Scorp said:

yes, you're correct, that was the exact reason why he lost millions of fans

for every new fan he gained after his change of appearance, he lost 3 fans as a result, and that ration resulted in the trajectory of his record sales after THRILLER

he lost over half his american fanbase....where Thriller sold 25 million copies in America, Bad sold 6-8 million copies, a 20 million decline in sales....that's staggering.......

No offense, but I laughed back then at those who said this and still chuckle at those that say this. I just find saying this so lazy and predicatable. Like of course it's him that has this unrealistic expectation put upon him.

One of the things i've noticed about other music forums is, his peers can go on to sell under a milion and become irrelevant and so many other things and their fans never dwell on that stuff and don't hold it aginst them. But with MJ there's always this overdramatizing about him losing fans and other nonsense.

Talking of "losing fans", I had a discussion with a couple of friends yesterday as they were annoying me about me saying Madonna was boring now. But we all eventually agreed that Madonna's current problem is that she's trying too hard to cater for a younger fan base instead of pleasing the fans who have been with her for decades and are in their 30s and 40s now. There aren't really a bunch of 10 year old girls and boys becoming Madonna fans these days so it's clearly not working… or Prince. You can say that about Michael Jackson though.

Surprised nobody posted these

Al Capone

Price of Fame

GoldDolphin said:

alphastreet said:

I've also heard of some European countries not giving him the time of day till Thriller, like in Poland, and in the 70's and earlier 80's, in places like East Africa and the Middle East, though he may have been known, the Osmonds and Queen and even the Beatles music was more popular at first.

As for which tour you prefer, that has more to do with your musical and style preference than michael jackson. So you're not into the glam rock look and pop/rock tinged music he put out, it's not your cup of tea, why not just agree to disagree?

[Edited 9/8/12 13:33pm]

Even though people in Europe, Latin america and Asia, Africa knew who the Jackons and MJ was during the thriller era, it was nowhere NEAR Bad. It was Michaelmania in many countries after Bad and during the Dangerous/HIstory eras because in many former soviet countries (dictorships around the world) it wasnt allowed/expensive to listen to western/american music. Queen was mostly known in Europe, Latin America and South Africa & the USA , not so much in the african or asian continent. The osmonds, not really that famous unless people lived in american friendly countries. The Beatles all the countries that has ever been invaded by british rule or speak english. MJ was the most famous in the world during the Bad, Dangerous, HIStory tour because he went to all 5 continents in a larger way - but that's also the decline for his american fanbase. I personally love all MJs eras because he shows growth and innovation, like very few artists have.

Exactly, and I remember reading about this too, and talking to mj fan friends or family friends that grew up overseas, describing when or how mj became big. One fan's account was that satellite dishes became more accessible in the 90's, and that exposed mj to a large audience during Dangerous, and in another country when snippets of Bad era videos were shown during nominations for an awards show, that's all people could talk about for days and stuff like that. I've also known of some people who didn't know other 80's music, but owned Thriller, which I find funny too cause though I love Thriller, it is not my favourite album of the early 80's though still awesome, there was just too much good music out there back then to settle with one artist IMO, and it was after that MJ was standing out the most IMO

musicology54 said:

I hope that isn't cascio on price of fame. I know that fake falsetto anywhere.

That's 100% MJ

ViintageJunkiie said:

musicology54 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

That's 100% MJ

It is? Oh. I honestly thought that was him using that fake azz falsetto.

Nope. Price of Fame is a true BAD outtake. It was supposed to be used for the Pepsi campaign but Pepsi decided to go with a revamped version of BAD instead.

wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

price of fame is such a great song.................amazing 100% michael..............I MISS THAT VOICE REALLY i love it.............

al capone ............omggggggggggggggggggggggg just wow

musicology54 said:

I hope that isn't cascio on price of fame. I know that fake falsetto anywhere.

no that is 100%michael...........

fraudcascio cannot sing like this.....

mookie said:

Scorp said:

yes, you're correct, that was the exact reason why he lost millions of fans

for every new fan he gained after his change of appearance, he lost 3 fans as a result, and that ration resulted in the trajectory of his record sales after THRILLER

he lost over half his american fanbase....where Thriller sold 25 million copies in America, Bad sold 6-8 million copies, a 20 million decline in sales....that's staggering.......

No offense, but I laughed back then at those who said this and still chuckle at those that say this. I just find saying this so lazy and predicatable. Like of course it's him that has this unrealistic expectation put upon him.

One of the things i've noticed about other music forums is, his peers can go on to sell under a milion and become irrelevant and so many other things and their fans never dwell on that stuff and don't hold it aginst them. But with MJ there's always this overdramatizing about him losing fans and other nonsense.

HE sure wasn't laughin.......not when he was expecting to sell 100 million copies of BAD, based on what he had accomplish with Thriller

and the more he saw his sales decline, the more he attempted to come up w/ways to turn the tide

what he did do was fire his manager Frank Dileo and ceased his collaboration with Quincy Jones saying Quincy was too old and no longer adapt to the changing times...heads started rollin

and then the same year of 1989, Quincy Jones releases BACK ON THE BLOCK, which received critical acclaim and a multitude of artists representing the entire musical spectrum was eager to participate on it: Siedah Garrett, Melle Mel, Kool Moe Dee, Big Daddy Kane, Ice-T, The Brothers Johnson, Barry White, El Debarge, Al. B. Sure, Ella Fitzgerald, Ray Charles, Take 6, Luther, George Benson, Dizzy Gillespie, Al Jarreau...and countless others

so much for being outdated......lolllll

Michael Jackson was the leading artist of the recording industry,

so naturally, he's going to be held to a higher standard because he wanted to be recognized as the biggest star on the planet

it's not so much that his record sales declined as much as it was as to WHY........

[Edited 9/9/12 18:19pm]

alphastreet said:

GoldDolphin said:

Even though people in Europe, Latin america and Asia, Africa knew who the Jackons and MJ was during the thriller era, it was nowhere NEAR Bad. It was Michaelmania in many countries after Bad and during the Dangerous/HIstory eras because in many former soviet countries (dictorships around the world) it wasnt allowed/expensive to listen to western/american music. Queen was mostly known in Europe, Latin America and South Africa & the USA , not so much in the african or asian continent. The osmonds, not really that famous unless people lived in american friendly countries. The Beatles all the countries that has ever been invaded by british rule or speak english. MJ was the most famous in the world during the Bad, Dangerous, HIStory tour because he went to all 5 continents in a larger way - but that's also the decline for his american fanbase. I personally love all MJs eras because he shows growth and innovation, like very few artists have.

Exactly, and I remember reading about this too, and talking to mj fan friends or family friends that grew up overseas, describing when or how mj became big. One fan's account was that satellite dishes became more accessible in the 90's, and that exposed mj to a large audience during Dangerous, and in another country when snippets of Bad era videos were shown during nominations for an awards show, that's all people could talk about for days and stuff like that. I've also known of some people who didn't know other 80's music, but owned Thriller, which I find funny too cause though I love Thriller, it is not my favourite album of the early 80's though still awesome, there was just too much good music out there back then to settle with one artist IMO, and it was after that MJ was standing out the most IMO

Yes, you're very right about the satelite thing.... I feel you, Thriller is not my fav album either. The songs on Bad are beautifully made and the arrangments of songs on that album -like Liberian Girl are just extremly underrated.

I found a video that I think scorp or whatever his/her names is might find interesting

GoldDolphin said:

alphastreet said:

Exactly, and I remember reading about this too, and talking to mj fan friends or family friends that grew up overseas, describing when or how mj became big. One fan's account was that satellite dishes became more accessible in the 90's, and that exposed mj to a large audience during Dangerous, and in another country when snippets of Bad era videos were shown during nominations for an awards show, that's all people could talk about for days and stuff like that. I've also known of some people who didn't know other 80's music, but owned Thriller, which I find funny too cause though I love Thriller, it is not my favourite album of the early 80's though still awesome, there was just too much good music out there back then to settle with one artist IMO, and it was after that MJ was standing out the most IMO

Yes, you're very right about the satelite thing.... I feel you, Thriller is not my fav album either. The songs on Bad are beautifully made and the arrangments of songs on that album -like Liberian Girl are just extremly underrated.

I found a video that I think scorp or whatever his/her names is might find interesting

ooohhh yes, the clip speaks volumes

I discovered this clip a couple of years ago

it shows proof what the reaction was by the greater public

these were people eager to buy his follow up to Thriller, it wasn't like they were never fans

as esteemed music critic Nelson George said, Michael changing his appearance the way did would be offensive, especially to his black support who were the base of his appeal as he put it

yes, Michael had fans all over the land, I think that's awesome...I really do

but black people were the foundation that put him in position to achieve that global embrace

once he lost that foundation, his career was never the same, especially from his perspective

even in the midst of the hysteria overseas in Europe and abroad, he knew he had lost what was so vital, and that's what led him to focus on establishing himself as an international artist exclusively when he released DANGEROUS in 1991, out of necessity, because he thought he could make up for the loss

that's why he kept reconstructing his look, furthering the transformation, in an attempt to recreate a new identity that would "mask" the reality, to disassociate himself from his past (w/the exception of performing his classing songs such as the motown medleys), to cultivate a new body of fans he hoped would compensate for what he lost in america

for after BAD, he never toured in North America (the mainland) ever again.....that was not an accident

[Edited 9/9/12 19:00pm]

Michael had plans to tour America for the Dangerous but Sneddon and Evan Chandler and that drama prevented us from getting a US tour and from a killer "Dangerous" music video featuring the routine MJ has performed countless times on the Dangerous and HIStory tours.

Secondly, regarding the HIStory tour, it did touch US soil with shows in Hawaii, and honestly, I don't blame Michael for not coming to the USA. I don't think it was a "black/urban/population loss" thing nearly as much as it was the USA fucked Michael over in 93. They totally turned on him and didn't play his music nearly as much, whereas in UK and the places he did tour, it didn't impact his career.

Further, I was at the 2005 trial in person, supporting MJ, (not with crazy doves) but still there and got to see him on a few occassions, and was in the trial court-room for several days, and honestly, the US media were the only country there that would twist the facts of what happened in that court-room each day to make it like Michael was headed straight to jail, then acted shocked with the NOT GUILTY verdicts came back. Lastly, after the trial Michael's attorney told him to ditch Neverland and not look back because Sneddon probably would have been gunning for him - which is likely true. The prick always was.

Lastly, if Michael was so out of touch, his 30th anniversary that celebrated his whole career could have just as easily been in the UK but HE decided it should be in the USA.

That is why when MJ passed away, it pissed me (and several fans off) so much that America suddenly gave Michael one big hug. Where was that when the man was alive and still trying to make sense of his life and career after having so many turn on him?

UGH!

what you guys are talking about? the allegations and all these expired horrible stuff...........enough already !!!

i'm enjoying the new leaks...waiting for i'm so blue

ViintageJunkiie said:

Surprised nobody posted these

Al Capone

Price of Fame

and @ Al Capone!

[Edited 9/9/12 20:01pm]

ll version of

NaughtyKitty said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

Surprised nobody posted these

Al Capone

Price of Fame

and @ Al Capone!

[Edited 9/9/12 20:01pm]

I hope we are getting the full version of Al Capone,and not just that snippet.

seeingvoices12 said:

wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

price of fame is such a great song.................amazing 100% michael..............I MISS THAT VOICE REALLY i love it.............

That voice will always forever be around.

Scorp, there are plenty of black people outside the US too listen to yourself

I can't stop playing Al Capone, though Price of Fame grabbed me the first time. I love the line "nobody should be grieving this way" and that's an interesting fact about Price of Fame, I think I did hear that before but forgot. Revamped Bad was a good call, cause though this is great, it definitely sounds Thriller era inspired, or like it was sandwiched between the two eras

GoldDolphin said:

alphastreet said:

Exactly, and I remember reading about this too, and talking to mj fan friends or family friends that grew up overseas, describing when or how mj became big. One fan's account was that satellite dishes became more accessible in the 90's, and that exposed mj to a large audience during Dangerous, and in another country when snippets of Bad era videos were shown during nominations for an awards show, that's all people could talk about for days and stuff like that. I've also known of some people who didn't know other 80's music, but owned Thriller, which I find funny too cause though I love Thriller, it is not my favourite album of the early 80's though still awesome, there was just too much good music out there back then to settle with one artist IMO, and it was after that MJ was standing out the most IMO

Yes, you're very right about the satelite thing.... I feel you, Thriller is not my fav album either. The songs on Bad are beautifully made and the arrangments of songs on that album -like Liberian Girl are just extremly underrated.

I found a video that I think scorp or whatever his/her names is might find interesting

Bad and Dangerous are my favourites

Yep, I can hear how Al Capone evolved to Smooth Criminal. And I hear some WBSS in it.

Price of Fame not as strong as what made the BAD album, but still sounds awesome.

I am excited to hear the rest

I really like Al Capone's funkiness.

Scorp said:

HE sure wasn't laughin.......not when he was expecting to sell 100 million copies of BAD, based on what he had accomplish with Thriller

and the more he saw his sales decline, the more he attempted to come up w/ways to turn the tide

what he did do was fire his manager Frank Dileo and ceased his collaboration with Quincy Jones saying Quincy was too old and no longer adapt to the changing times...heads started rollin

and then the same year of 1989, Quincy Jones releases BACK ON THE BLOCK, which received critical acclaim and a multitude of artists representing the entire musical spectrum was eager to participate on it: Siedah Garrett, Melle Mel, Kool Moe Dee, Big Daddy Kane, Ice-T, The Brothers Johnson, Barry White, El Debarge, Al. B. Sure, Ella Fitzgerald, Ray Charles, Take 6, Luther, George Benson, Dizzy Gillespie, Al Jarreau...and countless others

so much for being outdated......lolllll

Michael Jackson was the leading artist of the recording industry,

so naturally, he's going to be held to a higher standard because he wanted to be recognized as the biggest star on the planet

it's not so much that his record sales declined as much as it was as to WHY........

[Edited 9/9/12 18:19pm]

But the thing was, he didn't have to do anything to turn the tide. He was still the shit overall. 5 fucking #1s off of 1 album? That's crazy. It wasn't until this year that amazing record was broken.

No way he was going to come near sales of Thriller and I find it sad that he felt that he had to top what that album did. It wasn an impossible feat.

The amazing thing about Michael is that even if he didn't get his wish, he was still making records that hadn't been made before. That's still a major accomplishment IMHO. "Bad" was just as iconic as "Thriller" was.

BAD was too strong in the synths on some songs (Speed Demon, Just Good Friends, etc.) Makes the album sound dated. MJ and Riley gave the next album an edge it needed. This is what Quincy lacked.

But not taking anything from Quincy, from the 70's to 80's he was a genius in his own right. Of course, it helps being surrounded by talented people as well.

OMG human nature inedite

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xtfwbz_michael-jackson-human-nature-live-from-wembley-stadium_music

Derek1984 said:

BAD was too strong in the synths on some songs (Speed Demon, Just Good Friends, etc.) Makes the album sound dated. MJ and Riley gave the next album an edge it needed. This is what Quincy lacked.

But not taking anything from Quincy, from the 70's to 80's he was a genius in his own right. Of course, it helps being surrounded by talented people as well.

I once thought as you do. A few years ago i started a thread saying Bad wasn't all that for those reasons, but time is being kind to it again now.

claudiax said:

OMG human nature inedite

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xtfwbz_michael-jackson-human-nature-live-from-wembley-stadium_music

It's perfect.....Michael