badujunkie said:

Too bad it doesn't stand up to the facts. Mariah is 35 and her sexuality is a complete joke among non-fans, too. Yes, the SB was an idiotic thing to do and Janet will always be known for it, but she still managed to shift more in the US than both Madonna and Mariah with NO MTV or RADIO SUPPORT at all (this is what Cinnie meant in his comment above). People didn't reject her - the media did, because she cost them money. Howard Stern supports Janet and has been fighting battles with the FCC for decades now.

Michael has never been a handicap for Janet - otherwise the janet. album would have bombed completely. Well, it didn't.
[Edited 12/17/05 17:35pm]

VoicesCarry said:

"Too bad it doesn't stand up to the facts. Mariah is 35 and her sexuality is a complete joke among non-fans, too"...that is not a fact.

also i remember seeing all nite don't stop on vh1 several times. and just a little while got a lot of radio support in its first week. but because it was a crap single it bombed. and i want you was in rotation on vh1 and bet. so...

badujunkie said:

Yes, budu, non-fans pretty much find Mariah's attempts to be sexy very lame. Why do you think she gets so much flack for it?

No, I'm sorry. You do not know the facts. JALW debuted at #45 (a great debut) based on airplay. In its second week of release, it received a complete radio blackout, which was strictly enforced by Clear Channel and the other conglomerates. The fans called and requested and they were told "that record is not being played". You do not have a #45 debut and then slip off the face of the earth in your second week - even American Life did not do this.

And since when is VH1 and BET = MTV?! BET was pretty much the only media base that gave her any support whatsoever. All Nite (Don't Stop) should have been a huge hit, plain and simple - it didn't even chart. And there you go.
[Edited 12/17/05 17:39pm]

VoicesCarry said:

blanket statements about opinions of others aren't facts. im sure mariah fans find her sexy and that there are some straight men on the planet who don't give a fuck about her music but want to sleep with her.

badujunkie said:

Well, that's why I said "non-fans". And I think you know what I mean about her sexuality being a joke - ever see the Loverboy video? Yeah. She only reignited her career when she put some clothes on and regained some of her respect. Since Rainbow's ridiculous cover, it hadn't been the same.
[Edited 12/17/05 17:40pm]

With the right album, I think Janet can make a good comeback. Yes, the Tittygate scandal has scarred her, but I think if she puts out a spectacular album, she'll overcome the obstacles.

Just think of Mariah's situation(hell, even Madonna's) and you'll see that anything is possible.

newskin69 said:

true dat.

VoicesCarry said:

thank god you're back to argue with
just kidding

badujunkie said:

I knew that was coming. I know that Janet's next album will sell better because nipplegate will be forgetten. Hopefully the new album will be worth owning and she doesn't just get crunk to sell CDs.

badujunkie said:

IDJ's success with Mariah is the result of brilliant marketing and a return to form, since from what I hear she's still scrate . It's Like That was a soft, safe reintroduction to the urban market and then they unleashed WBT, which was undeniable. Brilliant stuff.

Oh, and they hooked her up with that Vogue dude to learn how to dress. It worked, but now she's back to her slutty outfits.
[Edited 12/17/05 17:51pm]

VoicesCarry said:

scrate? did i miss that memo?

WBT was undeniable. but the other singles suck ass. i cant believe dont forget about us is even in the top 50! crap!

badujunkie said:

Scrate crazy. You look at her, and you can believe it. She looks like she's been on lithium or some shit since the breakdown.

DFAU is just a lame-ass rehash of WBT, with the typical JD production. It's going to be #1 next week - she tied Elvis.

VoicesCarry said:

ELVIS and...MARIAH CAREY?????....wtf????
i dont understand. it has to be something that she and her label(s) strategize...i don't know ANY fans of hers. ANY. it just doesnt make sense. all the great female artists of 80s/90s/00s who are great singers, songwriters, and/or entertainers...

Madonna
Janet Jackson
Annie Lennox
Tina Turner
Whitney Houston
TLC
Lauryn Hill
Alanis Morrisette
Anita Baker
Brandy
Monica
etc. etc.

...and Mariah is on top?? HOW?

badujunkie said:

Because Sony payola went a long way to establishing her career, and she's a very safe choice for conglomerate radio. Mariah's music is like oatmeal - when in doubt, it's safe.
[Edited 12/17/05 18:01pm]

VoicesCarry said:

it's just so wrong. she is so...talented as a singer but AVERAGE in every other way. i can't imagine what it's like to sit through an interview with her or a whole concert or even a whole album. she's such a bore and really bland onstage not to mention her albums are all indistinguishable. it's just pathetic that she's on top of the music industry. she's had MAYBE 5 or 6 good songs over 15 years.

badujunkie said:

Even her really great songs are all samples

Oh, and she really believes her own hype, which is the worst. I've read recent interviews with her, and She can spin you that fucking rags-to-riches-bi-racial-woe-is-me story in about 1 minute and have the interviewer under her spell, it's pathetic. She defuses all questions by answering them before they can be asked. She knows what she's doing. Any woman who can get away with calling her fans "lambs" (sheep for the slaughter?) is a grand manipulator. She plays it safe 100% of the time, and that's why she's so successful. So was Perry Como.
[Edited 12/17/05 18:09pm]

VoicesCarry said:

Mariah IS a great business woman for sure. But she isn't interesting, unique, pretty, sexy (well, maybe a little), original, humourous, innovative, or cool.

badujunkie said:

You have no idea how appealing those descriptors are to a large proportion of the population. Wasn't Friends on for 10 years?

at this post, hating on Mariah aint going to make Janet any skinnier or popular again. someone been sexy is all relative, some people may not like Mariah's look and some people may not be into a 200 pound chick who looks Michael jackson circa "bad" album


.
[Edited 12/17/05 23:18pm]

Janet will always be edgier and more influential than Mariah, but in 2005, no one wants "edgy" or "influential". They all want "safe" and "familiar".

In 10 years, though, people will wonder why "All Nite (Don't Stop)" wasn't a hit and why "Don't Forget About Us" was.

Bland and predictable is the order of the day, sadly.

Axchi696 said:

some people just like Mariah's music, some don't. why is your taste/opinion so superior? It's only two years and no one remembers anything from DamitaJo.

I think the point is when Mariah, Madonna, Whitney or Britney fall, the media is still interested, the problem with Janet right now is, I don't doubt she can deliver a great album but no one cares anymore. but she's never ever really been that popular anyway so we can't really put her in that league, I think Janet right now is as interesting to the media as Toni Braxton. Toni had an amazing album (LIBRA) and look where that went.

but I won't say she can't do it, after all she is sleeping the head of her label. but so did LIL KIM
and JD is like Missy Elliot, they can deliver a great track, but never let them have control of a whole album or artist.

.
[Edited 12/17/05 23:53pm]

twink69 said:

Damn, what crack you been smokin', twink? Janet sold 125 million records and she ain't that popular - who the fuck knew! And Janet is a celeb on the level of Toni fucking Braxton? Check your hate at the door.

twink69 said:

So did MARIAH CAREY. Janet doesn't need JD to make an album, thanks - she's had her OWN contract for 20 years and SHE's more of an asset to HIM at Virgin than the other way around. Why the fuck you think he got the job? JD is only executive producer on this album, anyway - so far as I know he has not produced a single track.
[Edited 12/18/05 4:23am]

twink69 said:

By the same token, hating on Janet won't make Mariah's music relevant or interesting again, or change anyone's opinion on here, so why you bothered to enter the thread in the first place is beyond me. Stop giving lambs a bad name.
[Edited 12/18/05 4:34am]

It's a shame people can't discuss Janet without comparing her to Mariah and Madonna.

What do Madonna's and Mariah's sales numbers have to do with Janet?

jayaredee said:

Ask badu - he opened that can of worms in the second post! But it was gonna happen, anyway.

badujunkie said:

Irrelevant, though i'm sure she'll sell AL past 1million upon her death when record stores put on a Madonna death day sales.

badujunkie said:

I'm not a Mariah fan but she manages to have her fans (and gain new ones...I know a few of the girls at the classes I taught liked her and either wanted her new disc or had it). Yes, she not only benefited from payola (which we can only make claims about) but also very deeply disounted sell through singles (which I and others saw!).

twink69 said:

Ouch! I agree, though. I think DJ was a mistep and Janet will come back strong. Let's keep this sort of on topic is right.

jayaredee said:

how is it irrelevant when everyone always pits the 'pop divas' against one another in the press? and fans of madonna vs. fans of mariah vs. fans of janet...they're the 3 that have made it into the 00s who were around and ruling the world of pop back in 1990. there will always be competition between the three of them...and whiteny if she ever makes a comeback. don't play like you didn't know that!

jayaredee said:

What? Maybe if Madonna died close to when the album came out, it would sell a million in the US...ain't happening now.