BabyBeMine said:

My point of his nephew doesn't know the real him is his party side, or side where he does drink alcohol, he does get drunk. Did you hear what Jermaine said after MJ had passed? My brother doesnt drink....LOL....Perfect example of MJ keeps that away from them because if one brother knows, all of them will know. If a nephew knows im sure he would tell his pops...Uncle Mike is funny when he's drunk.....Thats my point and im not just meaning drinking

MJ showed his family a completely different side of him

How do you know any of this? Seriously...

Michaels own brothers thought he didnt drink and this is after he passed. So the nephews would have never spoke up by then

BabyBeMine said:

MJ was a undercover pimp who got his drank on with the right friends.

He showed his family this FAKE side of i only drink water and carrot juice. Dude was chasing women and getting faded in the back seat of the limo.

Sure, MJ put a front on to his family and not to his friends. That sounds so logical. Not. And MJ was an "undercover pimp who got his drank on" and was "chasing women and getting faded".

Because, you know, that's what men in their 40's with three young children tend to act like.

You honestly believe that shit, I've got a whole load of bottled air to sell you. It's a real bargain, honestly!

I had a feeling about this album , my panties weren't getting wet like the rest of you about it and with good reason. We better off bumping the old stuff folks...

Just like MJ shows the fans....His FAKE SIDE

But this is not a negative or me putting him down. Its MJ being a man who drinks, gets his buzz on and chases women.

About a year ago i had doubts about MJ's innocents and weather he really liked women. Well, i met and became friends with someone that you all know and MJ as he said....Kept a certain side of him away from his family such as his alcohol side...MJ has gotten drunk and passed out.... Does his nephew and brothers know this....doubt it.....MJ has gotten a yep yep....by a female in the backseet of the limo many times. Meaning they didnt go all the way but Mike was satisfied..i will stop right there.

Militant said:

BabyBeMine said:

MJ was a undercover pimp who got his drank on with the right friends.

He showed his family this FAKE side of i only drink water and carrot juice. Dude was chasing women and getting faded in the back seat of the limo.

Sure, MJ put a front on to his family and not to his friends. That sounds so logical. Not. And MJ was an "undercover pimp who got his drank on" and was "chasing women and getting faded".

Because, you know, that's what men in their 40's with three young children tend to act like.

You honestly believe that shit, I've got a whole load of bottled air to sell you. It's a real bargain, honestly!

Your in denial and why would you be upset. This actually made me be a fan again cause i was like daaaaaaamn i doubted if MJ was innocent when all along he was pimp daddy russell stady

In denial about what? I have no doubt that MJ liked to drink, party and fool around with women from time to time.... what's hilarious is that you think he'd lie about it to his family.....not even his siblings, but his nephews who most likely like to do the same things as most young men do. Come on, that's a stretch. I've smoked weed and drank and gambled etc with my own uncles, and when my nephews are teenagers in a few years time I have no doubt I'll do the same with them.

MJ had nothing to hide from his nephews, they have no reason to judge him. That's not how nephew/uncle relationships work. It's not like Taryll would run to Tito and say "hey we went out drinking with Uncle Michael and hit on some women" LOL. Even if he did, I doubt Tito would give a fuck.

Jermaine is a Muslim and very conservative. You can't paint the whole Jackson family by Jermaine's standards, seriously.

Iv'e known Jackie for years and he would always say in that soft voice..Michael doesnt drink and instead of telling him stories that i know id sit there and say...oh ok...but knowing the truth

Militant said:

In denial about what? I have no doubt that MJ liked to drink, party and fool around with women from time to time.... what's hilarious is that you think he'd lie about it to his family.....not even his siblings, but his nephews who most likely like to do the same things as most young men do. Come on, that's a stretch. I've smoked weed and drank and gambled etc with my own uncles, and when my nephews are teenagers in a few years time I have no doubt I'll do the same with them.

MJ had nothing to hide from his nephews, they have no reason to judge him. That's not how nephew/uncle relationships work. It's not like Taryll would run to Tito and say "hey we went out drinking with Uncle Michael and hit on some women" LOL. Even if he did, I doubt Tito would give a fuck.

Jermaine is a Muslim and very conservative. You can't paint the whole Jackson family by Jermaine's standards, seriously.

MJ trusted the Cascio's more than his own family. You do know that right? Michaels brothers were desperately wanting MJ to record with them. Why? Because the album would sell and they get a check. Michaels nephews when there careers began to fade they started asking MJ if he could produce there music and contribute more duets after the song "why".

Where are they now?

MJ felt more comfortable with the Cascio family than his own family....Outside of his sisters

BabyBeMine said:

My point is Michaels nephew dont know the real party side of MJ, or side where he does drink alcohol, he does get drunk. Did you hear what Jermaine said after MJ had passed? My brother doesnt drink....LOL....Perfect example of MJ keeps that away from them because if one brother knows, all of them will know. If a nephew knows im sure he would tell his pops...Uncle Mike is funny when he's drunk.....Thats my point and im not just meaning drinking

MJ showed his family a completely different side of him

[Edited 12/6/10 22:02pm]

This is not only true of Michael Jackson, but ALL OF US. We ALL show different sides of ourselves. The side you show to your mom is NOT the same side that you show to your lover. Not at all. Not only that, but people have a tendency to see things in the way that they relate to them. Ever watched the movie: Rashomon? Only one event happened, but all of the stories from the testimonies were painfully different. This is why I keep saying that you can't take one person's word verbatim is this is the eternal problem with 'witness testimony' at times. You will never get an objective truth. You will only get it the truth as it relates to the person who is telling it.

BabyBeMine said:

Iv'e known Jackie for years and he would always say in that soft voice..Michael doesnt drink and instead of telling him stories that i know id sit there and say...oh ok...but knowing the truth

Once again...... sibling relationships are not the same as nephew/niece/cousin relationships.

My take on it is that Jackie and Jermaine never escaped that "Jackson 5" clean cut image. They were both older than Michael and felt protective over him, and due to their conservative Jehovah's Witness upbringing and distrust of the media, of course they'll say things like that.

3T's relationship with Michael was much different. Even Janet's was due to the large age gap. I very much doubt Janet would say that Michael didn't drink etc etc.

There's a generational gap here that has different moral codes and ideas about what is right and wrong.... and the fame adds to that.

You can't compare the words and opinions of older siblings who were raised in a strict household before they became famous, to the younger generation who were raised very liberally and grew up in a wealthy environment of fame. It's like comparing apples to televisions. No comparison.

Take a look at your own family and how liberal you might be compared to the older generation.

Militant said:

There's more than enough material to do a few more albums without having to resort to doing a "duets" album.

The following all need an official release, perhaps with some minor tasteful remixing in certain cases:

Blue Gangster

Slave To The Rhythm

Do You Know

Strawberry Fields Forever

Al Capone

A Pretty Face Is (Duet with Stevie Wonder recorded for Stevie's "Characters" album)

Angel (recorded in 1988, written by Babyface, it has to be a finished song since it was scheduled for a compilation at one stage)

Bassouille (was considered for HIStory but didn't make the cut)

Belong 2 (was scheduled to be on Invincible but didn't make the final cut)

Bottle Of Smoke (recorded for Dangerous)

Do You Love Me (known to have been finished by MJ and Babyface)

Love Never Felt So Good

Eaten Alive (MJ vocal demo of the song later released by Diana Ross)

Get Around (finished for Invincible, didn't make the cut)

Groove Of Midnight

Hot Street

If You Don't Love Me

Serious Effect

Xscape

Maybe We Can Do It (recorded with P.Diddy for the Invincible album)

Men In Black

Michael McKellar

Nightline

On My Anger (recorded for Invincible)

Pressure

Rolling The Dice

Secret Passage

Seduction

Seven Digits

She's Trouble

There Must Be More To Life Than This (with Freddie Mercury)

This Is Our Time

Satisfy You

Victory

What You Do To Me

Work That Body

Innocent Man

Neverland Landing

and these are just SOME of the ones that we know about - there are undoubtedly many others that we don't know about including the ones done with RedOne and Will.I.Am (Will probably won't ever consent to releasing his stuff but RedOne might).

If we assume 10 songs per album, that's already 4 full albums right there, most of which are full completed songs or ones that could be finished in the same way that "Hollywood Tonight" and "Much Too Soon" were finished.

I just want all the demos and outtakes from 1978-1993.

Im more interested in the outtakes because I wanna see which songs were axed from the final selection of the albums.

Militant said:

BabyBeMine said:

Iv'e known Jackie for years and he would always say in that soft voice..Michael doesnt drink and instead of telling him stories that i know id sit there and say...oh ok...but knowing the truth

Once again...... sibling relationships are not the same as nephew/niece/cousin relationships.

My take on it is that Jackie and Jermaine never escaped that "Jackson 5" clean cut image. They were both older than Michael and felt protective over him, and due to their conservative Jehovah's Witness upbringing and distrust of the media, of course they'll say things like that.

3T's relationship with Michael was much different. Even Janet's was due to the large age gap. I very much doubt Janet would say that Michael didn't drink etc etc.

There's a generational gap here that has different moral codes and ideas about what is right and wrong.... and the fame adds to that.

You can't compare the words and opinions of older siblings who were raised in a strict household before they became famous, to the younger generation who were raised very liberally and grew up in a wealthy environment of fame. It's like comparing apples to televisions. No comparison.

Take a look at your own family and how liberal you might be compared to the older generation.

I have 2 nieces and 3 nephews and they all know uncle Kelly which is my name

Drinks at times and enjoys playing basketball. My nephew was the staring PG for artesia high school in 2009, but screwed up after that. Im on his ass everday, but my brother is his father so i hold back

One of my nieces is a actress and her husband played in Jeepers Creepers

BabyBeMine said:

I have 2 nieces and 3 nephews and they all know uncle Kelly which is my name

Drinks at times and enjoys playing basketball. My nephew was the staring PG for artesia high school in 2009, but screwed up after that. Im on his ass everday, but my brother is his father so i hold back

One of my nieces is a actress and her husband played in Jeepers Creepers

Can we call you 'Uncle Kelly' too?

[Edited 12/6/10 23:10pm]

Tito drinks and his own kids are gonna keep uncle Mike has a drink now and then from there own father. LOL

ummmm ok and your sounding like Oprah and its this BIG SECRET

So MJ for years pulled the nephews aside and was like....in his soft little voice..Tito must not know about this ok.

Your making MJ look worse to be honest

Honesltly if MJ pulled his nephews aside and said "dont tell " daddy" that i drink ok for 20 years.

Give this info to Oprah or someone who thought MJ was a pedophile.

Point is MJ never showed that side to his nephew or there father would know

I assume the track Mark Ronson was working on didn't make the cut?

I wonder how many other tracks were worked on.

ViintageJunkiie said:

Militant said:

There's more than enough material to do a few more albums without having to resort to doing a "duets" album.

The following all need an official release, perhaps with some minor tasteful remixing in certain cases:

Blue Gangster

Slave To The Rhythm

Do You Know

Strawberry Fields Forever

Al Capone

A Pretty Face Is (Duet with Stevie Wonder recorded for Stevie's "Characters" album)

Angel (recorded in 1988, written by Babyface, it has to be a finished song since it was scheduled for a compilation at one stage)

Bassouille (was considered for HIStory but didn't make the cut)

Belong 2 (was scheduled to be on Invincible but didn't make the final cut)

Bottle Of Smoke (recorded for Dangerous)

Do You Love Me (known to have been finished by MJ and Babyface)

Love Never Felt So Good

Eaten Alive (MJ vocal demo of the song later released by Diana Ross)

Get Around (finished for Invincible, didn't make the cut)

Groove Of Midnight

Hot Street

If You Don't Love Me

Serious Effect

Xscape

Maybe We Can Do It (recorded with P.Diddy for the Invincible album)

Men In Black

Michael McKellar

Nightline

On My Anger (recorded for Invincible)

Pressure

Rolling The Dice

Secret Passage

Seduction

Seven Digits

She's Trouble

There Must Be More To Life Than This (with Freddie Mercury)

This Is Our Time

Satisfy You

Victory

What You Do To Me

Work That Body

Innocent Man

Neverland Landing

and these are just SOME of the ones that we know about - there are undoubtedly many others that we don't know about including the ones done with RedOne and Will.I.Am (Will probably won't ever consent to releasing his stuff but RedOne might).

If we assume 10 songs per album, that's already 4 full albums right there, most of which are full completed songs or ones that could be finished in the same way that "Hollywood Tonight" and "Much Too Soon" were finished.

I just want all the demos and outtakes from 1978-1993.

Im more interested in the outtakes because I wanna see which songs were axed from the final selection of the albums.

Me too.

Don't know if anyone is an audiophile, but the FLAC version was just up'ed by someone out there who already received the CD...

[Edited 12/6/10 23:30pm]

Timmy84 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

I just want all the demos and outtakes from 1978-1993.

Im more interested in the outtakes because I wanna see which songs were axed from the final selection of the albums.

Me too.

Demos are cool, but i'm sure the majority of them are just mumbled lyrics with a complete hook (MJ always said when he recorded demos, he would mumble the lyrics but do a full hook, and if he doesnt like the hook, he doesnt finish the song)

Songs like Man in Black, Buffalo Bill, Victory...all complete songs that were mixed and mastered for albums...

Yeah, they had intervensions and thought he was a drug addict yet they didn't think he drank

Seriously, big difference from telling someone Michael doesn't drink to believing it

ViintageJunkiie said:

Timmy84 said:

Me too.

Demos are cool, but i'm sure the majority of them are just mumbled lyrics with a complete hook (MJ always said when he recorded demos, he would mumble the lyrics but do a full hook, and if he doesnt like the hook, he doesnt finish the song)

Songs like Man in Black, Buffalo Bill, Victory...all complete songs that were mixed and mastered for albums...

Right. I can imagine some of the demos sounding like full songs almost though.

WildStyle said:

Yeah, they had intervensions and thought he was a drug addict yet they didn't think he drank

Seriously, big difference from telling someone Michael doesn't drink to believing it

Like I said eons ago, the Jacksons are a weird bunch.

The first and last lyrics of this album are fucked up. "This life don't last forever" and "I guess I learned my lesson much too soon". Chilling. But the album is better than I expected. If you skip the Cascio tracks it's a really decent collection of songs. "Hollywood Tonight" is amazing. "(I Like) The Way You Love Me", which has always been a good song, is better now. "(I Can't Make It) Another Day" is as good listening to it now as the first time I heard a snippet of it, which seems like a year ago (was it that long ago?). And "Behind the Mask" is a dream come true. I've always loved that song and have always wanted to hear Michael's version of it. Better than I ever dreamed it would be. I love the sax. I haven't heard a good sax in a song since around the time "Behind the Mask" was written.

[Edited 12/7/10 0:07am]

Maybe MJ just cant sing soulful tracks that require range, falsetto for a long period which is why you feel some songs are fake. Hold My Hand he is singing in his regular voice, but not having to get down and get creative with it and soulful. The same with "way you love me" the track sounds good, but its his regular soft voice. He's not showing any range on the song.

Funny how on the track "Hollywod Tonight" he sounds great early when the song first comes on, but it seems like his voice at that age cant keep up without studdering. Listen again. His vocals start off great and when it gets to the point where he has to speed his vocals up.... STRUGGLE

MJ at that age could still sing slow songs, but when his voice had to speed up it was no where close to when he was younger which is probably why he delayed so many albums. Disappointed in his vocals and wanted to try and try again.

Young Mike....A couple of sessions and lets move to the next song

BabyBeMine said:

Maybe MJ just cant sing soulful tracks that require range, falsetto for a long period which is why you feel some songs are fake. Hold My Hand he is singing in his regular voice, but not having to get down and get creative with it and soulful. The same with "way you love me" the track sounds good, but its his regular soft voice. He's not showing any range on the song.

Funny how on the track "Hollywod Tonight" he sounds great early when the song first comes on, but it seems like his voice at that age cant keep up without studdering. Listen again. His vocals start off great and when it gets to the point where he has to speed his vocals up.... STRUGGLE

MJ at that age could still sing slow songs, but when his voice had to speed up it was no where close to when he was younger which is probably why he delayed so many albums. Disappointed in his vocals and wanted to try and try again.

Young Mike....A couple of sessions and lets move to the next song

I think his vocals are great in "Hollywood Tonight". His voice may not be as light and nimble as on "Off the Wall". But you've got to keep in mind that these are all unfinished songs. None of them were good to go, ready to be released with Michael's stamp of approval on them. Sony had to get producers in to put the finishing touches on all these tracks. That means they weren't finished. That means Michael had not yet recorded the vocal performance that would become the final product that gets released to the public. He had only recorded demonstration vocals (demo vocals) which are never perfect because they don't have to be. Btw, "Beautiful Girl" is a recentish song in which Michael sustains falsetto vocals well.

BabyBeMine said:

Militant said:

What the fuck are you babbling about? Taryll has tweeted 4 times in the past week.

Teddy Riley, on the other hand, has tweeted 36 times in the past HOUR and been on the most popular talk show in the country to discuss it.

Listen. Teddy has an agenda because he's getting work and getting paid. He's defending the tracks but not providing any substantial evidence, and he's not even stated that what Taryll is saying isn't the truth. It's all empty words - "I'm gonna post the whole truth on my blog". "I'm defending Michael and blah blah blah". "wait till the truth comes out", etc, etc.

Taryll on the other hand posted DIRECT quotes of what Teddy said to him about the tracks not being real, backed up with an anecdote about how Teddy was happy to get a real track (Hollywood Tonight) and even said the name of the studio they were at when this happened. He also has NO agenda. Tell me, what does he have to gain by lying? Is he just making up the quotes that he posted in his head? Well, I've watched many an interview with Taryll as he was a huge star here in the UK when "Brotherhood" came out, and he's a down to earth, level-headed, honest person. It shines through when you hear him talk. His demeanor is more like Michael than any other Jackson family member. Watch ANY interview with him and you'll immediately see what I'm talking about.

I'll tell you something else, straight up. I'm the son of two lawyers and if this little back and forth was going on in a hypothetical court, and I was defending Taryll's character and you were defending Teddy's........ you and Teddy would have got LAUGHED out of court a LONG time ago.

SMH at you saying "he talks too much" when he's made 4 tweets in a week and Teddy's made hundreds of them in the last few days. Wake the fuck up, seriously.

[Edited 12/6/10 21:23pm]

Teddy has to give interviews because he is one of the producers on the album and ppl want to ask questions about the controversy.

The media doesn't want to interview the former 1 hit wonder 3 t wanna be his uncle loser looking like a women in the why video. Nobody out here gives a rats ass about t 3 or whatever they names were. What are they doing now? Living in Michaels old room in Encino looking at old pics of MJ and Diana Ross when MJ went to the Forum....LMBAO....

You DO know where on Prince.org, right?

A site dedicated to a brotha who's spent his entire career rockin' lace, pants with his ass out, high heels, and full makeup....

just sayin'....

BabyBeMine said:

Honesltly if MJ pulled his nephews aside and said "dont tell " daddy" that i drink ok for 20 years.

Give this info to Oprah or someone who thought MJ was a pedophile.

Point is MJ never showed that side to his nephew or there father would know

Michael helped raise Taj, Taryll, and TJ. He was there for them even when their own father wasn't. Taj and Michael were working together before Michael passed. If I remember correctly, Taj was one of Michael's personal assistance. If there was ANYONE in the Jackson family, Michael trusted them along some of his other neices and nephews along with Joe's brother's sons who worked for him also

How can they NOT know the real Michael?

Militant said:

BabyBeMine said:

Teddy has to give interviews because he is one of the producers on the album and ppl want to ask questions about the controversy.

The media doesn't want to interview the former 1 hit wonder 3 t wanna be his uncle loser looking like a women in the why video. Nobody out here gives a rats ass about t 3 or whatever they names were. What are they doing now? Living in Michaels old room in Encino looking at old pics of MJ and Diana Ross when MJ went to the Forum....LMBAO....

ANY Jackson family member could call up Oprah and be on her show tomorrow if they wanted to.

1 hit wonder? Actually there were at least 5 hits from the Brotherhood album and it sold over 10 million.

Ironic that you say "looking like a woman".... uhhhh.... that's your best insult? We're talking about MICHAEL JACKSON, one of the most effeminate looking men of all time. Sorry, you lose.

You must know some strange looking women if you think THIS guy looks like a woman... maybe you need glasses.

Like I said, maybe 3T didn't sell records in the States.... but neither did Michael, post 1993. He felt the US abandoned him. HIStory and Blood On The Dancefloor did OK in the US, but were HUGE everywhere else. Invincible success was mostly outside of the US too.

I guess those records must all suck then, because apparently you can sell hundreds of millions of records around the world, but if no-one knows you in the US it doesn't matter. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. I doubt you'll find a single person here that agrees with you on this, so stop now, you're embarrasing yourself and sounding like a troll, to be honest.

What are they doing now? What does that have to do with ANYTHING? What's Jermaine doing now? What's Latoya doing now? What's Jackie doing now? What are you doing now? What is Teddy doing now, aside from having one song with Lady Gaga that sounds like a rehash of "No Diggity" from 15 years ago and making half assed plans to reform Guy and Blackstreet for the 10th time and tweeting 100 million times a day? What does any of that have to do with anything other than you making half-assed personal attacks on people you don't know that don't even relate to the subject at hand?

Do you have ANYTHING relevant to add to this conversation? Because you don't seem to.

Time to kick some knowledge to you young buck

Invincible sold 2.5 million in the USA. The track YRMW was a top 10 hit on Billboard hot 100 and Butterflies reached #2 on Billboard r&b/hip hop chart. Matter fact the songs MJ was competing with on the r&b chart were Ginuines song "Differences" and Usher's hit song at the time "U Got it Bad". Had it not been for Ushers song Butterflies would have been 1# for multiple weeks on the r&b and hip hop chart.

So MJ was still doing well in the USA. I think what you and some critics faill to understand is what they mean by FLOP...is by MJ standards. They dont mean by regular artist standards.

The artist currently on the hot 100 on Billboard. Have they sold 2.5 million in the USA?

Its kinda like Kobe Bryant...RIGHT NOW...Dude is not as explosive as before, but still gets the job done, yet the media favors the younster like Lebron and Wade.