I'm thinking in the lines of crossover mass appeal, the first to combine music and spectacle.

Elvis Presley's first hit was 1956? "Blue Suede Shoes"

The Beatles didn't hit until 1964.

I believe Bing Crosby was first (traditional pop), then Frank Sinatra (traditional pop).

As for MODERN POP, yeah you could say Elvis was the first one.

Timmy84 said:

I believe Bing Crosby was first (traditional pop), then Frank Sinatra (traditional pop).

Yep.

Timmy84 said:

I believe Bing Crosby was first (traditional pop), then Frank Sinatra (traditional pop).

As for MODERN POP, yeah you could say Elvis was the first one.

Really? I would have never thought of them. Seems too laid back and mellow to be pop stars. But they classify.

How about Bill Haley and the Comet's 1952 smash "Rock Around the Clock"?

RodeoSchro said:

How about Bill Haley and the Comet's 1952 smash "Rock Around the Clock"?

That was a real crossover success. I was amazed at how many European countries where it hit the top.

Bulldog said:

Timmy84 said:

I believe Bing Crosby was first (traditional pop), then Frank Sinatra (traditional pop).

As for MODERN POP, yeah you could say Elvis was the first one.

Really? I would have never thought of them. Seems too laid back and mellow to be pop stars. But they classify.

Bing & Frank were what was considered pop at that time, the same as Doris Day. Remember Elvis & Chuck Berry was called "Rhythm & Blues" or "Rock N' Roll" then or even "Rockabilly", not "pop". Pop during Elvis time was Frankie Avalon and Pat Boone.

Ummm...I think someone by the name of Little Richard would disagree with all of you. The spectacle that was/is Little Richard got Elvis beat by a year. Elvis's first pop hit was 1956 (before that he was strictly on the country chart). Richard's "Tutti-Frutti" was a pop, R&B, and international hit in 1955. And I don't think anyone mentioned in this thread, Elvis included, was doing any massive crossing over into the R&B charts or black America.

And no I'm not joking.

[Edited 1/19/11 14:47pm]

Chuck Berry's got a several months on Little Richard. But I don't think he was doing much charting internationally.

musicjunky318 said:

[photo of Ike Turner deleted]

And no I'm not joking.

[Edited 1/19/11 14:47pm]

Ike Turner had "crossover mass appeal"? Do tell. Plus, Ike & Tina's first crossover hit was 1960.

Not everyone would agree with this choice, but classical music was a lot more popular at one time, and Enrico Caruso was one of the first recording stars of the genre

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ico_Caruso

But I think Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra, or Louis Armstrong are good choices as well

therevolutionwillnotbe said:

Ummm...I think someone by the name of Little Richard would disagree with all of you. The spectacle that was/is Little Richard got Elvis beat by a year. Elvis's first pop hit was 1956 (before that he was strictly on the country chart). Richard's "Tutti-Frutti" was a pop, R&B, and international hit in 1955. And I don't think anyone mentioned in this thread, Elvis included, was doing any massive crossing over into the R&B charts or black America.

Actually, some of Elvis' pre army records were R&B hits and were popular with black audiences. At any rate Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra, Paul Robeson, Louie Armstrong, & Cab Calloway were performing long before Little Richard or Elvis came around and were very popular during their day.

[Edited 1/19/11 15:23pm]

therevolutionwillnotbe said:

Ummm...I think someone by the name of Little Richard would disagree with all of you. The spectacle that was/is Little Richard got Elvis beat by a year. Elvis's first pop hit was 1956 (before that he was strictly on the country chart). Richard's "Tutti-Frutti" was a pop, R&B, and international hit in 1955. And I don't think anyone mentioned in this thread, Elvis included, was doing any massive crossing over into the R&B charts or black America.

Actually Elvis, Jerry Lee, Carl Perkins and Bill Haley were on the R&B charts quite a lot, Elvis was on it so much I forgot the number, I believe it was 26.

[Edited 1/19/11 15:29pm]

Elvis' R&B hits:

Top 20 R&B Singles

I think Mickey's right though. Elvis, Richard and Chuck were never called pop artists initially and Elvis began to do pop in the sixties.

Pop music is such a blanket term nowadays.

[img:$uid]http://blogs.sun.com/vr/resource/LouisArmstrong.jpg[/img:$uid]

Even at the height of the Jim Crow era in the USA, THIS^ man had a fanbase of a pop star in the genre known as jazz.

[img:$uid]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/Wolfgang-amadeus-mozart_1-revert.jpg[/img:$uid]

And THIS^ man was a definite pop star in his days of classical.

Timmy84 said:

I believe Bing Crosby was first (traditional pop), then Frank Sinatra (traditional pop).

As for MODERN POP, yeah you could say Elvis was the first one.

POP has been redefined through the decades.. I mean back then Crosby and Sinatra were, at one point Elvis, at other times it was Elton and Billy Joel and Stevie Wonder and Barry Manilow and Neil Diamond then it was MJ and PRince and Madonna etc...then Mariah and Whitney and Celine and then Britney on to Rihanna and now Kesha and Katy Perry, times have changed huh?

And of course the Beatles and the Bee Gees in the mix too

[Edited 1/19/11 16:25pm]

lastdecember said:

Timmy84 said:

I believe Bing Crosby was first (traditional pop), then Frank Sinatra (traditional pop).

As for MODERN POP, yeah you could say Elvis was the first one.

POP has been redefined through the decades.. I mean back then Crosby and Sinatra were, at one point Elvis, at other times it was Elton and Billy Joel and Stevie Wonder and Barry Manilow and Neil Diamond then it was MJ and PRince and Madonna etc...then Mariah and Whitney and Celine and then Britney on to Rihanna and now Kesha and Katy Perry, times have changed huh?

And of course the Beatles and the Bee Gees in the mix too

[Edited 1/19/11 16:25pm]

I kinda agree. So what you're sayin is:

1940's - 10% Spectacle - 90% Talent

1950's - 30% Spectacle - 70% Talent

1960's - 40% Spectacle - 60% Talent

1970's - 50% Spectacle - 50% Talent

1980's - 70% Spectacle - 30% Talent

1990's - 80% Spectacle - 20% Talent

2000's - 95% Spectacle - 5% Talent

[Edited 1/19/11 16:34pm]

Bulldog said:

I kinda agree. So what you're sayin is:

1940's - 10% Spectacle - 90% Talent

1950's - 30% Spectacle - 70% Talent

1960's - 40% Spectacle - 60% Talent

1970's - 50% Spectacle - 50% Talent

1980's - 70% Spectacle - 30% Talent

1990's - 80% Spectacle - 20% Talent

2000's - 95% Spectacle - 5% Talent

That sounds about right to me.

lastdecember said:

Timmy84 said:

I believe Bing Crosby was first (traditional pop), then Frank Sinatra (traditional pop).

As for MODERN POP, yeah you could say Elvis was the first one.

POP has been redefined through the decades.. I mean back then Crosby and Sinatra were, at one point Elvis, at other times it was Elton and Billy Joel and Stevie Wonder and Barry Manilow and Neil Diamond then it was MJ and PRince and Madonna etc...then Mariah and Whitney and Celine and then Britney on to Rihanna and now Kesha and Katy Perry, times have changed huh?

And of course the Beatles and the Bee Gees in the mix too

[Edited 1/19/11 16:25pm]

THIS planet has gone from Wolfgang Mozart to Ke$ha....oops, I mean Ke$hit.

Let's face it, pop music has been losing some credibility for a while.

Bulldog said:

lastdecember said:

POP has been redefined through the decades.. I mean back then Crosby and Sinatra were, at one point Elvis, at other times it was Elton and Billy Joel and Stevie Wonder and Barry Manilow and Neil Diamond then it was MJ and PRince and Madonna etc...then Mariah and Whitney and Celine and then Britney on to Rihanna and now Kesha and Katy Perry, times have changed huh?

And of course the Beatles and the Bee Gees in the mix too

[Edited 1/19/11 16:25pm]

I kinda agree. So what you're sayin is:

1940's - 10% Spectacle - 90% Talent

1950's - 30% Spectacle - 70% Talent

1960's - 40% Spectacle - 60% Talent

1970's - 50% Spectacle - 50% Talent

1980's - 70% Spectacle - 30% Talent

1990's - 80% Spectacle - 20% Talent

2000's - 95% Spectacle - 5% Talent

[Edited 1/19/11 16:34pm]

Basically thats it, as MTV and videos were introduced it became more about your image and talent somewhat, at least early in the video age it was more on talent, i would say in the 80's it was a split because of what u had, when your POP scene is Madonna MJ and Prince, George Michael and Bruce Springsteen along with the pop stars of the 70's still recording, you had alot of talent going on even with the visuals. I think in the 90's looks really took over so i would say 80's were 50-50 and the 90's were 90-10 and now 95-5

TonyVanDam said:

THIS planet has gone from Wolfgang Mozart to Ke$ha....oops, I mean Ke$hit.

Let's face it, pop music has been losing some credibility for a while.

Pop music (in the USA at least) used to be "Coon" songs, blackface, and other types of minstrelsy. That's not much more credible.

MickyDolenz said:

TonyVanDam said:

THIS planet has gone from Wolfgang Mozart to Ke$ha....oops, I mean Ke$hit.

Let's face it, pop music has been losing some credibility for a while.

Pop music (in the USA at least) used to be "Coon" songs, blackface, and other types of minstrelsy. That's not much more credible.

Taco would strongly agree.

Al Jolson >Bing Crosby >Frank Sinatra>Elvis Presley, and you can debate the rest.

TonyVanDam said:

MickyDolenz said:

Pop music (in the USA at least) used to be "Coon" songs, blackface, and other types of minstrelsy. That's not much more credible.

Taco would strongly agree.

Was there more than one video for this? I've never noticed that before. I remember several songs in the 1980's had 2 different music videos.

TonyVanDam said:

[img:$uid]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/Wolfgang-amadeus-mozart_1-revert.jpg[/img:$uid]

And THIS^ man was a definite pop star in his days of classical.

Ok, so this what I thought, but others I have been talking to scoff at the idea that classical music was considered pop music in its day. I don't know if that that's the elitist in them talking, but they say that classical music was considered to be the music of the very rich and privileged. The more common music of the day was folk music.

Also, I just want to talk about how people are claiming that pop music of today seems to be in decline, because, if I remember correctly, pop music back in Elvis's day was considered to be 'not real music' too if I'm not mistaken. The same thing with jazz, the beat generation, and etc. I mean...isn't that how it usually goes? The older generation can't accept the new pop music and the younger ones reject the older stuff? Then, somewhere there's a revival of the old stuff and it just gets recycled again or something brand new comes out of it?

I mean we're going through a eruodance/trance/electro pop inspired era, but all of that was inspired by disco which, I believe, originated in America back in the 1970s no? Am I mistaken on this?

Timmy84 said:

RodeoSchro said:

How about Bill Haley and the Comet's 1952 smash "Rock Around the Clock"?

That was a real crossover success. I was amazed at how many European countries where it hit the top.

That song STILL rocks. The guitar solo is one of the greatest ever, IMO. And the second instrumental break also kicks butt.

Bulldog said:

I'm thinking in the lines of crossover mass appeal, the first to combine music and spectacle.

Elvis Presley's first hit was 1956? "Blue Suede Shoes"

The Beatles didn't hit until 1964.

most say elvis, but it was little richard just before him

blacks and whites attended his shows though this was a big no-no before, but they were still in seperate sections of the auditoriums he was selling out. I know chuck berry and others, like you guys mentioned may fit in the equation too from around the same time period, but it would slowly continue happening overtime, and then finally with MJ it skyrocketed like nothing the world had seen, cause the artists before him paved the way.

[Edited 1/20/11 7:12am]