NDRU said:

dude, watch your tone.

AlexdeParis said:[quote]

Graycap23 said:

Mj was great at what he does/did.....but I fail 2 see why it should be overstated.

Imago said:

Graycap23 said:

I think the question posed in this thread is great though.
So often, when an artist passes away there's a certain amount of respect that is given to them, but the media always goes overboard with it. Elvis, Jim Morrison, Kurt Cobain--all have had their fare share of this. Kurt Cobain fans fail to see that he may have been a decent song writer and part of an important phenomenon, but that much of his success was due to market trends, pop trends, and a healthy dose of luck.


Even within fan communities of living artists, like Prince, it's very difficult to give an honest, objective opinion of his without being labelled a "hater".
I'm quick to point out things I don't like about Prince's music, and I'm a fan

Imago said:

Wait, so you're not saying the music doesn't stand up on its own without videos? I guess I'm not understanding. Oh well.

Graycap23 said:

...and I'm failing to see how it's being overstated.

AlexdeParis said:

well, we agree on that.

AlexdeParis said:

Comments like this:
Mj was a great MUSICIAN, (he was NOT a musician)
Mj changed music, (he changed the Video medium not music)
I could go on, but hopefully u get the point.

AlexdeParis said:

I think he's saying the music does stand up, but that the music was only very good pop music, not an incredible phenomenon.

Michael as a performer & video star who arrived at just the right time was definitely a phenomenon.

So take away Michael the performer and what you are left with is some nice pop music. Very good pop music. Not a document of incredible innovations in music.
[Edited 7/22/09 11:16am]

Graycap23 said:

I can't agree with that. Singers are musicians in many ways and by all accounts he clearly understood music.


I'll agree with you there.

NDRU said:

I guess I just don't see where/why the innovation disclaimer came into it. Saying the music stands up answers the question AFAIC.

AlexdeParis said:

What I am saying is, the music, and just the music in NOT as good without the videos in my opinion. I still dig the music, but not as much. A song like "Beat It" really sound dated as many of his post 1983 material does.
[Edited 7/22/09 11:23am]

AlexdeParis said:[quote]

Graycap23 said:

lol.....singers are NOT musicians.....nurses are NOT Doctors.....

Graycap23 said:

Yes, I understand what you're saying. I completely disagree. I just can't figure out if Imago agrees with you or me.

Graycap23 said:

That's an awful analogy.

Timmy84 said:

Yeah, I love marvin, however There is something about Will you be there that I cannot explain, the melody, The way he sings, the atmosphere of the song, the last spoken part of the song, and its impact, its easily one of his best songs and the best track on dangerous, A stroke of genius

AlexdeParis said:

I think it's the original question of this thread. There are a lot of bands/musicians who made a lot of good songs. In my opinion they did it as well as Michael. But they were not the sensations that he was. So the question was, is the music what made it happen or was it the videos/performing?

I think it was both (the music is really good), but I think it was more about the performing.

For Anyone on says that Mj is NOT a musician, I say one thing, LAY OFF THE DRUGS ..DUh.

seeingvoices12 said:

What instruments did Mj play? Maybe I've missed something last 50 times I've seen him LIVE.

AlexdeParis said:

So wait. You're all over the place here.



First you said, "I'm trying to understand how that's a bad thing. It just comes across as typical music snobbery. Yes, I prefer Michael Jackson to Frank Zappa; so what?"

Then when we all said I never said it was a bad thing, you harped on my tone by highlighting my use of the word "but" below.



Mid-level star. Nowhere on the Thriller level.

His voice is great. His music is catchy. But it's "sing along" music.
MJ is a media star--not an artist whose music is to be studied.










You're just trying to get the last word aren't you ?

NDRU said:

I think the problem is that folks view this mindset as "music snobbery".
It's like saying a Graphic Novelist isn't the same thing as Bill Shakespear. Well, duh. But that doesn't mean Graphic Novels like the Watchmen aren't great on their own merit.

I think we're all talking past each other at this point though.

NDRU said:

Now we're getting somewhere! See, I was reading the original question as something personal. Like "would you like Michael Jackson's music if there weren't any videos." I think it's clear Gray would answer both questions the same, but I'd answer them very differently. Yes, I think the videos played a big part in propelling MJ to international stardom. However, I think the music is phenomenal by itself.

Graycap23 said:

Since when you have to pick an instrument to be a musician, What a silly anology.

seeingvoices12 said:

Erm. I'm pretty sure analogy is being used wrong in that sentence.
I just can't get past that.

seeingvoices12 said:

lol.....I think u are seeing more than just voices.

Imago said:

lol.....I think I'm starting 2 understand the term "Floon".

Imago said:

Read the post right under yours. I think I have it figured out.

Imago said:

Why you commented on that silly thing without answering the question , I made a mistake, Silly theory, are you satisfied now?

AlexdeParis said:

It was not personal on any level. Just an observation as I was listening 2 his material.

seeingvoices12 said:

I've read that sentence 3 times and it still doesn't make any sense.