suga10 said:

babybugz said:

I only watch This Is it once and something was off about his Appearance nothing else anybody can say makes me think otherwise.

His appearance was off throughout the movie because they used doubles (genuine ones which looked realistic to the public). I think Michael wasn't really coming to rehearsal all that much as they would like to make us think. If he was really healthy, he would have done something similar to the Dangerous Tour rehearsals. These rehearsals were nothing like the Dangerous Tour rehearsals, where he would start and finish the song in its entirety. I really think he gave it his all only in the Jackson 5 Medley and Black or White. These AEG guys did a lot of editing.

And as nutty as Karen Faye maybe, I think she's telling the truth. She just wasn't saying much before because Michael was still alive. She is angered after what happened to him and is speaking out now

[Edited 8/24/10 10:44am]

Absolute bullshit.

I'm sorry, but I've followed MJ my whole life and I've never seen a convincing lookalike. People were saying the exact same thing about the press conference in March 09 but any fan worth their salt KNEW that was definately MJ.

That picture you posted of MJ in the red jacket a few pages back is MJ and not a double. Why would they hire a double for a non-performing scene which lasts just a couple of seconds? You can see it's MJ, he has the lip problem and everything.

All the scenes in TII are obviously Michael. Anybody who believes otherwise either a) knows very little about MJ or b) loves to buy in to conspiracy theories.

Yes he looked different, but he was a lot thinner and weightloss can chance peoples appearances.

You're just talking crap.

[Edited 8/24/10 14:04pm]

mozfonky said:

Timmy84 said:

Why even bring this? They ain't got answers either.

Well, I don't have a tv, everybody but me probably saw that. But thanks again. Anyway, why did Mike fire her before? Has she sold him out before? Tragic thing is, when it comes to money eventually everyone has to sell out. My old Martial Arts teacher was a senior student of Bruce Lee, he went decades before his son finally conned him into trying to make money off of Bruce. He swore he never would, and probably still says he didn't but the fact is, they started a business based on Bruce's legacy to make money. All of which i guess points to the fact that well, after a point, trust has to be forgotten about just so we can get through day to day life in a competent manner. It's a helluva feeling though, knowing that you really can't trust anyone, I've been there and it's just a cold lonely feeling. One that just will make you sit alone and stare into space for a good while.

She was one of the reasons MJJSource (MJ's own site that he tried to make after splitting from Tommy Motolla's Sony) fell apart. Apparently she was cheating MJ fans out of money to pay for some portions of the site I think.

babybugz said:

Timmy84 said:

Maybe, Vanilli, but sometimes discussing like this, which has been talked over and over even when MJ was among the living, becomes tired when none of us know the answers to why. All we can do is remember the man for who he was and not for what caused him to "look that way". Stress was a major factor in how he dealt with situations you guys are mentioning. I'll just leave that alone.

That's why I rarely discuss these things lol , trust me I know all about the jacksons past , rumored past whatever you want to call it I just feel those things are so Irrelevant now.

Especially now that Michael's gone.

bboy87 said:

ViintageJunkiie said:

I was listening to Sunset Driver and it made me wonder, is it officially an OFF THE WALL outtake? I once saw on some MJ website that it was actually an outtake from either Destiny or Triumph. It's possible it can be an outtake for one of the 3, if not, ALL 3.

Destiny (1977-1978)

Off The Wall (1978-1979)

Triumph (1979-1980)

MJ was working on OTW while he was working on both Destiny and Triumph albums.

We were talking about it on MJJVault awhile back. I think it's like the case of Streetwalker. Michael recorded it for that particular album but then reworked it later on. Not to mention Sunset Driver is a studio demo and worked on by Michael and Greg Philliganes and they used alot of synth and percussion in their demos together, but's definitely possible that an earlier version from the Off The Wall sessions

I just found out that the version of In The Back on The Ultimate Collection is the early version. Michael and Brad Buxer worked on it more and there's a more finished version apparently

Bboy,how the hell do you know so much?

Man,I could ask you

The first time Mike sneezed,

his email address.

his Ip address,

how many times he slept,

his cousins phone number,

and

the last time he sneezed.

And you'd come back in a timely manner with all the answers and then some.

ali23 said:

bboy87 said:

We were talking about it on MJJVault awhile back. I think it's like the case of Streetwalker. Michael recorded it for that particular album but then reworked it later on. Not to mention Sunset Driver is a studio demo and worked on by Michael and Greg Philliganes and they used alot of synth and percussion in their demos together, but's definitely possible that an earlier version from the Off The Wall sessions

I just found out that the version of In The Back on The Ultimate Collection is the early version. Michael and Brad Buxer worked on it more and there's a more finished version apparently

Bboy,how the hell do you know so much?

Man,I could ask you

The first time Mike sneezed,

his email address.

his Ip address,

how many times he slept,

his cousins phone number,

and

the last time he sneezed.

And you'd come back in a timely manner with all the answers and then some.

babybugz said:

ali23 said:

Bboy,how the hell do you know so much?

Man,I could ask you

The first time Mike sneezed,

his email address.

his Ip address,

how many times he slept,

his cousins phone number,

and

the last time he sneezed.

And you'd come back in a timely manner with all the answers and then some.

Because he's a stan , bboy not saying anything that I don't already know I'm just watching him educate others lmfaoo.

lol!

Regarding This Is It - the 50 dates were spread out over a 9 month period which included a 2+ month break after the first 3 months of concerts.

As for the movie - this was still rehearsal phase 3 weeks out from opening night. You don't push yourself and deliver 100% that far out, who run through things and get the performance up to peak on the nights that matter. Like an athlete, you don't break the 100 meters record in the lead up to the Olympics, you save it for the day. Thus you can't watch the film and compare to it "actual" concerts, but rather watch it in comparisson to the Dangerous rehearsals.

When you take all those into consideration I think you see an MJ that could still excite with his voice and moves and someone who would have definitely delivered the goods on opening night and wowed everyone in attendance.

^^ Don't talk to me about MJJSource - surely I wasn't alone in signing up for that site and never feeling 100% satisfied with how it was operated or even how long it ran. From memory this was around the time Randy was acting as chief advisor / manager.

Swa said:

Regarding This Is It - the 50 dates were spread out over a 9 month period which included a 2+ month break after the first 3 months of concerts.

As for the movie - this was still rehearsal phase 3 weeks out from opening night. You don't push yourself and deliver 100% that far out, who run through things and get the performance up to peak on the nights that matter. Like an athlete, you don't break the 100 meters record in the lead up to the Olympics, you save it for the day. Thus you can't watch the film and compare to it "actual" concerts, but rather watch it in comparisson to the Dangerous rehearsals.

When you take all those into consideration I think you see an MJ that could still excite with his voice and moves and someone who would have definitely delivered the goods on opening night and wowed everyone in attendance.

I guess I can only speak for myself, I am a singer and musician, I try to get as close to a performance level intensity as i possibly can. As far as when I play piano and sing, if i've really worked hard and really need rest, a few days will have me back to normal or close to it. Now, I'm not comparing this to all the other stresses that a performer of michael's stature goes through, just that it just looked halfhearted to me, and that he wasn't really enthused about it, which at 50 and having climbed all those mountains, seems very plausible.

I think MJ was pushed into this London concert series. I really think he was doing this because he had to fix up some of his financial issues up. I don't think he was nearly as broke as the media like to say, but there was some sort of financially related problem in there somewhere that he had to take care of.

MJ in the private home videos stated how he hated touring, and how this caused his body a great deal of stress.

Personally if I were MJ, I would went into filmmaking. He always stated how he had a desire to make movies.

[Edited 8/24/10 16:55pm]

Yeah, someone posted a vid where he used the word "hate" for touring. He then said he "went through hell". He would not have been touring as such but many of the same stressors would have been right in his face. Touring has, for reasons I have never completely understood, has burned out a million musicians. I've heard Faye say the same thing which someone said about Elvis (again, sorry) how they would get so keyed up for performances that they just could not sleep. You add that to them already being insomniacs and it equals a major drain on a persons resources.

Or the Quincy Jones route, quincy did all that shit off the clout he got with Michael, I'm sure Michael could have done the same if he'd wanted. I don't think quincy does anything creative in the fields he's dominating in today, he is just a gatekeeper. And my, all those wacky gay/devil worship rumours sure are interesting too.

I started hearing about those rumors about a few weeks ago and people on youtube were saying he tried to corrupt michael, tevin campbell and others.

alphastreet said:

I started hearing about those rumors about a few weeks ago and people on youtube were saying he tried to corrupt michael, tevin campbell and others.

yeah, that shit is crazy, you can't believe that crap. Only thing Q did was talk shit which was bad enough for me.

babybugz said:

ali23 said:

Bboy,how the hell do you know so much?

Man,I could ask you

The first time Mike sneezed,

his email address.

his Ip address,

how many times he slept,

his cousins phone number,

and

the last time he sneezed.

And you'd come back in a timely manner with all the answers and then some.

Because he's a stan , bboy not saying anything that I don't already know I'm just watching him educate others lmfaoo.

I like educated stans go on with your bad self boy!

seeingvoices12 said:

babybugz said:

Because he's a stan , bboy not saying anything that I don't already know I'm just watching him educate others lmfaoo.

I am watching parts of Bucharest again and there is no doubting the man's mastery here. Ok, still the wardrobe was a little off but his control of himself, his body and the audience are peerless here. He does the best James Brown stuff this side of James Brown which I never saw from him. No moves to fill dead space like in this is it, he had it all well rehearsed and perfected.

the outfit made me cringe when I first saw it too but it grew on me in later years, maybe cause I missed him onstage

and I loooove all his shuffles on this tour

mozfonky said:

I am watching parts of Bucharest again and there is no doubting the man's mastery here. Ok, still the wardrobe was a little off but his control of himself, his body and the audience are peerless here. He does the best James Brown stuff this side of James Brown which I never saw from him. No moves to fill dead space like in this is it, he had it all well rehearsed and perfected.

Dancing wise- the Dangerous Tour was best out of all the tours he's done.

And the Jackson 5 medley- he did it with a lot of energy.

When I first watched the dangerous tour on tape many years ago, I just got this really really high rush and craved being part of the audience so badly and felt just like them in my room, even freaked out during she's out of my life. I knew then (and even years before it) that I NEEDED to see this man in this lifetime or I was going to be so so sad. And here we are today, though it's getting easier

ali23 said:

bboy87 said:

We were talking about it on MJJVault awhile back. I think it's like the case of Streetwalker. Michael recorded it for that particular album but then reworked it later on. Not to mention Sunset Driver is a studio demo and worked on by Michael and Greg Philliganes and they used alot of synth and percussion in their demos together, but's definitely possible that an earlier version from the Off The Wall sessions

I just found out that the version of In The Back on The Ultimate Collection is the early version. Michael and Brad Buxer worked on it more and there's a more finished version apparently

Bboy,how the hell do you know so much?

Man,I could ask you

The first time Mike sneezed,

his email address.

his Ip address,

how many times he slept,

his cousins phone number,

and

the last time he sneezed.

And you'd come back in a timely manner with all the answers and then some.

When it comes to my favorite artists or someone I have alot of admiration for, I try to learn alot about their work. Michael is a my favorite research topic I love learning about how he worked and how the songs came together....etc.

I was just like you when in my teens and early 20's, but I just got busy and lazy all together though I would still say I know a lot. Now I just read what you and others write and learn more that way

I'll just say this much on the propofol/murray situation

I think Michael's death was caused not by someone intending to kill someone or Michael's alleged addiction (we don't know what Michael was going through and I don't feel right discussing it), but by medical incompetence. The nurse (I think her name is Cherilyn Lee) saying Michael told her "No, the doctor said it's okay as long as I have someone watching me), I don't know, that sounds like someone who's been misinformed.

I don't like talking about the cause of Michael's death because we really don't know what happened or how it happened. I'm not gonna say "oh Michael was an addict and he died from his addiction" because I don't believe he was at the time of his death or I'm not too sure of it although I agree that using something like propofol is extreme, plus the autopsy says otherwise. I believe it's possible that his team decided that propofol was okay to use because they needed him to sleep and be ready for his commitments so which could be why he used it, and I'm not gonna say Murray intended to kill him because I'm not sure I believe it or the many conspiracy theories. Plus, who really wants to face the WRATH of MICHAEL JACKSON FANS WORLDWIDE. I'd rather get a tattoo of a turd with a rusty needle

Although I believe that was due to medical incompetence and not an intention to kill or Michael's possible addictions, I do think that greediness from AEG and Michael's team plays a part in it.

And another thing, Michael may have transitioned on June 25th but as I said before, Michael had been slowly dying since 2005

alphastreet said:

I was just like you when in my teens and early 20's, but I just got busy and lazy all together though I would still say I know a lot. Now I just read what you and others write and learn more that way

I've been like this since I was 4. One of my first real books was Magic and The Madness. I read that when I was 6 or 7

suga10 said:

I think MJ was pushed into this London concert series. I really think he was doing this because he had to fix up some of his financial issues up. I don't think he was nearly as broke as the media like to say, but there was some sort of financially related problem in there somewhere that he had to take care of.

MJ in the private home videos stated how he hated touring, and how this caused his body a great deal of stress.

Personally if I were MJ, I would went into filmmaking. He always stated how he had a desire to make movies.

[Edited 8/24/10 16:55pm]

Yes he hated TOURING, not performing which is why the residency gig appealed to him. The quote you refer to he talks about how you are constantly travelling, dealing with jetlag, etc etc.

I still think he could have done the 50 shows over a 9 month period, in fact I had tickets to two nights in March I was that confident.

bboy87 said:

I'll just say this much on the propofol/murray situation

I think Michael's death was caused not by someone intending to kill someone or Michael's alleged addiction (we don't know what Michael was going through and I don't feel right discussing it), but by medical incompetence. The nurse (I think her name is Cherilyn Lee) saying Michael told her "No, the doctor said it's okay as long as I have someone watching me), I don't know, that sounds like someone who's been misinformed.

I don't like talking about the cause of Michael's death because we really don't know what happened or how it happened. I'm not gonna say "oh Michael was an addict and he died from his addiction" because I don't believe he was at the time of his death or I'm not too sure of it although I agree that using something like propofol is extreme, plus the autopsy says otherwise. I believe it's possible that his team decided that propofol was okay to use because they needed him to sleep and be ready for his commitments so which could be why he used it, and I'm not gonna say Murray intended to kill him because I'm not sure I believe it or the many conspiracy theories. Plus, who really wants to face the WRATH of MICHAEL JACKSON FANS WORLDWIDE. I'd rather get a tattoo of a turd with a rusty needle

Although I believe that was due to medical incompetence and not an intention to kill or Michael's possible addictions, I do think that greediness from AEG and Michael's team plays a part in it.

And another thing, Michael may have transitioned on June 25th but as I said before, Michael had been slowly dying since 2005

That's more or less how I feel. I don't think he was hooked on anything at the time of his death based on the autopsy. I also didn't think it was right for everyone to jump to conclusions right away after his death, it just gave the media something to really, really feed on and with the finding that he had nothing in his system which would point to a chronic drug problem, it was almost a letdown for all these vulture type people. I don't know if the 05 thing broke his spirit but wouldn't doubt it. I wish he could know just how many people are broken hearted over his ending, and if you are as crazy as I am, just really pissed off about the injustice of it all. I will also say this, there are a multitude of examples of people using foreign substances and it not having the desired affect, it is nothing to play with. The ancient medical symbol of two snakes facing each other meant the cure can also kill. Unless necessary, don't touch the stuff, something not many of us abide by.

Swa said:

suga10 said:

I think MJ was pushed into this London concert series. I really think he was doing this because he had to fix up some of his financial issues up. I don't think he was nearly as broke as the media like to say, but there was some sort of financially related problem in there somewhere that he had to take care of.

MJ in the private home videos stated how he hated touring, and how this caused his body a great deal of stress.

Personally if I were MJ, I would went into filmmaking. He always stated how he had a desire to make movies.

[Edited 8/24/10 16:55pm]

Yes he hated TOURING, not performing which is why the residency gig appealed to him. The quote you refer to he talks about how you are constantly travelling, dealing with jetlag, etc etc.

I still think he could have done the 50 shows over a 9 month period, in fact I had tickets to two nights in March I was that confident.

He wouldn't have done as well as he had in the past but he would have gained self-confidence and a real much needed boost. I think even a diminished Michael would still have been loved just like the fat old Elvis was loved and I'm sure he would have performed better than some of E's dismal shows. After all, no matter what he is Michael F'ng Jackson, he couldn't lose.

mozfonky said:

bboy87 said:

I'll just say this much on the propofol/murray situation

I think Michael's death was caused not by someone intending to kill someone or Michael's alleged addiction (we don't know what Michael was going through and I don't feel right discussing it), but by medical incompetence. The nurse (I think her name is Cherilyn Lee) saying Michael told her "No, the doctor said it's okay as long as I have someone watching me), I don't know, that sounds like someone who's been misinformed.

I don't like talking about the cause of Michael's death because we really don't know what happened or how it happened. I'm not gonna say "oh Michael was an addict and he died from his addiction" because I don't believe he was at the time of his death or I'm not too sure of it although I agree that using something like propofol is extreme, plus the autopsy says otherwise. I believe it's possible that his team decided that propofol was okay to use because they needed him to sleep and be ready for his commitments so which could be why he used it, and I'm not gonna say Murray intended to kill him because I'm not sure I believe it or the many conspiracy theories. Plus, who really wants to face the WRATH of MICHAEL JACKSON FANS WORLDWIDE. I'd rather get a tattoo of a turd with a rusty needle

Although I believe that was due to medical incompetence and not an intention to kill or Michael's possible addictions, I do think that greediness from AEG and Michael's team plays a part in it.

And another thing, Michael may have transitioned on June 25th but as I said before, Michael had been slowly dying since 2005

That's more or less how I feel. I don't think he was hooked on anything at the time of his death based on the autopsy. I also didn't think it was right for everyone to jump to conclusions right away after his death, it just gave the media something to really, really feed on and with the finding that he had nothing in his system which would point to a chronic drug problem, it was almost a letdown for all these vulture type people. I don't know if the 05 thing broke his spirit but wouldn't doubt it. I wish he could know just how many people are broken hearted over his ending, and if you are as crazy as I am, just really pissed off about the injustice of it all. I will also say this, there are a multitude of examples of people using foreign substances and it not having the desired affect, it is nothing to play with. The ancient medical symbol of two snakes facing each other meant the cure can also kill. Unless necessary, don't touch the stuff, something not many of us abide by.

I think people talking about his past addictions and such painted a picture that it's now seen as fact when in truth, we don't really know what was going on. I'll be honest, I did wonder why he was going to the doctor's office regularly from March to June so much but I now realize it was because he was trying to get his health back in order and maybe trying to fix possible damage on his face

I just wish he could see the love he's gotten since June 09 but also the crap people have resorted to since. People who he trusted or considered friends. Quincy doing that interview, Deepak Chopra and his son running to every news outlet that would let them, Brian Oxman pushing through the crowds at the hospital with a smile on his face to do an interview the minute it was confirmed Michael was gone, Arnold Klien running to TMZ doing interviews and lying about his children, sex life, and drug use, going around saying he was Michael's best friend (and getting confronted by Liz Taylor), his father going after his estate for money and doing that LEGENDARY funny interview on Larry King (That shit was seriously must see TV), his mother being exploited to an extent, people who turned their backs on him running and telling their stories about him, people using his death to promote their own careers.....it's crazy what people will do for money and publicity