Terrib3Towel said:

What channel was that?

CNN I'm watching it in Ireland its 2:50 in the morning here I just cant sleep

Narada Walden is on now

scriptgirl said:

If you go to Jane Fonda's site, www.janefonda.com. she gives a VERY good view of the party that night and the sentiment and that she and a lot of others had no idea Whitney's body was upstairs.

My cousin Reena and I talked about Whitney and she remembers when Whitney's 1st cd came out and how, back in the day of NO social media and a very narrow media landscape in general that Whitney and her debut were crammed down everyone's throats.

Reena also told me that as she remembers it, at the time, black media felt Whitney was not black enough and this all came to a head in 1990 or 1991-whatever cd she had out at the time was struggling and black media was going in on Whitney not being black enough. That star spangled banner rendition put her back on top.

yeah, life in the 80s! we had three main networks, and then whatever four or five independent local stations that might have been in your area. most people (like my family) didn't have cable, so most people hadn't even seen mtv, but b/c of mj, we all knew about it.

when her debut came out, mj had broken the color barrier on mtv which gave clive a chance to expose whitney to a wider audience. it was the perfect 'crossover' showcase for another non-threatening, 'safe' black performer. like mj, whitney was young and personable, and she really had no other black female competition. aretha, gladys and chaka were older, plus they were 'rooted' in r&b. diana, who was mainly pop and was from motown, the ultimate definition of crossover success, didn't have that young, telegenic, effervesence that whitney had. i don't think i would say she was 'crammed', as much as i would say she was exploited to the max b/c she was the fresh new thing, on a network that valued fresh new things, and the wider audience responded to her. it's kind of hard to describe, b/c as you say, our media landscape has changed so much that no one can dominate the way mj, madonna, prince or whitney could back then.

my recollection is that whitney was still very popular in the early 90s with the 'crossover' audience, but there was discontent with a certain segment of the black media, as you say. she hadn't really been marketed to them in a big way, and even though babyface produced the album i think you're referring to which had a little more edge than her previous stuff, there was still this dismissive attitude towards her from some in the black community. she was booed at the soul train awards and was apparently very hurt about that.

i was listening to larry elder's show this afternoon. he was saying how he and della reese were talking about whitney a few years back. she knows cissy. he said they talked about whether her decision to hook up with bobby had to do with her feeling that she didn't want to be known as a 'sell out' anymore. larry said he felt that whitney chose bobby, someone who was the very definition of an unbridled black man who was 'keepin' it real'. she could have married a black doctor, but that wouldn't have necessarily have helped her out in some people's eyes. she didn't want 'bougie'; she wanted to be seen as 'real'. i don't know if that's the case, but larry said della agreed with his observation based on what she knew about whitney.

vainandy said:

nursev said:

vainandy said: Yep! Whitney made his ass super rich-she did alotta good for him. How soon they forget. He could have at least postponed the party-I totally agree Andy.

It also goes to show that no matter what "crossing color lines" image he tried to give her, he didn't even respect his own charade and in the end, rather than inconveniencing the party, her body was left upstairs as if she were "just one of the hotel maids". I guarantee you, somebody like Barbara Streisand's body would have been gotten out of there no matter what it took.

Danm...now that's deep.

nursev said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah I don't think Aretha trusted Clive. I know he probably tried to push her to do tours overseas and Aretha let it be known she was afraid to fly and didn't want to and this is when Clive stopped focusing on her after 1986. I'm thinking Clive was trying to make her into his Tina Turner (you know use that same tactic used with Tina to catapult her back to the spotlight in the same way for Aretha) like he was trying to make Whitney his Diana Ross.

Ur so right cuz Aretha let it be known she was never flying-maybe her will was a lot stronger than Phyllis n Whitney. Aretha was not having it.

Gurl, I can imagine Re-Re putting her foot up Clive's a$$ if he tried to make her do anything she didn't want to do.

banks said:

Tell The Truth Chaka!!!!!!! She said it was COMPLETE insanity for Clive to have that Party while Whitney laid upstairs DEAD....

Right? She was tellin it like it T.I. Tis!

Lawrence Odonell just scrapped his whole politics format tonight to talk with a whole panel about Whitney. Also very candid.

shellyk84 said:

Terrib3Towel said:

What channel was that?

CNN I'm watching it in Ireland its 2:50 in the morning here I just cant sleep

Narada Walden is on now

I think the show re-airs at 11 or 12.

Y'all need to check out Lawrence Odonnell on MSNBC too.

Just answer one question:

For Clive Davis, was Whitney Houston his long overdue "blood sacifice" or not?

TonyVanDam said:

Just answer one question:

For Clive Davis, was Whitney Houston his long overdue "blood sacifice" or not?

blood sacrifice, no. if there was any fowl play then Whitney Houston was sacrificed for financial loss during her being consummed by drug addiction.

go figure how much her career was affected financially due to drugs., circa 1992 - 2007 or so.

record companies get a one-hundred fold financial return when a (past or present) successful recording artist on their label dies.

in less than 2 yrs Whitney record sales will have paid off all her debts, plus line the pockets of Clive Davis and others.

TonyVanDam said:

Just answer one question:

For Clive Davis, was Whitney Houston his long overdue "blood sacifice" or not?

What?!

TonyVanDam said:

Just answer one question:

For Clive Davis, was Whitney Houston his long overdue "blood sacifice" or not?

This is just moronic. Even for you.

Its funny that the Phyllis Hyman connection was brought up. I remember reading in her book that she was supposed to be the diva of Arista before Whitney, but Clive got so frustrated with her. Phyllis wasn't the one to be told to stand next to a wall, she fought for her material and she did that broadway show - which Clive detested - and generally speaking, Ms.Hyman was confrontational, she didn't give a fuck what Clive wanted, and so - as the book implied again - Nippy's discovery was a way to let Phyllis know that she "missed her chance" with him.

I wouldn't be surprised if Phyllis was confrontational to him, he had a history of being a bully, at some point back in the early 70s when he used to work in CBS(shortly before his scandal) he supposedly went against Sly Stone for not rushing with a new album. Didn't work.

One thing for sure, I'll remember to laugh when I see the next interview of him talking about her "music" because one thing for sure, he didn't give a damn about her or her music, and the way he operates tells me she's better off dead to him, financially.

Paris9748430 said:

TonyVanDam said:

Just answer one question:

For Clive Davis, was Whitney Houston his long overdue "blood sacifice" or not?

This is just moronic. Even for you.

Don't get twisted. Personally, I find the rumors about "sacifices" being far fetched. But there only a matter of time before other conspiracy researchers start making videos asking the same question. So the hell with it, I might as well ask the question upfront.

Timmy84 said:

nursev said:

While all this is interesting I think what is really interesting is the fact that both whitney and phyllis hyman were associated with clive and both women died fucked up deaths. It's sad that clive kept bringing whitney to fuctions where she would always end up having to sing. I think she was tired of having to face that kinda scrutiny and embarassment-her voice was gone. Clive Davis seems like he will bust hell wide open! He knows he should've cancelled that party, but instead renamed it a "tribute to whitney" damn shame. I don't know how true all the things in this link are, but it's truly interesting. May Phyllis and Whitney rest in peace http://www.dirtygurl.net/

When I first heard of Whitney's death and that Clive's party was held at the same hotel, my immediate thoughts were on Clive's much more tumultuous working relationship with Phyllis. Phyllis (and this is not to discredit Whitney because she was so young) seemed to have more of a backbone and when she wouldn't do what Clive wanted her to do to "become pop", he dropped her like a bad habit (I can imagine he dropped Angela Bofill for the same reason).

He also did this to Graham_Parker, appearently telling him, 'The public is passively resisting you' as a way of saying that nobody liked him that much. That turned me against him quite early on.

As for Alicia Keys, her singing that duet with Jack White (Another Way To Die) should keep her from being forced by him to sing and sound more 'pop' (I hope.)

Harlepolis said:

Its funny that the Phyllis Hyman connection was brought up. I remember reading in her book that she was supposed to be the diva of Arista before Whitney, but Clive got so frustrated with her. Phyllis wasn't the one to be told to stand next to a wall, she fought for her material and she did that broadway show - which Clive detested - and generally speaking, Ms.Hyman was confrontational, she didn't give a fuck what Clive wanted, and so - as the book implied again - Nippy's discovery was a way to let Phyllis know that she "missed her chance" with him.

I wouldn't be surprised if Phyllis was confrontational to him, he had a history of being a bully, at some point back in the early 70s when he used to work in CBS(shortly before his scandal) he supposedly went against Sly Stone for not rushing with a new album. Didn't work.

One thing for sure, I'll remember to laugh when I see the next interview of him talking about her "music" because one thing for sure, he didn't give a damn about her or her music, and the way he operates tells me she's better off dead to him, financially.

I think we talked about Phyllis is previous threads before Harle. I also mention that Phyllis was just "too soulful" of a vocalist to go down the crossover pop path that Whitney would ended up taking instead.

nursev said:

Timmy84 said:

They both were using heroin and cocaine. Natalie was once busted on heroin back in early 1975 just before her debut album came out.

So sad-the music industry has ruined many lives. Makes me wonder how folks like Prince managed to avoid alotta this shit.

He stuck to his vision, and became a born-again Christian-that MIGHT have saved him from this fate.

BTW, did anybody hear and remember how Whitney met Courtney Love once, and both said that they were going to do an album together?

Fantomex50 said:

Timmy84 said:

When I first heard of Whitney's death and that Clive's party was held at the same hotel, my immediate thoughts were on Clive's much more tumultuous working relationship with Phyllis. Phyllis (and this is not to discredit Whitney because she was so young) seemed to have more of a backbone and when she wouldn't do what Clive wanted her to do to "become pop", he dropped her like a bad habit (I can imagine he dropped Angela Bofill for the same reason).

He also did this to Graham_Parker, appearently telling him, 'The public is passively resisting you' as a way of saying that nobody liked him that much. That turned me against him quite early on.

As for Alicia Keys, her singing that duet with Jack White (Another Way To Die) should keep her from being forced by him to sing and sound more 'pop' (I hope.)

I doubt it. These days, Alicia Keys & Kelly Clarkson has been successfully bullied to do exact what Clive wantes them to do to please his stockbrokers. It'll be interesting to see and hear how Jennifer Hudson sounds musically within the next 5 years from now.

TonyVanDam said:

Paris9748430 said:

This is just moronic. Even for you.

Don't get twisted. Personally, I find the rumors about "sacifices" being far fetched. But there only a matter of time before other conspiracy researchers start making videos asking the same question. So the hell with it, I might as well ask the question upfront.

Good to have you back, Tony

TonyVanDam said:

Fantomex50 said:

He also did this to Graham_Parker, appearently telling him, 'The public is passively resisting you' as a way of saying that nobody liked him that much. That turned me against him quite early on.

As for Alicia Keys, her singing that duet with Jack White (Another Way To Die) should keep her from being forced by him to sing and sound more 'pop' (I hope.)

I doubt it. These days, Alicia Keys & Kelly Clarkson has been successfully bullied to do exact what Clive wantes them to do to please his stockbrokers. It'll be interesting to see and hear how Jennifer Hudson sounds musically within the next 5 years from now.

Then they should both break the frack away from this fool NOW, before they both end up like Whitney or Phyllis.

Mad luv and respect to Chaka Khan. She ran w/ the panthers, Fred Hampton and the whole nine. Dont sleep on her.

http://www.wttw.com/main.taf?p=76,4,2,1&content=video-promo-chakahampton

[Edited 2/15/12 10:08am]

Timmy84 said:

Terrib3Towel said:

Oh shit.

I think Natalie mentioned that she and Chaka were so desperate for drugs one night they decided to trick out. It was scary, of course, because they were celebrities so I'm thinking they stopped before word leaked about what they were doing.

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Natalie doing the drug thing while in college, long before she got a record deal?

I think it's mention in her book.

Coping with her father's death still bothered her.

And her relationship with her mother was rocky as well.

[Edited 2/15/12 10:54am]

HuMpThAnG said:

Timmy84 said:

I think Natalie mentioned that she and Chaka were so desperate for drugs one night they decided to trick out. It was scary, of course, because they were celebrities so I'm thinking they stopped before word leaked about what they were doing.

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Natalie doing the drug thing while in college, long before she got a record deal?

I think it's mention in her book.

Coping with her father's death still bothered her.

And her relationship with her mother was rocky as well.

[Edited 2/15/12 10:54am]

Yup...

k

HuMpThAnG said:

k

No problem.

Apparently, Natalie's drug taking started with weed and LSD type drugs and then it moved up to heroin in the early '70s. And that's how that started.

Man I hope I never fall victim to alcohol/drug addiction. It literally fucks your life up beyond repair.

Harlepolis said:

TonyVanDam said:

Don't get twisted. Personally, I find the rumors about "sacifices" being far fetched. But there only a matter of time before other conspiracy researchers start making videos asking the same question. So the hell with it, I might as well ask the question upfront.

Good to have you back, Tony

JonnyApplesauce said:

Mad luv and respect to Chaka Khan. She ran w/ the panthers, Fred Hampton and the whole nine. Dont sleep on her.

http://www.wttw.com/main.taf?p=76,4,2,1&content=video-promo-chakahampton

[Edited 2/15/12 10:08am]

I enjoyed that, thanks for sharing. She talked briefly about that period in her book, I wish she went into more details about it though.

Timmy84 said:

I think Natalie mentioned that she and Chaka were so desperate for drugs one night they decided to trick out. It was scary, of course, because they were celebrities so

I'm thinking they stopped before word leaked about what they were doing.

'cuse me Timmy84, is your quote hearsay, fact or speculation? with all due respect, do you have a source to back what you are thinking?

i'm one for factual info (not rumours) so if i repeat the words i don't end up looking like a:

"ack, just the facts folks, just the facts..ack"

"What i don't see with my eyes, i don't witness with my mouth."

~Jewish Proverb~

free2bfreeda said:

Timmy84 said:

'cuse me Timmy84, is your quote hearsay, fact or speculation? with all due respect, do you have a source to back what you are thinking?

i'm one for factual info (not rumours) so if i repeat the words i don't end up looking like a:

"ack, just the facts folks, just the facts..ack"

"What i don't see with my eyes, i don't witness with my mouth."

~Jewish Proverb~

I've been trying to find the actual source. I know I read it somewhere. I think Natalie mentioned it around the time she was so high that there was a fire in her hotel and she didn't even get up... I swear I ain't making this up.

Timmy84 said:

free2bfreeda said:

'cuse me Timmy84, is your quote hearsay, fact or speculation? with all due respect, do you have a source to back what you are thinking?

i'm one for factual info (not rumours) so if i repeat the words i don't end up looking like a:

"ack, just the facts folks, just the facts..ack"

"What i don't see with my eyes, i don't witness with my mouth."

~Jewish Proverb~

I've been trying to find the actual source. I know I read it somewhere. I think Natalie mentioned it around the time she was so high that there was a fire in her hotel and she didn't even get up... I swear I ain't making this up.

I believe you friend

I think it was mention in her book

I think I loan my copy out to someone

So I can't prove it

[Edited 2/16/12 14:54pm]