honer said:

Prince is a shit hot guitar player who has clearly got even better in recent years, a fukin deaf retard could tell you that.

John Mayer gargles balls, i've just checked out some of his shit on youtube and its about as good as Coldplay who also gargle balls

How real is that. Has anybody watched Prince's Hall of Fame solo on a song he didnt particularly care for? Freak it, play Dreamer. Theres a boot version of If I Had a Harem live in Vegas that will clear all this up. Bele dat

skywalker said:

JesusFreak said:

http://www.youtube.com/wa...ItWBwqLGMs

Dude Mayer has way more tricks up his sleave then Prince. Prince has the "wow" factor and showy tricks, where Mayer is more in depth in blues- he's schooled.

Heck Mayer spun circles around SLASH. He's a black horse alright

[Edited 8/11/10 11:43am]

That youtube link is all the proof you need. John Mayer is playing the white boy college version of be soulful or bluesy. It's not that he's not talented, but it is very much in the same vein of Jack Johnson or even Dave Matthews. It's what too many frat boys think is funky.

That link wasn't meant to be taken like that, it was to show his ability in interpretation. If you wanna see some true colors of his-

http://www.youtube.com/wa...NuAdB5oVrU

John Mayer is a dime a dozen guitar player found on street corners in Austin.

I like mayer... but all im gonna say is watch "purple house" Rave dvd....Prince will school the mases.

NDRU said:

skywalker said:

That youtube link is all the proof you need. John Mayer is playing the white boy college version of be soulful or bluesy. It's not that he's not talented, but it is very much in the same vein of Jack Johnson or even Dave Matthews. It's what too many frat boys think is funky.

the question was not if he was more funky on guitar than Prince

And that's not what I was specifically addressing. John Mayer plays how a million other dudes play guitar. Again, not to say he's not talented, but he is not special or unique.

JesusFreak said:

skywalker said:

That youtube link is all the proof you need. John Mayer is playing the white boy college version of be soulful or bluesy. It's not that he's not talented, but it is very much in the same vein of Jack Johnson or even Dave Matthews. It's what too many frat boys think is funky.

That link wasn't meant to be taken like that, it was to show his ability in interpretation. If you wanna see some true colors of his-

http://www.youtube.com/wa...NuAdB5oVrU

Showing me two clips of Jon Mayer playing over other people's songs just isn't that impressive.

Think about in 2004, at the Hall of Fame, when Prince played the solo on "while my guitar gently weeps". After Prince played it, the music world was knocked on it's ass. It was the talk of the town for months following.

Prince was covering one of the most iconic guitar solos ever, on a similarly iconic song, by the most well known group ever. Not only did Prince do the song justice, but he made it his own, and made jaws drop. He stole the show and woke the rest of the sleeping world up to his guitar skills. Jon Mayer just hasn't done anything like that yet. He played nicely at MJ's funeral though.

Again, I am not saying he cannot play. He's got skills...it's just not blowing me away. He's playing basic blues guitar solos/riffs. It's nothing that a whole slew of wanna be blues/rockers don't do everyday. Ever hear of Jonny Lang? He is from MN too and he was playing this type of thing when he was a kid. Bottom line: there's not much unique to Mayer. He is a good guitar player who has chops. In this day and age of no one playing instruments, what used to be "average" is now viewed as something special. So, can we let the "school this guy or that guy" talk end?

[Edited 8/11/10 18:48pm]

JonnyApplesauce said:

honer said:

Prince is a shit hot guitar player who has clearly got even better in recent years, a fukin deaf retard could tell you that.

John Mayer gargles balls, i've just checked out some of his shit on youtube and its about as good as Coldplay who also gargle balls

How real is that. Has anybody watched Prince's Hall of Fame solo on a song he didnt particularly care for? Freak it, play Dreamer. Theres a boot version of If I Had a Harem live in Vegas that will clear all this up. Bele dat

Oh yes Dreamer, that Voodoo Child ripoff. And the hall of fame performance of that George Harrison song .. it can pretty much be mastered by any guitar student in 1 month. His solo was only cool cuz of the hot doggin' that he did..like falling into the crowd etc... great performer but no innovator like Mayer on the guitar. Again.. check out Neon.

skywalker said:

JesusFreak said:

http://www.youtube.com/wa...ItWBwqLGMs

Dude Mayer has way more tricks up his sleave then Prince. Prince has the "wow" factor and showy tricks, where Mayer is more in depth in blues- he's schooled.

Heck Mayer spun circles around SLASH. He's a black horse alright

[Edited 8/11/10 11:43am]

That youtube link is all the proof you need. John Mayer is playing the white boy college version of be soulful or bluesy. It's not that he's not talented, but it is very much in the same vein of Jack Johnson or even Dave Matthews. It's what too many frat boys think is funky.

damn lol

WHAT? R U SERIOUS?

skywalker said:

Showing me two clips of Jon Mayer playing over other people's songs just isn't that impressive.

Think about in 2004, at the Hall of Fame, when Prince played the solo on "while my guitar gently weeps". After Prince played it, the music world was knocked on it's ass. It was the talk of the town for months following.

Prince was covering one of the most iconic guitar solos ever, on a similarly iconic song, by the most well known group ever. Not only did Prince do the song justice, but he made it his own, and made jaws drop. He stole the show and woke the rest of the sleeping world up to his guitar skills. Jon Mayer just hasn't done anything like that yet.

ThreadBare said:

sexyfunkystrange said:

No comparison!

Prince has an ultra distinctive tone. Many guitarists seek to emulate it. Its based on the tone of early Santana.

When you hear Princes playing, you dont have to see him to KNOW its him. His sound and style is very distinctive.

Mayer is an able guitarist, but not distinctive. He sounds like 50 other blues guitarists.

I will say though.

Prince's guitar playing in recent years though has fallen off somehwat. The sweet tone is still there, but when he solos...it sounds uninspired and run of the mill, compared to the old days.

Seasoned guitarists will know exactly what im talking about.

<--- seasoned guitarist agreeing with you on the "fallen off" point. I'd even contend that the tone has degraded. His overdriven tone is often harsh to me. He hasn't had a distinct, trademark sound to me since he lost the "molten glass" tone I associate with his 1980s/cloud tone (part of the reason I have the SOTT pic in my original post). P's playing is pretty rote, these days.

Actually, I may be inclined to agree with you on his tone being lost as well.

Youre right, there is more of that harsh over driven quality. I think i may have been referring more to his touch....more than his tone.

People here will say to listen to the SNL performance of Fury, or the Hall of FAme performance of My Guitar Gently Weeps, for proof of the contrary.

But those performances are perfect examples of what Im talking about.

One things that stands out particularly, are his scale runs.

They have become very sloppy. He just seems to double pick across the strings without really hitting the notes themselves.

Again one has to be a seasoned or professional guitarist to understand what Im saying. To an undiscerning fan, it simply may sound and LOOK great. Which is fine!

But to people who are seasoned guitarists, its our business to notice these things.

What about Prince's scale runs?

bigben07 said:

JonnyApplesauce said:

How real is that. Has anybody watched Prince's Hall of Fame solo on a song he didnt particularly care for? Freak it, play Dreamer. Theres a boot version of If I Had a Harem live in Vegas that will clear all this up. Bele dat

Oh yes Dreamer, that Voodoo Child ripoff. And the hall of fame performance of that George Harrison song .. it can pretty much be mastered by any guitar student in 1 month. His solo was only cool cuz of the hot doggin' that he did..like falling into the crowd etc... great performer but no innovator like Mayer on the guitar. Again.. check out Neon.

First of all its all hot dogging and if you dont hot dog going in the HOF then when do you? Dont think dressing like youre doing chores, standing still and half mumbling isnt as equally contrived . Somehow its supposed to mean youre more serious than someone with a tailor. Theres no denying John Meyer's very talented hes just not ready to see a 30 year vet whos changed music several times. The George Harrison song was their choice not his. If hed have done his own thing theyd still be wondering what just happened. Dont like Dreamer? Theres a library of other stuff to choose from.

1) I've referenced Prince's live playing, not only his studio output.

2) I'm not deriding Prince. A closer read of my original post shows me giving props to P throughout. No derision is there, save my saying Prince could still dust me if he had 3 strings and a chipped pick.

3) The RHOF solo was really pretty basic, not even one P's best solos. Take away the tomfoolery and showmanship (I'm not knocking showmanship), and it's a standard solo.

4) JM straight chops Prince in a live setting. I remain convinced.

skywalker said:

Threadbare: Part of the flaw in your argument is that you seem to be comparing John Mayer's live performances to Prince's studio work. For the most part, Prince's guitar genius is best showcased in a live setting.

Ignoring the flaw in your comparison, I don't think John Mayer could school Prince. For one, John Mayer prominently promotes/features himself as a guitar player. All of the time. John Mayer strives to have people know that he is good on guitar. Again, it's how he promotes himself.

Prince has notoriously undersold (and is notoriously underrated for) his guitar abilities...you go to a Prince show and he is liable to not even play guitar for half of the concert or more. It really wasn't until 2004 that Prince started getting major mainstream accolades for being such a badass on guitar.

[Edited 8/11/10 9:24am]

[Edited 8/11/10 9:54am]

Again, you're imagining the "flaw." I highlight Prince's tone and skills in a live setting (a la SOTT -- even posted a picture to help people get a sense of a specific era of live performance and sound).

Second, there's a difference between talking about critical acclaim of Prince's guitar skills, and my comparison of his skills and sound from the '80s, '90s and today. I've always dug Prince's guitar skills, and have studied them exhaustively.

funkyandy said:

Any reason why the OP has to deride one person...just in order to boost another up?...

Always a dichotomy for these people....better, worse...greater, lesser...

Show me where I deride Prince.

sexyfunkystrange said:

ThreadBare said:

<--- seasoned guitarist agreeing with you on the "fallen off" point. I'd even contend that the tone has degraded. His overdriven tone is often harsh to me. He hasn't had a distinct, trademark sound to me since he lost the "molten glass" tone I associate with his 1980s/cloud tone (part of the reason I have the SOTT pic in my original post). P's playing is pretty rote, these days.

Actually, I may be inclined to agree with you on his tone being lost as well.

Youre right, there is more of that harsh over driven quality. I think i may have been referring more to his touch....more than his tone.

People here will say to listen to the SNL performance of Fury, or the Hall of FAme performance of My Guitar Gently Weeps, for proof of the contrary.

But those performances are perfect examples of what Im talking about.

One things that stands out particularly, are his scale runs.

They have become very sloppy. He just seems to double pick across the strings without really hitting the notes themselves.

Again one has to be a seasoned or professional guitarist to understand what Im saying. To an undiscerning fan, it simply may sound and LOOK great. Which is fine!

But to people who are seasoned guitarists, its our business to notice these things.

Thanks, SFS.

Yeah, Prince's stuff has gotten sloppy, in recent years. His tone sounds generic live, and over-processed and cartoony on studio projects.

I wonder if it's related at all to the switch to Strats (the neck radius difference, the unimpressive tremolo work). It hasn't been a good move, IMO. A lot of times, they look too big for him. Maybe the smaller-scaled clouds with their more-familiar neck radius enabled him to be neater, faster and more comfortable.

I'd also love to know whether he's using stock, ceramic pickups in his strats. The overdriven sound isn't articulate at all. I'd like to hear him try out Kinmans or Fralins -- a more boutique approach to uncover the nuances of his playing might force him to be neater, too.

So then shouldnt this be in the artists forum and directed to professional guitarists?

JonnyApplesauce said:

So then shouldnt this be in the artists forum and directed to professional guitarists?

Nope, I'm comparing Prince and another guitarist.

JesusFreak said:

http://www.youtube.com/wa...ItWBwqLGMs

Dude Mayer has way more tricks up his sleave then Prince. Prince has the "wow" factor and showy tricks, where Mayer is more in depth in blues- he's schooled.

Heck Mayer spun circles around SLASH. He's a black horse alright

[Edited 8/11/10 11:43am]

Prince is not a bluesman mate so the comparison is plain stupid in the first place.

I hear some white blues in what Mayer does. And he does it very well.

Ask Mayer to play Funk, Jazz or Rock a la Hendrix. Prince will blow him away.

Prince can school Mayer on Funk or rhythm guitar anytime.

ThreadBare said:

sexyfunkystrange said:

Actually, I may be inclined to agree with you on his tone being lost as well.

Youre right, there is more of that harsh over driven quality. I think i may have been referring more to his touch....more than his tone.

People here will say to listen to the SNL performance of Fury, or the Hall of FAme performance of My Guitar Gently Weeps, for proof of the contrary.

But those performances are perfect examples of what Im talking about.

One things that stands out particularly, are his scale runs.

They have become very sloppy. He just seems to double pick across the strings without really hitting the notes themselves.

Again one has to be a seasoned or professional guitarist to understand what Im saying. To an undiscerning fan, it simply may sound and LOOK great. Which is fine!

But to people who are seasoned guitarists, its our business to notice these things.

Thanks, SFS.

Yeah, Prince's stuff has gotten sloppy, in recent years. His tone sounds generic live, and over-processed and cartoony on studio projects.

I wonder if it's related at all to the switch to Strats (the neck radius difference, the unimpressive tremolo work). It hasn't been a good move, IMO. A lot of times, they look too big for him. Maybe the smaller-scaled clouds with their more-familiar neck radius enabled him to be neater, faster and more comfortable.

I'd also love to know whether he's using stock, ceramic pickups in his strats. The overdriven sound isn't articulate at all. I'd like to hear him try out Kinmans or Fralins -- a more boutique approach to uncover the nuances of his playing might force him to be neater, too.

Have you seen Prince in Monte Carlo, Montreux or any recent shows cuz you guys would feel plain stupid if you could watch a quality DVD of these performances. His game has improved big time lately.

Prince himself has stated he plays the guitar a lot more now and he is eventually satisfied with the way he plays for the first time in his life.

He even told a belgian journalist in July he feels ASHAMED when he listens to guitar stuff he has recorded back in the 80s.

Sorry but that's what strikes everyone who has attended Prince gigs in the last 3 years: his guitar skills that are just plain amazing and have improved a lot lately.

And btw stop showing off like if you guys were killer guitar players. I'd love you to share the stage just 10 minutes with P so he could kick your ass. Listen to LotusFlow3r's tracks like Wall of Berlin, Dreamer, Back to the Lotus, he has never been as good as he is right now. Period.

[Edited 8/12/10 3:46am]

ThreadBare said:

funkyandy said:

Any reason why the OP has to deride one person...just in order to boost another up?...

Always a dichotomy for these people....better, worse...greater, lesser...

Show me where I deride Prince.

How about this?..."I'm hearing swirls and puddedda-ruddedda-screechc-chc-chc-chc-chc-ch. I'm hearing car doughnuts and ducks quacking".

So, I repeat...for whatever reason you really feel a need to push JM over Prince...on this guitar issue, focusing on your meagre SOTT example.

Doesn't make sense...if your issue is technical ability only, why not compare JM to a Vai, a Satriani etc?...and then you're going off ridiculously (in my opinion) about guitar tech; effects etc...lol

Many guitar enthusiasts would disagree with you over the technical ability of the 2 artists...notwithstanding the emotional aspects of the music which arguably is more important since we are not machines.

These are only your opinions...plus whatever motivated you to start this 'Better than, worse than 'schooling' thread'.

You CAN'T convince us...you CAN start a johnmayer.org

(If the domain name isn't taken).

[Edited 8/12/10 4:20am]

ohYeeeeeah said:

ThreadBare said:

Thanks, SFS.

Yeah, Prince's stuff has gotten sloppy, in recent years. His tone sounds generic live, and over-processed and cartoony on studio projects.

I wonder if it's related at all to the switch to Strats (the neck radius difference, the unimpressive tremolo work). It hasn't been a good move, IMO. A lot of times, they look too big for him. Maybe the smaller-scaled clouds with their more-familiar neck radius enabled him to be neater, faster and more comfortable.

I'd also love to know whether he's using stock, ceramic pickups in his strats. The overdriven sound isn't articulate at all. I'd like to hear him try out Kinmans or Fralins -- a more boutique approach to uncover the nuances of his playing might force him to be neater, too.

Have you seen Prince in Monte Carlo, Montreux or any recent shows cuz you guys would feel plain stupid if you could watch a quality DVD of these performances. His game has improved big time lately.

Prince himself has stated he plays the guitar a lot more now and he is eventually satisfied with the way he plays for the first time in his life.

He even told a belgian journalist in July he feels ASHAMED when he listens to guitar stuff he has recorded back in the 80s.

Sorry but that's what strikes everyone who has attended Prince gigs in the last 3 years: his guitar skills that are just plain amazing and have improved a lot lately.

And btw stop showing off like if you guys were killer guitar players. I'd love you to share the stage just 10 minutes with P so he could kick your ass. Listen to LotusFlow3r's tracks like Wall of Berlin, Dreamer, Back to the Lotus, he has never been as good as he is right now. Period.

[Edited 8/12/10 3:46am]

Again, throughout my posts here, I've stated Prince basically could forget more than I'll ever learn about the guitar.

Sorry one can't discuss Prince objectively here without chipping at the altar at which some folks here kneel. We disagree, as I knew some here would.

I would love for Prince to release live material that shows just how stellar his live playing has grown in recent years. Because I'm truly a longtime fan of his playing.

And, for those who keep asking, yes, I've seen snippets of his playing in recent years. This is an informed assertion -- just one that some folks think is incredibly stupid.

I can live with that.

funkyandy said:

ThreadBare said:

Show me where I deride Prince.

How about this?..."I'm hearing swirls and puddedda-ruddedda-screechc-chc-chc-chc-chc-ch. I'm hearing car doughnuts and ducks quacking".

So, I repeat...for whatever reason you really feel a need to push JM over Prince...on this guitar issue, focusing on your meagre SOTT example.

Doesn't make sense...if your issue is technical ability only, why not compare JM to a Vai, a Satriani etc?...and then you're going off ridiculously (in my opinion) about guitar tech; effects etc...lol

Many guitar enthusiasts would disagree with you over the technical ability of the 2 artists...notwithstanding the emotional aspects of the music which arguably is more important since we are not machines.

These are only your opinions...plus whatever motivated you to start this 'Better than, worse than 'schooling' thread'.

You CAN'T convince us...you CAN start a johnmayer.org

(If the domain name isn't taken).

[Edited 8/12/10 4:20am]

I CAN discuss aspects of P's career in relation to other artist's careers. You describe the sound effects that end Planet Earth and Colonized Mind.

I've heard some describe that effect sound as Fred Flinstone stopping his car with his bare feet.

Comprehensive discussion about something I and another Orger know about. Didn't mean to make you feel excluded by the detail.

As for my motivation, excitement about a guitarist. Something I used to feel for Prince's playing, years ago.

ohYeeeeeah said:

ThreadBare said:

To all the folks who say JM couldn't school P, I ask, who can?

What living guitarist do you think could teach him something or is "better?"

Jeff Beck.

Joe Satriani

ThreadBare said:

1) I've referenced Prince's live playing, not only his studio output.

2) I'm not deriding Prince. A closer read of my original post shows me giving props to P throughout. No derision is there, save my saying Prince could still dust me if he had 3 strings and a chipped pick.

3) The RHOF solo was really pretty basic, not even one P's best solos. Take away the tomfoolery and showmanship (I'm not knocking showmanship), and it's a standard solo.

4) JM straight chops Prince in a live setting. I remain convinced.

You began by talking about studio sounds and sonic technique with Prince, after only referencing John Mayer live:

Sorry, dude. I hear 20ten, Lotus, Planet Earth and other recent albums, and I'm hearing a ton of signal processing and effects. I'm hearing swirls and puddedda-ruddedda-screechc-chc-chc-chc-chc-ch. I'm hearing car doughnuts and ducks quacking.

The RHOF solo: Take away the showmanship? That's half of what makes a guitar solo in a live setting. It's the passion coming through. At a certain point, guitar playing is just as much about how you play as it is what you play.

If Hendrix would've spent his time behind a curtain playing the exact same notes rather than making ugly faces and setting his guitar on fire he wouldn't be nearly the guitar god/legend that he is today.

I am glad that you are in love with John Mayer's playing. Go around and tell people that he chops Prince in a live setting if you want. However, it seems to me that you a talking about blues technique rather than overall guitar playing. I have yet to see Mayer play funk or a bass guitar.

Lastly, I stand by my assessment that, while John Mayer has skills, he is a bland/basic guitar player who doesn't have a style that stands out from a lot of others. I guess that's the main point...technically John Mayer is good on guitar, but style wise (which any great guitarist needs) he is lacking big time.

[Edited 8/12/10 6:45am]

What makes a guitarist truly great is if they create great songs with it..Which is very much true with Prince and not true at all for Mayer.

Five words: While My Guitar Gently Weeps. Incredible. And I also think that his guitar playing on the Rave 2000 dvd was incredible. At times you could see Lenny looking at Prince like "What the F*ck? Damn, that's good!" LOL...

I may get a lot of complaints, but I'm bringing up one cat, who is a country singer who plays the hell out of his guitar... Keith Urban. He has a song called Stupid Boy that starts off slow, but when he kicks in with his guitar it is awesome. Not a big country fan, but this dude can play! And pretty solid on piano. Okay, bring on the replies "Please Be Gentle"

Johny Lang is better guitar player then John Mayer does that means Lang is better then Prince?

Prince plays guitar better then ever before.

Mayer is an ok Ray Vaughn Clapton copy cat but nothing more.

In his dream he could.............in this dimension? Hell no.