babybugz said:

*Trying to read the pages since I left* You all had a free for all in here huh

People arguing to cope with the loss... or at least that's what someone said.

I was just trying to keep it real.

Timmy84 said:

babybugz said:

*Trying to read the pages since I left* You all had a free for all in here huh

People arguing to cope with the loss... or at least that's what someone said.

I was just trying to keep it real.

I'm tired of talking about MJ's death now. I just want to talk about the music now. MOL needs to cut it out now.

[Edited 8/25/10 16:04pm]

Militant. Mili-Mili, Yes. Legally it is forbidden to book shows for your client (mainly when there was a contract, a priori) without his/her consent. You know how "the shit" works? And I have more than two brain cells. I'm no artist; I'm a future doctor but one thing is to be in the business, another is to live this fairytale conspiracy. Try the first.

Nope. I'm not essentially saying ANYTHING. If you read the contract (you can find it on ET) you'll see that there is a limit of shows (50). If AEG was so desperate to push Michael...why didn't they made him perform in 85 concerts which is what they initially wanted? Hell, if they puhed him so much, why didn't they force Michael to do 85 shows? AEG directors, at one point, asked Michael if he wanted to do 85 shows. Why, instead of asking (the meanies!), didn't they plain and simple force him to do 85 shows?

Michael was a shrewd businessman. There are many accounts of that. It is a well known fact. Do you really think that a man who has 45 years of career under his belt would be deceived in such a simple a way? Don't you think he hum....actually read the contract? Or was Michael an erratic illetrate?

Look, had AEG added more shows without Michael's consent and there would be a high probability of them being sued or being vulnerable to such. I don't think (but I'm just a crappy future doctor...shall you enlighten me, artist?) AEG would risk its reputation by deceiving the most famous person on Earth. Had Michael sued them and AEG would have been starring in pejorative headlines after pejorative headlines, in every corner of the world, which would taint its image.

Honey: I have Propedeutic to study (I know artists like you are so good that there is no need to do so but future doctors, those meanies, have to). Go to ET and read the "fraudulent" contract.

For instance, in what way EXACTLY, did AEG act "shadily"? AEG have worked with thousands of artists and not even one complained. Besides, AEG is an amazingly rich company...why would they cheat Michael? Why exactly are those valid feelings? IN what way? Why ignore evidence?

Michael himself never said anything.

"People on this forum saw a YouTube video of him saying it."- Who are you trying to fool? Whom, to be more precise? There was only ONE person who claimed to have seen such video. Curiously, it's the same person who is claiming with all certainty that Michael is alive. It's the same person who is repeating EVERYTHING the likes of Latoya and Oxman have said. It's the same person who is claiming absolutely delusional things. It's the same person who swears to God Tohme Tohme signed the TII contract for Michael. The same person who claims Tohme Tohme pushed "pissed and forced looking" Michael to the stage to announce the TII shows. The same person who is grasping at straws to, with absolutely delusional and even laughable arguments, make it seem as if Michael was a deadman walking. Just read Suga's posts and you'll know what I'm talking about. Ad Hominem. Only one person claimed that and that one person has ZERO credibility (just read her/his other posts). The only person who "saw" the video is the person who has been caught lying, plain and simple, more than just a dozen times. Again: who are you trying to fool?

Mili-Mili: Joe is just a victim. Look at what he, Rowe and Oxman have been doing, on a daily basis, since the day Michael told them to get lost. Look at what those three did just 2 hours after Michael's death was announced. Look at what those guys have been doing since the 25th of June. They're just victims, right? The world hates Joe for no apparent reason. Poor man!

I'm not the only person who thinks AEG has absolutely nothing to do with MJ's death. Just ask fans who actually know something about all this.

Exactly. What unearthly demon would dare to point the finger at Joe after all he has been doing since his beloved son died! Do you even know half of what Joe has been doing, Militant? Half?

Joe is nothing but a loving father. Michael owes his career to him, OK?!

But I'm just a hater, isn't it?

[Edited 8/25/10 16:19pm]

[Edited 8/25/10 16:08pm]

Timmy84 said:

babybugz said:

*Trying to read the pages since I left* You all had a free for all in here huh

People arguing to cope with the loss... or at least that's what someone said.

I was just trying to keep it real.

suga10 said:

Timmy84 said:

People arguing to cope with the loss... or at least that's what someone said.

I was just trying to keep it real.

I'm tired of talking about MJ's death now. I just want to talk about the music now. MOL needs to cut it out now.

[Edited 8/25/10 16:04pm]

Now that things don't look pretty to your side, you suddenly want to stop talking about Michael's death. Now that every single one of your arguments has been shot down, one by one, you want to talk about Michael's music. Curious. MOL stops when MOL wants to stop, honey.

[Edited 8/25/10 16:16pm]

MOL said:

Militant. Mili-Mili, Yes. Legally it is forbidden to book shows for your client (mainly when there was a contract, a priori) without his/her consent. You know how "the shit" works? And I have more than two brain cells. I'm no artist; I'm a future doctor but one thing is to be in the business, another is to live this fairytale conspiracy. Try the first.

Nope. I'm not essentially saying ANYTHING. If you read the contract (you can find it on ET) you'll see that there is a limit of shows (50). If AEG was so desperate to push Michael...why didn't they made him perform in 85 concerts which is what they initially wanted? Hell, if they puhed him so much, why didn't they force Michael to do 85 shows? AEG directors, at one point, asked Michael if he wanted to do 85 shows. Why, instead of asking (the meanies!), didn't they plain and simple force him to do 85 shows?

Michael was a shrewd businessman. There are many accounts of that. It is a well known fact. Do you really think that a man who has 45 years of career under his belt would be deceived in such a simple a way? Don't you think he hum....actually read the contract? Or was Michael an erratic illetrate?

Look, had AEG added more shows without Michael's consent and there would be a high probability of them being sued or being vulnerable to such. I don't think (but I'm just a crappy future doctor...shall you enlighten me, artist?) AEG would risk its reputation by deceiving the most famous person on Earth. Had Michael sued them and AEG would have been starring in pejorative headlines after pejorative headlines, in every corner of the world, which would taint its image.

Honey: I have Propedeutic to study (I know artists like you are so good that there is no need to do so but future doctors, those meanies, have to). Go to ET and read the "fraudulent" contract.

For instance, in what way EXACTLY, did AEG act "shadily"? AEG have worked with thousands of artists and not even one complained. Besides, AEG is an amazingly rich company...why would they cheat Michael? Why exactly are those valid feelings? IN what way? Why ignore evidence?

Michael himself never said anything.

"People on this forum saw a YouTube video of him saying it."- Who are you trying to fool? Whom, to be more precise? There was only ONE person who claimed to have seen such video. Curiously, it's the same person who is claiming with all certainty that Michael is alive. It's the same person who is repeating EVERYTHING the likes of Latoya and Oxman have said. It's the same person who is claiming absolutely delusional things. It's the same person who swears to God Tohme Tohme signed the TII contract for Michael. The same person who claims Tohme Tohme pushed "pissed and forced looking" Michael to the stage to announce the TII shows. The same person who is grasping at straws to, with absolutely delusional and even laughable arguments, make it seem as if Michael was a deadman walking. Just read Suga's posts and you'll know what I'm talking about. Ad Hominem. Only one person claimed that and that one person has ZERO credibility (just read her/his other posts). Again: who are you trying to fool?

Mili-Mili: Joe is just a victim. Look at what he, Rowe and Oxman have been doing, on a daily basis, since the day Michael told them to get lost. Look at what those three did just 2 hours after Michael's death was announced. Look at what those guys have been doing since the 25th of June. They're just victims, right? The world hates Joe for no apparent reason. Poor man!

I'm not the only person who thinks AEG has absolutely nothing to do with MJ's death. Just ask fans who actually know something about all this.

Michael could come back as a freakin' ghost and tell the world that he holds AEG responsible for his death and you'd find a way to say it was bullshit and actually we should blame Joe Jackson.

Exactly. What unearthly demon would dare to point the finger at Joe after all he has been doing since his beloved son died! Do you even know half of what Joe has been doing, Militant? Half?

Joe is nothing but a loving father. Michael owes his career to him, OK?!

But I'm just a hater, isn't it?

[Edited 8/25/10 16:13pm].

My last point to you now- MJ was a smart businessman years ago when he was at the peak of his career. Since the child abuse allegations in 2003 and the trial- it more easy for people to take more advantage of him than ever!

[Edited 8/25/10 16:24pm]

suga10 said:

MOL said:

Militant. Mili-Mili, Yes. Legally it is forbidden to book shows for your client (mainly when there was a contract, a priori) without his/her consent. You know how "the shit" works? And I have more than two brain cells. I'm no artist; I'm a future doctor but one thing is to be in the business, another is to live this fairytale conspiracy. Try the first.

Nope. I'm not essentially saying ANYTHING. If you read the contract (you can find it on ET) you'll see that there is a limit of shows (50). If AEG was so desperate to push Michael...why didn't they made him perform in 85 concerts which is what they initially wanted? Hell, if they puhed him so much, why didn't they force Michael to do 85 shows? AEG directors, at one point, asked Michael if he wanted to do 85 shows. Why, instead of asking (the meanies!), didn't they plain and simple force him to do 85 shows?

Michael was a shrewd businessman. There are many accounts of that. It is a well known fact. Do you really think that a man who has 45 years of career under his belt would be deceived in such a simple a way? Don't you think he hum....actually read the contract? Or was Michael an erratic illetrate?

Look, had AEG added more shows without Michael's consent and there would be a high probability of them being sued or being vulnerable to such. I don't think (but I'm just a crappy future doctor...shall you enlighten me, artist?) AEG would risk its reputation by deceiving the most famous person on Earth. Had Michael sued them and AEG would have been starring in pejorative headlines after pejorative headlines, in every corner of the world, which would taint its image.

Honey: I have Propedeutic to study (I know artists like you are so good that there is no need to do so but future doctors, those meanies, have to). Go to ET and read the "fraudulent" contract.

For instance, in what way EXACTLY, did AEG act "shadily"? AEG have worked with thousands of artists and not even one complained. Besides, AEG is an amazingly rich company...why would they cheat Michael? Why exactly are those valid feelings? IN what way? Why ignore evidence?

Michael himself never said anything.

"People on this forum saw a YouTube video of him saying it."- Who are you trying to fool? Whom, to be more precise? There was only ONE person who claimed to have seen such video. Curiously, it's the same person who is claiming with all certainty that Michael is alive. It's the same person who is repeating EVERYTHING the likes of Latoya and Oxman have said. It's the same person who is claiming absolutely delusional things. It's the same person who swears to God Tohme Tohme signed the TII contract for Michael. The same person who claims Tohme Tohme pushed "pissed and forced looking" Michael to the stage to announce the TII shows. The same person who is grasping at straws to, with absolutely delusional and even laughable arguments, make it seem as if Michael was a deadman walking. Just read Suga's posts and you'll know what I'm talking about. Ad Hominem. Only one person claimed that and that one person has ZERO credibility (just read her/his other posts). Again: who are you trying to fool?

Mili-Mili: Joe is just a victim. Look at what he, Rowe and Oxman have been doing, on a daily basis, since the day Michael told them to get lost. Look at what those three did just 2 hours after Michael's death was announced. Look at what those guys have been doing since the 25th of June. They're just victims, right? The world hates Joe for no apparent reason. Poor man!

I'm not the only person who thinks AEG has absolutely nothing to do with MJ's death. Just ask fans who actually know something about all this.

Exactly. What unearthly demon would dare to point the finger at Joe after all he has been doing since his beloved son died! Do you even know half of what Joe has been doing, Militant? Half?

Joe is nothing but a loving father. Michael owes his career to him, OK?!

But I'm just a hater, isn't it?

[Edited 8/25/10 16:13pm].

My last point to you now- MJ was a smart businessman years ago when he was at the peak of his career. Since the child abuse allegations in 2003 and the trial- it more easy for people to take more advantage of him than ever! Something they were incapable of years ago.

[Edited 8/25/10 16:19pm]

Your point is dubious and ambivalent. And so what? Does that still mean Michael didn't know what he was signing?

Answer: no.

Your point proves nothing.

Michael could come back as a freakin' ghost and tell the world that he holds Dr. Murray responsible for his death and denounce Joe Jackson as a leech and you'd find a way to say it was bullshit and actually blame AEG.

Look Militant: it has nothing to do with blaming anyone. It has to do with looking at the evidence with TWO eyes and realize what is there to realize. Michael doesn't need to come back as a ghost: you just have to look at the facts! And that is why I hold Murray responsible for Michael's death (medical negligence) and Joe Jackson and Rowe as leechs.

... Well, in fact, court transcrits also claim Rowe is an extortionist and a leech. Oh, those meanies! How on Earth did they do that!? I bet it was nothing but racism! How dare them?!

MOL said:

suga10 said:

My last point to you now- MJ was a smart businessman years ago when he was at the peak of his career. Since the child abuse allegations in 2003 and the trial- it more easy for people to take more advantage of him than ever! Something they were incapable of years ago.

[Edited 8/25/10 16:19pm]

Your point is dubious and ambivalent. And so what? Does that still mean Michael didn't know what he was signing?

Answer: no.

Your point proves nothing.

The man was addicted to drugs! There was full drug investigation going on after his death by the DEA for a certain reason! Jeez. He would sometimes sign shit without knowing that he actually did sign it. Please watch this video.

bboy87 said:

alphastreet said:

I was just like you when in my teens and early 20's, but I just got busy and lazy all together though I would still say I know a lot. Now I just read what you and others write and learn more that way

I've been like this since I was 4. One of my first real books was Magic and The Madness. I read that when I was 6 or 7

I liked him since I was about 2/3 if he was played throughout the years, but by the time I reached my preteens I was discovering more of his stuff and it was HIStory era so that's when the sudden interest built over the years

MOL said:

suga10 said:

I'm tired of talking about MJ's death now. I just want to talk about the music now. MOL needs to cut it out now.

[Edited 8/25/10 16:04pm]

Now that things don't look pretty to your side, you suddenly want to stop talking about Michael's death. Now that every single one of your arguments has been shot down, one by one, you want to talk about Michael's music. Curious. MOL stops when MOL wants to stop, honey.

[Edited 8/25/10 16:16pm]

MOL, I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with your posts, though i appreciate where your heart is, it's kind of dull and tiring you know?

suga10 said:

MOL said:

Your point is dubious and ambivalent. And so what? Does that still mean Michael didn't know what he was signing?

Answer: no.

Your point proves nothing.

The man was addicted to drugs! There was full drug investigation going on after his death by the DEA for a certain reason! Jeez. He would sometimes sign shit without knowing that he actually did sign it. Please watch this video.

I don't remember seeing this

alphastreet said:

suga10 said:

The man was addicted to drugs! There was full drug investigation going on after his death by the DEA for a certain reason! Jeez. He would sometimes sign shit without knowing that he actually did sign it. Please watch this video.

I don't remember seeing this

[img:$uid]http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l7pwedZxpn1qcg4pzo1_500.jpg[/img:$uid]

Michael looked really good in that video

[Edited 8/25/10 16:44pm]

suga10 said:

MOL said:

Your point is dubious and ambivalent. And so what? Does that still mean Michael didn't know what he was signing?

Answer: no.

Your point proves nothing.

The man was addicted to drugs! There was full drug investigation going on after his death by the DEA for a certain reason! Jeez. He would sometimes sign shit without knowing that he actually did sign it. Please watch this video.

No, there was no investigation going on after his death exclusively related to drugs. The only investigation going on was related to Dr. Murray and, guess what? It concluded that Michael was NOT addicted to drug hence why Murray was only charged with manslaughter. You're claiming exactly the OPPOSITE of what happened. Besides, everyone in contact with Michael denied he was addicted. And that's not to mention the autopsy: not only did it show that Michael was a healthy man but it also showed that his body had no signs of either short or long-term drug addiction.

Give it up, Suga!

babybugz said:

Timmy84 said:

People arguing to cope with the loss... or at least that's what someone said.

I was just trying to keep it real.

I saw you trrying to distract with pictures and videos .....lmfaoo

Yeah because people were going on and on and on about this and that. I'm TIRED of it.

MOL said:

suga10 said:

The man was addicted to drugs! There was full drug investigation going on after his death by the DEA for a certain reason! Jeez. He would sometimes sign shit without knowing that he actually did sign it. Please watch this video.

No, there was no investigation going on after his death exclusively related to drugs. The only investigation going on was related to Dr. Murray and, guess what? It concluded that Michael was NOT addicted to drug hence why Murray was only charged with manslaughter. You're claiming exactly the OPPOSITE of what happened. Besides, everyone in contact with Michael denied he was addicted. And that's not to mention the autopsy: not only did it show that Michael was a healthy man but it also showed that his body had no signs of either short or long-term drug addiction.

Give it up, Suga!

And Arnie Klein is innocent in all this too huh

There were looking at other doctors too.

Anyways enough is enough, you wanna believe Michael was healthy and your hero was incapable of wrongdoing- go right ahead!

[Edited 8/25/10 16:49pm]

suga10 said:

MOL said:

No, there was no investigation going on after his death exclusively related to drugs. The only investigation going on was related to Dr. Murray and, guess what? It concluded that Michael was NOT addicted to drug hence why Murray was only charged with manslaughter. You're claiming exactly the OPPOSITE of what happened. Besides, everyone in contact with Michael denied he was addicted. And that's not to mention the autopsy: not only did it show that Michael was a healthy man but it also showed that his body had no signs of either short or long-term drug addiction.

Give it up, Suga!

And Arnie Klein is innocent in all this too huh

Ad hominem.

Yes, they did look at other doctors and you know what they found: NOTHING. THey investigated 7 doctors and concluded that none of them had had a negative impact on Michael's life. It was concluded that the doctors were just in Michael's life with the sole and rightfull purpose of taking care of his health. There was ZERO evidence that those doctores contributed negatively to Michael's lifestyle. In fact, they concluded that none of the doctors overprescribed Michael or fed an alleged addiction. So, where was big time addict Michael getting all these drugs?

Once again, suga, you have been debunked.

[Edited 8/25/10 16:51pm]

it is true they looked at a bunch of other doctors but they were also looking at mj supposedly getting meds under different names including his own son's name though that turned out false

MOL said:

suga10 said:

And Arnie Klein is innocent in all this too huh

Ad hominem.

Yes, they did look at other doctors and you know what they found: NOTHING. THey investigated 7 doctors and concluded that none of them had had a negative impact on Michael's life. It was concluded that the doctors were just in Michael's life with the sole and rightfull purpose of taking care of his health. There was ZERO evidence that those doctores contributed negatively to Michael's lifestyle. In fact, they concluded that none of the doctors overprescribed Michael or fed an alleged addiction. So, where was big time addict Michael getting all these drugs?

Once again, suga, you have been debunked.

[Edited 8/25/10 16:51pm]

I could post more if I wanted.

What about this

The ultimate argument. Everytime someone dares to defend Michael with facts and evidence this "argument" pops up. Look, suga, you are fooling no one. I've counter-argumented you with facts. I've shot down every single one of your claims, one by one.

Right now, you implied there were past doctors feeding Michael's supposed addiction. I've counter-argumented you with the results of the investigation you mentioned and, guess what? They claim exactly the OPPOSITE of what you stated. So, you came up with the "hero" argument. With me that doesn't work.

Suga, GIVE IT UP. Don't try to fool anyone with what a Dr says in an interview with...Diane Dimond!

For every Susan Etok there is a Dr. Ionache, a Dr. Rebbes, a Tom Mesereau, a cook, dozens of bodyguards, company's representatives, dozens of dancers who claim exactly the opposite.

And there is also an autopsy report.

well I don't blame him for being on anti-depressants, considering what he went through, but maybe he got off them as showtime was approaching and was trying another way to treat himself. And gosh I never knew Diana Dimond was relevant these days....I feel she is more obsessed with him than ever and tries to act sympathetic...yeah right

[Edited 8/25/10 17:00pm]

alphastreet said:

it is true they looked at a bunch of other doctors but they were also looking at mj supposedly getting meds under different names including his own son's name though that turned out false

They looked at a "bunch of doctors" and concluded exactly the contrary of what suga claimed.

MOL said:

alphastreet said:

it is true they looked at a bunch of other doctors but they were also looking at mj supposedly getting meds under different names including his own son's name though that turned out false

They looked at a "bunch of doctors" and concluded exactly the contrary of what suga claimed.

yeah that's exactly how I remember it too

MOL said:

Suga, GIVE IT UP. Don't try to fool anyone with what a Dr says in an interview with...Diane Dimond!

For every Susan Etok there is a Dr. Ionache, a Dr. Rebbes, a Tom Mesereau, a cook, dozens of bodyguards, company's representatives, dozens of dancers who claim exactly the opposite.

And there is also an autopsy report.

You still don't say anything about him taking Propofol regularly every night. Propofol leaves the bloodstream quickly. It was not going to be detected on the autopsy report.

What about his sister Janet saying he was very much in denial on Oprah?

The family staging an intervention in Las Vegas three years ago?

I'll continue this discussion some other time. I'm not giving up, but I have other stuff I need to go do right now.

[Edited 8/25/10 17:06pm]