suga10 said:

Michael could come back as a freakin' ghost and tell the world that he holds AEG responsible for his death and you'd find a way to say it was bullshit and actually we should blame Joe Jackson.

Sometimes I think Michael faked his death to get out of his concerts and go to rehab- that's why nothing is happening to Murray, and Joe Jackson was laughing his ass of on June 27 with Reverand Jesse Jackson

And Harvey Levin would never take a risk to post this photo on TMZ ever, if he didn't know shit was up

[img:$uid]http://ll-media.tmz.com/2010/04/10/photo-credit-2.jpg[/img:$uid]

Harvey is a bitch.

If you think he faked his death, think about his children then. I don't think he would do such a thing.

Timmy84 said:

angel345 said:

As I said earlier, certain people that were close to him said his persona is different than his public image, to my understanding. If he was a pushover, he would not have lasted this long in the music business. It's a very cutthroat business, and MJ knew it.

And that's why I don't believe he was ever PUSHED to do the o2 concerts. No fucking way. Not a guy who knew the ins and outs of the business for 43 years. The guy had more experience and dealt with business at one point better than his father ever could. Michael still didn't trust his dad just like he wouldn't trust others.

Heck, he wouldn't do the Motown 25 show, unless he had a solo spot onstage. What does that tell you . It's really something to think about.

Speculate to break the one you hate
Circulate the lie you confiscate
Assassinate and mutilate
As the hounding media in hysteria
Who's the next for you to resurrect
JFK exposed the CIA
Truth be told the grassy knoll
As the blackmail story in all your glory

It's slander
You say it's not a sword
But with your pen you torture men
You'd crucify the Lord
And you don't have to read it, read it
And you don't have to eat it, eat it
To buy it is to feed it, feed it
So why do we keep foolin' ourselves

Just because you read it in a magazine
Or see it on the TV screen
Don't make it factual
Though everybody wants to read all about it
Just because you read it in a magazine
Or see it on the TV screen
Don't make it factual, actual
They say he's homosexual

In the hood
Frame him if you could
Shoot to kill
To blame him if you will
If he dies sympathize
Such false witnesses
Damn self righteousness
In the black
Stab me in the back
In the face
To lie and shame the race
Heroine and Marilyn
As the headline stories of
All your glory

It's slander
With the words you use
You're a parasite in black and white
Do anything for news
And you don't go and buy it, buy it
And they won't glorify it, 'fy it
To read it sanctifies it, 'fies it
Then why do we keep foolin' ourselves
Just because you read it in a magazine
Or see it on the TV screen
Don't make it factual
Everybody wants to read all about it
Just because you read it in a magazine
Or see it on the TV screen
Don't make it factual
See, but everybody wants to believe all about it

Just because you read it in a magazine
Or see it on the TV screen
Don't make it factual
See, but everybody wants to believe all about it
Just because you read it in a magazine
Or see it on the TV screen
Don't make it factual, actual
She's blonde and she's bisexual

Scandal
With the words you use
You're a parasite in black and white
Do anything for news
And you don't go and buy it, buy it
And they won't glorify it, 'fy it
To read it sanctifies it, 'fies it
Why do we keep foolin' ourselves
Slander
You say it's not a sin
But with your pen you torture men
Then why do we keep foolin' ourselves

Just because you read it in a magazine
Or see it on the TV screen
Don't make it factual
Though everybody wants to read all about it
Just because you read it in a magazine
Or see it on the TV screen
Don't make it factual
See, but everybody wants to read all about it

Just because you read it in a magazine
Or see it on the TV screen
Don't make it factual
Just because you read it in a magazine
Or see it on the TV screen
Don't make it factual
Just because you read it in a magazine
Or see it on the TV screen
Don't make it factual, actual
You're so damn disrespectable

suga10 said:

Wasn't it Dr Tohme who signed the contract on behalf of Michael. Is that why Michael fired him right after the This is It tour announcement?

Decrease the levels of DELUSION. Michael signed the contract HIMSELF. He knew what he wanted. And no, he was not drugged. HE WANTED TO DO THE SHOWS. No one forced him to do anything. The only people who were forcing Michael to do what they wanted was Joe and Rowe themselves. They are the leeches and the vultures here. Not AEG.

Marrk said:

Timmy84 said:

See this was why when he passed on, I didn't think "what a tragedy", I actually thought "what a great life". For him to come through what he went through and to achieve what he did, he didn't leave this world bitter unlike what some fans are trying to say. I'm just tired. The LAST thing Michael wanted was to be treated like a victim. I'm sick and tired of it. I don't know about you or bboy or whoever, but personally I'm tired of it. Trying to celebrate Michael while some people wanna speculate. It's as bad as seeing Michael on a tabloid with people thinking he cut his nose.

[Edited 8/25/10 14:54pm]

I agree. Though my previous post look like it contradicts it!

It was a great life no doubt, but Mike shouldn't have/didn't deserve to have gone out like that.

I agree with both of you

You both know how I was feeling after he passed, but I truly see "Damn, what a life"

My professor said something "There can't be hundreds of Michael Jacksons. There can only be one"

This was a man who came from GARY INDIANA, one of the most segregated cities in the US at the time, performing in talent shows, strip clubs, and hole in the wall bars and went on to this

[img:$uid]http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/5554/avchdmoonwalker1988720p.jpg[/img:$uid]

Everything that people Bill Robinson, Sammy Davis Jr., James Brown, Jackie Wilson, and so many others worked for, it paid off with Michael

angel345 said:

Timmy84 said:

And that's why I don't believe he was ever PUSHED to do the o2 concerts. No fucking way. Not a guy who knew the ins and outs of the business for 43 years. The guy had more experience and dealt with business at one point better than his father ever could. Michael still didn't trust his dad just like he wouldn't trust others.

Heck, he wouldn't do the Motown 25 show, unless he had a solo spot onstage. What does that tell you . It's really something to think about.

That means if he was gonna do something they want, he wanted to do his own thing. The man was all about trying to get control and that was smart negotiation on his part.

Timmy84 said:

suga10 said:

Sometimes I think Michael faked his death to get out of his concerts and go to rehab- that's why nothing is happening to Murray, and Joe Jackson was laughing his ass of on June 27 with Reverand Jesse Jackson

And Harvey Levin would never take a risk to post this photo on TMZ ever, if he didn't know shit was up

[img:$uid]http://ll-media.tmz.com/2010/04/10/photo-credit-2.jpg[/img:$uid]

Harvey is a bitch.

If you think he faked his death, think about his children then. I don't think he would do such a thing.

Dude, his family could be in on the joke too including Michael. That's why their acting sooo over the top

That's the why family is acting ridiculous this whole time.

No one has a consistant story and nothing is happening to Murray. Media blackout on Murray Case.

[Edited 8/25/10 15:20pm]

Timmy84 said:

suga10 said:

Sometimes I think Michael faked his death to get out of his concerts and go to rehab- that's why nothing is happening to Murray, and Joe Jackson was laughing his ass of on June 27 with Reverand Jesse Jackson

And Harvey Levin would never take a risk to post this photo on TMZ ever, if he didn't know shit was up

[img:$uid]http://ll-media.tmz.com/2010/04/10/photo-credit-2.jpg[/img:$uid]

Harvey is a bitch.

If you think he faked his death, think about his children then. I don't think he would do such a thing.

Crazy talk. Unless they'd in on it which i doubt a zillion %.

Maybe Michael is living in Mauritius in an air-conditioned Stan Winston studios fatsuit, maybe not.

bboy87 said:

MOL said:

Boo Hoo! Friedman says bad things about the Jackson! He bears their butt naked. Meanie Friedman!

Joe is just a victim! Cruel society!

Umm.... I was just stating the fact that the man's face looks like a raw egg hanging on a wire hanger.....

Yeah, the man was not blessed in the looks department.

I was just messing with you Bboy. I love doing so actually; It tastes like rice.

bboy87 said:

Marrk said:

I agree. Though my previous post look like it contradicts it!

It was a great life no doubt, but Mike shouldn't have/didn't deserve to have gone out like that.

I agree with both of you

You both know how I was feeling after he passed, but I truly see "Damn, what a life"

My professor said something "There can't be hundreds of Michael Jacksons. There can only be one"

This was a man who came from GARY INDIANA, one of the most segregated cities in the US at the time, performing in talent shows, strip clubs, and hole in the wall bars and went on to this

[img:$uid]http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/5554/avchdmoonwalker1988720p.jpg[/img:$uid]

Everything that people Bill Robinson, Sammy Davis Jr., James Brown, Jackie Wilson, and so many others worked for, it paid off with Michael

suga10 said:

Timmy84 said:

Michael fired him before he agreed to the concerts.

Tohme was at the O2 announcement, and was there shoving Michael up on that stage.

Latoya? Are you there?

Marrk said:

Timmy84 said:

Harvey is a bitch.

If you think he faked his death, think about his children then. I don't think he would do such a thing.

Crazy talk. Unless they'd in on it which i doubt a zillion %.

Maybe Michael is living in Mauritius in an air-conditioned Stan Winston studios fatsuit, maybe not.

I found it odd some fans wanna think he's alive, it reminds me of some 'Pac fans and Elvis fans thinking their icon was still around. Elvis been dead for 33 years people still think they actually see him. 'Pac been dead 14 years people still wanna believe he's around. It's delusional. I posted "Tabloid Junkie" for a reason. People who put their trust in TMZ, it's just glorifying rumors, which is what the entertainment world has turned to in the last three decades.

MOL said:

suga10 said:

Tohme was at the O2 announcement, and was there shoving Michael up on that stage.

Latoya? Are you there?J

So why June Gatlin saying stuff about how Michael was fearful of Tohme. Remember that taped conversation.

[Edited 8/25/10 15:24pm]

suga10 said:

MOL said:

Dileo talks about that in the Raffles interview. Michael was VERY afraid of his father so, when Joe put him in a corner and yelled at him "Sign this contract", Michael signed it. The other day, he phoned Dileo and told him: "We gotta get rid of this Rowe guy.". That's why Michael signed Rowe uo as his finantial advisor and, a day latter, fired him.

"Michael had asked me to go to the meeting with him but I was out of town. He knew what Joe and his buddy wanted. When Rowe was fired, a day latter, he came to me questioning me about that. I told him that the only reason Michael had even signed the contract [to make Rowe his financial advisor] was because Joe was looking over his shoulder. He always did what Joe wanted because he was very afraid. Besides, Joe and Rowe were, at that point, transforming Michae's life into a living hell. They hounded him like a shark hounds its prey and I don't think I have to say why.".

Honestly its very hard to know the whole side of the story. I would not be surprised if Michael was on drugs and was signing things without knowing what he was doing.

And why would Michael be afraid of Joe now? We're talking about a man who split away from his dad when he started pursuing his own solo career and picked his own lawyers, accountants, and professional staff. That's just BS. Yeah he was scared when he was younger, but eventually he got over it and Joe no longer boss him around.

[Edited 8/25/10 14:39pm]

Not true. In fact, if you read Rabbi Boteach Schumley's (or whatever the guy's name is spelled) book or listen to Michael's recorded conversations with him, you'll realize he was still VERY afraid of his father. "I behave like an angel when I'm with him. I do what he wants" and so on. And Michael told the Rabbi this when he was 41. So, yes, Michael was still afraid of Joe. Just listen to the recorded phone conversations with the damn Rabbi where Michael pretty much admits he was still afraid of that father of his. And no, Michael was not on drugs.

Suga: give it up. Evidence and facts prove you wrong.

Timmy84 said:

bboy87 said:

I agree with both of you

You both know how I was feeling after he passed, but I truly see "Damn, what a life"

My professor said something "There can't be hundreds of Michael Jacksons. There can only be one"

This was a man who came from GARY INDIANA, one of the most segregated cities in the US at the time, performing in talent shows, strip clubs, and hole in the wall bars and went on to this

[img:$uid]http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/5554/avchdmoonwalker1988720p.jpg[/img:$uid]

Everything that people Bill Robinson, Sammy Davis Jr., James Brown, Jackie Wilson, and so many others worked for, it paid off with Michael

That's Aintree, Liverpool. I was there, about 20 metres to the left of that tower in the middle of the crowd. It was horrendous. Bursting for a piss in an empty pepsi cup. I did as well, when it got dark. As a shy teen, i was not pissing in front of 125,000 people.

Wembley twice and Leeds that tour too. Good times.

Marrk said:

Timmy84 said:

That's Aintree, Liverpool. I was there, about 20 metres to the left of that tower in the middle of the crowd. It was horrendous. Bursting for a piss in an empty pepsi cup. I did as well, when it got dark. As a shy teen, i was not pissing in front of 125,000 people.

Wembley twice and Leeds that tour too. Good times.

That must've been a scary situation for you at the time but it was worth it because it was Michael.

MOL said:

suga10 said:

Honestly its very hard to know the whole side of the story. I would not be surprised if Michael was on drugs and was signing things without knowing what he was doing.

And why would Michael be afraid of Joe now? We're talking about a man who split away from his dad when he started pursuing his own solo career and picked his own lawyers, accountants, and professional staff. That's just BS. Yeah he was scared when he was younger, but eventually he got over it and Joe no longer boss him around.

[Edited 8/25/10 14:39pm]

Not true. In fact, if you read Rabbi Boteach Schumley's (or whatever the guy's name is spelled) book or listen to Michael's recorded conversations with him, you'll realize he was still VERY afraid of his father. "I behave like an angel when I'm with him. I do what he wants" and so on. And Michael told the Rabbi this when he was 41. So, yes, Michael was still afraid of Joe. Just listen to the recorded phone conversations with the damn Rabbi where Michael pretty much admits he was still afraid of that father of his. And no, Michael was not on drugs.

Suga: give it up. Evidence and facts prove you wrong.

I will never believe MJ was afraid of Joe in his later years.

He had his own management, and didn't do what Joe told him. MJ was in charge of his own career.

He didn't bother to listen to his family when they insisted on a Jackson tour.

He had the guts to tell Oprah and Bashir that Joe beat him. Don't you think he would have been scared to say stuff like that if he knew his dad was watching.

Timmy84 said:

Marrk said:

That's Aintree, Liverpool. I was there, about 20 metres to the left of that tower in the middle of the crowd. It was horrendous. Bursting for a piss in an empty pepsi cup. I did as well, when it got dark. As a shy teen, i was not pissing in front of 125,000 people.

Wembley twice and Leeds that tour too. Good times.

That must've been a scary situation for you at the time but it was worth it because it was Michael.

Worth every drip my friend.

Marrk said:

Timmy84 said:

That's Aintree, Liverpool. I was there, about 20 metres to the left of that tower in the middle of the crowd. It was horrendous. Bursting for a piss in an empty pepsi cup. I did as well, when it got dark. As a shy teen, i was not pissing in front of 125,000 people.

Wembley twice and Leeds that tour too. Good times.

Have you heard the bootleg? It's pretty great. They played Let It Be during the band interlude

Timmy84 said:

angel345 said:

Heck, he wouldn't do the Motown 25 show, unless he had a solo spot onstage. What does that tell you . It's really something to think about.

That means if he was gonna do something they want, he wanted to do his own thing. The man was all about trying to get control and that was smart negotiation on his part.

I saw a video of MJ exposing Sony. He was saying in so many words how he outsmarted them. I say this to say it is evident he was no pushover, and yes he makes very smart negotiations

[Edited 8/25/10 15:43pm]

suga10 said:

Alright if Michael was in such great health, why could AEG not get even a decent rehearsal of an entire song he performed in the whole movie- without him changing outfits every single minute?How the funny the singing sound exactly the same throughout this entire clip while he's changing outfits every 30 seconds.

Also why why is there such a big drug investigation after his death as well?

Human Nature- This is It

Dangerous Tour Rehearsal- 5 minute footage, where Michael completes the song in its entirety

Smooth Criminal Dangerous Tour Rehearsal

Smooth Criminal This is It- constantly changing outfits, not even getting through a complete rehearsal- all footage put together from different rehearsal days to complete an entire song.

[Edited 8/25/10 10:04am]

[Edited 8/25/10 10:05am]

[Edited 8/25/10 10:05am]

Marrk said:

Timmy84 said:

That must've been a scary situation for you at the time but it was worth it because it was Michael.

Worth every drip my friend.

I've always thought about that! How did the fans on the grass go to the bathroom?

And why did none of them have video cameras?!

^^ sorry don't know why all of my post is bolded.

bboy87 said:

Marrk said:

That's Aintree, Liverpool. I was there, about 20 metres to the left of that tower in the middle of the crowd. It was horrendous. Bursting for a piss in an empty pepsi cup. I did as well, when it got dark. As a shy teen, i was not pissing in front of 125,000 people.

Wembley twice and Leeds that tour too. Good times.

Have you heard the bootleg? It's pretty great. They played Let It Be during the band interlude

No, not heard it. i don't remember that, or i didn't pick up on it. I do recall 'It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night' and 'Don't Stop Til You Get Enough' on occasion during the interlude, but if Mike wasn't on stage, i probably was chatting to my friend/family. I think he was gone 15/20 minutes or something.

Marrk said:

bboy87 said:

Have you heard the bootleg? It's pretty great. They played Let It Be during the band interlude

No, not heard it. i don't remember that, or i didn't pick up on it. I do recall 'It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night' and 'Don't Stop Til You Get Enough' on occasion during the interlude, but if Mike wasn't on stage, i probably was chatting to my friend/family. I think he was gone 15/20 minutes or something.

check your inbox

Swa said:

Suga - I know you mean well so this isn't an attack just trying to explain a few things about the This Is It movie. Now you reference why are there multiple changes in outfits and not one solid performance of song in it's entirety.

You have to remember that This Is It is a movie first and foremost - and a movie that was never intended to be shot. In the same way that the footage from the Dangerous rehearsals were from one camera angle it doesn't really make for compelling viewing. Sure you can possibly sit through one song like this but when you are watching a movie and every scene is like this you would get bored and the reviews would have been that the movie was amateurish and used poor footage.

You also have to remember that this was shot for private use, with maybe only two or three cameras capturing the performance. So in the editing room if you are only dealing with one rehearsal you are somewhat limited in how you can show the performance. Just imagine if you were watching Beat It for example and the dance routine - and you just had a close up of Michael dancing - you would be sitting there saying why aren't they on a wide shot showing everyone doing the move, that's where the energy is. So in order to capture this excitement of the performance you would look to use the best take from the angle you want (thus one might be from one rehearsal, the next from another day - in the same way a scene in a movie between 3 actors might be made up of 12 different takes).

As far as the audio goes - again you use a master audio take (full song) as your main source and then edit to this. More often than not this would mean using most of the footage from that take also and then adding in accents here or there visually from other shots.

Also you have to consider that this wasn't a "concert film" but more of a behind the scenes look into putting the concert together. What they are trying to show you (sometimes in one song like in the case of Human Nature) is the way the song comes together in rehearsal from an initial sound check to a full performance of the song. Again they are taking us on a journey here giving us a peek inside how MJ works.

Also you have to bear in mind that this was MJ at 70% of what he would bring opening night. I've said it before, you don't go all out each night of rehearsal - but you build up to be at 100% on opening night.

I hope this helps you appreciate why the footage from This Is It is edited up.

Swa

Which is why I wouldn't even call it rehearsal footage. This movie was more of a behind the scenes look into the creation of this tour. They however did not prove with this film that MJ was healthy enough to do those 50 shows in London- if their motive was to prove to people that MJ was in full form to do those shows. This was the biggest question a lot of people- if MJ was even capable of doing the show? I would say as far as proving MJ was healthy- they failed.

I can understand why they would have done a movie- they had to recover their money somehow after what happened. So its understandable.

[Edited 8/25/10 15:45pm]

Swa said:

^^ sorry don't know why all of my post is bolded.

Just highlight everything and take the bold tag off.

bboy87 said:

Marrk said:

Worth every drip my friend.

I've always thought about that! How did the fans on the grass go to the bathroom?

And why did none of them have video cameras?!

There was no dignity. Piss in a cup or risk not getting back to where you were and brave the portable toilet.

You couldn't hide a 1988 video camera, no way, and they were so expensive you couldn't risk it being taken off you. What surprises me is in the 'Another Part Of Me' Video from Wembley, there IS a girl with a camera dancing at the back of the stadium. Quite a bizarre moment seeing that.

bboy87 said:

Marrk said:

No, not heard it. i don't remember that, or i didn't pick up on it. I do recall 'It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night' and 'Don't Stop Til You Get Enough' on occasion during the interlude, but if Mike wasn't on stage, i probably was chatting to my friend/family. I think he was gone 15/20 minutes or something.

check your inbox

Thanx. I'll check that tomorrow Bboy. I need some sleep.

Did you get that lossless version of 'Niteline' that leaked recently in proper CD quality? way better than the Thriller Demo leaks from last year, If not i'll help out tomorrow.