I am being for real! a lot of the thing's y'all complain about regarding how ''bad'' modern music is a lot of it can be contributed towards Mariah Carey.

She started that fucking rapper with a pop singer guest doing a hookon every song mess... and now it is like half the songs out now have a rapper with some pop star on the hook!

And she has gotten every rapper she can fit in her vag err i mean roster of albums and singles without mercy! i mean she will work with ANY rapper or r&B artist.

She also started that act innocent and then show less clothing and crossover crap as well no no no don't say Madonna cause she was a hoe since Lucky Star and admitted it!

Rihanna and dozens of other pop stars started with the cutsy pop singles then started going towards the more suggested clothesless hits.

She also started that entire remix thing... no no she is not the first to do remixes it was going on since the 80's but she popularized doing a remix for EVERY damn single she released and getting the rapper of the month on it and now we have a million remixes with rappers on radio

Her worst crime is that she made Nick Cannon relevant after that song Gigolo he did with R. Kelly...

I like some of her stuff don't get me wrong but a lot of people on the board seem to love her... yet criticize the hell of modern music when half the shit wrong with is stuff she helped to popularize.

*In before ''But she can actually sing'' comment*

Can't say I disagree. Can't stand to listen to her post-1997 music anymore anyways...

Timmy84 said:

Can't say I disagree. Can't stand to listen to her post-1997 music anymore anyways...

I have only listened to... her debut, Daydream, Butterfly & Glitter all the way through the other albums i heard some tracks and were meh and ok.

I am not saying she is not good of course but she started a lot of trends i mean ALOT of trends we have today that are annoying as shit and just won't die.

And she also works with any producer of the month or year that is hot which i think imo is another trend that caught on... what happened to there being one producer for an album?

In the past 15 years there is like 20-30 fucking producers on one damn album!!!!!! like wtf

Someone take Mariah subway, fill her with bacon and lettuce, put her in the oven and make her a BLT cause she is cooksed and done.

Gunsnhalen said:

Timmy84 said:

Can't say I disagree. Can't stand to listen to her post-1997 music anymore anyways...

I have only listened to... her debut, Daydream, Butterfly & Glitter all the way through the other albums i heard some tracks and were meh and ok.

I am not saying she is not good of course but she started a lot of trends i mean ALOT of trends we have today that are annoying as shit and just won't die.

And she also works with any producer of the month or year that is hot which i think imo is another trend that caught on... what happened to there being one producer for an album?

In the past 15 years there is like 20-30 fucking producers on one damn album!!!!!! like wtf

Someone take Mariah subway, fill her with bacon and lettuce, put her in the oven and make her a BLT cause she is cooksed and done.

I hear she did a track with Miguel off her upcoming album. I just wish she had ONE producer and not 50 like she's done the last few albums. Emancipation was alright but songs like Stuff Like That kept it from being a great album and Fly Like a Bird was too overly dramatic for my taste (same with her version of I Wanna Know What Love Is from the Sparrow album or whatever that was called).

I'm sure Andy will correct you in 3..2...

Terrib3Towel said:

I'm sure Andy will correct you in 3..2...

omg no

Even Andy would agree Whitney didn't touch rappers on her songs for the most part. Mariah though touched everyone within a 1500 mile radius!

Terrib3Towel said:

I'm sure Andy will correct you in 3..2...

"But Whitney started it off with Silver Balls..."

Only 50%?

lazycrockett said:

Only 50%?

I love this thread and it pretty much summarises my gripes with her music. I think what she has accomplished in music is astounding and a feat that should be celebrated like he string of #1 Billboard Pop Singles which I think broke the Beatles record. However, her music is 95% fluff and her prissy barbie doll image is TIRED and has long served its purpose. Your over 40 and you still talk and dress like a teenage girl. She is a great vocalist, but that is ALL she can offer. Her penchant for recording with the flavor of the month for remixes are the stuff of legend. Most of the rappers she has worked with, have all been left and forgotten.

bashraka said:

I love this thread and it pretty much summarises my gripes with her music. I think what she has accomplished in music is astounding and a feat that should be celebrated like he string of #1 Billboard Pop Singles which I think broke the Beatles record. However, her music is 95% fluff and her prissy barbie doll image is TIRED and has long served its purpose. Your over 40 and you still talk and dress like a teenage girl. She is a great vocalist, but that is ALL she can offer. Her penchant for recording with the flavor of the month for remixes are the stuff of legend. Most of the rappers she has worked with, have all been left and forgotten.

No, the Beatles are still number-one with 20, she has 18.

[Edited 5/3/13 17:22pm]

I dig Mariah but I can't stand all the stupid raps, remixes and re-recordings. As far as the whole sex appeal thing goes, people like Rihanna are intentionaly getting dirtier and dirtier. Mariah really didn't have much of a choice in the beginning of her career because of Mottola

Timmy84 said:

bashraka said:

I love this thread and it pretty much summarises my gripes with her music. I think what she has accomplished in music is astounding and a feat that should be celebrated like he string of #1 Billboard Pop Singles which I think broke the Beatles record. However, her music is 95% fluff and her prissy barbie doll image is TIRED and has long served its purpose. Your over 40 and you still talk and dress like a teenage girl. She is a great vocalist, but that is ALL she can offer. Her penchant for recording with the flavor of the month for remixes are the stuff of legend. Most of the rappers she has worked with, have all been left and forgotten.

No, the Beatles are still number-one with 20, she has 18.

[Edited 5/3/13 17:22pm]

Thanks Timmy. I think she will break The Beatles record because Mariah is still relevant to people who listen to new music on a regular basis and she will follow to the letter the advice of her A&R and producer to record with a popular rapper and overload the record with remixes and deluxe editions of albums that sound generic. The Beatles's hit had GREAT songwriting and production touches thanks to George Martin. Name one MC #1 hit even remotely resembles a song that goes beyond her demographic.

bashraka said:

Timmy84 said:

No, the Beatles are still number-one with 20, she has 18.

[Edited 5/3/13 17:22pm]

Thanks Timmy. I think she will break The Beatles record because Mariah is still relevant to people who listen to new music on a regular basis and she will follow to the letter the advice of her A&R and producer to record with a popular rapper and overload the record with remixes and deluxe editions of albums that sound generic. The Beatles's hit had GREAT songwriting and production touches thanks to George Martin. Name one MC #1 hit even remotely resembles a song that goes beyond her demographic.

I don't think I can name one.

Timmy84 said:

bashraka said:

Thanks Timmy. I think she will break The Beatles record because Mariah is still relevant to people who listen to new music on a regular basis and she will follow to the letter the advice of her A&R and producer to record with a popular rapper and overload the record with remixes and deluxe editions of albums that sound generic. The Beatles's hit had GREAT songwriting and production touches thanks to George Martin. Name one MC #1 hit even remotely resembles a song that goes beyond her demographic.

I don't think I can name one.

trying...... errrrr..... uhhhh.......errrrrr....uhhhhhh....errrr

I think it wasa mainly r&b or pop that were the big hits... some say Fantasy is funky and got the funk crowds moving but idk about all that.

I am glad y'all didn't rip my head off

Mariah does have a great voice and was a great force in the 90s and yes i fucks with some of her stuff. But i think she should be called out on this... especially by people who complain about the thing's she helped make popular

Shiiit whatever happened to rappers like escaped, the lox, big noyd, Lord Tariq, Shawanna, Fabolous, Lil Crip, Lil Neez, Cam'ron

Gunsnhalen said:

Timmy84 said:

I don't think I can name one.

trying...... errrrr..... uhhhh.......errrrrr....uhhhhhh....errrr

I think it wasa mainly r&b or pop that were the big hits... some say Fantasy is funky and got the funk crowds moving but idk about all that.

Fantasy is far from "funk". Besides, everyone know the song she sampled from it was the real funky one.

Gunsnhalen said:

I am being for real! a lot of the thing's y'all complain about regarding how ''bad'' modern music is a lot of it can be contributed towards Mariah Carey.

She started that fucking rapper with a pop singer guest doing a hookon every song mess... and now it is like half the songs out now have a rapper with some pop star on the hook!

And she has gotten every rapper she can fit in her vag err i mean roster of albums and singles without mercy! i mean she will work with ANY rapper or r&B artist.

She also started that act innocent and then show less clothing and crossover crap as well no no no don't say Madonna cause she was a hoe since Lucky Star and admitted it!

Rihanna and dozens of other pop stars started with the cutsy pop singles then started going towards the more suggested clothesless hits.

She also started that entire remix thing... no no she is not the first to do remixes it was going on since the 80's but she popularized doing a remix for EVERY damn single she released and getting the rapper of the month on it and now we have a million remixes with rappers on radio

Her worst crime is that she made Nick Cannon relevant after that song Gigolo he did with R. Kelly...

I like some of her stuff don't get me wrong but a lot of people on the board seem to love her... yet criticize the hell of modern music when half the shit wrong with is stuff she helped to popularize.

Well you must have been in a coma on the org for the last several years. Fans of

Mariah here have spoken ad nauseum about her trend of adding the latest fluff rapper on her album. I haven't bought a Mariah album since Mimi and damn if that didn't cd

didn't seem like it had a rapper on every other song. The ballads are what drew me

to the album. I'm actually quite surprised you are acting as though orgers having

criticized the hell out of Mariah for the same formula she's been using since 1995.

I don't know if you can criticize Mariah for the problem with modern music anymore

than you can blame Mary J. Blige because she has been doing it since 1995 too.

Timmy84 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

trying...... errrrr..... uhhhh.......errrrrr....uhhhhhh....errrr

I think it wasa mainly r&b or pop that were the big hits... some say Fantasy is funky and got the funk crowds moving but idk about all that.

Fantasy is far from "funk". Besides, everyone know the song she sampled from it was the real funky one.

Yeah i heard it on the radio the other day and i was turned off by it. I just don't

buy into the lack of creativity of taking someone else's work particularly when all

you did was take the original song in it's original form and just change the lyrics but

we all know that's the formula that the producer P Diddy is known for.

phunkdaddy said:

Gunsnhalen said:

I am being for real! a lot of the thing's y'all complain about regarding how ''bad'' modern music is a lot of it can be contributed towards Mariah Carey.

She started that fucking rapper with a pop singer guest doing a hookon every song mess... and now it is like half the songs out now have a rapper with some pop star on the hook!

And she has gotten every rapper she can fit in her vag err i mean roster of albums and singles without mercy! i mean she will work with ANY rapper or r&B artist.

She also started that act innocent and then show less clothing and crossover crap as well no no no don't say Madonna cause she was a hoe since Lucky Star and admitted it!

Rihanna and dozens of other pop stars started with the cutsy pop singles then started going towards the more suggested clothesless hits.

She also started that entire remix thing... no no she is not the first to do remixes it was going on since the 80's but she popularized doing a remix for EVERY damn single she released and getting the rapper of the month on it and now we have a million remixes with rappers on radio

Her worst crime is that she made Nick Cannon relevant after that song Gigolo he did with R. Kelly...

I like some of her stuff don't get me wrong but a lot of people on the board seem to love her... yet criticize the hell of modern music when half the shit wrong with is stuff she helped to popularize.

Well you must have been in a coma on the org for the last several years. Fans of

Mariah here have spoken ad nauseum about her trend of adding the latest fluff rapper on her album. I haven't bought a Mariah album since Mimi and damn if that didn't cd

didn't seem like it had a rapper on every other song. The ballads are what drew me

to the album. I'm actually quite surprised you are acting as though orgers having

criticized the hell out of Mariah for the same formula she's been using since 1995.

I don't know if you can criticize Mariah for the problem with modern music anymore

than you can blame Mary J. Blige because she has been doing it since 1995 too.

Maybe orgers i honestly don't go into many Mariah threads so this could be true

But the thing is Mariah is STILL doing it like crazy i mean Miguel got big and now she wants to work with him. Same with Rick Ross and Young Jeezy...

She has been doing since the 90s and i made this thread after looking at a slideshow where she basically was working a new rapper every nearly in the 00s and she has an entire roster of them for her new album i heard.

^ cause bitch got some Sony money and shit. When a women gets away from the MAFIA n lives, shes gonna live a nice weathly life.

Mariah is a terrific vocalist,but she goes overboard with the hip-hop posturing.Her albums feature guest rappers on every other song and it's become tired and boring.She used to do infectious, melodic songs like "Dreamlover" and "Can't Let Go".....great tunes that didn't feature rappers.Nowadays,she does alot of tuneless,hip-hop crap like that recent "Triumphant" song.Hopefully,the failure of that track will convince her to switch gears and get back to basics.

Gunsnhalen said:

I am glad y'all didn't rip my head off

Mariah does have a great voice and was a great force in the 90s and yes i fucks with some of her stuff. But i think she should be called out on this... especially by people who complain about the thing's she helped make popular

Shiiit whatever happened to rappers like escaped, the lox, big noyd, Lord Tariq, Shawanna, Fabolous, Lil Crip, Lil Neez, Cam'ron

I'm about to rip your head off! No, just kidding. I've been a huge fan of Mariah since she came out, yet most of your observations are spot on. However, she wasn't realy the first pop artist to have a rapper on her singles (just look at Jody Watley, Mary J. Blige, and En Vogue), but she made it safe for every other aspiring diva. When the Fantasy remix came out, it was considered really bold at the time because she had such a wholesome (whitewashed) image, and ODB was considered to be one of the more hardcore rappers out. She kept doing it because it landed her a bunch of number one singles and sold millions of records. And because a lot of current female pop artists look up to her, they followed her blueprint pretty much to the letter.

As for the remixes, I think you're being a little harsh, because she has some really awesome club tracks that still soung amazing to this day. And many of her remixes sound thematically different from her originals, so in essence she practically recorded a new song on each remix.

But like Timmy84 said, most of her post-Butterfly work is forgettable, save Emancipation of Mimi, and I rarely listen to any of that these days. I just wish she would just be confident enough to record an album of classic R&B and/or jazz influenced songs and not chase the latest hot producer, singer or rapper.

I think she's done some great hip-hop collabs a bunch that are pointless. As far as her actual records go, she's really minimized the guest rappers, opting to save them for remixes. Mimi and E=MC2 each only had 3/14 main album tracks with a guest rapper, unless you include JD's little background blurbs. Memoirs didn't have any. Rainbow and Glitter seemed to have the most.

That last single of hers that was basically a guest rappers track feat. MC on the chorus and was a huge failure, which may have something to do with her not having any rap on the new album (says Roger Friedman).

I agree that you can't really fault Mariah for doing rap collabs as she wasn't the first, but she sure repeated the fuck out of it when she started doing it.

As a Mariah fan from day one, actually even earlier, i remember getting a white label promo with 4 tracks on it, and it was Vision of Love and a few others from the first album, no picture, just a bio sheet that was it. But it think we are all searching for an ARTIST type that just is not there. And i dont say that to downplay her career, i say that because it is true. Great singer, writes her stuff, but lets be real that she jumped on alot of FADS, the whole rapper collabo wasnt her idea, but when it blew up in the 90's she milked it every way possible, and now seeing a single with "Miguel" everyone is like, wow this is what she needs, but to me she is just adjusting her thinking, one fad dies and another starts, im sure getting Bruno Mars will be next, it seems to be she will get who ever is big at the time to work with, that to me is not really artistry or at least the artist we think she is.

To sum up her thinking i will quote someone at a label when they got an artists album complete delivered to them. "Gee this is a great album, amazing writing and development, but we dont hear a single, so we are gonna take one song and have Lil Wayne do a verse and release that instead, dont worry he already did his part you dont even have to meet with him" and that sums up the collabo that never is a collabo.

Gunsnhalen said:

I am being for real! a lot of the thing's y'all complain about regarding how ''bad'' modern music is a lot of it can be contributed towards Mariah Carey.

She started that fucking rapper with a pop singer guest doing a hookon every song mess... and now it is like half the songs out now have a rapper with some pop star on the hook!

THAT^ a damn lie. Excuse you, but Chaka Khan featuring Mellie Mel, Jody Watley featuring Eric B & Rakim, Rick James featuring Roxanne Shante, Michael Jackson and/or Janet Jackson featuring Heavy D, and too many other BEFORE Mariah did it.

.

And beside, I blame Quincy Jones, Dr.Dre AND Sean "Puffy" Combs for going too far with the "featuring" gimmick.

[Edited 5/4/13 9:40am]

Timmy84 said:

Terrib3Towel said:

I'm sure Andy will correct you in 3..2...

"But Whitney started it off with Silver Balls..."

......and Mariah continued it no thanks to Tommy "The Devil" Mottola!

TonyVanDam said:

Gunsnhalen said:

I am being for real! a lot of the thing's y'all complain about regarding how ''bad'' modern music is a lot of it can be contributed towards Mariah Carey.

She started that fucking rapper with a pop singer guest doing a hookon every song mess... and now it is like half the songs out now have a rapper with some pop star on the hook!

THAT^ a damn lie. Excuse you, but Chaka Khan featuring Mellie Mel, Jody Watley featuring Eric B & Rakim, Rick James featuring Roxanne Shante, Michael Jackson and/or Janet Jackson featuring Heavy D, and too many others were guest starring rappers BEFORE Mariah did it.

I thought of Jody Watley and Rakim too actually and hearing that one getting credited for the first r&b/hip hop collab though Chaka's I Feel For You came out years before

TonyVanDam said:

Gunsnhalen said:

I am being for real! a lot of the thing's y'all complain about regarding how ''bad'' modern music is a lot of it can be contributed towards Mariah Carey.

She started that fucking rapper with a pop singer guest doing a hookon every song mess... and now it is like half the songs out now have a rapper with some pop star on the hook!

THAT^ a damn lie. Excuse you, but Chaka Khan featuring Mellie Mel, Jody Watley featuring Eric B & Rakim, Rick James featuring Roxanne Shante, Michael Jackson and/or Janet Jackson featuring Heavy D, and too many other BEFORE Mariah did it.

.

And beside, I blame Quincy Jones, Dr.Dre AND Sean "Puffy" Combs for going too far with the "featuring" gimmick.

[Edited 5/4/13 9:40am]

Calm your illuminati man tits no need to kcool eye roll me

But they may have done it but she did with every fruit of the month rapper and on every remix so why Jody & Chaka might have been the first Mariah made it what it is today.