Need to Care About What Happens to Hip-Hop?

It's time for the showdown. Get ready for the lowdown. We've come to the end of the road.

When I started this series of columns six weeks ago, I wanted to think through a series of issues: why the bulk of contemporary African-American culture has defaulted into hip-hop, why materialistic narratives seem to dominate the genre, what has happened to the concept of black cool, what increasingly anemic sales mean for both big stars and independent artists, and where all of this leaves us.

It leaves us here, in the sixth and final column, thinking about all these things. Sometimes when you think, you come up empty. But when I go back through this series in my mind, I come up so full that I’m not sure what to do next. Three decades plus into this exciting and vibrant genre, there are some serious structural problems that seem almost insoluble. There are times that I feel that the whole thing is perched on the edge of a cliff and time is about to push it off.

When I think that, I always find my thoughts returning to music. Not to music as an aesthetic category, but to music in the social sense. Music can be created by an individual or a group, but it is meant to be heard by others. It operated that way as ritual (in weddings and funerals, in wars and parades) long before it was ever preserved as a physical product, or sold as a commercial one. Music is something that happens between people. This is true for classical music or instrumental jazz, but it's true with one added dimension for a music like hip-hop, because it's narrative by nature. As a result, it's music between people that is also explicitly about people.

These are the basics. Let's color outside the lines a little bit. Sun Ra said that space is the place, but there's race in the space also. Hip-hop is inseparable from black America and black Americans, who are either creators or consumers or subject matter, or sometimes all three. Like it or not, it exerts a pull on the black community. It can pull us up or it can pull us down or it can pull us apart.

Does black culture need to care about what happens to hip-hop? Does it need a cultural force like hip-hop at all? I can't predict the future. If I could, I'd have put a bundle on California Chrome. But I can say that black culture has needed that historically. The famous black academic Charles S. Johnson, who was instrumental in the Harlem Renaissance, published a magazine for black Americans called Opportunity; its title sent a different message than W.E.B. DuBois's Crisis, but they were two sides of the same coin. Johnson thought (knew?) that the arts were important because black Americans were denied equal treatment in many other respects. The arts, he figured, could be a site of resistance.

Resistance here doesn't mean revolution. It doesn't mean storming the barricades. Resistance means using art for the things that it does best, which is to create human portraits and communicate ideas and forge a climate where people of different races or classes are known to you because they make themselves known. In the simplest terms, art humanizes. It opens the circuit of empathy. And once that process happens, it's that much harder to think of people as part of a policy or a statistic. Art reverses the alienation that can creep into society. After Johnson, after DuBois, the Harlem Renaissance itself stalled, largely as a result of the Great Depression, and many of the economic gains made by African-Americans were lost, but cultural influence persisted. You could make an argument that it was as important as anything for speeding along the very real political and social gains of the '50s and '60s.

That's what music has been good for, historically, in the black community. Jazz did that. It forced the mainstream to see black musicians as virtuosos with complex ideas and powerful (and recognizable) emotions. How are you going to treat someone as less than human, in any way, once they've been so deeply human in full view? Soul music did that, because it addressed universal romantic problems. Who has trouble identifying with a Smokey Robinson lyric? No one human, that's for sure. Hip-hop started from that premise. It was rooted there. It didn't shy away from the fact that America, built the way it was, made certain economic and social advances difficult for African-Americans, but it also made an entire community visible, impossible to ignore, impossible to dehumanize. Hip-hop, because of the way that it was made, because of what it was at its heart, blazed new trails and also recontextualized the past. Where other musics, like disco, were plastic to the point where they started to feel like factory product, early hip-hop was the perfect music for an era of flexible accumulation: fast on its feet, fleet with its thoughts. It could range and roam and shine a light into any corner of the culture.

Six weeks ago, at the beginning of this series, I opened with quotes from John Bradford, Albert Einstein, and Ice Cube. Between them, they sketched out their own version of this idea. Bradford talked about luck and providence (“There but for the grace of God go I”); Einstein talked about community (“spooky action at a distance”); and Ice Cube talked about appetite (“Life ain’t nothing but bitches and money”). Those three ideas outline a triangle, and inside that triangle are people reflecting on their own good fortune, recognizing that they’re connected to others, grappling with their own aspirations. Hip-hop has a responsibility to these ideas, and because of that, a responsibility not to fall victim to other ideas that actively obstruct them. This responsibility doesn’t fall to individual artists in a narrow way. There will always be artists who want to be shallowly materialistic or who permit themselves to be reduced to caricature. But the broader genre needs to balance them off with other kinds of artists, other perspectives, and there’s been a steady move away from that kind of balance for the last decade at least. Culture needs to struggle against meaninglessness and flattening. That's why it's vital that one of those sites of meaningless shouldn't be the culture itself.

These may seem like uncontroversial ideas — that art should, at some level, be about humanity, and that culture should, in some way, be a tool for fighting adversity. But any support for those ideas have to have better practices attached to them than the ones that have taken over hip-hop. People pick up on the ideas that pop culture puts down, so if one of those ideas is that only so-called winners get a platform, which they then use to talk more about their winning, that will seep into the groundwater. Contemporary hip-hop worries too much about the bottom line, which is lower than it's ever been. If you dive for it, you may find yourself stuck down there. And being stuck down there means mean fewer options for future artists, more investment in stereotypical portraits of hip-hop acts (some encouraged by the acts themselves), and less empathy all around. It’s important not to let this whole thing eat itself. It's more than important. It is, in a sense, everything.

I’ll end with two examples from the early '70s, around the time I was born, when soul music seemed as if it was largely fulfilling these responsibilities. In fact, if there’s one era in the history of popular music where community awareness and social contract seem secure, it’s the soul music of the early '70s. And yet, and yet. In 1972, after the success of What’s Going On, Marvin Gaye started an album of explicitly political songs in the vein of “Inner City Blues (Makes Me Wanna Holler).” The first track from that set, and the projected title track, “You’re the Man,” went after political candidates. If you have a plan, Gaye sang, then I’ll give you my vote, but you have to handle real problems: busing in schools, urban economics. The most piercing part of the song is a repeated spoken-word couplet:

Don't you understand
There's misery in the land


Gaye had different politics than Berry Gordy, and Gordy didn’t throw much support behind the “You’re the Man” single, which stalled mid-chart, after which the album was shelved. Two decades later, after Gaye’s death, tracks started to appear on compilations. Some of these were open-ended laments for society’s short-sightedness (“Where Are We Going?”); others were more specific arguments about the dangers of controlling others (“Piece of Clay”) or the hypocrisy of objecting to sex in the face of so many other kinds of social pornography, from poverty to violence to pollution (“The World Is Rated X”). The details may have shifted, but the core of Gaye’s argument remains intact. When we resist cultural acts that directly address the complexity of the human condition, both intellectually and emotionally, we reduce ourselves.

The second example is an extended quote from Bobby Womack. Is there any other kind? This particular quote is the monologue that preceded his 1971 cover of the Carpenters’ “Close to You.” In his rap, Womack doesn't talk about the complications of black cool, or the history of social responsibility in the arts. He focuses only on one aspect, which is the pressure of the market, and how it can both insidiously and obviously strip all meaning out of artwork, draining and demoralizing its artists by insisting they need to satisfy some impersonal notion of product. The fact of the matter, of course, is that Womack had no problem covering pop songs — he did it all the time, from “Sweet Caroline” to “Fire and Rain” — but he frequently added material up top or improvised to make the material more personal, more empathetic. As he goes through his monologue, Womack does exactly what he worries he isn't being allowed to do — he paints a full picture of himself as a thinking, feeling, suffering, achieving human, capable of irony and insight, impossible to reduce to a caricature.

Sittin' here sippin' on a glass of wine and I'm trying my best not to lose my mind. You know, thinkin' about the word. Heh, "commercial": That's a funny, funny, funny word! Ya know what's funnier than that? When show people use it. You know what I'm talking about, record companies, presidents, vice-presidents, producers — and a little ol' engineer. But, you know what? I feel, down in my heart, I don't care what it is. If I can get into it, it's commercial enough for me. But anyway, I remember a little while back, I walked into a recording studio with just me and my guitar. Heh. And I remember starting out on a song … sort of went something like this … well, it had the same melody, anyway. The head man called in, the president, vice-president, and just one of his producers, and an engineer. You know they all sit around with their heads dropped down while I was trying to get over. You could hear a pin fall. I know y'all know what I'm talking about. And I'm steady trying to get over. But anyway, after I got through doing my thing — or should I say, doing the best that I could — I’ll never forget what they told me. One of the cats got up and say, “I like you, and I ain't saying that you can't sing.” But as they all began to leave the conference table, they kept saying “But you're not commercial. No, you’re not commercial!" So, I went on out or, should I say, I sold out. But like I've said before, music is music, that's how it is — and that's the way it is. Well, I didn’t change my style because I still had the same heart but just like the man said, he said, “Bobby, it’s got to be funky.” I came back and said, “I want to sing something. I want to sing.”


And then he does.

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Reply #1 posted 05/27/14 10:45am

scriptgirl

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I don't understand how Questlove, aka Granny Jenkins, became the arbiter and main cultural critic of all things black, esp black music. Who is letting him do this? Who gave him this role? Why must Questlove always be the main conduit through which we talk about these issues? Does no one else see how pretentious and assholey he is?

[Edited 5/27/14 10:45am]

"Lack of home training crosses all boundaries."
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Reply #2 posted 05/27/14 11:09am

HatrinaHaterwi
tz

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scriptgirl said:

I don't understand how Questlove, aka Granny Jenkins, became the arbiter and main cultural critic of all things black, esp black music. Who is letting him do this? Who gave him this role? Why must Questlove always be the main conduit through which we talk about these issues? Does no one else see how pretentious and assholey he is?

[Edited 5/27/14 10:45am]

Because he seems to be one of the only ones willing to talk about them publicly without the necessities of media cameras and large audiences.

I knew from the start that I loved you with all my heart.
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Reply #3 posted 05/27/14 11:11am

bashraka

I have been saying for years, that if Questlove would spend more time working on getting his group The Roots to sell more than 5 copies of their records, especially being on Def Jam, he would have less time moonlighting as a two-bit music critic and Purple Busybody. I do think his writing is amateurish along with the previous poster's superlative of "pretentious".

3121 #1 THIS YEAR
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Reply #4 posted 05/27/14 11:22am

scriptgirl

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Thank you, bashraka. And to be honest, I have never heard of anyone checking for the Roots, either.

"Lack of home training crosses all boundaries."
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Reply #5 posted 05/27/14 5:25pm

namepeace

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

scriptgirl said:

I don't understand how Questlove, aka Granny Jenkins, became the arbiter and main cultural critic of all things black, esp black music. Who is letting him do this? Who gave him this role? Why must Questlove always be the main conduit through which we talk about these issues? Does no one else see how pretentious and assholey he is?

[Edited 5/27/14 10:45am]

Because he seems to be one of the only ones willing to talk about them publicly without the necessities of media cameras and large audiences.


nod And FWIW, ?uestlove has neither claimed nor asked to be the "main conduit," etc.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #6 posted 05/27/14 5:28pm

namepeace

bashraka said:

I have been saying for years, that if Questlove would spend more time working on getting his group The Roots to sell more than 5 copies of their records, especially being on Def Jam, he would have less time moonlighting as a two-bit music critic and Purple Busybody. I do think his writing is amateurish along with the previous poster's superlative of "pretentious".


Why does he need to sell records to express his opinion? Aren't your comments kind of proving his point?

So The Roots' records don't sell. Even taking that, and even if I agreed with you about his writing (which I don't), why should that negate his main points about the state and evolution of hip-hop in comparison to jazz or R&B? Especially when they come from one of the more respected figures in the game?

[Edited 5/28/14 9:54am]

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #7 posted 05/27/14 5:29pm

namepeace

scriptgirl said:

Thank you, bashraka. And to be honest, I have never heard of anyone checking for the Roots, either.


Hate to be on different sides with you scriptgirl but clearly -- as evidenced by this very thread -- people are checking for ?uestlove.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #8 posted 05/27/14 5:35pm

datdude

bashraka said:

I have been saying for years, that if Questlove would spend more time working on getting his group The Roots to sell more than 5 copies of their records, especially being on Def Jam, he would have less time moonlighting as a two-bit music critic and Purple Busybody. I do think his writing is amateurish along with the previous poster's superlative of "pretentious".

If ppl don't get The Roots by now, they never will . And MAN, have they MISSED a lot! Black Thought is in the top 5 of my most underrated MC list. because ppl like "scriptgirl" and others don't know of anyone "checkin' for the Roots does not diminish their legacy, skill or invaluable contributions to the Hip Hop canon. The fact that they aren't frequently multiplatinum (and artists like Soulja Boy, etc have been) is part of the problem and part of the larger cultural dumbing down Quest speaks too. If yall don't like him, his writing, or that he can be a diva dude, doesn't mean he doesn't have some real truths to speak or contribute to relevant dialogues like the one his essay brings up. (Even a broke clock....)

I will admit that i didn't read the article. Because this subject is one I've devoted hours or personal writing and brainspace to and I personally prefer the Greg Tates, Chuck D's, Bikari Kitwanas, Cheo Hodari Cokers, Darrel Dawseys etc. writings on the subject to Questlove, but if he has the "mic" and they don't and he wants to leverage his platform to bring up issues, even if in a way that rubs some the wrong way... more power to him!

[Edited 5/27/14 17:37pm]

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Reply #9 posted 05/27/14 9:14pm

phunkdaddy

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Roots fan right here. I don't know of or care about the dynamic of him commenting on

anything Prince or DAngelo but he has earned the right to be a voice for hip hop. I did

find the wise crack about the Roots selling more than 5 copies to be a bit humorous.

The truth is these guys have more work on their plate than Soulja Boy, Yung Joc, 50 Cent, and other 15 minute rapper you wanna name. The Roots aren't a manufactured rap act. These guys are a working group. While some may see their late night gig as a joke I

would take it that their pockets are a hell of a lot fatter than ours. These guys have a new

project out now as we speak. Black Thought is one of my top 5 MC's period. Like datdude

said The Roots aren't for everybody just like Snoop Dogg, Eminem, and 50 Cent may not

be for everybody.

Don't laugh at my funk
This funk is a serious joint
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Reply #10 posted 05/28/14 4:54am

missfee

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datdude said:

bashraka said:

I have been saying for years, that if Questlove would spend more time working on getting his group The Roots to sell more than 5 copies of their records, especially being on Def Jam, he would have less time moonlighting as a two-bit music critic and Purple Busybody. I do think his writing is amateurish along with the previous poster's superlative of "pretentious".

If ppl don't get The Roots by now, they never will . And MAN, have they MISSED a lot! Black Thought is in the top 5 of my most underrated MC list. because ppl like "scriptgirl" and others don't know of anyone "checkin' for the Roots does not diminish their legacy, skill or invaluable contributions to the Hip Hop canon. The fact that they aren't frequently multiplatinum (and artists like Soulja Boy, etc have been) is part of the problem and part of the larger cultural dumbing down Quest speaks too. If yall don't like him, his writing, or that he can be a diva dude, doesn't mean he doesn't have some real truths to speak or contribute to relevant dialogues like the one his essay brings up. (Even a broke clock....)

I will admit that i didn't read the article. Because this subject is one I've devoted hours or personal writing and brainspace to and I personally prefer the Greg Tates, Chuck D's, Bikari Kitwanas, Cheo Hodari Cokers, Darrel Dawseys etc. writings on the subject to Questlove, but if he has the "mic" and they don't and he wants to leverage his platform to bring up issues, even if in a way that rubs some the wrong way... more power to him!

[Edited 5/27/14 17:37pm]

clapping

I will forever love and miss you...my sweet Prince.
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Reply #11 posted 05/28/14 4:55am

missfee

avatar

phunkdaddy said:

Roots fan right here. I don't know of or care about the dynamic of him commenting on

anything Prince or DAngelo but he has earned the right to be a voice for hip hop. I did

find the wise crack about the Roots selling more than 5 copies to be a bit humorous.

The truth is these guys have more work on their plate than Soulja Boy, Yung Joc, 50 Cent, and other 15 minute rapper you wanna name. The Roots aren't a manufactured rap act. These guys are a working group. While some may see their late night gig as a joke I

would take it that their pockets are a hell of a lot fatter than ours. These guys have a new

project out now as we speak. Black Thought is one of my top 5 MC's period. Like datdude

said The Roots aren't for everybody just like Snoop Dogg, Eminem, and 50 Cent may not

be for everybody.

Exactly. nod

I will forever love and miss you...my sweet Prince.
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Reply #12 posted 05/28/14 5:38am

RaspBerryGirlF
riend

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I must say I don't really know why some org members seem to object to Questlove's obsession with Prince. It was a bit weird when he made that Twitter comment about putting his name out there for participating in the remasters, but otherwise I think it's really cool to have a mainstream public figure who clearly knows his work as well as we do.
Heavenly wine and roses seems to whisper to me when you smile...
Always cry for love, never cry for pain...
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Reply #13 posted 05/28/14 6:36am

HatrinaHaterwi
tz

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datdude said:

bashraka said:

I have been saying for years, that if Questlove would spend more time working on getting his group The Roots to sell more than 5 copies of their records, especially being on Def Jam, he would have less time moonlighting as a two-bit music critic and Purple Busybody. I do think his writing is amateurish along with the previous poster's superlative of "pretentious".

If ppl don't get The Roots by now, they never will . And MAN, have they MISSED a lot! Black Thought is in the top 5 of my most underrated MC list. because ppl like "scriptgirl" and others don't know of anyone "checkin' for the Roots does not diminish their legacy, skill or invaluable contributions to the Hip Hop canon. The fact that they aren't frequently multiplatinum (and artists like Soulja Boy, etc have been) is part of the problem and part of the larger cultural dumbing down Quest speaks too. If yall don't like him, his writing, or that he can be a diva dude, doesn't mean he doesn't have some real truths to speak or contribute to relevant dialogues like the one his essay brings up. (Even a broke clock....)

I will admit that i didn't read the article. Because this subject is one I've devoted hours or personal writing and brainspace to and I personally prefer the Greg Tates, Chuck D's, Bikari Kitwanas, Cheo Hodari Cokers, Darrel Dawseys etc. writings on the subject to Questlove, but if he has the "mic" and they don't and he wants to leverage his platform to bring up issues, even if in a way that rubs some the wrong way... more power to him!

[Edited 5/27/14 17:37pm]

Exactly! nod

I knew from the start that I loved you with all my heart.
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Reply #14 posted 05/28/14 6:37am

HatrinaHaterwi
tz

avatar

missfee said:

phunkdaddy said:

Roots fan right here. I don't know of or care about the dynamic of him commenting on

anything Prince or DAngelo but he has earned the right to be a voice for hip hop. I did

find the wise crack about the Roots selling more than 5 copies to be a bit humorous.

The truth is these guys have more work on their plate than Soulja Boy, Yung Joc, 50 Cent, and other 15 minute rapper you wanna name. The Roots aren't a manufactured rap act. These guys are a working group. While some may see their late night gig as a joke I

would take it that their pockets are a hell of a lot fatter than ours. These guys have a new

project out now as we speak. Black Thought is one of my top 5 MC's period. Like datdude

said The Roots aren't for everybody just like Snoop Dogg, Eminem, and 50 Cent may not

be for everybody.

Exactly. nod

yeahthat

I knew from the start that I loved you with all my heart.
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Reply #15 posted 05/28/14 8:02am

thesoulbrother

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scriptgirl said:

I don't understand how Questlove, aka Granny Jenkins, became the arbiter and main cultural critic of all things black, esp black music. Who is letting him do this? Who gave him this role? Why must Questlove always be the main conduit through which we talk about these issues? Does no one else see how pretentious and assholey he is?

[Edited 5/27/14 10:45am]

I don't always agree with Questlove's opinion but that man has a right to speak his mind. Hell, I wish more artists would have the cajones to speak their opinion in this day and age. We could all use the dialouge.

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Reply #16 posted 05/28/14 11:10am

TonyVanDam

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phunkdaddy said:

Roots fan right here. I don't know of or care about the dynamic of him commenting on

anything Prince or DAngelo but he has earned the right to be a voice for hip hop. I did

find the wise crack about the Roots selling more than 5 copies to be a bit humorous.

The truth is these guys have more work on their plate than Soulja Boy, Yung Joc, 50 Cent, and other 15 minute rapper you wanna name. The Roots aren't a manufactured rap act. These guys are a working group. While some may see their late night gig as a joke I

would take it that their pockets are a hell of a lot fatter than ours. These guys have a new

project out now as we speak. Black Thought is one of my top 5 MC's period. Like datdude

said The Roots aren't for everybody just like Snoop Dogg, Eminem, and 50 Cent may not

be for everybody.

When there is a discussion about greatest hip-hop/rap groups of all times, I know the names of Public Enemy, NWA, Run-DMC, and even OutKast is name checked from time to time. But what I like to know is how come The Roots are excluded most of the time? hmmm

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