independent and unofficial
Prince fan community
Welcome! Sign up or enter username and password to remember me
Forum jump
Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Nas - Coon Pinic (These are our heroes) : Does Nas Have a point?
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Page 3 of 3 <123
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Reply #60 posted 02/18/05 12:19pm

jjhunsecker

avatar

Soulchild82 said:

jjhunsecker said:



You say that Mariah and Slash are considered 'White", but by whom ? I've never heard eithe of them deny that they had a Black parent. As for Tiger, why should he let others define him, and force him to essentially deny his Asian mother and her culture and it's importance in his life. I think some people may want to choose sides based on the environment that they're in. For example, a bi-racial person living in, say Harlem or Compton, may want to identify more as Black, as opposed to a bi-racial person who's in a more integrated or multi-cultural environment.
With more bi-racial children being born, these issues will surface. But it's time we acknowledge that this is the 21st Century, and to put the "One-Drop" rule, and divisions into Octaroons, and Quadroons, etc to rest. Time to move on ...

And I have some personal interest in the subject. I'm Black , and my wife is White. We live in a very integrated Multi-cultural environment. Our young child (who is really too young to fully understand these issues), says "I'm a little bit Black and a little bit White". We want him to be proud of and comfortable with all aspects of his heritage and background, and not to let anybody else define him or put him into a box



Intresting take on handling that situation with children. However, you mention the one drop rule. But it is very different when half of your DNA is Black. that is waay more than one drop. Also the comment about if you lived in Harlem or Compton is a little disturbing. Because if you lived in SOuth Georgia you'd still be considered black. Many times I find that you are accpeted a little faster by the black community because they still see you as black for the most part different yes but still black. but in the white community you are always gonna be different if you are mixed.you will never be considered white, Mixed maybe, black maybe, but never white. THis thread is turning to that old movie imitation of life LOL
[Edited 2/18/05 11:40am]
[Edited 2/18/05 11:42am]


My comment about living in Harlem or Compton was referring to how a bi-racial person may choose to define themselves, not on how others would percieve them . Living in a predominatly Black area, a bi-racial person person, for a variety of reasons may consider themselves "just Black ". Of course, many Whites may view a mixed person as "Just Black" as well .
#SOCIETYDEFINESU
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #61 posted 02/19/05 4:23pm

Supernova

avatar

VanitySixx said:

Mariah and Slash are considered white.

Mariah is considered White by who?
This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #62 posted 02/19/05 7:15pm

TheOrgerFormer
lyKnownAs

Supernova said:

VanitySixx said:

Mariah and Slash are considered white.

Mariah is considered White by who?
lol
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #63 posted 02/20/05 3:09am

Janfriend

jjhunsecker said:

VanitySixx said:



.

And Tiger...well he's not black but, Caublacasian remember??? That says it all right there you know, its just so sad when you can't love and accept who and what you are. cool


Well , Tiger's father is part White, part Black, and part Native American, and his mother is Asian. He wants to acknowledge all aspects of his ethnicity, so what's so sad about that? Why should he deny any part of who he is , and just say that he was Black ?


The question is: what Black American isn't part White, part Black, and part Native American?
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #64 posted 02/20/05 3:17am

Janfriend

Supernova said:

VanitySixx said:

Mariah and Slash are considered white.

Mariah is considered White by who?


White people.

She herself said that, in England especially, people would ask her "Why do you work with these black artists?" She said they didn't get it. Tommy Motoloa considered her white and encouraged her not to wear light colors
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #65 posted 02/20/05 3:21am

Janfriend

Soulchild82 said:

jjhunsecker said:



You say that Mariah and Slash are considered 'White", but by whom ? I've never heard eithe of them deny that they had a Black parent. As for Tiger, why should he let others define him, and force him to essentially deny his Asian mother and her culture and it's importance in his life. I think some people may want to choose sides based on the environment that they're in. For example, a bi-racial person living in, say Harlem or Compton, may want to identify more as Black, as opposed to a bi-racial person who's in a more integrated or multi-cultural environment.
With more bi-racial children being born, these issues will surface. But it's time we acknowledge that this is the 21st Century, and to put the "One-Drop" rule, and divisions into Octaroons, and Quadroons, etc to rest. Time to move on ...

And I have some personal interest in the subject. I'm Black , and my wife is White. We live in a very integrated Multi-cultural environment. Our young child (who is really too young to fully understand these issues), says "I'm a little bit Black and a little bit White". We want him to be proud of and comfortable with all aspects of his heritage and background, and not to let anybody else define him or put him into a box



Intresting take on handling that situation with children. However, you mention the one drop rule. But it is very different when half of your DNA is Black. that is waay more than one drop. Also the comment about if you lived in Harlem or Compton is a little disturbing. Because if you lived in SOuth Georgia you'd still be considered black. Many times I find that you are accpeted a little faster by the black community because they still see you as black for the most part different yes but still black. but in the white community you are always gonna be different if you are mixed.you will never be considered white, Mixed maybe, black maybe, but never white. THis thread is turning to that old movie imitation of life LOL


I was just about to post how this seems very Imitation of Lifish lol

All this time I though Slash was Latino, Never knew he had a black parent,so he wasn't too vocal about it

All I have to say is....nevermind lol I'm going to lay low on this one
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #66 posted 02/20/05 8:57am

violator

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

violator said:



I understand what you're saying but it sounds like pandering to me. Halle's mother may have done her a huge favor, particularly if she was struggling with her self-image. But the only reason that Halle is considered Black is because white people said so. She was raised by a white woman and half the blood that courses through her veins came from her mother.

It's much easier to pick a side and assimilate. Tiger's position on his race, with the whole 'Caublinasian-or whatever' may seem silly on its face but his refusal to allow himself to be pigeonholed is ultimately an unpopular stance that takes a whole lot more guts than most folks in that situation possess.
Wow. Awesome post. biggrin

The only thing I disagree with is that black people also say she is black. They wouldn't let her claim to be white either.


I think we're speaking to the same historical reference.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #67 posted 02/20/05 9:25am

Trickology

All artists are contradictions but I recognize Nas as one of the modern Lyrical greats.

And Prince fans who say he is contradicting then take a look at Mr. prince.
He is the Prince of contradictions and hypocritical statements.

But what else is new? So was Bob marley and Sly.
That's art love it or leave it.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #68 posted 02/20/05 9:54am

Harlepolis

Ya know, this threads adds my compassion for bi-racial kids sigh

Man, they endure alot of unnecessary bullshit and confusion.

Look at Mariah & Tiger, they go through something they don't have the power to change!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #69 posted 02/20/05 10:52am

BlaqueKnight

avatar

Nas is an artist. All artists express opinions in some form or another via their art. Nas is saying how he feels. I disagree with some points and agree with other points but ultimately I have to take it for what it is:
ITS A SONG.
We've become so opinionated in our society that we seem to think that our opinions deserve some form of entitlement just because we express them. (That is also an opinion wink) Its art. Nas is using the controversy route to catch a few sales, express his discontent, and ruffle a few feathers - he did all that. Just because he said it doesn't mean it holds any water; it doesn't mean that it doesn't, either. Youu decide.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #70 posted 02/20/05 11:09am

violator

BlaqueKnight said:

Youu decide.


That's what we're doing, bro'.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #71 posted 02/20/05 11:32am

BlaqueKnight

avatar

violator said:


That's what we're doing, bro'.


Yeah, I know. The same point I'm making about Nas is the same point I've made about Prince. At the end of the day, he's one person with one set of opinions. The only difference between his and anyone else's is he has a mic in front of him and the ears of millions. Just because an artist expresses something doesn't mean its worth debate; nor does it mean its something to be taken literally. Prince said voting is useless. Does that mean I should not vote because Prince doesn't? Of course not. Sometimes an opinion is just that and nothing more. I don't know or care about Kobe, Taye Diggs, Tiger Woods or any of the people he mentioned or implied about (I think he may have been talking bout OutKast and not Puffy in the 2nd verse. "Bowtie" - Big Boi, Clown - Andre 3000's outfits). Doesn't matter. He said what was on his mind. I respect that. Its fun to read the feedback on here, though. biggrin
[Edited 2/20/05 12:36pm]
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #72 posted 02/20/05 2:00pm

PrettyMan72

avatar

VanitySixx said:

jjhunsecker said:



Well , Tiger's father is part White, part Black, and part Native American, and his mother is Asian. He wants to acknowledge all aspects of his ethnicity, so what's so sad about that? Why should he deny any part of who he is , and just say that he was Black ?


If you're white and you're saying "I'm Irish and Italian and Dutch" and so on... you're still white and you're not denying you're whiteness. However, if you're black and you're saying that you're basically trying to deny the fact that you're black or for whatever reason you want to be seen as less black. But the thing is that ALL blacks are mixed with something and that goes without saying. Thats what makes us black as opposed to African, which is what we were when we were brought over here. So to go on and on about what you're mixed with is silly. It doesn't matter what you're mixed with in this society, if you look black then you're black and if you look white then you're white. Halle Berrys mother did it best. When Halle was young and confused over her ethnicity, her mother told her point blank I'm white and you're black. Look at Lenny Kravitz, Mariah Carey and Slash from Guns n Roses. They're all mixed but of course Lenny is black and Mariah and Slash are considered white. You don't get to choose what you are but Tiger is so desperately trying to convince the world he's not black and maybe thats so people wouldn't judge him for exclusively dating white women.



Co-sign!!! very well said
thumbs up!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #73 posted 02/20/05 2:49pm

missfee

avatar

jjhunsecker said:

PAPAROBBIE said:

Nas made some good points in the song...He's not criticizing success, but success at the expense of selling out one's people & perpetuating stereotypes.



If he wants to attack those who perpetrate negative stereotypes of Blacks, here's a few he can start with : 50 Cent, The Game, Snoop Dogg, Lil Kim. And if he wants to criticize those who profit off of the selling of those images, why not include: Damon Dash, Russell Simmons, Jay-Z ?

These lyrics are pointless, and show a complete lack of logic and critical thinking

I agree with the statement in bold. I feel like all the bling and the contest of "how many more half naked hoes can I put in my video than the next rapper" is old, and degrading. Yet teenagers buy this trash and spend money so that they can become it. Little girls dressing like lil' kim so that guys can notice her is not cute, and guys selling drugs so that they can buy the same outfit they saw Fabolous wear in his latest video is not cute neither...its really sad
[Edited 2/20/05 14:51pm]
I will forever love and miss you...my sweet Prince.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #74 posted 02/22/05 9:55pm

Supernova

avatar

Janfriend said:

Supernova said:


Mariah is considered White by who?


White people.

She herself said that, in England especially, people would ask her "Why do you work with these black artists?" She said they didn't get it. Tommy Motoloa considered her white and encouraged her not to wear light colors

I don't know a single White person that thinks Mariah is anything but bi-racial. But I don't live in England either....
This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #75 posted 02/23/05 7:47am

jjhunsecker

avatar

Supernova said:

Janfriend said:



White people.

She herself said that, in England especially, people would ask her "Why do you work with these black artists?" She said they didn't get it. Tommy Motoloa considered her white and encouraged her not to wear light colors

I don't know a single White person that thinks Mariah is anything but bi-racial. But I don't live in England either....



Mariah has always mentioned being of an interracial parentage. A person would have to had their head in the sand not to know that .

And it's interesting that they mentioned England. I happen to travel to England fairly regularly, and I've probably seen more interracial couples and families in London, Liverpool, and Manchester than I've seen even in New York or San Francisco. That's not to say that there's less racism there, but there seems to be less of a taboo there in regards to bi-racial relationships. I remember reading somewhere that in England about 50% of the Black men and about 25% of the Black women were married to or involved romantically with whites.

And look how many English celebrities are bi-racial : Sade, Scary Spice, Thandie Newton, Dizzy Rascal, Goldie, Oscar nominee Sophie Okenado (sp?)

So it's not at all uncommon there at all
#SOCIETYDEFINESU
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #76 posted 02/24/05 3:11am

VanitySixx

jjhunsecker said:

Supernova said:


I don't know a single White person that thinks Mariah is anything but bi-racial. But I don't live in England either....



Mariah has always mentioned being of an interracial parentage. A person would have to had their head in the sand not to know that .

And it's interesting that they mentioned England. I happen to travel to England fairly regularly, and I've probably seen more interracial couples and families in London, Liverpool, and Manchester than I've seen even in New York or San Francisco. That's not to say that there's less racism there, but there seems to be less of a taboo there in regards to bi-racial relationships. I remember reading somewhere that in England about 50% of the Black men and about 25% of the Black women were married to or involved romantically with whites.

And look how many English celebrities are bi-racial : Sade, Scary Spice, Thandie Newton, Dizzy Rascal, Goldie, Oscar nominee Sophie Okenado (sp?)

So it's not at all uncommon there at all



I've seen several interviews w/ Mariah stating the above quote about how Tommy Matoloa was trying to mold her and how he didn't want her to let on that she was bi racial so, she never mentioned this early in her career. Tommy wanted her to appeal to a white audience amd he was very particular about the way she was to be portrayed. Even though it was widely speculated that she was mixed with something, she never came out and said that she was part black Until Her Divorce. And I'm not 100% sure but, I think she "officially" revealed this information in Ebony magazine because she was on the cover around that time.

However, my point was if she never came out and said she was part black no one except for those close to her would ever know.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #77 posted 02/24/05 6:45am

jjhunsecker

avatar

VanitySixx said:

jjhunsecker said:




Mariah has always mentioned being of an interracial parentage. A person would have to had their head in the sand not to know that .

And it's interesting that they mentioned England. I happen to travel to England fairly regularly, and I've probably seen more interracial couples and families in London, Liverpool, and Manchester than I've seen even in New York or San Francisco. That's not to say that there's less racism there, but there seems to be less of a taboo there in regards to bi-racial relationships. I remember reading somewhere that in England about 50% of the Black men and about 25% of the Black women were married to or involved romantically with whites.

And look how many English celebrities are bi-racial : Sade, Scary Spice, Thandie Newton, Dizzy Rascal, Goldie, Oscar nominee Sophie Okenado (sp?)

So it's not at all uncommon there at all



I've seen several interviews w/ Mariah stating the above quote about how Tommy Matoloa was trying to mold her and how he didn't want her to let on that she was bi racial so, she never mentioned this early in her career. Tommy wanted her to appeal to a white audience amd he was very particular about the way she was to be portrayed. Even though it was widely speculated that she was mixed with something, she never came out and said that she was part black Until Her Divorce. And I'm not 100% sure but, I think she "officially" revealed this information in Ebony magazine because she was on the cover around that time.

However, my point was if she never came out and said she was part black no one except for those close to her would ever know.


But I knew that she was part Black the MINUTE I first saw her, on her first appearance on the Arsenio Hall show at the start of her career. I have relatives who have a very similar look to hers. Same thing with Vin Diesel, the very first time I saw him, in "Saving Private Ryan", I said to myself, "this dude has some Black blood in him"
#SOCIETYDEFINESU
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #78 posted 02/24/05 6:52am

jjhunsecker

avatar

Janfriend said:

Soulchild82 said:




Intresting take on handling that situation with children. However, you mention the one drop rule. But it is very different when half of your DNA is Black. that is waay more than one drop. Also the comment about if you lived in Harlem or Compton is a little disturbing. Because if you lived in SOuth Georgia you'd still be considered black. Many times I find that you are accpeted a little faster by the black community because they still see you as black for the most part different yes but still black. but in the white community you are always gonna be different if you are mixed.you will never be considered white, Mixed maybe, black maybe, but never white. THis thread is turning to that old movie imitation of life LOL


:

All this time I though Slash was Latino, Never knew he had a black parent,so he wasn't too vocal about it



Slash has mentioned this from the very start of his career, that his mother is Black. I remember reading this in 1988!! He's even discussed how his family gave him a hard time over the Guns n' Roses song "One in a Million", which uses the "N" word in the lyrics. And in Life Magazine last week, there was a photo feature on Rock stars and their parents, and there was a photo of Slash with his White father and Black mother .
#SOCIETYDEFINESU
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #79 posted 02/24/05 7:03am

VanitySixx

jjhunsecker said:

VanitySixx said:




I've seen several interviews w/ Mariah stating the above quote about how Tommy Matoloa was trying to mold her and how he didn't want her to let on that she was bi racial so, she never mentioned this early in her career. Tommy wanted her to appeal to a white audience amd he was very particular about the way she was to be portrayed. Even though it was widely speculated that she was mixed with something, she never came out and said that she was part black Until Her Divorce. And I'm not 100% sure but, I think she "officially" revealed this information in Ebony magazine because she was on the cover around that time.

However, my point was if she never came out and said she was part black no one except for those close to her would ever know.


But I knew that she was part Black the MINUTE I first saw her, on her first appearance on the Arsenio Hall show at the start of her career. I have relatives who have a very similar look to hers. Same thing with Vin Diesel, the very first time I saw him, in "Saving Private Ryan", I said to myself, "this dude has some Black blood in him"


biggrin I guess we're outing everybody in this thread. I didn't know that about Vin Diesel, not that any of this is of major importance we're all human.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #80 posted 02/24/05 8:00am

missfee

avatar

you will not believe this, but my boyfriend finds it offensive for any black person to say the word "coon" but doesn't find it offensive when the word "nigga" is used??? Is it just me or does this make no sense????
I will forever love and miss you...my sweet Prince.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #81 posted 02/24/05 8:51am

VinnyM27

avatar

jjhunsecker said:

Janfriend said:



:

All this time I though Slash was Latino, Never knew he had a black parent,so he wasn't too vocal about it



Slash has mentioned this from the very start of his career, that his mother is Black. I remember reading this in 1988!! He's even discussed how his family gave him a hard time over the Guns n' Roses song "One in a Million", which uses the "N" word in the lyrics. And in Life Magazine last week, there was a photo feature on Rock stars and their parents, and there was a photo of Slash with his White father and Black mother .


I always thought Slash was hair and a hat...I didn't realize someone gave birth to him!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Page 3 of 3 <123
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Nas - Coon Pinic (These are our heroes) : Does Nas Have a point?