cindymay said:

BlaqueKnight said:

Janelle's problem in the past has been that she doesn't have a hit. I don't think she tries too hard to be different; she IS different and she just keeps doing what she does. That's cool if you only want to have a small audience of hardcore fans. IMO, Janelle needs a solid song with a strong hook that falls in a standard structure. I don't think that entails dressing provocatively or trying to whore yourself out to your peer group. It just involes try to write something that is you but is in a format that most people can digest. Bruno Mars is a hook master. You may not like that sacchrine pop he does but you can at least remember his songs without effort. In the long run, that makes them effective. She needs an "effective" song. Every artist who is "famous" in the mainstream sense has that. She does not. Her talent, look and style are not at question. She has everything that makes a musical icon. She can sing. She is unique. She can dance. The only thing she is missing is a hit; a REAL hit. Until she writes one, she is not going to register with the mainstream public well.

Cold war hello...that song had hit material all over it but Tightrope was more successfull

Cold War was better structured but similar to Many Moons. Its not a song that would stick with the masses. Its good but its too busy for a lot of people.

Q.U.E.E.N. is a step in the right direction. Hook-wise, its her strongest song so far.

[Edited 6/4/13 8:22am]

BlaqueKnight said:

cindymay said:

Cold war hello...that song had hit material all over it but Tightrope was more successfull

Cold War was better structured but similar to Many Moons. Its not a song that would stick with the masses. Its good but its too busy for a lot of people.

Q.U.E.E.N. is a step in the right direction. Hook-wise, its her strongest song so far.

[Edited 6/4/13 8:22am]

also the title track the electric lady has a good hook...did you hear it? I bet this album is going to be really good...if the the archandroid wasn't enough musically

DysregulatedToxicity said:

scriptgirl said:

I know that being a fully dressed black female not selling sex and love definitely makes things harder for her. That being said when they refer to her in magazines they call her "pretty" or comment how great she looks, but RARELY ever mention her singing or her music. I think a lot has to be said for something like that as well. Yet, there are plenty of female singers out there who sound worse so what gives?

This is what I think:

Janelle needs a song with a really good hook . I guess people who claim that they are inspired by James Brown, Stevie Wonder, Prince, MJ, and etc. all forget that when they are citing these giants. It's the reason people such as Madonna, Rihanna, and Taylor Swift can stay on the Billboards and have major hits. All of these people I listed all have great songs with awesome hooks in them. Hell, most of you can shit on Lady Gaga, but hell she has some great songs. Same with Janet Jackson.

Then again, does she need to be famous like that? Groups such as Radiohead and Daft Punk are considered legends and aren't really popstars. Both of them have huge international followings as well.

Another thing I forgot to mention was that these artists all had clear gimmicks that attracted a real demogrphic. I feel that hers needs to be clearer. Like what is she trying to be? Who is she trying to target? Your message is to young black girls? What are you trying to tell them when you are onstage emulating James Brown?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

This what I mean.

[Edited 6/4/13 12:13pm]

BlaqueKnight said:

Janelle's problem in the past has been that she doesn't have a hit. I don't think she tries too hard to be different; she IS different and she just keeps doing what she does. That's cool if you only want to have a small audience of hardcore fans. IMO, Janelle needs a solid song with a strong hook that falls in a standard structure. I don't think that entails dressing provocatively or trying to whore yourself out to your peer group. It just involes try to write something that is you but is in a format that most people can digest. Bruno Mars is a hook master. You may not like that sacchrine pop he does but you can at least remember his songs without effort. In the long run, that makes them effective. She needs an "effective" song. Every artist who is "famous" in the mainstream sense has that. She does not. Her talent, look and style are not at question. She has everything that makes a musical icon. She can sing. She is unique. She can dance. The only thing she is missing is a hit; a REAL hit. Until she writes one, she is not going to register with the mainstream public well.

*
We don't agree on much, but we do here. Monae isn't "so famous" because her songs aren't

popular. But perhaps she doesn't want to be "so famous" - you ever consider that?!

duccichucka said:

BlaqueKnight said:

Janelle's problem in the past has been that she doesn't have a hit. I don't think she tries too hard to be different; she IS different and she just keeps doing what she does. That's cool if you only want to have a small audience of hardcore fans. IMO, Janelle needs a solid song with a strong hook that falls in a standard structure. I don't think that entails dressing provocatively or trying to whore yourself out to your peer group. It just involes try to write something that is you but is in a format that most people can digest. Bruno Mars is a hook master. You may not like that sacchrine pop he does but you can at least remember his songs without effort. In the long run, that makes them effective. She needs an "effective" song. Every artist who is "famous" in the mainstream sense has that. She does not. Her talent, look and style are not at question. She has everything that makes a musical icon. She can sing. She is unique. She can dance. The only thing she is missing is a hit; a REAL hit. Until she writes one, she is not going to register with the mainstream public well.

*
We don't agree on much, but we do here. Monae isn't "so famous" because her songs aren't

popular. But perhaps she doesn't want to be "so famous" - you ever consider that?!

Read the blue highlighted text.

Unholyalliance said:

I know that being a fully dressed black female not selling sex and love definitely makes things harder for her. That being said when they refer to her in magazines they call her "pretty" or comment how great she looks, but RARELY ever mention her singing or her music. I think a lot has to be said for something like that as well. Yet, there are plenty of female singers out there who sound worse so what gives?

This is what I think:

Janelle needs a song with a really good hook . I guess people who claim that they are inspired by James Brown, Stevie Wonder, Prince, MJ, and etc. all forget that when they are citing these giants. It's the reason people such as Madonna, Rihanna, and Taylor Swift can stay on the Billboards and have major hits. All of these people I listed all have great songs with awesome hooks in them. Hell, most of you can shit on Lady Gaga, but hell she has some great songs. Same with Janet Jackson.

Then again, does she need to be famous like that? Groups such as Radiohead and Daft Punk are considered legends and aren't really popstars. Both of them have huge international followings as well.

Another thing I forgot to mention was that these artists all had clear gimmicks that attracted a real demogrphic. I feel that hers needs to be clearer. Like what is she trying to be? Who is she trying to target? Your message is to young black girls? What are you trying to tell them when you are onstage emulating James Brown?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

This what I mean.

[Edited 6/4/13 12:13pm]

rihanna and taylor swift have great songs?? muahhh...give me janelle monae any day

anyway I don't think she wants to be this mega popular girl...I think that to her it matters more make awesome music like she is doing..and yes magazines often call her pretty and focus way too much on her look but these ones are generally fashion magazines ...in music magazines it's not like that.. of course a fashion magazine focus on the style..

Graycap23 said:

BlaqueKnight said:

Janelle's problem in the past has been that she doesn't have a hit. I don't think she tries too hard to be different; she IS different and she just keeps doing what she does. That's cool if you only want to have a small audience of hardcore fans. IMO, Janelle needs a solid song with a strong hook that falls in a standard structure. I don't think that entails dressing provocatively or trying to whore yourself out to your peer group. It just involes try to write something that is you but is in a format that most people can digest. Bruno Mars is a hook master. You may not like that sacchrine pop he does but you can at least remember his songs without effort. In the long run, that makes them effective. She needs an "effective" song. Every artist who is "famous" in the mainstream sense has that. She does not. Her talent, look and style are not at question. She has everything that makes a musical icon. She can sing. She is unique. She can dance. The only thing she is missing is a hit; a REAL hit. Until she writes one, she is not going to register with the mainstream public well.

This nails it, IMHO.

"Janelle doesn't dance around half naked and her brain actually functions." Truth... but neither does Adele. And Adele's "famous." At the same time, Ciara, for example, does dance around half naked and her brain seems... well... limited. And her fame beyond crunk circles has remained equally limited.

It's easy to chalk up commercial success these days to mere T&A, but I think that's a bit too cynical. At the end of the day, a widely celebrated artist (if, in fact, an artist actually wants that celebrity) simply has to offer a body of work a critical mass of people will return to for its visceral appeal. Janelle, in all her innovation, simply hasn't yet delivered that.

The good news is I totally think she's got it in her, if, in fact, she wants the sort of broader recognition we're talking about. She's talented, connected, charismatic. She's got the ingredients.

[Edited 6/4/13 20:24pm]

If she wants to dress like a drag king, let her. But why are others who dress feminine and sexy considered "skanks"? Why the hate?

Lammastide said:

BlaqueKnight said:

Janelle's problem in the past has been that she doesn't have a hit. I don't think she tries too hard to be different; she IS different and she just keeps doing what she does. That's cool if you only want to have a small audience of hardcore fans. IMO, Janelle needs a solid song with a strong hook that falls in a standard structure. I don't think that entails dressing provocatively or trying to whore yourself out to your peer group. It just involes try to write something that is you but is in a format that most people can digest. Bruno Mars is a hook master. You may not like that sacchrine pop he does but you can at least remember his songs without effort. In the long run, that makes them effective. She needs an "effective" song. Every artist who is "famous" in the mainstream sense has that. She does not. Her talent, look and style are not at question. She has everything that makes a musical icon. She can sing. She is unique. She can dance. The only thing she is missing is a hit; a REAL hit. Until she writes one, she is not going to register with the mainstream public well.

This nails it, IMHO.

"Janelle doesn't dance around half naked and her brain actually functions." Truth... but neither does Adele. And Adele's "famous." At the same time, Ciara, for example, does dance around half naked and her brain seems... well... limited. And her fame beyond crunk circles has remained equally limited.

It's easy to chalk up commercial success these days to mere T&A, but I think that's a bit too cynical. At the end of the day, a widely celebrated artist (if, in fact, an artist actually wants that celebrity) simply has to offer a body of work a critical mass of people will return to for its visceral appeal. Janelle, in all her innovation, simply hasn't yet delivered that.

The good news is I totally think she's got it in her, if, in fact, she wants the sort of broader recognition we're talking about. She's talented, connected, charismatic. She's got the ingredients.

[Edited 6/4/13 20:24pm]

adele is yes more famous than janelle but also has a way more commercial sound...janelle's music at least until now ( we have to see for the electric lady) is way more complicated, there is a lot of concept in her music ( a lot) ..she is an artist for the masses but at the same time she isn't...adele is...adele sings love songs ...janelle sings about oppression, female empowerment, injustices of the world, equality of all kinds ( racial, sexual etc)...and at least yes also love...

pld71 said:

If she wants to dress like a drag king, let her. But why are others who dress feminine and sexy considered "skanks"? Why the hate?

because generally in this generation a lot of female acts doesn't only dress feminine with skirts etc...they sing in UNDERWEAR...and they act in videos like pornstars

Call me a jerk but Adele being overweight is pretty much one of the serious reasons she's ADELE now, people all over the world seemed to be having so much trouble listening to Rihanna and Katy Perry, and being sick with they're dancing and stuff.. Adele beside quality voice and music managed to create this idea "I don't dance like them... but i sing love songs that everybody could relate to".. I mean she created a fanbase that start arguing with "Look at Adele, does she dance? is she skinny..?".. I just feel that way anyway,,

What are you talking about?


She is pretty famous.


She chooses not to be mainstream.

So, she is not mainstream famous.


But in her own league she is well known.

Unholyalliance said:

I know that being a fully dressed black female not selling sex and love definitely makes things harder for her. That being said when they refer to her in magazines they call her "pretty" or comment how great she looks, but RARELY ever mention her singing or her music. I think a lot has to be said for something like that as well. Yet, there are plenty of female singers out there who sound worse so what gives?

Welcome in the world of women.


Doesn't matter if she works in music, journalism, politics, science or business.

She gets judged on her looks.

Not her content.

Can't be pretty and beautiful, because that means she is a selfish b*tch and a slut.
Can't be dominant and wear a suit, because than she is trying to hard.
Can't be too intellingent, because male's world will be valued more than hers.


It's not Janelle.

It's male dominated society.

cindymay said:

anyway I don't think she wants to be this mega popular girl...I think that to her it matters more make awesome music like she is doing..and yes magazines often call her pretty and focus way too much on her look but these ones are generally fashion magazines ...in music magazines it's not like that.. of course a fashion magazine focus on the style..

So, is that your official answer to the op question? First let me say, I love this girl. I think she's truly talented. Hell, probably more talented than the majority of the girls already mentioned throughout this thread but I tend to lean more toward what BK has suggested. She's just one hit away from superstardom. Everything else is there. Besides, she doesn't have to sell out to be a success.

dJJ said:

Unholyalliance said:

I know that being a fully dressed black female not selling sex and love definitely makes things harder for her. That being said when they refer to her in magazines they call her "pretty" or comment how great she looks, but RARELY ever mention her singing or her music. I think a lot has to be said for something like that as well. Yet, there are plenty of female singers out there who sound worse so what gives?

Welcome in the world of women.


Doesn't matter if she works in music, journalism, politics, science or business.

She gets judged on her looks.

Not her content.

Can't be pretty and beautiful, because that means she is a selfish b*tch and a slut.
Can't be dominant and wear a suit, because than she is trying to hard.
Can't be too intellingent, because male's world will be valued more than hers.


It's not Janelle.

It's male dominated society.

Thats why I think she represents female empowerment because she tells society, No I can be beautiful with a suit and tie. I dont have to wear underwear or be overly sexual like male society wants. She goes against those ideals and follows her own. NOBODY right now in the game is doing that, NOBODY. People see that she is beautiful but they are not objectifying her because she is not allowing it and does not present herself in that way.

[Edited 6/5/13 7:14am]

cindymay said:

Unholyalliance said:

I know that being a fully dressed black female not selling sex and love definitely makes things harder for her. That being said when they refer to her in magazines they call her "pretty" or comment how great she looks, but RARELY ever mention her singing or her music. I think a lot has to be said for something like that as well. Yet, there are plenty of female singers out there who sound worse so what gives?

This is what I think:

Janelle needs a song with a really good hook . I guess people who claim that they are inspired by James Brown, Stevie Wonder, Prince, MJ, and etc. all forget that when they are citing these giants. It's the reason people such as Madonna, Rihanna, and Taylor Swift can stay on the Billboards and have major hits. All of these people I listed all have great songs with awesome hooks in them. Hell, most of you can shit on Lady Gaga, but hell she has some great songs. Same with Janet Jackson.

Then again, does she need to be famous like that? Groups such as Radiohead and Daft Punk are considered legends and aren't really popstars. Both of them have huge international followings as well.

Another thing I forgot to mention was that these artists all had clear gimmicks that attracted a real demogrphic. I feel that hers needs to be clearer. Like what is she trying to be? Who is she trying to target? Your message is to young black girls? What are you trying to tell them when you are onstage emulating James Brown?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

This what I mean.

[Edited 6/4/13 12:13pm]

rihanna and taylor swift have great songs?? muahhh...give me janelle monae any day

No but they have catchy, memorable pop songs with choruses that get stuck in your head whether you really like them or not. Probably one of the biggest culprits of producing a lot of these hits is Max Martin. This cat makes the most quintessential generic pop songs of today BUT, they're mostly catchy as hell.

*

From Pink's "Please Don't Leave Me" to Kelly Clarkston's "Since You Been Gone" to just about all of Katy Perry's hits were produced by this guy. Throw in production from Dr. Luke, RedOne, Benny Blanco, and you'll have just about have every song covered that's on the radio right now. Sad but true.

mjscarousal said:

dJJ said:

Welcome in the world of women.


Doesn't matter if she works in music, journalism, politics, science or business.

She gets judged on her looks.

Not her content.

Can't be pretty and beautiful, because that means she is a selfish b*tch and a slut.
Can't be dominant and wear a suit, because than she is trying to hard.
Can't be too intellingent, because male's world will be valued more than hers.


It's not Janelle.

It's male dominated society.

Thats why I think she represents female empowerment because she tells society, No I can be beautiful with a suit and tie. I dont have to wear underwear or be overly sexual like male society wants. She goes against those ideals and follows her own. NOBODY right now in the game is doing that, NOBODY. People see that she is beautiful but they are not objectifying her because she is not allowing it and does not present herself in that way.

[Edited 6/5/13 7:14am]

I know what you're saying but I objectify her plenty She can't control how someone may see her. In other words, just because she's not showing a lot of skin or the conventional T&A does not mean one can't still find her sexy, desirable or beautiful.

cindymay said:

Lammastide said:

This nails it, IMHO.

"Janelle doesn't dance around half naked and her brain actually functions." Truth... but neither does Adele. And Adele's "famous." At the same time, Ciara, for example, does dance around half naked and her brain seems... well... limited. And her fame beyond crunk circles has remained equally limited.

It's easy to chalk up commercial success these days to mere T&A, but I think that's a bit too cynical. At the end of the day, a widely celebrated artist (if, in fact, an artist actually wants that celebrity) simply has to offer a body of work a critical mass of people will return to for its visceral appeal. Janelle, in all her innovation, simply hasn't yet delivered that.

The good news is I totally think she's got it in her, if, in fact, she wants the sort of broader recognition we're talking about. She's talented, connected, charismatic. She's got the ingredients.

[Edited 6/4/13 20:24pm]

adele is yes more famous than janelle but also has a way more commercial sound...janelle's music at least until now ( we have to see for the electric lady) is way more complicated, there is a lot of concept in her music ( a lot) ..she is an artist for the masses but at the same time she isn't...adele is...adele sings love songs ...janelle sings about oppression, female empowerment, injustices of the world, equality of all kinds ( racial, sexual etc)...and at least yes also love...

You're correct. And this speaks to my point. Janelle is very much the explorer on an intellectual/aesthetic front. But her stuff simply hasn't (yet) hit folk in the gut, which is key to broad appeal.

Now, again, whether she'd want such a thing is uncertain. Should be interesting to watch her trajectory.

Lammastide said:

cindymay said:

adele is yes more famous than janelle but also has a way more commercial sound...janelle's music at least until now ( we have to see for the electric lady) is way more complicated, there is a lot of concept in her music ( a lot) ..she is an artist for the masses but at the same time she isn't...adele is...adele sings love songs ...janelle sings about oppression, female empowerment, injustices of the world, equality of all kinds ( racial, sexual etc)...and at least yes also love...

You're correct. And this speaks to my point. Janelle is very much the explorer on an intellectual/aesthetic front. But her stuff simply hasn't (yet) hit folk in the gut, which is key to broad appeal.

Now, again, whether she'd want such a thing is uncertain. Should be interesting to watch her trajectory.

Her style is NOT 4 mass consumption and there is nothing wrong with that.

Musicslave said:

mjscarousal said:

Thats why I think she represents female empowerment because she tells society, No I can be beautiful with a suit and tie. I dont have to wear underwear or be overly sexual like male society wants. She goes against those ideals and follows her own. NOBODY right now in the game is doing that, NOBODY. People see that she is beautiful but they are not objectifying her because she is not allowing it and does not present herself in that way.

[Edited 6/5/13 7:14am]

I know what you're saying but I objectify her plenty She can't control how someone may see her. In other words, just because she's not showing a lot of skin or the conventional T&A does not mean one can't still find her sexy, desirable or beautiful.

Your repeating what I have already said. lol

My point was she does not depict herself as a sexual object according to societys standards of how women of her level of attractiveness should depict themselves. Most people when they think of Janelle or talk about her, its always in regard to her "unique style" or "eclectic music" They dont think "sexy" despite her being attractive but thats because of how she presents herself. She wants people main focus to be on her creative style and music.

Graycap23 said:

Lammastide said:

You're correct. And this speaks to my point. Janelle is very much the explorer on an intellectual/aesthetic front. But her stuff simply hasn't (yet) hit folk in the gut, which is key to broad appeal.

Now, again, whether she'd want such a thing is uncertain. Should be interesting to watch her trajectory.

Her style is NOT 4 mass consumption and there is nothing wrong with that.

Neither is her dancing style!

Or her style of not hitting notes!

scriptgirl said:

She's annoying as hell. I love MissCarousel to death, but we will have to part ways here.

Graycap23 said:

Lammastide said:

You're correct. And this speaks to my point. Janelle is very much the explorer on an intellectual/aesthetic front. But her stuff simply hasn't (yet) hit folk in the gut, which is key to broad appeal.

Now, again, whether she'd want such a thing is uncertain. Should be interesting to watch her trajectory.

Her style is NOT 4 mass consumption and there is nothing wrong with that.

Ive just come to the conclusion that people are going to like what they like. It doesnt matter how creative or artistic an artist is, It doesnt matter how mediocre an artists music is and so forth and so forth. People will come up with reasons to like or dislike them.

Janelle is one of the best LIVE female singers/performers out today and people who just want to hate on her... let them. I dont take folks who want to talk about Rihanna, Bieber, Beyonce, Perry all day long but want to trash an artist who strives to be artistic and creative.

mjscarousal said:

Graycap23 said:

Her style is NOT 4 mass consumption and there is nothing wrong with that.

Ive just come to the conclusion that people are going to like what they like.

That is why it is not worth sweating.

Folks are allowed 2 have bad taste.

Graycap23 said:

mjscarousal said:

Ive just come to the conclusion that people are going to like what they like.

That is why it is not worth sweating.

Folks are allowed 2 have bad taste.

A A A A I'm an alien from outer spaaaaace

mjscarousal said:

Graycap23 said:

Her style is NOT 4 mass consumption and there is nothing wrong with that.

Ive just come to the conclusion that people are going to like what they like. It doesnt matter how creative or artistic an artist is, It doesnt matter how mediocre an artists music is and so forth and so forth. People will come up with reasons to like or dislike them.

Janelle is one of the best LIVE female singers/performers out today and people who just want to hate on her... let them. I dont take folks who want to talk about Rihanna, Bieber, Beyonce, Perry all day long but want to trash an artist who strives to be artistic and creative.

I'm not sure that Beyonce and Bieber are bad artists.

They just do what sells good. What's wrong with that?

I do think Beyonce and Rihanna could alsobe ravishing with a little bit more clothes on.

But, on stage they both look great.
In daily life Rihanna seems to have a lot drama going on.
She involves herself in the drama, and her dressing style seems to fulfill her emotional need; to evoke positive sexual responses from men.

Yes, I'd rather wish that females also could make a career with clothes on.

Apparently Rihanna only feels good about herself when men tell her she is sexy. Sadly, she dresses in a way that will evoke male gazes and eager eyes.

Femal musicians and wearing toothfloss as a dress:



MTV bases it's policy for website content on traffic.
And when they put up a pitucre of a barely dressed Rihanna, there will be more traffic to the site.

So, they judge the content on this question:
"would a guy jerk himself off on this picture? "
Anser "Yes" = picture on the site.
Answer "No" = picture not on the site.

Because guys who jerk themselves off on these pictures will visit the site. And generate straffic statistics.

And those statistics are in the management reports.

So, MTV management will decide that Rihanna dressed in toothfloss is good content for the site.

That is how it works.

They don't think beyond silly statistics.

And the teenage girls who go to MTV site as a reference, think they have to act and dress like Rihanna.

I read the book "Living Dolls" by Natasha Walter.

And I highly recommend it to everybody.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to the discussion about how to dress as a female:

I also feel good in a dress. My Muslim friend feels horrible that I show my bare legs.

But I think men should be able to contain themselves. They are not savages that can't stop themselves from preying on women, right?

Men are capable of civilized behaviour, aren't they? If they think of themselves as capable of ruling the world, they should at least have the capacity to treat women as humans and not as sex objects, right?

I don't like it that these discussions always turn toward blaming females for their wardrobe style.

A woman should be wearing clothes that she likes. Being it a short dress, a suit or a niqab.

Why is there never any discussion about how men should not make women their clothing style as an excuse for them?

Why do men decide for women they should wear a floss thread, a suit or a niqab?

[Edited 6/5/13 10:35am]