suga10 said:

Swa said:

If it is the clip I think I saw a few weeks ago there are some pretty obvious credibility issues with what is being claimed. But each to their own.

As someone once said "if you listen to confusion long enough it starts to make sense".

There will always be conflicting opinions on This Is It - mostly driven by people's own projections.

Also as far as I am concerned when "unnamed sources" make claims you have to imagine they are either false or created by the writer and not an honest account. If someone is going to say something, then be man enough to put your name to it.

Yes but the person can get into major trouble if they violate a confidentiality agreement, if their name is openly disclosed.

All employees of major corporations have to sign contracts before working with them, about obeying company rules.

I mean I can understand why that person would want to keep themselves anonymous. Maybe he's keen on getting the information out to the public.

Why else do you think AEG became so insecure when Joe and Leonard came on to Larry King Live to blast them Remember how Joe was like- "they didn't want me near my son, because they knew that I would be watching their every move" or something like that

[Edited 9/4/10 17:56pm]

[Edited 9/4/10 17:58pm]

Maybe - but also remember Michael didn't want Joe near the show at all. Could you imagine Joe and Leonard running it - omg it would have been a disaster.

Joe wasn't involved in any of Michael's solo tours. The last tour he was involved in was the Victory tour, and we all know how much Michael despised how that was run from a business point of view.

For me I take solace in that Michael was pulling together his A-Team - of Branca and DiLeo. These were the guys who were there when Michael was at his peak, and they knew how to get him back there.

Well T-Mez said how Michael was skeptical of John Branca around 2003 during the trial.

So why would MJ even hire him back?

That's why this whole thing is so damn fishy.

And Sony is making a load of money off of Michael now.

And Peter Lopez was MJ's lawyer right before This is It Tour was announced.

And well Lopez died this year from a suicide, but who knows what caused his passing.

[Edited 9/4/10 18:38pm]

Swa said:

MyLuv229 said:

Damn. Michael is a hot 50 year old! that crotch grab is his best ever. Favorite scene in the movie

By the way, you're right about Kenny. I never noticed that before, but he is addressing Michael like a child... "go get some water" Michael also seems to be avoiding him as Kenny walks on stage.

How is Kenny pissed? When he walks onto the stage he is saying "church, church", basically saying "we have been schooled" and "testify" that what they have just witness is proof of the legend coming back. He is shaking his head in disbelief/awe not admonishing Michael. And as for "get some water", before it Michael is wiping sweat from his face and from behind his sunglasses so Kenny says / suggests "get some water".

It's funny that some people are seeing Kenny as being harsh on Michael. I think Kenny had a hard job here. He had to encourage Michael, help get his confidence back and at the same time still be the task master that would say ok lets do this lets do that. You'll also note that in the movie, there are several times when Kenny is calling Michael "Sir" and also suggesting they just do a lighting run through, or a sound check of a song and Michael is all "no we'll do it from the top" or he'll give a full run through of the song instead - a la Billie Jean.

Kenny isn't pissed. It was how he said "go get some water." Again, I'm not judging alone from this clip, but putting it in context of what I've learned about Kenny thus far and how he would address Michael at times. Again, we can't judge from the clips of the movie since it was editted for viewer entertainment. If you take into the account of the dancers (the link I posted before) and Karen, there seems to be more to Kenny. Others here have also mentioned specific scenes where Kenny would indirectly talk down on Michael.

You're right. He did have a tough job as did everyone on the set working with someone like Michael Jackson, but it hard to ignore the accounts of others that was given during the shoot.

Saw this posted on another board...

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Out of curiosity, I’ve searched for the girl who went on stage with Michael in ’92 (Dangerous tour Bucharest). It turns out that the girl is a different one than what is presented on the official Dangerous concert recording and…what I found out kind of saddened me. I translated the interview and you’ll see why:


Back in ’92, C.P. was a 16-year-old girl, madly in love with the American superstar. Now she’s married and the mother of a 10-year-old son:

“So you’ve been a MJ fan…”
Yes, I’ve been a MJ fan. I was 16 and was listening to everything Michael Jackson related.

“Are you still a fan?”
I’m not what you can call a fan anymore. I still like his music, but I can’t say that I’m as big of a fan as I once was.

“Why did you use to like him so much?”
I very much liked everything that he was doing, both music and dancing. I also liked the fact that he was a very charming and strong person and I think that these qualities situated him above other performers.

“How did you get to the concert?”
My parents gave me the money for the tickets and I remember running on the street, holding them. I bought tickets for me and a schoolmate. I was very happy and excited!

“Do you still have the ticket?”
No, I don’t know what happened to it.

“Where did you stay on the stadium? Right in the front row?”
Yes. Before the show, I was thinking how to get right next to the stage and I called my schoolmate and together we decided that we would be at the stadium at around 12 noon. The gates didn’t open until 5 pm, but, when they opened, we ran and took our places in the front row. I was the first to get there…

“How did you get on stage?”
…Before the “She’s out of my life” song, a few bodyguards were checking up every person in the front row. They passed by me, then they turned and asked me whether I wanted to go on stage with Michael a bit later. I told them that I surely wanted. They grabbed me and took me from the audience and they told me to wait for Michael’s sign, when the song started.

“And Michael called you…”
After he sang a few lines of the song, he turned to me, hold out his hand and called me.

“What did you feel right then? You must have been shaking all over…”
Do you think I knew what planet I was on? I didn’t know anything anymore. I didn’t feel myself shaking and I didn’t know where I was anymore. I just wanted to live the moment and to pay attention only to him…see how he looked like, hug him, tell him how much I liked him…that’s all that went through my mind then.

“And how did he look like, up close?”
He was normal. Nothing unusual. Nothing weird. He was an ok guy, medium height and his body was in shape. He was wearing stage makeup, but he was very handsome. I couldn’t find, at that point, any fault.

“Have you told him anything?”
I hugged him because that’s what I wanted the most. I remember that I touched his hair to see how it felt like. It felt very coarse. I told him I loved him. As I’ve told you, I was only 16…

“Has he answered that?”
Yes, yes. He told me he loved me too. I kissed his cheek, he caressed my hair, I remember that very well. He was caressing the back of my head. That felt very nice.

“Has anybody told you when to get off of the stage?”
Same as the first gesture, when he put out his hand to me, he gently pushed me away. Then, the bodyguard came and took me away.

“When you got back in the audience, what happened?”
That was the biggest problem. The bodyguards put me back, but not in my place. The crowd took me by storm, they were pulling my hair, my clothes and everything. They were probably very curious. I think they wanted to touch me because I had been so close to Michael.
….
“How long were you passionate about Michael Jackson?”
Eeeeeh…I was excited about him for about a year after that, then I went to another stage. I grew up, had other things on my mind, graduation, college, life in its usual course.

“What has this experience meant for you?”
Right now, it’s a memory very dear to me. I will cherish it forever. Back then, it was a teenager’s dream. Very nice.
“Have you ever wondered why you have been chosen to go on stage?”
That’s a difficult question…I don’t know why me. I think it was fate. It was meant to be. Everything in life happens for a reason. That was a happy experience for me and I’m glad I was one of the people who got close to Michael. I cried with emotion and happiness.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jackson 5 in the rehearsal studio in 1969

Michael looks like a cute baby!

"Michael is the natural show business personality"

suga10 said:

Well T-Mez said how Michael was skeptical of John Branca around 2003 during the trial.

So why would MJ even hire him back?

That's why this whole thing is so damn fishy.

And Sony is making a load of money off of Michael now.

And Peter Lopez was MJ's lawyer right before This is It Tour was announced.

And well Lopez died this year from a suicide, but who knows what caused his passing.

[Edited 9/4/10 18:38pm]

Sony's been making money off of Michael since 1976

bboy87 said:

suga10 said:

Well T-Mez said how Michael was skeptical of John Branca around 2003 during the trial.

So why would MJ even hire him back?

That's why this whole thing is so damn fishy.

And Sony is making a load of money off of Michael now.

And Peter Lopez was MJ's lawyer right before This is It Tour was announced.

And well Lopez died this year from a suicide, but who knows what caused his passing.

[Edited 9/4/10 18:38pm]

Sony's been making money off of Michael since 1976

MyLuv229 said:

Swa said:

How is Kenny pissed? When he walks onto the stage he is saying "church, church", basically saying "we have been schooled" and "testify" that what they have just witness is proof of the legend coming back. He is shaking his head in disbelief/awe not admonishing Michael. And as for "get some water", before it Michael is wiping sweat from his face and from behind his sunglasses so Kenny says / suggests "get some water".

It's funny that some people are seeing Kenny as being harsh on Michael. I think Kenny had a hard job here. He had to encourage Michael, help get his confidence back and at the same time still be the task master that would say ok lets do this lets do that. You'll also note that in the movie, there are several times when Kenny is calling Michael "Sir" and also suggesting they just do a lighting run through, or a sound check of a song and Michael is all "no we'll do it from the top" or he'll give a full run through of the song instead - a la Billie Jean.

Kenny isn't pissed. It was how he said "go get some water." Again, I'm not judging alone from this clip, but putting it in context of what I've learned about Kenny thus far and how he would address Michael at times. Again, we can't judge from the clips of the movie since it was editted for viewer entertainment. If you take into the account of the dancers (the link I posted before) and Karen, there seems to be more to Kenny. Others here have also mentioned specific scenes where Kenny would indirectly talk down on Michael.

You're right. He did have a tough job as did everyone on the set working with someone like Michael Jackson, but it hard to ignore the accounts of others that was given during the shoot.

Yes Kenny had a lot of pressure, but you know what. The matters was all in AEG hands. They were foolish to overbook that many shows to begin with. Michael was 50 years old, and they knew and they were taking a big risk by booking him for 50 shows, considering Michael hadn't performed a concert tour since 1997.

The preparation process shouldn't have been for 3 months considering the quality of shows Michael Jackson puts on. It should have been a far longer rehearsal time.

Do you know that Madonna's Sweet and Sticky Tour was announced in February 2008, but actually took placed in August 2008. She had six months to prepare for the tour, while Michael only had 3 months- since the tour was announced in March 2009. Isn't that a bit ridiculous of AEG to have given Michael such little time to rehearse? That just proves how terribly plan this concert series was.

[Edited 9/4/10 20:20pm]

[Edited 9/4/10 20:21pm]

This was too cute not to post!

Michael Jackson History Tour- Hawaii The only US based show of that whole tour Scream and TDCAU

[Edited 9/4/10 20:27pm]

[Edited 9/4/10 20:31pm]

It would have bee nice to have seen him continue sing Bad- ultimately he got rid of this from the setlist.

[img:$uid]http://mjjgallery.free.fr/dangerous/tour/bad/002.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://mjjgallery.free.fr/dangerous/tour/bad/003.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://mjjgallery.free.fr/dangerous/tour/bad/004.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://mjjgallery.free.fr/dangerous/tour/bad/008.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://mjjgallery.free.fr/dangerous/tour/bad/010.jpg[/img:$uid]

such a beautiful man

Dangerous- Dangerous Tour 1992

[img:$uid]http://mjjgallery.free.fr/dangerous/tour/dangerous/003.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://mjjgallery.free.fr/dangerous/tour/dangerous/002.jpg[/img:$uid]

History Tour Backstage

[img:$uid]http://mjjgallery.free.fr/history/tour/backstage/001.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://mjjgallery.free.fr/history/tour/backstage/010.jpg[/img:$uid]

He sure had some ass that time

[img:$uid]http://mjjgallery.free.fr/history/tour/backstage/012.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://mjjgallery.free.fr/history/awards/wettendass/026.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://media.sawfnews.com/images/Entertainment/Hrithik_Roshan_Barbara_Mori_Michael_JacksonC.jpg[/img:$uid]

[Edited 9/4/10 21:40pm]

This post is in reply to those people who say that Kenny Ortega talked harsh to Michael on footage from the This Is It movie. My question is "Where the fuck did this happen in the movie?" I saw TII twice in at the theater and have seen it many times on the DVD. NOWHERE in ANY footage did Kenny talk down or harsh to Michael. In fact, Kenny seemed to be totally in awe of Michael and showed nothing but the utmost respect and reverence to MJ. It was clear that Michael was TOTALLY in charge of everything that was happening on that stage, and in production. Kenny knew who was boss and that was the way he talked to Michael and not the other way around. Kenny made no decisions without Michael. As far as these supposed fans who overheard this, I say bullshit. I don't believe a word of this hearsay. Even with editing, there was no doubt who was in charge and that was Michael Jackson.

[Edited 9/4/10 21:49pm]

I'm doing some more designs and banners for The Michael Jacksn Archives and Michael Jackson Onstage so hopefully you guys will see some updates soon

if anyone hasn't checked out the sites here they are

http://www.michael-jackson-on-stage.com

http://www.the-michael-jackson-archives.com

What a biased media report. Blame it all on MJ

President Reagan and Michael

Pres. George Bush Senior and Michael

President Clinton introducing Michael at the Apollo 02

Regarding Sony making a lot of money off Michael now - well yes I am sure they are, but the people making the most off of Michael are the benefitiaries of the Estate - his children, his mother, and charity.

Maybe the conspiracy theorists would argue his kids and Mum got together to hatch a plan to kill him. It's all ridiculous.

AEG had more to gain from a successful 50 show tour and then rollout world tour over 2 years.

Michael had more to gain from a successful 50 show tour both in financial terms and in esteem placed back in his career and talent.

Anyone who thinks Michael couldn't perform 50 shows over 9 months (including a 3 month break) is kidding themselves. Would there have been some shows cancelled - most likely but that happens with any tour over a long period of time - but those shows would have been rescheduled.

The benefit of the residency gig at O2 was it gave Michael a base, and limit the gruel of travelling.

Sony didn't have anything to gain from Michael's death in terms of the ATV publishing, as clearly the income generated into the estate has gone to pay off the loan and further protect his holding.

The truth is, Michael died tragically and unexpectantly. This tragedy is further amplified because he was on the cusp of reminding the world of his brilliance again.

As a wise man once said "be careful... when the lie becomes the truth".

He´s so funny dancing sitting in the audience.

suga10 said:

Swa said:

If it is the clip I think I saw a few weeks ago there are some pretty obvious credibility issues with what is being claimed. But each to their own.

As someone once said "if you listen to confusion long enough it starts to make sense".

There will always be conflicting opinions on This Is It - mostly driven by people's own projections.

Also as far as I am concerned when "unnamed sources" make claims you have to imagine they are either false or created by the writer and not an honest account. If someone is going to say something, then be man enough to put your name to it.

Yes but the person can get into major trouble if they violate a confidentiality agreement, if their name is openly disclosed.

All employees of major corporations have to sign contracts before working with them, about obeying company rules.

I mean I can understand why that person would want to keep themselves anonymous. Maybe he's keen on getting the information out to the public.

Why else do you think AEG became so insecure when Joe and Leonard came on to Larry King Live to blast them. Remember how Joe was like- "they didn't want me near my son, because they knew that I would be watching their every move" or something like that Why was AEG watching Larry King Live, if they knew Joe was talking bullshit.

And in no way am I say Joe and Rowe are perfect, but they have a point here.

[Edited 9/4/10 17:56pm]

[Edited 9/4/10 17:58pm]

[Edited 9/4/10 18:03pm]

[Edited 9/4/10 18:05pm]

MOL said:

suga10 said:

Yes but the person can get into major trouble if they violate a confidentiality agreement, if their name is openly disclosed.

All employees of major corporations have to sign contracts before working with them, about obeying company rules.

I mean I can understand why that person would want to keep themselves anonymous. Maybe he's keen on getting the information out to the public.

Why else do you think AEG became so insecure when Joe and Leonard came on to Larry King Live to blast them. Remember how Joe was like- "they didn't want me near my son, because they knew that I would be watching their every move" or something like that Why was AEG watching Larry King Live, if they knew Joe was talking bullshit.

And in no way am I say Joe and Rowe are perfect, but they have a point here.

[Edited 9/4/10 17:56pm]

[Edited 9/4/10 17:58pm]

[Edited 9/4/10 18:03pm]

[Edited 9/4/10 18:05pm]

Whoever believes a word Rowe or Joe say is just as idiotic as them. Suga; you're fooling no one. The same way Joe and Rowe are fooling no one. And you're right: they're not perfect. In fact, they are as imperfect as humanly possible. They're hounding leeches and, if there is anyone who wanted to exploit Michael, is those two. If there is anyone who contributed to Michael's death aside from Murray, are those two. If there is anyone who was making Michael's life a living hell, it was those two. But now that he died, they re-wrote their agenda while portraying the "good guys". Swa: Michael asked AEG to protect him from his father. It's known that both Rowe and Joe were hunting Michael, so he decided to keep them way. He cut contact with them...he wanted NOTHING to do with them and he surely knew what they wanted. Obviously, Joe wants the public to believe his version of the story: AEG is bad and he just wanted to save Michael from high positioned racist people who wanted to exploit his son.

MOL said:

suga10 said:

Yes but the person can get into major trouble if they violate a confidentiality agreement, if their name is openly disclosed.

All employees of major corporations have to sign contracts before working with them, about obeying company rules.

I mean I can understand why that person would want to keep themselves anonymous. Maybe he's keen on getting the information out to the public.

Why else do you think AEG became so insecure when Joe and Leonard came on to Larry King Live to blast them. Remember how Joe was like- "they didn't want me near my son, because they knew that I would be watching their every move" or something like that Why was AEG watching Larry King Live, if they knew Joe was talking bullshit.

And in no way am I say Joe and Rowe are perfect, but they have a point here.

[Edited 9/4/10 17:56pm]

[Edited 9/4/10 17:58pm]

[Edited 9/4/10 18:03pm]

[Edited 9/4/10 18:05pm]

Whoever believes a word Rowe or Joe say is just as idiotic as them. Suga; you're fooling no one. The same way Joe and Rowe are fooling no one. And you're right: they're not perfect. In fact, they are as imperfect as humanly possible. They're hounding leeches and, if there is anyone who wanted to exploit Michael, is those two. If there is anyone who contributed to Michael's death aside from Murray, are those two. If there is anyone who was making Michael's life a living hell, it was those two. But now that he died, they re-wrote their agenda while portraying the "good guys". Swa: Michael asked AEG to protect him from his father. It's known that both Rowe and Joe were hunting Michael, so he decided to keep them way. He cut contact with them...he wanted NOTHING to do with them and he surely knew what they wanted. Obviously, Joe wants the public to believe his version of the story: AEG is bad and he just wanted to save Michael from high positioned racist people who wanted to exploit his son.

You behave as if Michael was still hating Joe. He forgave him. Do you realize that? He even praised Joe on the interview he did with Geraldo

Michael Jackson talks about forgiving his father- Oxford Speech 2001

Holding his dad's hand during the trial.

[img:$uid]http://www.michaeljacksonsecrets.com/wp-content/uploads/joe-jackson-denied-access-to-oktoberfest.jpg[/img:$uid]

http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/story/michael-jackson-begged-for-dad_1112380

Michael's speech about Joe in Oxford University- 2001

http://www.michaeljackson.com/cn/node/93244

[Edited 9/5/10 8:02am]

[Edited 9/5/10 8:08am]

suga10 said:

Michael's speech about Joe in Oxford University- 2001

http://www.michaeljackson.com/cn/node/93244

And when I think about this, of how I hope that my children will not judge me unkindly, and will forgive my shortcomings, I am forced to think of my own father and despite my earlier denials, I am forced to admit that me must have loved me. He did love me, and I know that. There were little things that showed it. When I was a kid I had a real sweet tooth - we all did. My favourite food was glazed doughnuts and my father knew that. So every few weeks I would come downstairs in the morning and there on the kitchen counter was a bag of glazed doughnuts - no note, no explanation - just the doughnuts. It was like Santa Claus. Sometimes I would think about staying up late at night, so I could see him leave them there, but just like with Santa Claus, I didn't want to ruin the magic for fear that he would never do it again. My father had to leave them secretly at night, so as no one might catch him with his guard down. He was scared of human emotion, he didn't understand it or know how to deal with it. But he did know doughnuts. And when I allow the floodgates to open up, there are other memories that come rushing back, memories of other tiny gestures, however imperfect, that showed that he did what he could. So tonight, rather than focusing on what my father didn't do, I want to focus on all the things he did do and on his own personal challenges. I want to stop judging him. I have started reflecting on the fact that my father grew up in the South, in a very poor family. He came of age during the Depression and his own father, who struggled to feed his children, showed little affection towards his family and raised my father and his siblings with an iron fist. Who could have imagined what it was like to grow up a poor black man in the South, robbed of dignity, bereft of hope, struggling to become a man in a world that saw my father as subordinate. I was the first black artist to be played on MTV and I remember how big a deal it was even then. And that was in the 80s! My father moved to Indiana and had a large family of his own, working long hours in the steel mills, work that kills the lungs and humbles the spirit, all to support his family. Is it any wonder that he found it difficult to expose his feelings? Is it any mystery that he hardened his heart, that he raised the emotional ramparts? And most of all, is it any wonder why he pushed his sons so hard to succeed as performers, so that they could be saved from what he knew to be a life of indignity and poverty? I have begun to see that even my father's harshness was a kind of love, an imperfect love, to be sure, but love nonetheless. He pushed me because he loved me. Because he wanted no man ever to look down at his offspring. And now with time, rather than bitterness, I feel blessing. In the place of anger, I have found absolution. And in the place of revenge I have found reconciliation. And my initial fury has slowly given way to forgiveness. Almost a decade ago, I founded a charity called Heal the World. The title was something I felt inside me. Little did I know, as Shmuley later pointed out, that those two words form the cornerstone of Old Testament prophecy. Do I really believe that we can heal this world, that is riddled with war and genocide, even today? And do I really think that we can heal our children, the same children who can enter their schools with guns and hatred and shoot down their classmates, like they did at Columbine? Or children who can beat a defenceless toddler to death, like the tragic story of Jamie Bulger? Of course I do, or I wouldn't be here tonight. But it all begins with forgiveness, because to heal the world, we first have to heal ourselves. And to heal the kids, we first have to heal the child within, each and every one of us. As an adult, and as a parent, I realise that I cannot be a whole human being, nor a parent capable of unconditional love, until I put to rest the ghosts of my own childhood. And that's what I'm asking all of us to do tonight. Live up to the fifth of the Ten Commandments. Honour your parents by not judging them. Give them the benefit of the doubt. That is why I want to forgive my father and to stop judging him. I want to forgive my father, because I want a father, and this is the only one that I've got. I want the weight of my past lifted from my shoulders and I want to be free to step into a new relationship with my father, for the rest of my life, unhindered by the goblins of the past. In a world filled with hate, we must still dare to hope. In a world filled with anger, we must still dare to comfort. In a world filled with despair, we must still dare to dream. And in a world filled with distrust, we must still dare to believe. To all of you tonight who feel let down by your parents, I ask you to let down your disappointment. To all of you tonight who feel cheated by your fathers or mothers, I ask you not to cheat yourself further. And to all of you who wish to push your parents away, I ask you to extend you hand to them instead. I am asking you, I am asking myself, to give our parents the gift of unconditional love, so that they too may learn how to love from us, their children. So that love will finally be restored to a desolate and lonely world.

[Edited 9/5/10 8:02am]

[Edited 9/5/10 8:08am]

suga10 said:

MOL said:

Whoever believes a word Rowe or Joe say is just as idiotic as them. Suga; you're fooling no one. The same way Joe and Rowe are fooling no one. And you're right: they're not perfect. In fact, they are as imperfect as humanly possible. They're hounding leeches and, if there is anyone who wanted to exploit Michael, is those two. If there is anyone who contributed to Michael's death aside from Murray, are those two. If there is anyone who was making Michael's life a living hell, it was those two. But now that he died, they re-wrote their agenda while portraying the "good guys". Swa: Michael asked AEG to protect him from his father. It's known that both Rowe and Joe were hunting Michael, so he decided to keep them way. He cut contact with them...he wanted NOTHING to do with them and he surely knew what they wanted. Obviously, Joe wants the public to believe his version of the story: AEG is bad and he just wanted to save Michael from high positioned racist people who wanted to exploit his son.

You behave as if Michael was still hating Joe. He forgave him. Do you realize that? He even praised Joe on the interview he did with Geraldo

Michael Jackson talks about forgiving his father- Oxford Speech 2001

Holding his dad's hand during the trial.

[img:$uid]http://www.michaeljacksonsecrets.com/wp-content/uploads/joe-jackson-denied-access-to-oktoberfest.jpg[/img:$uid]

http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/story/michael-jackson-begged-for-dad_1112380

[Edited 9/5/10 7:04am]

[Edited 9/5/10 7:55am]

[Edited 9/5/10 8:00am]

As much as I'd like to believe Michael "forgave" his father,

after reading "The Michael Jackson Tapes" and hearing the

audio from them, I can't believe it was all just water under

the bridge. It was a "both-and." Michael both appreciated

his father management and he still was hurt from being

used, abused, and neglected. There was a reason Joe

was left completely out of Michael's will (and that was

AFTER the Oxford Speech.) By all accounts, Michael

still wanted his father far away from him around the

time of his passing, and when he had to be around him,

he wanted it to be in a controlled environment.

(I'm just assuming Joe was involved in the Jackson

family days that they did frequently, but who knows)

Part of me connects with Michael so much, because

I know what it is like to have family members who

should love you unconditionally, but instead, try

to use you and take you for granted. To look at

someone who is supposed to be family as "what

can I get out of them" is wrong on so many levels...

and sorry to the fans who wanna believe The Jacksons

were some Brady Bunch family keep watching your

DVD of "The Jacksons: An American Dream" - in REALITY

though, the way MJ was treated by his dad, and actually

most of his "family" is sickening. Greed x10000.

It is so sad that Michael's real only family was his mom,

and his kids. He deserved so much better than that.

Vanilli said:

As much as I'd like to believe Michael "forgave" his father,

after reading "The Michael Jackson Tapes" and hearing the

audio from them, I can't believe it was all just water under

the bridge. It was a "both-and." Michael both appreciated

his father management and he still was hurt from being

used, abused, and neglected. There was a reason Joe

was left completely out of Michael's will (and that was

AFTER the Oxford Speech.) By all accounts, Michael

still wanted his father far away from him around the

time of his passing, and when he had to be around him,

he wanted it to be in a controlled environment.

(I'm just assuming Joe was involved in the Jackson

family days that they did frequently, but who knows)

Part of me connects with Michael so much, because

I know what it is like to have family members who

should love you unconditionally, but instead, try

to use you and take you for granted. To look at

someone who is supposed to be family as "what

can I get out of them" is wrong on so many levels...

and sorry to the fans who wanna believe The Jacksons

were some Brady Bunch family keep watching your

DVD of "The Jacksons: An American Dream" - in REALITY

though, the way MJ was treated by his dad, and actually

most of his "family" is sickening. Greed x10000.

It is so sad that Michael's real only family was his mom,

and his kids. He deserved so much better than that.

I agree with every word. And in michael's case it was forgiving but not forgetting cause of the strain. He was an adult, not a 10 year old child who HAD to cling on to Joe 24 hours like he was trying to do to get money out of son in the end too. Before we knew details of the death and heard heart attack, I thought all these lawsuits, health issues etc. just took a toll on him and killed him

[Edited 9/5/10 8:27am]