I always found it odd how white rock critics despise Phil Collins, Yet he is strangely widely loved in the r&b and even hip-hop community.

There was even a hip-hop tribute album to Phil with Lil Kim, ODB, Brandy & Ray J etc.

And his music has been sampled by Nas, DMX, 2Pac, Wale, Montel Jordan, Slick Rick, Cam'ron, R. kelly, Bone Thugs-n-Harmony, Public Enemy, Run-DMC, Jay-Z etc.

And he's been covered by Kelis, Usher, Joe, R. Kelly, Chaka Khan, D'angelo, Miguel and many others.

Is it cause the people of ''Gabriel era'' Genesis are still mad when he took over? it's just odd... that he is hated in a big way by rock music critics. But he is considered a legend in the r&b crowd.

nuff said.

Phil Collins was an artist's artist

I wish we had a Phil Collins in today's lackluster, bootleg music world...

All of the Phil Collins haters (especially Oasis) are f***ing idiots that don't know what the hell they're talking about, that's why.

lazycrockett said:

nuff said.

Sussudio is just a fun 80's song. He had a lot of other good songs, with great drumming.

To be honest... Phil is probably one of the only artists i can think of. That is hated by white, rock gurus. And loved by Black and Asian communities. And happens to be white

Come on... this song is the shit.

Interesting topic. Phil Collins' name is one of the most brought up when I'm discussing music with my friends who are mostly rap or R&B fans. Everyone I know seems to enjoy his music. The criticisms of him have paled in comparison to his crossover success with R&B and pop audiences.

Also, his drum programming is killer. I could probably listen to an album of nothing but his drum loops.

[Edited 12/22/13 13:50pm]

many rock purist feel that phil collins crossed over and got away from the light when he and phil collins colaborated.

imo phil collins is one of the best drummers of all time. as phil bailey is one of the best vocalist of all time. it was mutual respect from both to each other.

rock purist have to admit the roots of rock stem largely from r n' b.

90 % of Rock and roll is a genre of popular music that originated and evolved in the United States during the late 1940s and early 1950s, primarily from a combination of African-American genres such as blues, jump blues, jazz, and gospel music.

[Edited 12/22/13 14:34pm]

Yes, me and my cousin have discussed this.

There this condescending tone towards Phil from mostly white, mostly middle class, mostly middle-class, music journalists. Especially here in the UK.

And ya know what? Fuck that shit. It's totally uncalled for.

The irony? Like you say - Phil is ADORED by a crowd that is more credible than those people could ever hope to be.

I mean, just a few years ago, this happened - and it was on the urban TV channels HEAVILY and was a big hit.

Hip-Hop and R&B fans give Phil the respect he deserves.

Could be that he's loved by R&B purists?

I don't have a clue. I never got the hate that Phil seems 2 get from some critics and a few others.

I do know that he's one of my favorite artist and ill defend his work, pretty much until the end.

JoeyC said:

I don't have a clue. I never got the hate that Phil seems 2 get from some critics and a few others.

I do know that he's one of my favorite artist and ill defend his work, pretty much until the end.

You know what, f the haters !

Genesis. Its Gonna Get Better

steakfinger said:

Because rock purists put a lot of focus on lyrics and R&B purists could care less as long as the lyrics involve the word baby. Phil Collins is not much of a lyricist - at least not an interesting one. Perfect for R&B.

you for sure sound like a rock purist r&b has some incredible writers in it. You obviously haven't heard the right ones.

Interesting. I didn't know Phil Collins was so respected by R&B purists. It certainly hasn't anything to do with him not being a good lyricist: there have been many interesting R&B lyricists, like Guns has said.

---

I like Phil Collins. I'm not a huge fan of his music, but he has written timeless classics. Perhaps he is disliked by "white-rock" critics because he went an overtly commercial way during the 80s, whereas Peter Gabriel continued having a distinctive experimental approach.

[Edited 12/23/13 2:58am]

[Edited 12/23/13 2:59am]

Gunsnhalen said:

lazycrockett said:

nuff said.

Sussudio is just a fun 80's song. He had a lot of other good songs, with great drumming.

Hell yes. I've always loved Sussudio and I love Phil Collins work when he was in Genesis and both as a solo artist. Why he gets hate is confusing to me.

missfee said:

Gunsnhalen said:

Sussudio is just a fun 80's song. He had a lot of other good songs, with great drumming.

Hell yes. I've always loved Sussudio and I love Phil Collins work when he was in Genesis and both as a solo artist. Why he gets hate is confusing to me.

it's that he's a real artist....I'm talkin about a real artist

and when this Pop Ascension movement kicked off in 1987, he was one of the first artists who was kicked out the door because the industry no longer sought authenticity, which is why it finds itself in the situation it's in now

Phil appeared on Chaka's "Destiny" album on a Rock song called "Watching the World" but, to my knowledge, she has never covered one of his songs.

Gunsnhalen said:

And he's been covered by Kelis, Usher, Joe, R. Kelly, Chaka Khan, D'angelo, Miguel and many others.

I always thought the thing that most folks used against Phil was his looks. I thought he looked like he could be a stunt double for Bob Hoskins. The South Park episode where they basically destroyed Phil is classic.

But really, Take Me Home.. Another Day in Paradise... Do You Remember. This dude has hits to go. I bought his greatest hits album but I keep it hidden in the back behind Led Zeppelin.

[Edited 12/23/13 7:36am]

JoeyC said:

I don't have a clue. I never got the hate that Phil seems 2 get from some critics and a few others.

I do know that he's one of my favorite artist and ill defend his work, pretty much until the end.

I love Phil Collins. I think he's an underrated rock vocalist. His performances on "Mama" and "In the Air Tonight" are amazing. And he's a superb pop songwriter and vocalist.

free2bfreeda said:

rock purist have to admit the roots of rock stem largely from r n' b.

90 % of Rock and roll is a genre of popular music that originated and evolved in the United States during the late 1940s and early 1950s, primarily from a combination of African-American genres such as blues, jump blues, jazz, and gospel music.

[Edited 12/22/13 14:34pm]

And herein lies the key, IMHO. The rock millieu knows full well the pedigree of its music. What sets the likes of Phil Collins apart is that he would pay homage to it not only by finding inspiration in its rhythm lines, bluesy constructions, vocal stylings, etc., but also by not being coy about it. (I see you Led Zeppelin. ) He would duet with Philip Bailey. He would cover Supremes songs. He would give active blessing to the use of his sound by later hip hop and R&B acts. And he'd do all of that without estranging himself from "black" music, when, by virtue of its own pop success, it fell out of favor as the go-to aesthetic for the angsty, hate-everything-but-the-unsung rock sensibility that began to simmer with punk, brewed at college stations through the '80s, then really bubbled over with the "alternative" scene toward the '90s onward.

I happen to think much of Collins' work is sappy. But much of it is quite solid. And in any case, I've always appreciated that he seems genuinely respectful of the musical context of his sound. He hasn't raped the next exploitable style/look/cohort, and where he has organicaly engaged influences, he hasn't done it for "edginess," then hid his hand to feign genius or remain endeared to certain genre snobs.

[Edited 12/23/13 15:46pm]

steakfinger said:

Because rock purists put a lot of focus on lyrics and R&B purists could care less as long as the lyrics involve the word baby. Phil Collins is not much of a lyricist - at least not an interesting one. Perfect for R&B.

Thus spake a member of a Prince community.

Gunsnhalen said:

And his music has been sampled by Nas, DMX, 2Pac, Wale, Montel Jordan, Slick Rick, Cam'ron, R. kelly, Bone Thugs-n-Harmony, Public Enemy, Run-DMC, Jay-Z etc.

And Queen Pen! (In her song "Get Away.")

I read an interview in a German newspaper the other day where the interviewer was constantly trying to make fun of Phil Collins but he stayed calm and when he was asked what really surprised him lately Phil said that the rapper and actor Ice-T mentioned Phil in an interview as his favorite musician, and Phil loved that and the fact that many rap artists love and respect him.

I´m not a big fan but I find it silly that so many people think it´s cool to disrespect him. He is a very talented drummer and wrote some nice songs, plus he´s cool with people using his samples, and his music has been used in several video games in the Grand Theft Auto series...he even played himself in Grand Theft Auto:Vice City.

That makes him much cooler than Oasis and all those other idiots who hate him.

namepeace said:

steakfinger said:

Because rock purists put a lot of focus on lyrics and R&B purists could care less as long as the lyrics involve the word baby. Phil Collins is not much of a lyricist - at least not an interesting one. Perfect for R&B.

Thus spake a member of a Prince community.

A lot of artists were getting heat for doing what some considered to be cross over material on the 80s. Rock purists hated Phil Collins because he came from a prog rock background and they saw him as a sell out. Yes was criticized for Owner of a Lonely Heart. The Clash was hated for Rock the Casbah. Prince caught some criticism from rnb and funk purists for Purple Rain. Stevie Wonder got it for I Just Called to Say I Love You. Lionel Riche got it for his entire 80s output. I think rock purists just know how to hold a grudge longer than anyone else.

[Edited 12/23/13 14:55pm]

Butt loved.

Gunsnhalen said:

Come on... this song is the shit.

Hell yeah