murph said:

Is pedophilia included in the equation?

MOL said:

Mustwe really bring that up?

MOL said:

I'll say it again...I don't believe that MJ was a pedophile...I've stated this many times...But I do believe he had an unhealthy obsession with children (and wanting to be a child) and was a bit stupid when it came to showcasing his obsession in public...
[Edited 4/3/10 13:54pm]

murph said:

Exactly.

He shoulda left those damn kids alone after 1993, but nooooo... i say its his own damn fault.

BabyBeMine said:

Baby, you are in need of attention, aren't you?

One thing is to ask. Another is to blackmail, pressure, hound, harass and stalk. It got to the point where 2 days after Michael was accused of pedophilia, Jermaine and Joe flied to Bangkok just to pressure Michael to sign a contract. It got to the point where everybody realised the family was hounding him. It got to the point Michael had to be protected from Joe. It's different.

Don't be so naive: the family didn't just ocasionaly ask him to tour. You know damn well the family hounded him without mercy. Even Joe and Jermaine admitted this. You are denying the obvious, Baby. I don't want to start an ugly discussion but let's be realistic.

You are talking about guys who are sex addicts, wife and kid abusers (one of them was even convicted for beating the shit out of his wife and kid), jobless, penniless, deadbeats, extortionists. Guys who abandon their own children. Guys who seem to have zero decency. And you want me to believe they worried about Michel when they don't even take care of their own kids? Damnit. It' not about being a MJ fan, now. It got to the point they sold false rumors to the press . It got to the point they were so desperate they sued him. It got to the point their only source of income was Michael. And they wanted more and more and more.

Would you tour with a druggie? Besides, why did the family denied Michael was a druggie in 2008? If they wanted an intervention and were so worried because he was being controlled, then why did he spend an entire day with his family one month before he died? Michael spent time with his family, but it was impossible to spend a lot of time. It has something to do with losing patience because your monstruous, loser brothers and dad want to, as always, leecch off of you and use you.

Don't justify the distance Michael kept from them with being or not addicted. The reasons are very well documented: he was nothing more than a cash cow to too many people inside his own family.

What exactly seeing your sister just occasionaly has to do with the whole thing? Stop the desperate arguments and face the truth: most members of Michael's fam are nothing but greedy, self-serving monsters. Do you even know some of the things those guys did to Michael?

At least, don't be so extreme and admit some things, Baby.
[Edited 4/3/10 14:13pm]

Okay.....so let's bring the discussion back to the reason we like/love the man..his music!


I always wanted to hear Michael's version of 'Joy'.. 'Someone Put Your Hand Out' always reminds me of that song.

murph said:[quote]

WaterInYourBath said:

Ahh ha, lol! That's where we disagree. See, you're agreeing that Michael needed the pills for pain, but then are assuming that the pain eventually stopped/was cured and he continued taking the pills voluntarily. I'm assuming that the pain unfortunately did NOT stop/was never cured, and he continued to need the pills for actual pain-blocking effects. Which assumption is true, we do not know. However, I'm going with my theory. Your idea is totally logical, but I don't see that as being the case with him.

And Mike going to a rehab center in '93 (for a "painkiller addiction" he assumed he had because of Elizabeth Taylor's advice) doesn't necessarily negate him actually needing the pills for injuries during later years, which is the time frame I'm thinking about ('97-'09).

murph said:

Worshipper.

PYTDee said:

Me too. I want to hear MJ's demo to Joy and the original version to Someone Put Your Hand Out

murph said:

I know in his heart he was a big kid and could probably relate to kids more than most adults can, but I do think it was a little weird that he preferred their company than someone around his age.

MOL said:

.....

MOL said:

You're the VERY LAST person to call someone a worshipper.

NastradumasKid said:

MOL is past a worshipper....lol

NastradumasKid said:

I wasn't talking to you. I was trying to annoy murph.

murph said:

Judging by their past arguments about MJ with Lowkey and some other people, I would have to agree.

MOL said:

Of course you weren't, I just felt the need to say something. BTW, annoying people in arguments isn't gonna get you anyway.

NastradumasKid said:

And why is that? Because I dared to defend Michael agaisnt a guy who was claiming Joe Jackson was the sole reason Michael was successful?

Wow, I like your criteria.

NastradumasKid said:

No need for the advice. But thank you anyway. I was just trying to add a soft spot in order to end my polite discussion with murph. Annoy, in this context, has a positive meaning.

But thank you very much for your amazingly enlightened advice.
[Edited 4/3/10 14:18pm]

MOL said:

Wow, that is so wrong! Another thing, It's kind of true that Joe Jackson did get them somewhere, but it was MJ that was keeping the group together. You talk about Joe like he isn't MJ's father, I'm not defending Joe, but he was MJ's father and I'm not saying his choice of discipline was right but after all he was a black man born and raised that way!

MOL said:

You're welcome.
[Edited 4/3/10 14:21pm]

seeingvoices12 said:

And there you have it.

seeingvoices12 said:

LOL!!!!!

ViintageJunkiie said:

Is it true that some fans have it already?

----

I love listening to stuff like this.. I wish we had more of this!I'm just fascinated in knowing his creative process lol

No MJ talk?

BabyBeMine said:

I find it intresting that people even bother to argue against someone who creates scenarios out of their head rather than rely on facts.



That's because it was the image he created for himself in public. That Bashir documentary was just a mess. Even though he invited families (Omar Bhatti and Frank Cascio) on tour, there are many accounts of Michael hanging out with adults and meeting with women. People make it seem like these kids were his best friends and he confided in them. I think the media likes to downplay his interest in women or simply make it seem like he's repulsed by them.

sleepyq said:

Michael should have been more responsible. But, let's think positive: at least, he was judged and acquited. If he had stopped back in 93, he would have never had the opportunity of making the world hear the "not guilty" veredict.

Still, Michael was so damn stupid.

PYTDee said:

A lot of fans (mostly collectors) have dozens of songs that we've never heard. For an expensive fee, you can buy the track(s).

I also love hearing demos. Those are the best. I play the demos to Thriller more than I play the actual album.

MyLuv229 said:

I see what you mean!

This place is going crazy ugly.




[Edited 4/3/10 15:11pm]