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Reply #90 posted 03/22/13 6:46am

duccichucka

mjscarousal said:

I never said that you did call him a genius but the fact that the media calls Timberlake a genius is important to this conversation because that is why his talent and music gets questioned and criticized. His material and abilities does not reflect a genius level.

No. The fact that a media outlet called JT a genius (that word has lost its original meaning

in regards to describing artistic merit/abilities/talent anyways) has no bearing on our

conversation. My first response in this thread was that JT is the truth and that I like him and

have no problem with the claim being that he's the biggest male pop star of this generation,

whereby you proclaimed:

Ive realize now why this site is so shitty now and thats because the people here dont know a damn thing about music

...and I just wanted to see where your head was at in order to post something so offensive

by tacitly stating that you, on the other hand, know plenty about music; you know enough to

know that liking JT means that one can't possibly know a damn thing about music. But I

think I've shown how mistaken you were. You must admit that it is possible that this site is

shitty, (which is confusing coming from one who seems to post here often and regularly)

but it may have nothing to do with those who like JT; and that liking JT may not be indicative

of that person's musical knowledge, right?

I read over the post where I called you stupid and that was because I thought you were calling posters stupid for criticizing JT now if I read it wrong my bad for calling you stupid.

Um, what do you mean "if" you read it wrong? You fucken read it wrong and called me

stupid in the process!

No I am not in the studio with JT and his producers

Aha! So you admit that when you state:

JT who doesnt do anything and relies on his producers to do everything and come up with song arrangements, melodies and lyrics?

...that there is a slight chance that you may not know what you're talking about, right?

Are there other possible examples where you may not know what you are talking about

then?

but I wasnt in the studio with Sly Family Stone, Quincy and James Brown and I know they wrote their melodies and music. You dont HAVE to be in the studio to know how certain singers construct their songs and if they dont. I am not claiming to be an expert. I am just simply giving my opinion.

So how do you know? From this point, I think I've enough perspicuity to realize that you are

not an expert, and just giving us "opinions" but really, you come across as someone who thinks

her opinion is more estimable and credible than others. So yeah - how do you know how singers

construct their songs if you are not an expert and not in the studio when record production

and recording takes place?

please stop talking to me like I am a child.

I am? Or am I being ironic and trying to prove a point that posting styles contain implicit

attitudes that can come across as offensive, disrespectful and condescending to others who

just want to talk about music they like without fear of being attacked and remonstrated for

having a particular taste you disapprove of? The way you came at me was out of pocket

and kinda lame, seeing that you are now admitting that you are no expert and just have an

opinion, which is really just based upon how you feel and not a set of facts.

There is no universal criteria for talent.

You sure about that?

You dont need to have talent to thrive in todays POP music industry.

Give us an example.

The music industry is very different from how it was in the 60s, 70s, 80s etc.

I totally agree.

So when you have a small pool of people who dont have much talent people are going to exploit any little talent someone has. Which is why acts like Justin and Beyonce are as big as they are if this was the 80s those artists would not even exist.

This statement requires some support. You're gonna have to prove that the talent that is

expressed today is lesser than the talent that was expressed yesterday.

I am simply arguing that despite what the media markets, the industry is MUCH bigger than the pop world and unfornately those non pop artists will never get the exposure they deserve because of the politics of how the industry works today.

I agree. But inchoately, this has been true for pop music. I don't see why you're so upset

with JT getting mad props while a serious jazz musician toils in obscurity; that's the way of

the world. But I agree with you.

You cant really measure talent specifically but I guess its based off the listener and what music and talents they have been exposed to.

Aha! So if you can't really meausure talent, then why are you measuring the talent of JT?

And why are you accosting those of us who admire JT for doing so?

I was fortunate to be exposed to alot of older artists growing up and other singers besides what was played on the radio. So.. I have a pretty broad exposure of different singing talent and dance talent but not everybody has that.

Guess what? Me too! And yet, I think JT is a pretty awesome dude. The two, liking JT's music

and having a varied, diverse and discrete musical taste, are not mutually exclusive.

There is no question about it... he is overrated and just because he makes acceptable music does not change that.

I don't care for his "rating." I don't care what critics say about my favorite artists. JT is not

one of them, but I'll be damned if I'm going to be criticized inanely for liking anybody by

someone who righteously thinks their taste in music is somehow better than mine!

Singers like him are suppose to make descent music. He has a million dollar contract and is on a million dollar label. There is no excuse for him not to make descent music or go beyond descent but since trash and garbage is accepted today... Descent is treated like a Bob Dylan album.

The word is "decent," not "descent." They have two different meanings. Look, JT is making

pop music; he's not a jazz musician. I accept him for what he is - a pop entertainer. And

what is this normative claim you're making? Singers like him are supposed to make decent

music? Says who? You? Where is this male pop star rule located at? Who authored it?

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Reply #91 posted 03/22/13 7:02am

EmancipationLo
ver

avatar

The biggest male pop star of his generation? Yes, maybe.

A great musician? No!

prince
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Reply #92 posted 03/22/13 10:16am

tangerine7

novabrkr said: tangerine7 said: The thing is, is that this whole image he has for this release is so very calculated, to the point that it has no originality, no rawness, atleast not to me, because I've see every artists you can pick out of the images he plays out, black & white artists. Perhaps the new generation as stated in the topic title is indeed, the only people who could fall for this. Which is sad to me because it shows just how much the music here in The States has turned so very plastic, souless and played out. The person writting this, must be very young to state some of the things said.Artists I see being projected and imitated, Overall image, but the quality dosen't measure up to these artists at all.Michael Jackson, Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley, Frank Sinatra, Johnny Cash, Sammy Davis Jr., Tony Bennett, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, James Dean, Dean Martin - just to name a few.You could even say some flavor of Prince, (later Bowie)David Bowie,Sting & so on.Cuddles said: hear! hear! lazycrockett said:All Hail The KING of Pop!!!!! [Edited 3/21/13 21:20pm] [Edited 3/21/13 21:21pm] [Edited 3/21/13 21:50pm] To be fair, if you really need to mention so many names in order to describe what he's doing then he really must be doing something original. I could agree with points like these if there would be only 2-3 names mentioned, but he's clearly not just trying to ride on something his biggest idol (MJ ?) came up with. but the quality dosen't measure up to these artists at all. is that this whole image he has for this release is so very calculated, to the point that it has no originality, no rawness NO. he don't measure up to those. period.

[Edited 3/22/13 10:19am]

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Reply #93 posted 03/22/13 2:54pm

GoldDolphin

avatar

duccichucka said:



GoldDolphin said:




duccichucka said:




Can you explain to me what "fake as hell" means and how Justin Timberlake is


consistently throughout his day, "fake as hell" and how that contributes to his music?


Can you then, for the sake of illumination, provide us with a male pop star of this


generation who is not "fake"?



Can you also explain why he's an average singer? This requires you explaining to us what


qualifies as "good" singing and what qualifies as "bad" singing. Please provide examples that


highlight both features of singing, just for the sake, again, of illumination. And can you give us the


rundown on what passes as quality dancing and why it is that Justin Timberlake fails


to meet those standards?



And finally, can you think of any other massive male pop star who had a career as a child singer/


entertainer; whose musical efforts were considered "meh" and "blah" before he finally


hooked up with certain estimable music producers who were just as integral to assisting


him in producing what is considered today as seminal music? I'll give you a hint:


His name rhymes with Schmichael Schmackson.



I'm looking forward to your response!



wink






When I say he is fake as hell, I'm basing it on my perspective on fake, which is basically that his personality portrayed in the media isnt really who he is. This funny joker personality he tries to pull off doesn't work. While it doesn't contribute to his music, it deals with his image which in fact is part of an artists job. This is the same person who said he was going to quit doing music to become an actor and that he was done with music since he had done everything he could...



Well, I'm a music student and again this is the way I think, but since you want to know my opinion, I don't personally hear anything special in his voice. He is an average singer because his vocal timbre isn't really unique and there are other singers who have the same quality and color like his, he also strains his vocals quite often which makes it sound quite nasal. There's also no true passion in his vocals, like other singers but that's OK, it's more about personal preference. (I have to say that I do like listening to Justins music, but I just think he is overhyped!)



His dancing isn't great at all and he doesn't have the grace of a great dancer, nor is he innovative since most of his dance moves are borrowed from other great dancers (that's OK though, if you can pull it off)... I don't want to go in further on his dancing, since I haven't seen much of that lately, but looking back at his NSYNC days and early 00s dance moves, he was just another in the bunch, he didn't dance or move like Omarion(who btw isnt the best dancer either but to compare to another dancer in mainstream music).



To even compare Justin (if that's what you are doing) to the great king of pop, Michael Jackson (admired for his dancing by James Brown, Fred Astaire, Sammy Davis Jr etc) and for his vocal abilities (admired & respected by most Motown singers, 1000s of mainstream artists, Opera singers, Andrew LLoyd Webber, musical artists etc) is not fair at all to poor Justin lol. MJ's career wasn't considered "meh" or "blah" by anyone in the late 70s and there are a lot of news articles that called him "the prince of pop" before he even hooked up with Quincy. The group MJ was in (The Jacksons) were competing with other acts like Earth, Wind & Fire, The Commodors among others, so I dont think MJ was seen as "meh" at all...



wink







When I say he is fake as hell, I'm basing it on my perspective on fake, which is basically that his personality portrayed in the media isnt really who he is.




Who is Justin Timberlake really? You know him intimately? And this facade that you claim


he's adopting in an effort to hide his true personality - you think it detracts from his music?


How so? Why does he have to show his "true colors" in order to be taken seriously as a


musician? I don't see the connect. Beethoven and Prince were/are complete assholes - yet


they both made/make great music. If I find out that my favorite songwriter at the moment,


Van Hunt, is "faking it" for the sake of popularity, I wouldn't care at all. I'm only interested in


his music, not his personal life. But that's just me!





Well, I'm a music student




I study jazz piano and classical composition - so me too! Finally! I can have a conversation


about music in this thread with someone who knows what they are talking about!





I don't personally hear anything special in his voice. He is an average singer because his vocal timbre isn't really unique and there are other singers who have the same quality and color like his, he also strains his vocals quite often which makes it sound quite nasal. There's also no true passion in his vocals, like other singers but that's OK, it's more about personal preference.




I agree - Timberlake does have a nasally quality to his voice. And yeah, I guess it can certainly


be a bit distracting. Sometimes I think Michael Jackson's vocal quivering, hiccups and neologisms,


such as "cha-mon!", are a bit distracting too. But as long as you realize that singers are blessed


with timbre that you either prefer or don't, that's cool!





His dancing isn't great at all and he doesn't have the grace of a great dancer, nor is he innovative since most of his dance moves are borrowed from other great dancers





What constitutes as great dancing? What is it about Timberlake's dancing that allows you to


think it's not innovative or great? You must have a reason for saying these things; you must


have an example of someone who dances great and is a great innovative dancer and therefore,


a qualified big male pop star of a particular generation, right?!



People tend to forget that Off The Wall was not Michael Jackson's debut album. The solo


albums he had leading up to it were not as highly esteemed as what followed after OtW.


People tend to forget that the Michael Jackson who set the world afire with OfW, Thriller,


Bad and Dangerous, was just as much as a product that was resultant of innovative and


sound producing (Quincy Jones, Rod Temperton, Teddy Riley) that Justin Timberlake is!



So no - I'm not comparing the talents, legacy and music of Justin Timberlake to Michael


Jackson. I'm simply stating that:



1. Most of y'all who have great and intense dislike for JT cannot articulate why you do have


such a great and intense dislike for JT other than stating "It's my opinion! It's my preference!"


This argument is just as valid as stating "I like Justin Timberlake - it's my opinion! It's my


preference!"



2. Michael Jackson's work with Quincy Jones, Rod Temperton, and Teddy Riley is just as integral


to his music as is Justin Timberlake's work with Timbaland and the Neptunes. On his own, MJ


is entirely incapable of producing Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad and Dangerous. The same can be


said for Timberlake or Timberfake or whatever it is you haters are calling him these days!



The problem I'm having with this thread and the other Justin Timberlake threads in this


forum is that there are a handful of "taste makers" who believe they have been stricken


with the task of opining as to what is to pass for quality music here; and if you are in


disagreement with them, somehow you're stupid or you have some sadistic penchant for


being the butt of jokes and I just think that's silly! I think being made fun of, or


being castigated for liking a musician, is just so lame. But I think I understand the vitriol for


those of you who hate him!





I'll reply to this as soon as I have time lol As you know studying music is quite time consuming, I'm having to listen to a lot of different works by Wagner, Puccini and Verdi... Plus a lot more but yeah...
When the power of love overcomes the love of power,the world will know peace -Jimi Hendrix
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Reply #94 posted 03/22/13 7:03pm

mjscarousal

duccichucka

No. The fact that a media outlet called JT a genius (that word has lost its original meaning

in regards to describing artistic merit/abilities/talent anyways) has no bearing on our

conversation.

How so?

I think it has everything to do with this conversation because it is the reason why most people are bashing him here (Which you said earlier you did not understand....well that is why he is getting bashed). Posters are constantly posting reviews and publications that argue that JT is a genius and a pretentious artist which he isnt.

Reading the bolded portion of your post lets me know that you understand that calling him a genius is BULLSHIT so I am not sure why you do not get the Justin hate and I am not sure why you think the media calling JT a genius has nothing to do with this conversation hmmm

Its actually the whole reason why we are having this conversation lol

Um, what do you mean "if" you read it wrong? You fucken read it wrong and called me

stupid in the process!

Okay... I know that now... which is why I acknowledge that I did. whofarted

Aha! So you admit that when you state:

...that there is a slight chance that you may not know what you're talking about, right?

Are there other possible examples where you may not know what you are talking about

then?

Oh please, I never claimed that I was a music expert.

With that being said,

You dont necessarily have to be in the studio with an artist to know their music making process...PERIOD.

So how do you know? From this point, I think I've enough perspicuity to realize that you are

not an expert, and just giving us "opinions" but really, you come across as someone who thinks

her opinion is more estimable and credible than others.

Where did I write that I was an expert? lol

Saying Nobody here knows a damn thing about music does not mean I am calling myself an expert. Its an opinion.

Chill, and stop overanalyzing peoples posts which you do ALOT.

So yeah - how do you know how singers

construct their songs if you are not an expert and not in the studio when record production

and recording takes place?

Why dont you ask yourself the same question and everyone else who comes to music message boards. Most people who express opinions on music have never been in the studio with the artists that they have their opinions on and you dont HAVE to be in order to have an opinion because that is all it is.

Granted, your opinion should be backed by facts.

So are you saying people are required to be in the same studio of artists that they express an opinion on?

That doesnt make sense.

I dont have to be in the studio with Stevie Wonder to know that he writes and composes his own music. Now as far as other technical things such as specific instruments his plays....MAYBE but to know a general fact that he writes and composes his own music I dont have to be.

I am? Or am I being ironic and trying to prove a point that posting styles contain implicit

attitudes that can come across as offensive, disrespectful and condescending to others who

just want to talk about music they like without fear of being attacked and remonstrated for

having a particular taste you disapprove of? The way you came at me was out of pocket

and kinda lame, seeing that you are now admitting that you are no expert and just have an

opinion, which is really just based upon how you feel and not a set of facts.

Yes you are. You think just because your a musician that your opinion is more superior. I have never on this board claim to be a music expert or anything of the sort but that doesnt make my opinion less credible. NOBODY on this site is a music expert and everyone has room to learn for eachother.

You were replying in every JT thread asking why people were criticizing him as if everyone on the board HAS to like him and his new album. lol You do realize people are entitled to their opinions?? Just because you like something doesnt mean everyone else has to.

I did not come at you any kind of way. You asked a question... so I just simply answered it.

I agree. But inchoately, this has been true for pop music. I don't see why you're so upset

with JT getting mad props while a serious jazz musician toils in obscurity; that's the way of

the world. But I agree with you.

I am not upset. I already said that he makes okay music.

I just think calling him a genius is bullshit.

Do you understand that? lol

You do realize that there are well known singers that are underrated as well? I was not necessarily talking about obscure artists. We have artists that play on R&B radio that have never won a grammy.

Aha! So if you can't really meausure talent, then why are you measuring the talent of JT?

And why are you accosting those of us who admire JT for doing so?

If you also read the rest of my post I said that it depends on what the listener has been exposed to. Ive been exposed to a variety of talents that are more exceptional than JT.

You can not measure talent on a point system if that is what you are asking lol but if a music listener has been listening to Marvin Gaye and looking at Tina Turner all there life and someone tells them that JT is the best singer and entertainer than there going to disagree with that.

Guess what? Me too! And yet, I think JT is a pretty awesome dude. The two, liking JT's music

and having a varied, diverse and discrete musical taste, are not mutually exclusive.

Guess what... ME and you are two DIFFERENT people. I am entitled to MY opinion just like you are.

I don't care for his "rating." I don't care what critics say about my favorite artists. JT is not

one of them, but I'll be damned if I'm going to be criticized inanely for liking anybody by

someone who righteously thinks their taste in music is somehow better than mine!

I dont care about that stuff either but I just think what the critics have to say about Justin is important to this conversation because that is why he is being constructively criticized.

You really need to calm down, its not that serious lol

The word is "decent," not "descent." They have two different meanings. Look, JT is making

pop music; he's not a jazz musician. I accept him for what he is - a pop entertainer. And

what is this normative claim you're making? Singers like him are supposed to make decent

music? Says who? You? Where is this male pop star rule located at? Who authored it?

So are you saying that since JT is a pop singer he can not be criticized?

Listen, this is a music site and peoples opinions on music are not always going to be peaches and creme.

I dont know why you feel people can not contructively criticize artists. If people have mature intelligent reasoning behind why they feel the way they feel then you should not be attacking people because of there opinion.

JT could be the musical director of Sesame Street. If I dont particularly care for the song or artist that I am going to say it!

If people are calling him a genius than he should be making genius music or close to it.

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Reply #95 posted 03/22/13 7:14pm

CynicKill

The elevation continues!

http://www.theatlantic.co...jr/274251/

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Reply #96 posted 03/22/13 7:21pm

lazycrockett

avatar

^That's gonna make the mj stans go ballistic. biggrin

The Most Important Thing In Life Is Sincerity....Once You Can Fake That, You Can Fake Anything.
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Reply #97 posted 03/22/13 7:23pm

CynicKill

lazycrockett said:

^That's gonna make the mj stans go ballistic. biggrin

No hate intended but those lovable MJ fans were born ballistic!

tease

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Reply #98 posted 03/22/13 7:26pm

lazycrockett

avatar

I dont know that much bout Sammy Davis Jr, I just remember the old kinda sickly one eyed SDJ, but I do agree with the song and dance archtype the writer is comparing him to. I enjoy JT when hes on SNL more than his music, this being the first disc that I've every listened to by him.

Overall I agree with the article.

The Most Important Thing In Life Is Sincerity....Once You Can Fake That, You Can Fake Anything.
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Reply #99 posted 03/22/13 7:27pm

Cuddles

avatar

Glance at the iconography around his new album The 20/20 Experience, out this week, and you might think Justin Timberlake is intimating Frank Sinatra.

Not musically, of course. Sinatra was a jazz singer, while Timberlake is a pop star. His career is built on blue-eyed funk and soul with a 21st-century sheen. Stylistically, though, with his retro tuxedos and big-band sets, it would be easy to think that Justin is trying to be Frank.

He's not. The more accurate comparison is to another Rat Packer: Sammy Davis Jr. That's what's so unusual and refreshing about Timberlake's career. His rise represents the return of a long-lost showbiz archetype: the song-and-dance man.

A tradition that was born in vaudeville and spread to nightclubs and Broadway before being drowned by self-parody in the lounges of Las Vegas, song-and-dance men were the great, all-around entertainers of the 20th century. From Bill "Bojangles" Robinson and George M. Cohan, to Fred Astaire and Anthony Newley, they could sing, dance, act, tell jokes, do impressions, write songs, and deftly work a crowd as a bandleader and MC. For the first time since Sammy Davis—or maybe Bobby Darin—we have in Timberlake a superstar who can truly do it all.

More
timberlake sxsw 700.jpg
Hampton Stevens

Glance at the iconography around his new album The 20/20 Experience, out this week, and you might think Justin Timberlake is intimating Frank Sinatra.

Not musically, of course. Sinatra was a jazz singer, while Timberlake is a pop star. His career is built on blue-eyed funk and soul with a 21st-century sheen. Stylistically, though, with his retro tuxedos and big-band sets, it would be easy to think that Justin is trying to be Frank.

He's not. The more accurate comparison is to another Rat Packer: Sammy Davis Jr. That's what's so unusual and refreshing about Timberlake's career. His rise represents the return of a long-lost showbiz archetype: the song-and-dance man.

A tradition that was born in vaudeville and spread to nightclubs and Broadway before being drowned by self-parody in the lounges of Las Vegas, song-and-dance men were the great, all-around entertainers of the 20th century. From Bill "Bojangles" Robinson and George M. Cohan, to Fred Astaire and Anthony Newley, they could sing, dance, act, tell jokes, do impressions, write songs, and deftly work a crowd as a bandleader and MC. For the first time since Sammy Davis—or maybe Bobby Darin—we have in Timberlake a superstar who can truly do it all.

Saturday night I saw him perform in what should not have been the pop star's element. At the supposedly indie-oriented South by Southwest music festival in Austin, Texas, Timberlake's Myspace Secret Show was the hottest ticket in town. The show was even hotter. Wearing a novelty tux t-shirt version of "black tie for no reason," Timberlake was the consummate showman: jumping with the beat, high-fiving, fist-pumping, calling for the audience to sing with him, then casually cursing, joking, and toasting the crowd with Guinness after midnight when St. Patrick's Day had begun. The performance, for just a few hundred people in a steamy club, was marked by old showbiz tropes. Like when he called "Step with me, Austin!" during "Pusher Love Girl," a Prince-like ode to addictive passion, one of the sprawling, ambitious, shimmering, but decidedly quirky new songs on The 20/20 Experience. The same vibe shows up on "That Girl" with its slightly cheesy, fake-nightclub intro of JT "all the way from Memphis, Tennessee." That's not new for the singer, either. "Senorita," from his first solo record Justified, opens with a similar intro schtick, and includes a middle break with an old school, alternating male/female call-and-response straight off the chitlin circuit.

One hallmark of the song-and-dance man is versatility. Timberlake may not be the best singer and dancer on earth, but he's very, very good at both of them. He also drips with charisma. More crucially, like Sammy and like all the great song-and-dance men before him, Justin moves freely between one form of entertainment and the another, with no part of his appeal seeming like that of a dilettante or novelty act.

Show business, after all, is filled with performers who can sing and dance. But they aren't in the same category as Timberlake. Someone like Hugh Jackman comes to mind. He's a Broadway actor, an accomplished singer, and a huge Hollywood star. Yet Jackman will never mount a solo concert tour, and the dancing/joking side of him remains something he busts out only at occasional awards-show hosting gigs—it's not the centerpiece of what he does. He's more actor than all-around entertainer.

For that matter, Sinatra could sing and dance, and certainly had charisma to burn. Yet Frank wasn't truly a song-and-dance man. That's because he took himself too seriously as an artist. Therein lies the biggest difference between a Sinatra-type and a Sammy type: comedy. The song-and-dance man dates to the prewar era, before entertainment was considered art. Being plain-old funny was a huge part of the gig.

Sinatra wasn't funny. Sure, he sometimes showed a sense of humor. But he wasn't a natural comic. And, as an artist, he was always more interested in eliciting wistfulness than he was in getting laughs. Not Sammy Davis Jr. He could be serious and elicit pathos, of course. But he was also hysterical, and could have a crowd roaring with him as easily as any standup comic. He could do wry deadpan as in the original Ocean's 11 or raw slapstick like in Cannonball Run.

The biggest difference between a Sinatra-type and a Sammy type: comedy. And Timberlake has shown himself to be hilarious.

The same is true of Timberlake. He can be dramatic in song or on screen. Yet he's also uproariously funny. His work on SNL is some of the best in the epic history of that show. In one moment he can appear as a giant hunk of tofu singing the praises of Veganville. The next, back in his now-signature reimagined Rat Pack black tie, he will passionately croon the lush ballad "Mirrors," 20/20's melodic ode to—and lyrical rebuttal of—Michael Jackson's gorgeously narcissistic "Man in the Mirror." The ability to express such a full range of emotion, and to transition so quickly and seamlessly between them is dazzlingly rare. Of all Timberlake's contemporaries, maybe only Jamie Foxx has the same combination of musical talent, comedic chops, and raw charisma—and he seems to be devoting more and more of his career to dramatic acting roles.

There's one more reason Timberlake's can't be a new Sinatra. Somebody else already has the gig. If anyone in pop culture has Chairman-of-the-Board-like pull, it's Timberlake's "Suit and Tie" collaborator Jay-Z. Jay-Z is the one, like Frank and his Rat Pack, who makes everyone around him more famous. Jay-Z is the one, also like Sinatra, who grew up tough and poor, and so his success speaks the aspiration at the core of the American Dream in a way that white, middle-class Justin Timberlake never can. For Hova, donning the suit and tie isn't about playing into a showbiz tradition. It's a symbol of hisGatsby-ish made-in-America success. There's a seriousness about him to which Timberlake can't even aspire.

The nice part is that he doesn't aspire to it. Timberlake is a showbiz kid. Much like Sammy Davis, a child star as a vaudevillian, Justin came up through the Mickey Mouse Club and the boy band n 'N Sync. He is, at heart, a pure entertainer. His new album may be full of multipart, eight-minute jams, but they're still works of entertainment—all danceable rhythms, hummable hooks, and lyrics about making love on the moon.

That's good. At the moment, we have glut of seriousness, with even teen pop stars feeling compelled to write anthems about saving the world. That's why Timberlake's resurrection of the ol' song-and-dance man is as refreshing as it is impressive. We need more performers who know that simply being entertaining, sharing the sheer joy of movement, laughter, and music is itself a noble calling. In other words, we need fewer people who want to be Frank and more, like Justin Timberlake, who want to be Sammy.

[Edited 3/22/13 19:28pm]

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Reply #100 posted 03/22/13 7:54pm

BrazilianOnRas
pberryBeret

Oh come on! There's Miguel, Cee Lo, André 3000 (who doesnt appear much these days, but whenever he comes as a feat, its awesome), Pharrell`s been consistent over the years though his peak was 99-05, Janelle Monáe, Esperanza Spalding. Bowie, Kate Bush and Prince are all still awesome. There are so much people making so much higher quality music than JT. I dont see why he's being sooooo overrated.

-Wtv u heard bout me is true,I change the rules n do what I wanna do.[Im n love w God,He's the only way - NOT!]We know we gotta die some day,so Im gon have fun evr MF night!Im gon 2 another life.How bout u?
-Im wit u...Ur so cool, evrtg u do is SUCCESS.
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Reply #101 posted 03/22/13 7:57pm

CynicKill

Esperanza Spalding?

Strike one: Female

Strike two: Black

Strike three: Jazz

She'll never be trumpeted the way Justin is.

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Reply #102 posted 03/22/13 7:58pm

Cuddles

avatar

BrazilianOnRaspberryBeret said:

Oh come on! There's Miguel, Cee Lo, André 3000 (who doesnt appear much these days, but whenever he comes as a feat, its awesome), Pharrell`s been consistent over the years though his peak was 99-05, Janelle Monáe, Esperanza Spalding. Bowie, Kate Bush and Prince are all still awesome. There are so much people making so much higher quality music than JT. I dont see why he's being sooooo overrated.

Everyone you've mentioned is backed by the mainstream music industry. shrug

NEXT

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Reply #103 posted 03/22/13 8:25pm

BrazilianOnRas
pberryBeret

Cuddles said:

BrazilianOnRaspberryBeret said:

Oh come on! There's Miguel, Cee Lo, André 3000 (who doesnt appear much these days, but whenever he comes as a feat, its awesome), Pharrell`s been consistent over the years though his peak was 99-05, Janelle Monáe, Esperanza Spalding. Bowie, Kate Bush and Prince are all still awesome. There are so much people making so much higher quality music than JT. I dont see why he's being sooooo overrated.

Everyone you've mentioned is backed by the mainstream music industry. shrug

NEXT

Okay, then there's NO male pop talented superstar these days, for this generation. There was for past generations. This generation there are great rnb talents which did not rise to superstardom, though. It's nothing to get desperate about. Rock and roll also suffered a lot in the 00s. What's the Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin or even, more recent examples, Nirvana or Radiohead of this generation?? There's no great rock band for this generation as there was for past ones, and so is for the male pop star. It is what it is.

[Edited 3/22/13 20:28pm]

-Wtv u heard bout me is true,I change the rules n do what I wanna do.[Im n love w God,He's the only way - NOT!]We know we gotta die some day,so Im gon have fun evr MF night!Im gon 2 another life.How bout u?
-Im wit u...Ur so cool, evrtg u do is SUCCESS.
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Reply #104 posted 03/22/13 8:29pm

Cuddles

avatar

BrazilianOnRaspberryBeret said:

Cuddles said:

Everyone you've mentioned is backed by the mainstream music industry. shrug

NEXT

Okay, than there's NO male pop talented superstar these days, for this generation. There was for past generations. This generation there are great rnb talents which did not rise to superstardom, though. It's nothing to get desperate about. Rock and roll suffered a lot in the 00s. What's the Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin or even, more recently, Nirvana or Radiohead of this generation. There's no great band for this generation as for past ones, and so is for the male pop star. It is what it is.

No one needs to be, it's not that deep. No one cares, it's a shot in the dark.

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Reply #105 posted 03/22/13 8:32pm

BrazilianOnRas
pberryBeret

CynicKill said:

Esperanza Spalding?

Strike one: Female

Strike two: Black

Strike three: Jazz

She'll never be trumpeted the way Justin is.

Do you think race is still a big issue for becoming a global superstar? What about Beyoncé and Alicia Keys? I don't think it's the case anymore.

-Wtv u heard bout me is true,I change the rules n do what I wanna do.[Im n love w God,He's the only way - NOT!]We know we gotta die some day,so Im gon have fun evr MF night!Im gon 2 another life.How bout u?
-Im wit u...Ur so cool, evrtg u do is SUCCESS.
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Reply #106 posted 03/22/13 8:35pm

Cuddles

avatar

BrazilianOnRaspberryBeret said:

CynicKill said:

Esperanza Spalding?

Strike one: Female

Strike two: Black

Strike three: Jazz

She'll never be trumpeted the way Justin is.

Do you think race is still a big issue for becoming a global superstar? What about Beyoncé and Alicia Keys? I don't think it's the case anymore.

There are no more standards for 'global superstars', forget all that you have known.

I think this site is making me feel ill.

To make a thief, make an owner; to create crime, create laws.
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Reply #107 posted 03/22/13 8:41pm

BrazilianOnRas
pberryBeret

Cuddles said:

BrazilianOnRaspberryBeret said:

Do you think race is still a big issue for becoming a global superstar? What about Beyoncé and Alicia Keys? I don't think it's the case anymore.

There are no more standards for 'global superstars', forget all that you have known.

I think this site is making me feel ill.

Sorry, didnt mean to offend your intelligence.

-Wtv u heard bout me is true,I change the rules n do what I wanna do.[Im n love w God,He's the only way - NOT!]We know we gotta die some day,so Im gon have fun evr MF night!Im gon 2 another life.How bout u?
-Im wit u...Ur so cool, evrtg u do is SUCCESS.
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Reply #108 posted 03/22/13 9:18pm

CynicKill

As far as race is concerned there have been major leaps so it's not as much of a hindrance, but I still feel you have to work a lot harder.

Beyonce works like a dog, yet people still challenge her status whenever Britney Spears comes out with a hit record. In order for Beyonce to get any credit (I know her catalogue is weak but so is Spears's) she had to do Tina Turner times ten plus do it live. Britney loses a little weight and lip syncs her way through concerts and is considered the queen of pop.

Now we have Justin Timberlake being labelled a genius and the next everything with THAT voice and no true classic writing credits to his name? Whereas Frank Ocean had to be a truly talanted songwriter to get the press behind him (Channel Orange was getting lauded pre Bi-Gate).

I do think white priveledge is still at play.

But it's pop music. In the end it's all fun.

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Reply #109 posted 03/22/13 9:59pm

BrazilianOnRas
pberryBeret

CynicKill said:

As far as race is concerned there have been major leaps so it's not as much of a hindrance, but I still feel you have to work a lot harder.

Beyonce works like a dog, yet people still challenge her status whenever Britney Spears comes out with a hit record. In order for Beyonce to get any credit (I know her catalogue is weak but so is Spears's) she had to do Tina Turner times ten plus do it live. Britney loses a little weight and lip syncs her way through concerts and is considered the queen of pop.

I dont see much comparison to Spears and Beyoncé's music. You can say both are pop, but Beyoncé's is very rnb inflected. And she's a superstar. When she came with her Sasha Fierce world tour for four shows in Brazil it was a tremendous success. And she became known to a very popular audience. People who don't know much about non-Brazilian music were talking about her, and tv had many programs about her, on open Brazilian tv. I went to one of these shows and people knew all the words to the songs, which AMAZED Beyoncé herself. She'd make a face whenever people sung all the lyrics through. She truly seemed surprised. Britney has been here touring some times, but it was nothing like that.

-Wtv u heard bout me is true,I change the rules n do what I wanna do.[Im n love w God,He's the only way - NOT!]We know we gotta die some day,so Im gon have fun evr MF night!Im gon 2 another life.How bout u?
-Im wit u...Ur so cool, evrtg u do is SUCCESS.
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Reply #110 posted 03/23/13 1:05am

mjscarousal

BrazilianOnRaspberryBeret said:

CynicKill said:

As far as race is concerned there have been major leaps so it's not as much of a hindrance, but I still feel you have to work a lot harder.

Beyonce works like a dog, yet people still challenge her status whenever Britney Spears comes out with a hit record. In order for Beyonce to get any credit (I know her catalogue is weak but so is Spears's) she had to do Tina Turner times ten plus do it live. Britney loses a little weight and lip syncs her way through concerts and is considered the queen of pop.

I dont see much comparison to Spears and Beyoncé's music. You can say both are pop, but Beyoncé's is very rnb inflected. And she's a superstar. When she came with her Sasha Fierce world tour for four shows in Brazil it was a tremendous success. And she became known to a very popular audience. People who don't know much about non-Brazilian music were talking about her, and tv had many programs about her, on open Brazilian tv. I went to one of these shows and people knew all the words to the songs, which AMAZED Beyoncé herself. She'd make a face whenever people sung all the lyrics through. She truly seemed surprised. Britney has been here touring some times, but it was nothing like that.

I agree with your point but I disagree with this.

She is a pop star that occassionaly makes R&B music . Even when she was with DC she made mostly pop music.

I dont see how anybody could think Brittany gets more credit than Beyonce when Beyonce is more critically acclaim and has more awards than Spears.

I dont like both of them but Brittany has better pop songs. I actually think she deserves more credit when they talk about Beyonce as if Brittany Spears was not a big pop star herself during her prime.

But like Cuddles said its just pop music and nobody out now is or has made a significant impact on it. I also would not call Bey or Alicia global superstars. They might be internationally known but there not on a Madonna or MJ level of popularity. Now thats global.

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Reply #111 posted 03/23/13 2:11am

novabrkr

This might shock you, but her name is actually Britney.

[Edited 3/23/13 2:12am]

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Reply #112 posted 03/23/13 2:20am

mjscarousal

novabrkr said:

This might shock you, but her name is actually Britney.

[Edited 3/23/13 2:12am]

I always spell her name that way but you know who I am talking about so what difference does it make?

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Reply #113 posted 03/23/13 2:26am

novabrkr

Why do you spell her name that way?

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Reply #114 posted 03/23/13 3:59am

Shawy89

avatar

Look look look in this generation we have only one artist who perfectly shows us the pure definition of entertaining live shows and perfect live singing, that's Bruno Mars.

JT is fine, his music is always catchy and cool but i don't feel like he's Talented in all sides, he dances very well, his band is cool, he brings class back...etc But overall i think Bruno is way better. Unorthodox Jukebox musically is so varied than 20/20, i do respect what Timbaland did with 20/20 but it's just the same sound over and over, same R&B thing as his two previous albums. While if you check out UJ you'll find rock, pop, reggae, jazz, r&b, dance, soul, there's even a classic song that sound just like 20s tunes, called "Old & Crazy" featuring jazz artist Esperanza Splading. Not to mention that, with all my respect to fans here, Bruno Mars makes Justin Timberlake look like a kid when it comes to vocals.

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Reply #115 posted 03/23/13 11:12am

BrazilianOnRas
pberryBeret

mjscarousal said:

I also would not call Bey or Alicia global superstars. They might be internationally known but there not on a Madonna or MJ level of popularity. Now thats global.

Yes, but if global is only on that level, there was Prince during Purple Rain, Michael, Madonna, Elvis, Beatles, Rolling Stones, Elton John, Led Zeppelin and that's IT! Very few cases.

-Wtv u heard bout me is true,I change the rules n do what I wanna do.[Im n love w God,He's the only way - NOT!]We know we gotta die some day,so Im gon have fun evr MF night!Im gon 2 another life.How bout u?
-Im wit u...Ur so cool, evrtg u do is SUCCESS.
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Reply #116 posted 03/23/13 11:21am

BrazilianOnRas
pberryBeret

mjscarousal said:

She is a pop star that occassionaly makes R&B music . Even when she was with DC she made mostly pop music.

I agree she has the rnb and pop songs separated, but many of her songs are a hybrid of both. You can say, for example, that her three biggest or more important hits, Say My Name, Crazy in Love and Single Ladies, are pop and rnb at the same time.

-Wtv u heard bout me is true,I change the rules n do what I wanna do.[Im n love w God,He's the only way - NOT!]We know we gotta die some day,so Im gon have fun evr MF night!Im gon 2 another life.How bout u?
-Im wit u...Ur so cool, evrtg u do is SUCCESS.
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Reply #117 posted 03/23/13 3:37pm

EddieC

mjscarousal said:

novabrkr said:

This might shock you, but her name is actually Britney.

[Edited 3/23/13 2:12am]

I always spell her name that way but you know who I am talking about so what difference does it make?

Because some things aren't opinion, but are simple right and wrong. Spelling someone's name wrong (and coming back with "what difference does it make?" when someone points out your error) shows a lack of respect, either for the person you're talking about or the person you're talking to.

If you don't mean to show a lack of respect, spell the name right and accept correction when it comes. If you do mean to show a lack of respect, continue spelling it wrong. But be aware that you're showing a lack of respect, and don't be surprised if people decide to show some back.

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Reply #118 posted 03/23/13 4:52pm

Cuddles

avatar

falloff
To make a thief, make an owner; to create crime, create laws.
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Reply #119 posted 03/23/13 6:56pm

mjscarousal

BrazilianOnRaspberryBeret said:

mjscarousal said:

She is a pop star that occassionaly makes R&B music . Even when she was with DC she made mostly pop music.

I agree she has the rnb and pop songs separated, but many of her songs are a hybrid of both. You can say, for example, that her three biggest or more important hits, Say My Name, Crazy in Love and Single Ladies, are pop and rnb at the same time.

I disagree with Single Ladies and Crazy in Love. I think those are pop songs.

Now Love on Top is a R&B song

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Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Justin Timberlake: Biggest Male Pop Star Of This Generation?