HermesReborn said:

God why does every thread have to be about MJ...

seriously he creeps into everything

[Flaming Snipped - June7] coming along and talking shit and trying to make out he's a fucking angel who did no wrong and was the greatest thing since bread was sliced, but he's more known for miming on stage than singing so how the fuck can you consider someone like that to be the best vocalist ever? next someone will be saying britney is the best male vocalist as she sounds exactly like her records in concert

you don't get people saying that stevie, marvin, freddy or frank mimed do you?

[Oh, unless you missed it for, as you say, an inability to read, the author of this thread brought MJ and P into the conversation at the get go. - June7]

unique said:

you notice people tend to shout rather than sing when they are out of breathe? interestingly prince NEVER does that, no matter how energetic his performances. watch some of the 90-92 era stuff when the game boys are throwing him about and he still returns to the mic and sounds the same. he must have excellent cardio vasclular and breath control

He goes into his croaky mode when he can't pull it off sometimes though. Maybe he just sometimes doesn't hear himself due to the monitoring. Prince's overall singing technique - in his normal register -isn't a very toneful, so he doesn't have to compensate for his inability to hit some of the notes by shouting his way through the songs.

What I can tell from the Freddie Mercury & MJ duet that's circulating out there, their voices do not work together that well on it. Freddie gives a far more convincing performance on it, while Michael sounds very frail. But then again, Freddie's style was always more theatrical to the point of being ridiculous and there's a good reason why he became such a favourite for the sports crowd. I am always amused by the irony in that.

They're all different flavours that suit different types of music. I don't think Prince would score very high on the list of greatest singers ever, although we've gotten so used to his falsetto that we don't always notice how well he often does it.

novabrkr said:

unique said:

you notice people tend to shout rather than sing when they are out of breathe? interestingly prince NEVER does that, no matter how energetic his performances. watch some of the 90-92 era stuff when the game boys are throwing him about and he still returns to the mic and sounds the same. he must have excellent cardio vasclular and breath control

He goes into his croaky mode when he can't pull it off sometimes though. Maybe he just sometimes doesn't hear himself due to the monitoring. Prince's overall singing technique - in his normal register -isn't a very toneful, so he doesn't have to compensate for his inability to hit some of the notes by shouting his way through the songs.

What I can tell from the Freddie Mercury & MJ duet that's circulating out there, their voices do not work together that well on it. Freddie gives a far more convincing performance on it, while Michael sounds very frail. But then again, Freddie's style was always more theatrical to the point of being ridiculous and there's a good reason why he became such a favourite for the sports crowd. I am always amused by the irony in that.

They're all different flavours that suit different types of music. I don't think Prince would score very high on the list of greatest singers ever, although we've gotten so used to his falsetto that we don't always notice how well he often does it.

yeah, few rate prince as a vocalist, but i'd say he's just as talented if not moreso than anyone else. his vocals aren't that different to MJ, stevie, marvin, so like one, like the rest. i'd say it was the live performances that set him apart, with a great vocal after an energetic performance being the thing that sets him apart

unfortunately that's not the type of thing that many would notice in the first place, and as it's best observed on videos that aren't available through official means, specifically during certain period, it's not going to be picked up by many

as people have different tastes and there area few great vocalists to choose from, how could you really pick a single winner from them? if you do a poll it becomes a popularity contest. how many MJ fans would rate freddy higher because he never mimed in concert for example? you are just going to get biased and blinkered choices, with many voters not even being familiar with the other artists work in studio and live performace

I agree with you on the problem of calling MJ the greatest vocalist due to his habit of miming through a lot material. Calling MJ the "greatest ever" on any area of live music is highly questionable due to all the gimmicks and the lipsyncing that he resorted to during live performances after he had become the biggest star on the planet. One cannot forget that he always sang live during his days in The Jacksons, but I suppose those are not in the minds of most people when they call him the "greatest performer" ever. Most stars have mimed through a TV performance once or twice, but MJ depended on such shit to get through his later tours, no doubt.

I remember how disappointed I was at around 13 or 14 when I was a huge fan of his and started realizing this.

novabrkr said:

I agree with you on the problem of calling MJ the greatest vocalist due to his habit of miming through a lot material. Calling MJ the "greatest ever" on any area of live music is highly questionable due to all the gimmicks and the lipsyncing that he resorted to during live performances after he had become the biggest star on the planet. One cannot forget that he always sang live during his days in The Jacksons, but I suppose those are not in the minds of most people when they call him the "greatest performer" ever. Most stars have mimed through a TV performance once or twice, but MJ depended on such shit to get through his later tours, no doubt.

I remember how disappointed I was at around 13 or 14 when I was a huge fan of his and started realizing this.

there are loads of great live j5 performances from tv shows etc where it's all live, so to go from that to miming is a shame. and as prince also points out, he just didn't have a great band behind him. instead of concentrating on the music, with a great band and live singing, it was about putting on a show instead, and show it was, just over rehearsed overdone performance. same choreography each tour, the setlist and running order hardly changed, so it was more like a musical, going through the motions with no emotion, and when he did sing live it was often pretty horrible

i blame it on the drugs mainly, but of course MJ did say that at times he didn't want to go onstage but only did so as his dad threatened to beat him. if you watch any of the many solo tour videos it's quite apparent that he's going through the motions without really enjoying performing. and no wonder when he's going through the same "routine" ever night, nothing spontanous or improvised

when you watch any of his rehearsal videos he just doesn't seem to be in control of what's going on. there's a band willing and ready to play, but he's very distanced from them, again like in musical theatre where the band plays and the people onstage run through their lines. if you compare to a prince rehearsal for example, it's quite clear who is in charge and how enthusiastic he is

i wonder if things would have been different if he wasn't addicted to drugs for most of his life. i think both his live work and recorded work suffered dramatically as a result. and whilst drugs fucked up many artists, some still managed to pull off great albums like rumours and hotel california whilst fucked up on drugs and having crazy things going on in personal lives

unique said:

MattyJam said:

I much prefer Michael Jackson. I couldn't imagine Freddie pulling off the climax of Earth Song.

i couldn't imagine MJ pulling off crazy little thing called love or most queen songs

re: the old MJ vs FM as who is best vocalist, freddie wins hands down

why? for someone who some claim to be such a great vocalist, he wasn't able to sing live during his live solo concerts. and no-one gives a fuck about what he did pre-whenever. he mimed during all his solo tours, and mimed through most or almost all of his last two tours. how the fuck could someone be considered a great singer if they lip synch in a concert to a paying audience?

freddy gets the credit from people not just for his recorded work, but for his live performances. live aid in particular was one of the moments when the world took notice. what's the most referred to MJ live moment? mimimg to a song and taking a few steps of the backslide. his live performances were notable for his rehearsed choreography rather than his singing. how could someone consider someone to be the best singer if they mimed most of the time they stood on stage as an adult and the dancing is considered more important to the show than singing?

for that reason alone MJ falls WAY behind in the long list of great singers and for similar reasons it puts freddy up there for many

What's with you and MJ? Can't you just let opinions be opinions and stop being such a little whiny bitch about it? Jeez. This thread is about vocalists. And Michael's name was mentioned in this thread because he is also a vocalists. Now stop staying the closet about MJ and admit that you are obsessed. (more than the average fan, to be honest.)

[Edited 8/6/11 4:07am]

unique said:

MattyJam said:

I much prefer Michael Jackson. I couldn't imagine Freddie pulling off the climax of Earth Song.

i couldn't imagine MJ pulling off crazy little thing called love or most queen songs

Therefore they're both capable of doing something the other can't.

Your arrogance in this thread is laughable when this topic is so clearly subjective to personal taste and preference.

I prefer MJ's vocals because I find his voice more versatile. Freddie just belts it out like a powerhouse, Michael can do that but he can also sound heartbreakingly sincere and vulnerable. His voice is more emotive to my ears.

The fact that you compare Prince to either of them is a joke. Prince is no way near the league of Michael or Freddie as a vocalist. Not even close. I bet you'd have a hard time finding anyone outside of a Prince fanboard who'd rate him highly as a vocalist.

unique said:

if you watch any of the many solo tour videos it's quite apparent that he's going through the motions without really enjoying performing. and no wonder when he's going through the same "routine" ever night, nothing spontanous or improvised

That's a very uneducated opinion.

Michael improvised night after night on tour. Look at Billie Jean on the Dangerous and HIStory tours for example. The song could last anywhere between 6-12 mins on any given show with MJ popping and improvising all over the place.

Sure, a large part of his shows were tightly choreographed, but no two shows were ever the same.

HermesReborn said:

God why does every thread have to be about MJ...

seriously he creeps into everything

I agree. I mean, it's not as if the thread has anything to do with MALE VOCALISTS or this sub-forum has anything to do with music. Nope. Not at all.

Yeah, but maybe aside from hardcore Prince fans, no one really considers him to be some 'amazing' vocalist in the least. I think that he can barely sing well as it is, but to each their own. =/

[img:$uid]http://i.imgur.com/zlWzK.jpg[/img:$uid]

[Edited 8/6/11 4:23am]

MattyJam said:

unique said:

i couldn't imagine MJ pulling off crazy little thing called love or most queen songs

Therefore they're both capable of doing something the other can't.

Your arrogance in this thread is laughable when this topic is so clearly subjective to personal taste and preference.

I prefer MJ's vocals because I find his voice more versatile. Freddie just belts it out like a powerhouse, Michael can do that but he can also sound heartbreakingly sincere and vulnerable. His voice is more emotive to my ears.

The fact that you compare Prince to either of them is a joke. Prince is no way near the league of Michael or Freddie as a vocalist. Not even close. I bet you'd have a hard time finding anyone outside of a Prince fanboard who'd rate him highly as a vocalist.

WTF!!!!

You need to listen to Queen early stuff. Because that comment is beyond ignorat.

novabrkr said:

unique said:

you notice people tend to shout rather than sing when they are out of breathe? interestingly prince NEVER does that, no matter how energetic his performances. watch some of the 90-92 era stuff when the game boys are throwing him about and he still returns to the mic and sounds the same. he must have excellent cardio vasclular and breath control

He goes into his croaky mode when he can't pull it off sometimes though. Maybe he just sometimes doesn't hear himself due to the monitoring. Prince's overall singing technique - in his normal register -isn't a very toneful, so he doesn't have to compensate for his inability to hit some of the notes by shouting his way through the songs.

What I can tell from the Freddie Mercury & MJ duet that's circulating out there, their voices do not work together that well on it. Freddie gives a far more convincing performance on it, while Michael sounds very frail. But then again, Freddie's style was always more theatrical to the point of being ridiculous and there's a good reason why he became such a favourite for the sports crowd. I am always amused by the irony in that.

They're all different flavours that suit different types of music. I don't think Prince would score very high on the list of greatest singers ever, although we've gotten so used to his falsetto that we don't always notice how well he often does it.

He ranked 30th or 28th on best singers overall.

MattyJam said:

unique said:

i couldn't imagine MJ pulling off crazy little thing called love or most queen songs

Therefore they're both capable of doing something the other can't.

Your arrogance in this thread is laughable when this topic is so clearly subjective to personal taste and preference.

I prefer MJ's vocals because I find his voice more versatile. Freddie just belts it out like a powerhouse, Michael can do that but he can also sound heartbreakingly sincere and vulnerable. His voice is more emotive to my ears.

The fact that you compare Prince to either of them is a joke. Prince is no way near the league of Michael or Freddie as a vocalist. Not even close. I bet you'd have a hard time finding anyone outside of a Prince fanboard who'd rate him highly as a vocalist.

personal preferance is one thing, but with MJ you can put that clearly aside by the fact that he mimed so much instead of singing live. and for that fact alone he is far from the greatest male vocalist

how can you consider someone who mimes to be a great vocalist? that's what's laughable

What I can tell from the Freddie Mercury & MJ duet that's circulating out there, their voices do not work together that well on it. Freddie gives a far more convincing performance on it, while Michael sounds very frail. But then again, Freddie's style was always more theatrical to the point of being ridiculous and there's a good reason why he became such a favourite for the sports crowd. I am always amused by the irony in that.

Oh really? I hated Freddie's voice on State Of Shock...I think it sounded awful.

[Edited 8/6/11 4:45am]

MattyJam said:

unique said:

if you watch any of the many solo tour videos it's quite apparent that he's going through the motions without really enjoying performing. and no wonder when he's going through the same "routine" ever night, nothing spontanous or improvised

That's a very uneducated opinion.

Michael improvised night after night on tour. Look at Billie Jean on the Dangerous and HIStory tours for example. The song could last anywhere between 6-12 mins on any given show with MJ popping and improvising all over the place.

Sure, a large part of his shows were tightly choreographed, but no two shows were ever the same.

i think your idea of improvised is greatly biased. doing a bit more dancing whilst a highly experienced bunch of musicians vamp is far from improvised

smoothcriminal12 said:

What I can tell from the Freddie Mercury & MJ duet that's circulating out there, their voices do not work together that well on it. Freddie gives a far more convincing performance on it, while Michael sounds very frail. But then again, Freddie's style was always more theatrical to the point of being ridiculous and there's a good reason why he became such a favourite for the sports crowd. I am always amused by the irony in that.

Oh really? I hated Freddie's voice on Styate Of Shock...I think it sounded awful.

well it is a fucking shit song. you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear. that's why it wasn't released (that version)

unique said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Oh really? I hated Freddie's voice on Styate Of Shock...I think it sounded awful.

well it is a fucking shit song. you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear. that's why it wasn't released (that version)

I like the song...I just didn't think it was his style.

Unholyalliance said:

Yeah, but maybe aside from hardcore Prince fans, no one really considers him to be some 'amazing' vocalist in the least. I think that he can barely sing well as it is, but to each their own.

loads of people do. you read interviews with people frequently saying how great his voice is. plus you get people trying to copy his vocal style such as d'angelo, bilal, rahsaan patterson, etc

just because many people don't consider him to be a great vocalist doesn't mean he's not one. just like how he was rated the number 1 most underrated guitarist of all time

there's probably loads of other great vocalists who are even more talented but neither of us have heard of

but asides from personal taste prince is technically a great vocalist in both the studio and on stage, whereas there are plenty of people like MJ and madonna who were not and had to rely on backing tracks in concert. a tv show is a different kettle of fish, i've been at a tv show where prince mimed, but at least he played the guitar live, but in a concert to paying fans who adore the artist, it's just not on. and to have fans fooled into thinking that's acceptable is completely out of order. that's blind faith

This should make it easy.

unique said:

Unholyalliance said:

Yeah, but maybe aside from hardcore Prince fans, no one really considers him to be some 'amazing' vocalist in the least. I think that he can barely sing well as it is, but to each their own.

loads of people do. you read interviews with people frequently saying how great his voice is. plus you get people trying to copy his vocal style such as d'angelo, bilal, rahsaan patterson, etc

just because many people don't consider him to be a great vocalist doesn't mean he's not one. just like how he was rated the number 1 most underrated guitarist of all time

there's probably loads of other great vocalists who are even more talented but neither of us have heard of

but asides from personal taste prince is technically a great vocalist in both the studio and on stage, whereas there are plenty of people like MJ and madonna who were not and had to rely on backing tracks in concert. a tv show is a different kettle of fish, i've been at a tv show where prince mimed, but at least he played the guitar live, but in a concert to paying fans who adore the artist, it's just not on. and to have fans fooled into thinking that's acceptable is completely out of order. that's blind faith

TylerHippie said:

This should make it easy.

Range is not equivalent to greatest.

smoothcriminal12 said:

TylerHippie said:

This should make it easy.

Range is not equivalent to greatest.

I'm not saying that. I posted that to show people who sounded better on record.

TylerHippie said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Range is not equivalent to greatest.

I'm not saying that. I posted that to show people who sounded better on record.

But even that would be based on opinions.

smoothcriminal12 said:

TylerHippie said:

I'm not saying that. I posted that to show people who sounded better on record.

But even that would be based on opinions.

This whole thread is based on opinions.

TylerHippie said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

But even that would be based on opinions.

This whole thread is based on opinions.

not all, i try and seperate opinion from fact. and you can write MJ off for mimimg on stage as you couldn't consider someone the best vocalist if they mime on stage

some things can be measured by tanglible means. personal taste of vocal thus should be set aside. doing that, then no-one would ever consider MJ as the best. he's number 1 with madonna number 2 of the lipsynch crew that has the likes of britney in the list

people like prince, freddy and george michael played for years without lipsynching gigs

smoothcriminal12 said:

I'm done trying to label greatests and bests. It's all really subjective.

Not to mention pointless and boring.

unique said:

TylerHippie said:

This whole thread is based on opinions.

not all, i try and seperate opinion from fact. and you can write MJ off for mimimg on stage as you couldn't consider someone the best vocalist if they mime on stage

some things can be measured by tanglible means. personal taste of vocal thus should be set aside. doing that, then no-one would ever consider MJ as the best. he's number 1 with madonna number 2 of the lipsynch crew that has the likes of britney in the list

people like prince, freddy and george michael played for years without lipsynching gigs

I never said he didn't lipsynch. I perfer Prince instead Michael.

TylerHippie said:

MattyJam said:

Therefore they're both capable of doing something the other can't.

Your arrogance in this thread is laughable when this topic is so clearly subjective to personal taste and preference.

I prefer MJ's vocals because I find his voice more versatile. Freddie just belts it out like a powerhouse, Michael can do that but he can also sound heartbreakingly sincere and vulnerable. His voice is more emotive to my ears.

The fact that you compare Prince to either of them is a joke. Prince is no way near the league of Michael or Freddie as a vocalist. Not even close. I bet you'd have a hard time finding anyone outside of a Prince fanboard who'd rate him highly as a vocalist.

WTF!!!!

You need to listen to Queen early stuff. Because that comment is beyond ignorat.

Don't you love it when people spell ignorant wrong?!

Honestly some of your threads are like "Blah blah blah and this is based on my opinion but if you don't agree with it you're ignorant or I got better ears" or something. My inner is coming out again...But you do make me appreciate the ones who're actually VERY knowledgeable about music and still open-minded and humble on this website even more than I used to

RKJCNE said:

TylerHippie said:

RKJCNE said:

Don't you love it when people spell ignorant wrong?!

Wow, big deal. I for the "n"...

I'm guessing that's another typo?

Just saying if you are gonna hurl insults calling people stupid you might want to not come off as stupid.