i don't think john mayer could school P on the guitar. but maybe i'm just having trouble getting past who john mayer is? he annoys the hell out of me, and i just can't stand his voice or hearing him talk.

I have no idea who is "better" nor do I care. However, some folks are taking something that Prince said (he's embarrassed by some of his older playing) as proof that he is better now. That seems kind of naive. What else is Prince going to say? "Boy, I really was a much better player then." Of course not! It's just like how everytime an artist is promoting a new album they almost always say that it is their best. Maybe Prince is better now but if he wasn't it's not like he is ever going to admit it!

Threadbare buddy when John Mayer phase pass you ,you gonna laugh at this thread

do you think Johny Lang can school PrINCE also?

sexyfunkystrange said:

LOL!!!!!!!!!!

The OP had flashbacks of this during Mayer's killer dime a dozen blues copy and paste solo.

Alamine said:

sexyfunkystrange said:

LOL!!!!!!!!!!

The OP had flashbacks of this during Mayer's killer dime a dozen blues copy and paste solo.

Psychological projection or projection bias (including Freudian Projection) is the unconscious act of denial of a person's own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world, such as to the weather, a tool, or to other people. Thus, it involves imagining or projecting that others have those feelings.

You're welcome.

the truth is John can school Prince but Prince can school John on guitar also.

Everybody have weaker and stronger side.

i respect both players

i respect original poster Thread bare but i think Mayer is just a phase.i had phases when i liked other guitar players more then Prince but i was always coming back to him

thebanishedone said:

the truth is John can school Prince but Prince can school John on guitar also.

Everybody have weaker and stronger side.

i respect both players

i respect original poster Thread bare but i think Mayer is just a phase.i had phases when i liked other guitar players more then Prince but i was always coming back to him

Well, I can relate to that, but I think to dismiss my interest in JM's playing (which spans the better part of a decade) runs the risk of calling my support of other folks' playing a phase, too.

Santana, Grant Green, Norman Simmons' awesome axeman Henry Johnson, Derek Truck, Elijah Wooten, Mark Knopfler, Johnny Lang, Buddy Guy -- these have been phases I've explored in recent years.

Prince, Hendrix, SRV, Clapton, Doyle Bramhall II, Jeff Beck, JM, Adam Levy -- these are some cats I'd say I've dug consistently for many, many years.

It's nice to hear you say JM could school P on some things. I never meant for it to sound mutually exclusive. Some commenters here seem to think I was asserting any exchange would be one-sided. I probably contributed to that, though it was indeliberate, if so.

I still like Prince's playing. I just think his most inspirational playing was decades ago. I think it ought to be OK for a musician of his status to have a noted period of influence and inspiration. I'd love for him to release something to refute that position of mine. I'd be the first to say I was wrong.

[Edited 8/14/10 19:18pm]

I think John Mayer could school Prince on being a douche.....

and it's not like Prince isn't massively talented at that either....

rialb said:

I have no idea who is "better" nor do I care. However, some folks are taking something that Prince said (he's embarrassed by some of his older playing) as proof that he is better now. That seems kind of naive. What else is Prince going to say? "Boy, I really was a much better player then." Of course not! It's just like how everytime an artist is promoting a new album they almost always say that it is their best. Maybe Prince is better now but if he wasn't it's not like he is ever going to admit it!

I have seen Prince being really boring on the guitar back in 1998 in London. I have witnessed messy solos on the Cross in 1987 and a totally unispired Prince on the guitar back in 1989 during the Nude Tour.

The Prince I have seen the last 3 years has become a guitar God which he was NOT back in the 80s. His skills have improved massively. He has admitted himself he was not practicing enough at some stage of his career.

You really need to see Prince on stage sometimes.

Morever every great musician is like a good wine: they get better with time. You've got to be deaf not to hear the massive improvement in Prince playing on a CD like LotusFlow3r compared to his flat playing on The Undertaker for instance.

Then on stage... He is just...woaw...amazing on the guitar at the moment.

[Edited 8/15/10 2:00am]

ohYeeeeeah said:

rialb said:

I have no idea who is "better" nor do I care. However, some folks are taking something that Prince said (he's embarrassed by some of his older playing) as proof that he is better now. That seems kind of naive. What else is Prince going to say? "Boy, I really was a much better player then." Of course not! It's just like how everytime an artist is promoting a new album they almost always say that it is their best. Maybe Prince is better now but if he wasn't it's not like he is ever going to admit it!

I have seen Prince being really boring on the guitar back in 1998 in London. I have witnessed messy solos on the Cross in 1987 and a totally unispired Prince on the guitar back in 1989 during the Nude Tour.

The Prince I have seen the last 3 years has become a guitar God which he was NOT back in the 80s. His skills have improved massively. He has admitted himself he was not practicing enough at some stage of his career.

You really need to see Prince on stage sometimes.

Morever every great musician is like a good wine: they get better with time. You've got to be deaf not to hear the massive improvement in Prince playing on a CD like LotusFlow3r compared to his flat playing on The Undertaker for instance.

Then on stage... He is just...woaw...amazing on the guitar at the moment.

[Edited 8/15/10 2:00am]

What you are saying may be true but I don't think it can be taken as conclusive proof that Prince is better now than he was then. Maybe on the occasions where you were disappointed with his playing he was having an off night? I'm sure there must have been times in the last three years where he had off nights too but maybe you were lucky enough to catch him on a great night? I guess what I am saying is that isolated shows shouldn't be taken as evidence that he's better or worse.

I also disagree with your fine wine comparison. Sure, after years of playing any musician should improve on their instrument but very often it is a tradeoff and they lose the fire that they had in the early years. I'll take inspired passion over cold precision every time. I'm not necessarily saying that this is the case with Prince but it could be. More likely I think that sometimes he plays great and sometimes he plays a little flat. That's probably been true of his entire career.

wtf

i'd suggest you'd lay off the crack pipe

[Edited 8/15/10 5:30am]

has anybody mentioned this cat i heard named joe satriani?? this dude is incredible

rialb said:

I have no idea who is "better" nor do I care. However, some folks are taking something that Prince said (he's embarrassed by some of his older playing) as proof that he is better now. That seems kind of naive. What else is Prince going to say? "Boy, I really was a much better player then." Of course not! It's just like how everytime an artist is promoting a new album they almost always say that it is their best. Maybe Prince is better now but if he wasn't it's not like he is ever going to admit it!

Such a brilliant point. Been meaning to say that for a while now.

I don't know if I can say John Mayer coould school Prince on guitar or the other way around, but I do know he is an incredibly good guitarist. However, it's not an exact comparison, because stylisitically they are different.

Prince got his start as a funk and rhythm guitar style in the vein of Jimi Hendrix, Sly Stone, and the funk bands of the 70's. He evolved into a masterful guitarist who could excel in rock and jazz as well as funk and R&B.

But comparing Prince to guitarists such as Eddie Van Halen, Steve Vai, and Joe Satriani wouldn't quite be fair, because while those guitarists were master shredders in rock and metal, they clearly have classical influences as well.

And then you have the blues guitarists like John Mayer, who has been compared to Stevie Ray Vaughan as a poor man's version. But the same things were said about Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, and Jeff Beck, because they emulated such blues heroes like B.B. King, Bo Diddley, and Buddy Guy. But Clapton, Page, and Beck all eveloved their own sound, and John Mayer is doing so now. I think it will be more interesting to see how much John Mayer evolves in ten years or so. He is very underrated now, especially since much of his recorded music is aimed at lite FM audiences and not rock stations.

Here's a clip of one of his most recent concerts:

[Edited 8/21/10 16:42pm]

ThreadBare said:

rialb said:

I have no idea who is "better" nor do I care. However, some folks are taking something that Prince said (he's embarrassed by some of his older playing) as proof that he is better now. That seems kind of naive. What else is Prince going to say? "Boy, I really was a much better player then." Of course not! It's just like how everytime an artist is promoting a new album they almost always say that it is their best. Maybe Prince is better now but if he wasn't it's not like he is ever going to admit it!

Such a brilliant point. Been meaning to say that for a while now.

Sorry. This is not brillant. This is bullshit.

Prince has been totally into his guitar playing for the last few years and there has never been as much guitar in his work on CD and live ever before.

I've followed Prince since 1982. And the Prince I saw live the last 8 times is a better, more mature, more diverse and more impressive guitar player now than he was back in the 80s.

ThreadBare said:

I just think his most inspirational playing was decades ago.

This is how I feel on the subject. Prince has never been in my top 10 guitarists list because in my opinion, he's not at that level. What he did have was a great tone and unique style there for a while. He could go back to that and no one would be mad at him for it. It suits him.

are you nuts...JOhn Mayer can't touch Prince. It is ridiculous to think so. His sound is so...so...so clean..and I mean that in a bad way.

Apparently JM sat in with Dr.Mambo'sCombo one night and the guys were NOT overly impressed although they did say he was good..just not great.

Come on...

ohYeeeeeah said:

ThreadBare said:

Such a brilliant point. Been meaning to say that for a while now.

Sorry this is bullshit.

Apology accepted.

[Edited 8/23/10 17:53pm]

BlaqueKnight said:

ThreadBare said:

I just think his most inspirational playing was decades ago.

This is how I feel on the subject. Prince has never been in my top 10 guitarists list because in my opinion, he's not at that level. What he did have was a great tone and unique style there for a while. He could go back to that and no one would be mad at him for it. It suits him.

That's pretty much how I feel. I think some of it has to do with my own growth as a musician and guitar lover, which I'll even credit Prince with influencing.

My longtime exposure to other cats -- Jeff Beck, Earl Klugh, Tuck Andress, Gene Bertoncini, Birelli Lagrene, Andy Levy, Eric Gale and Eric Gales, to name but a few -- has enabled me to appreciate a whole lot about folks' relative approaches to the instrument. P's a really good player, but his recent years have been more generic than what he threw down regularly in the '80s and '90s. Meanwhile, Mark Knopfler and Phil Keaggy still consistently blow my mind with their playing.

JoeyCococo said:

are you nuts...JOhn Mayer can't touch Prince. It is ridiculous to think so. His sound is so...so...so clean..and I mean that in a bad way.

Apparently JM sat in with Dr.Mambo'sCombo one night and the guys were NOT overly impressed although they did say he was good..just not great.

Come on...

Blacqueknight when you say Prince isn't at your top 10 list

of best guitar players because

he is not on that level.

What are parameters of that level .

Don't you think your opinion

is just a subjective observation?

Let's look at these primary aspects of guitar playing:

rhythm and lead guitar

in popular music(rock)

Rhythm guitar :When it comes to rhythm guitar Prince is

one of the best,he can school Steve Vai and Satriani .

i'm sure Satriani and Vai and Yngwie are not as flexibile rhythm guitar players as Prince.

Lead guitar:The only reason why Prince isn't mention as

other guitar players

is because guitar is just a one aspect of Prince's career,it's not the only

thing he is good at.

Prince isn't the fastest shreader on guitar but he is fast,comes up with

a lot of interesting ideas.

He have nice legatto and picking technique.

I don't know who is the best guitar player ...there is one in every crowd

but i know Prince still loves his guitar and he is still searching,Prince's best guitar

days are yet to come so enjoy the ride.

[Edited 8/23/10 18:01pm]

ohYeeeeeah said:

ThreadBare said:

Thanks, SFS.

Yeah, Prince's stuff has gotten sloppy, in recent years. His tone sounds generic live, and over-processed and cartoony on studio projects.

I wonder if it's related at all to the switch to Strats (the neck radius difference, the unimpressive tremolo work). It hasn't been a good move, IMO. A lot of times, they look too big for him. Maybe the smaller-scaled clouds with their more-familiar neck radius enabled him to be neater, faster and more comfortable.

I'd also love to know whether he's using stock, ceramic pickups in his strats. The overdriven sound isn't articulate at all. I'd like to hear him try out Kinmans or Fralins -- a more boutique approach to uncover the nuances of his playing might force him to be neater, too.

Have you seen Prince in Monte Carlo, Montreux or any recent shows cuz you guys would feel plain stupid if you could watch a quality DVD of these performances. His game has improved big time lately.

Prince himself has stated he plays the guitar a lot more now and he is eventually satisfied with the way he plays for the first time in his life.

He even told a belgian journalist in July he feels ASHAMED when he listens to guitar stuff he has recorded back in the 80s.

Sorry but that's what strikes everyone who has attended Prince gigs in the last 3 years: his guitar skills that are just plain amazing and have improved a lot lately.

And btw stop showing off like if you guys were killer guitar players. I'd love you to share the stage just 10 minutes with P so he could kick your ass. Listen to LotusFlow3r's tracks like Wall of Berlin, Dreamer, Back to the Lotus, he has never been as good as he is right now. Period.

[Edited 8/12/10 3:46am]

This statement is childsh and unwarranted. This is simply a discussion comparing the fundamentals of music technique of two artists. Granted, some degree of knowledge is required to understand these fundamentals (in both theory and practice), but that's no reason to go on the defensive and attack ideas or the posters here. Rather than being swayed by emotion, feeling threatened, and lashing out at vocabulary and theory you don't understand, why not sit back and take it all in? You might actually have the chance to enhance your understanding of basic music perameters, such as rhythm, texture, tone, harmonic function, ect. No one is attacking or deriding your hero here, it's just an objective discussion comparing 2 artists, not more, not less.

I can''t even get beyond a few pages of the thread; goodness the personal attacks are toooo much

(silently prays that basic music education will one day be re-introduced to our public schools on the way out of this thread )

ohYeeeeeah said:

ThreadBare said:

Such a brilliant point. Been meaning to say that for a while now.

Sorry. This is not brillant. This is bullshit.

Prince has been totally into his guitar playing for the last few years and there has never been as much guitar in his work on CD and live ever before.

I've followed Prince since 1982. And the Prince I saw live the last 8 times is a better, more mature, more diverse and more impressive guitar player now than he was back in the 80s.

Which part of what I said is bullshit?

You may be correct when you state that Prince is playing more guitar in recent years, especially on his albums, but that is hardly proof that he is playing better. More of something does not mean better. Referring specifically to live music, for me I don't think much of his recent playing (say the last ten years) compares favourably with his mid-late '80s sound. Technically he probably has improved as a player but I think he is lacking some of the passion of his earlier playing.