New topic
PrintableSoulchild82 said: jjhunsecker said: These lyrics are just absurd . I find that a lot of Blacks believe that all Black people have to think one way, with one opinion, or they're "sell-outs". I don't agree with Condoleeza Rice's politics, but I respect her, and Colin, too. Why do have to agree with them all the time? Because they're Black and I'm Black we always have to think alike . Why can't we have a diversity of opinion ? Look, George W and John Kerry were both rich white men of roughly the same age who both went to Yale : Does anybody say that they "have to" think alike ? And why attack Taye Diggs, Tiger Woods, or Cuba Gooding for falling in love with and marrying someone of a different race ? ( And Good Lord- imagine if a White artist said something like that in a record??? Toby Keith or Tom Petty or Eminem writing againt interracial relationships ?? Just imagine the hoopla !) If we ostracized all the Blacks who ever had romantic and/or sexual relationships with people of other races, who would we have left ? That would eliminate : Thurgood Marshall, James Baldwin, Lena Horne, Miles Davis, Pearl Bailey, Charlie Parker, Duke Ellington, Muddy Waters, James Brown, Chuck Berry, Rick James, Alice Walker, Leroi Jones, Bill Cosby, Barry Bonds, Tiki Barber, Dorothy Dandridge, Martin Luther King, etc, etc, oh...and yes PRINCE!! If he wants to attack those who perpetrate negative stereotypes of Blacks, here's a few he can start with : 50 Cent, The Game, Snoop Dogg, Lil Kim. And if he wants to criticize those who profit off of the selling of those images, why not include: Damon Dash, Russell Simmons, Jay-Z ? These lyrics are pointless, and show a complete lack of logic and critical thinking I dont think that the interacial relationships is the point of him dissing Kobe,Taye Diggs, Tiger Woods, or Cuba (being that his wife Kelis has a mixed parent, and he was discovered and is friends of MC Search of 3rd Bass and Eminem for that matter who produced A song for his Gods SOn LP). I think the reason for dissing them is soley their image. That they are "the perfect Negro". By this I think he means the most marketable and such for crossover appeal. I think he is Justified in dissing Kobe. And the vote or die campaign for that matter. TO say all of the lyrics are pointless would be a mistake. he does give credit to under appriciated African Americans. such as Fela Kuti(Famous African musician), Tavis Smiley, and Nicky Giovanni. But the qustion is : what else does Taye Diggs, Cuba Gooding, and Tiger Woods have in common (besides having White spouses)? And what's wrong with their "image"? Are all Black people suppose to look , act, behave, and think the same ? This is my point. What's wrong with having diversity within our race ? And isn't the "Thug" image of a Tupac or a 50 Cent more harmful for blacks than that of someone who is articulate, personable, and comfortable around people from other backgrounds and cultures ? I can pretty much take or leave most Hip/Hop music, and the culture around it. But I think that one of it's more harmful aspects was creating this belief that the only true Black Culture is "street" or "ghetto" culture, and if you don't fall into those categories you are not truly "Black" and are probably a "sell-out". (I mean, do you think Tim McGraw is sitting around saying that someone like, say, Marilyn Manson, is a "sell-out" to "White Culture" ? LOL !!) #SOCIETYDEFINESU | |
- E-mail - orgNote -  Report post to moderator |
jjhunsecker said: Soulchild82 said: I dont think that the interacial relationships is the point of him dissing Kobe,Taye Diggs, Tiger Woods, or Cuba (being that his wife Kelis has a mixed parent, and he was discovered and is friends of MC Search of 3rd Bass and Eminem for that matter who produced A song for his Gods SOn LP). I think the reason for dissing them is soley their image. That they are "the perfect Negro". By this I think he means the most marketable and such for crossover appeal. I think he is Justified in dissing Kobe. And the vote or die campaign for that matter. TO say all of the lyrics are pointless would be a mistake. he does give credit to under appriciated African Americans. such as Fela Kuti(Famous African musician), Tavis Smiley, and Nicky Giovanni. But the qustion is : what else does Taye Diggs, Cuba Gooding, and Tiger Woods have in common (besides having White spouses)? And what's wrong with their "image"? Are all Black people suppose to look , act, behave, and think the same ? This is my point. What's wrong with having diversity within our race ? And isn't the "Thug" image of a Tupac or a 50 Cent more harmful for blacks than that of someone who is articulate, personable, and comfortable around people from other backgrounds and cultures ? I can pretty much take or leave most Hip/Hop music, and the culture around it. But I think that one of it's more harmful aspects was creating this belief that the only true Black Culture is "street" or "ghetto" culture, and if you don't fall into those categories you are not truly "Black" and are probably a "sell-out". (I mean, do you think Tim McGraw is sitting around saying that someone like, say, Marilyn Manson, is a "sell-out" to "White Culture" ? LOL !!) I wouldn't be shocked if they were both saying that about each other! You have a very good point. That doesn't happen in the white community. BTW, the innaccuracy of the "facts" in the song are what I find most issue with. Does he expect to be taken seriously? | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
jjhunsecker said: Soulchild82 said: I dont think that the interacial relationships is the point of him dissing Kobe,Taye Diggs, Tiger Woods, or Cuba (being that his wife Kelis has a mixed parent, and he was discovered and is friends of MC Search of 3rd Bass and Eminem for that matter who produced A song for his Gods SOn LP). I think the reason for dissing them is soley their image. That they are "the perfect Negro". By this I think he means the most marketable and such for crossover appeal. I think he is Justified in dissing Kobe. And the vote or die campaign for that matter. TO say all of the lyrics are pointless would be a mistake. he does give credit to under appriciated African Americans. such as Fela Kuti(Famous African musician), Tavis Smiley, and Nicky Giovanni. But the qustion is : what else does Taye Diggs, Cuba Gooding, and Tiger Woods have in common (besides having White spouses)? And what's wrong with their "image"? Are all Black people suppose to look , act, behave, and think the same ? This is my point. What's wrong with having diversity within our race ? And isn't the "Thug" image of a Tupac or a 50 Cent more harmful for blacks than that of someone who is articulate, personable, and comfortable around people from other backgrounds and cultures ? I can pretty much take or leave most Hip/Hop music, and the culture around it. But I think that one of it's more harmful aspects was creating this belief that the only true Black Culture is "street" or "ghetto" culture, and if you don't fall into those categories you are not truly "Black" and are probably a "sell-out". (I mean, do you think Tim McGraw is sitting around saying that someone like, say, Marilyn Manson, is a "sell-out" to "White Culture" ? LOL !!) Arent Tavis Smiley, and Nicky Giovanni "articulate, personable, and comfortable around people from other backgrounds and cultures" (2pac was all of these things too, althought he had a very yin yang personality)? no where in the song does he say that the "thug" image is the thing to shoot for.like i said earlier i think the persona of tiger, taye, & cuba, them being the only accepted role models while fela and stokley go under apprciated. also public schools who omit the history of other cultures and thier direct impact on america [Edited 2/16/05 9:39am] "Thinking like the Keys on Prince's piano, we'll be just fine" | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Soulchild82 said: jjhunsecker said: But the qustion is : what else does Taye Diggs, Cuba Gooding, and Tiger Woods have in common (besides having White spouses)? And what's wrong with their "image"? Are all Black people suppose to look , act, behave, and think the same ? This is my point. What's wrong with having diversity within our race ? And isn't the "Thug" image of a Tupac or a 50 Cent more harmful for blacks than that of someone who is articulate, personable, and comfortable around people from other backgrounds and cultures ? I can pretty much take or leave most Hip/Hop music, and the culture around it. But I think that one of it's more harmful aspects was creating this belief that the only true Black Culture is "street" or "ghetto" culture, and if you don't fall into those categories you are not truly "Black" and are probably a "sell-out". (I mean, do you think Tim McGraw is sitting around saying that someone like, say, Marilyn Manson, is a "sell-out" to "White Culture" ? LOL !!) Arent Tavis Smiley, and Nicky Giovanni "articulate, personable, and comfortable around people from other backgrounds and cultures" (2pac was all of these things too, althought he had a very yin yang personality)? no where in the song does he say that the "thug" image is the thing to shoot for.like i said earlier i think the persona of tiger, taye, & cuba, them being the only accepted role models while fela and stokley go under apprciated. also public schools who omit the history of other cultures and thier direct impact on america [Edited 2/16/05 9:39am] You have some valid points, especially about the education system . But I still don't see the problem with a Taye Diggs or Cuba Gooding being more accepted. Things like that go on in all aspects of our society. I mean, more people look to Jessica Simpson as a role model than to Gloria Steinem .. But it 's the fact that he criticizes a Cuba or a Taye or a Tiger as "coons", but not a word about the bufoonish minstrelsy of Snoop Dogg or the Game, that gives me an idea of where his head is at. I mean, he criticizes Kobe for sexually abusing a White woman, but where is the criticism of a Mike Tyson, who sexually abused Black women ? It's what you leave out that says as much sometimes as what you put in .... (And I can't help point out the irony that a brilliant musician as Fela Kuti, along with a host of Black Jazz, Blues, Reggae, and African musicians, probably recieve much more appreciation from White audiences in the US than from Blacks ) #SOCIETYDEFINESU | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
|
I think he's a little harsh on the sitcom stars. Hell these are sitcoms. Sitcoms are stupid and over-the-top by design. And to me the new black sitcoms have come a long way. My faves are "Girlfriends" and "Half and Half". Even ghetto-coms like "The Parkers" are at least funny thanks to their stars.
As for Kobe, Taye and Cuba. Celebrities! Don't care one way or another what they do or how they do it. As for interracial marraige? Please. Could care less. Not my life. But I think he was making a point somewhere with that. It's a "positive" song, despite personal attacks. |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
CynicKill said: I think he's a little harsh on the sitcom stars. Hell these are sitcoms. Sitcoms are stupid and over-the-top by design. And to me the new black sitcoms have come a long way. My faves are "Girlfriends" and "Half and Half". Even ghetto-coms like "The Parkers" are at least funny thanks to their stars.
As for Kobe, Taye and Cuba. Celebrities! Don't care one way or another what they do or how they do it. As for interracial marraige? Please. Could care less. Not my life. But I think he was making a point somewhere with that. It's a "positive" song, despite personal attacks. I think Nas is saying like many people say. Nothing wrong with interracial relationships as long as the people involved dont view thier partner of another race as a trophy. which sad to say a lot of celebs do. To me i think the Parkers are part of this problem of ghetttofied sitcoms. "Thinking like the Keys on Prince's piano, we'll be just fine" | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Soulchild82 said: But the qustion is : what else does Taye Diggs, Cuba Gooding, and Tiger Woods have in common (besides having White spouses)? And what's wrong with their "image"? I don't understand the issue w/Taye Diggs except for the fact that he has a white wife. I don't agree or disagree with what Nas is saying but, I do understand the whole interracial issue. Now, as far as Cuba and Tiger are concerned I definitely agree. First of all, I really had a problem with Cuba doing back flips and cartwheels on stage because he was given an Oscar. I completely looked at him differently after that. And Tiger...well he's not black but, Caublacasian remember??? That says it all right there you know, its just so sad when you can't love and accept who and what you are.  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Soulchild82 said: CynicKill said: I think he's a little harsh on the sitcom stars. Hell these are sitcoms. Sitcoms are stupid and over-the-top by design. And to me the new black sitcoms have come a long way. My faves are "Girlfriends" and "Half and Half". Even ghetto-coms like "The Parkers" are at least funny thanks to their stars.
As for Kobe, Taye and Cuba. Celebrities! Don't care one way or another what they do or how they do it. As for interracial marraige? Please. Could care less. Not my life. But I think he was making a point somewhere with that. It's a "positive" song, despite personal attacks. I think Nas is saying like many people say. Nothing wrong with interracial relationships as long as the people involved dont view thier partner of another race as a trophy. which sad to say a lot of celebs do. To me i think the Parkers are part of this problem of ghetttofied sitcoms.   | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
VanitySixx said: Soulchild82 said: But the qustion is : what else does Taye Diggs, Cuba Gooding, and Tiger Woods have in common (besides having White spouses)? And what's wrong with their "image"? I don't understand the issue w/Taye Diggs except for the fact that he has a white wife. I don't agree or disagree with what Nas is saying but, I do understand the whole interracial issue. Now, as far as Cuba and Tiger are concerned I definitely agree. First of all, I really had a problem with Cuba doing back flips and cartwheels on stage because he was given an Oscar. I completely looked at him differently after that. And Tiger...well he's not black but, Caublacasian remember??? That says it all right there you know, its just so sad when you can't love and accept who and what you are. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Once Nas starts treating Kelis like the Queen she is, then he can holla at me. For now, he needs to shut the fuck up. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said: Once Nas starts treating Kelis like the Queen she is, then he can holla at me. For now, he needs to shut the fuck up.
Thank you very much. This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
jjhunsecker said: Soulchild82 said: I dont think that the interacial relationships is the point of him dissing Kobe,Taye Diggs, Tiger Woods, or Cuba (being that his wife Kelis has a mixed parent, and he was discovered and is friends of MC Search of 3rd Bass and Eminem for that matter who produced A song for his Gods SOn LP). I think the reason for dissing them is soley their image. That they are "the perfect Negro". By this I think he means the most marketable and such for crossover appeal. I think he is Justified in dissing Kobe. And the vote or die campaign for that matter. TO say all of the lyrics are pointless would be a mistake. he does give credit to under appriciated African Americans. such as Fela Kuti(Famous African musician), Tavis Smiley, and Nicky Giovanni. But the qustion is : what else does Taye Diggs, Cuba Gooding, and Tiger Woods have in common (besides having White spouses)? And what's wrong with their "image"? Are all Black people suppose to look , act, behave, and think the same ? Nas' problems are at least equal to, if not more profound, than those he randomly attacks. This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
VanitySixx said: Soulchild82 said: But the qustion is : what else does Taye Diggs, Cuba Gooding, and Tiger Woods have in common (besides having White spouses)? And what's wrong with their "image"? . And Tiger...well he's not black but, Caublacasian remember??? That says it all right there you know, its just so sad when you can't love and accept who and what you are. Well , Tiger's father is part White, part Black, and part Native American, and his mother is Asian. He wants to acknowledge all aspects of his ethnicity, so what's so sad about that? Why should he deny any part of who he is , and just say that he was Black ? #SOCIETYDEFINESU | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
|
lilgish said: Nas perpetually seems like an ignorant man who’s just obtained a wealth of knowledge, a man steeped in Afro centricity and Black pride, yet a man still embodying the traits of Black male oppression. Nas’ contradictory persona is the result of him being a “Thug Prophet”; a socially conscious Black man who still feels the need to maintain his street cred. Tupac was the quintessential “Thug Prophet”. The Black Thug is a self-destructive persona which the ruling-class has nurtured in it’s controlled wastelands, perpetuated in it’s media, and has sold as it’s product. It’s essentially a perfect way to destroy a people and make a profit while doing it. Nas, just like Tupac, will never be a true prophet as long as he continues to indulge in self-destructive behavior. Nas needs to check himself before his criticizes other Black folks.
[Edited 2/15/05 22:18pm] What self-destructive behavior are you talking about? Do you know him personally? |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
CynicKill said: I think he's a little harsh on the sitcom stars. Hell these are sitcoms. Sitcoms are stupid and over-the-top by design. And to me the new black sitcoms have come a long way. My faves are "Girlfriends" and "Half and Half". Even ghetto-coms like "The Parkers" are at least funny thanks to their stars.
As for Kobe, Taye and Cuba. Celebrities! Don't care one way or another what they do or how they do it. As for interracial marraige? Please. Could care less. Not my life. But I think he was making a point somewhere with that. It's a "positive" song, despite personal attacks. I also like Girlfriends b/c the characters are non stereotypical Black Women characters with professions. Of course, the ghetto com Parkers is off the air. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
PAPAROBBIE said: What self-destructive behavior are you talking about? Do you know him personally? No, but I know people who know him and from what I hear he's a down to earth, conscious and positive brother. I have no problem with Nas, his content, or that of any other artist....But if Nas is gonna comment negatively on the actions of certain Black folks, he should realize that in reping "Thug Life”, he’s perpetuated the ultimate coonery and one of the most self-destructive ploys used against his own people. Maybe he is aware of it, if so, than he should understand why certain "coons" floss it up or put on big "willie" smiles, just like Bill Robinson or some of his Heroes had to do. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
|
Hotlegs said: CynicKill said: I think he's a little harsh on the sitcom stars. Hell these are sitcoms. Sitcoms are stupid and over-the-top by design. And to me the new black sitcoms have come a long way. My faves are "Girlfriends" and "Half and Half". Even ghetto-coms like "The Parkers" are at least funny thanks to their stars.
As for Kobe, Taye and Cuba. Celebrities! Don't care one way or another what they do or how they do it. As for interracial marraige? Please. Could care less. Not my life. But I think he was making a point somewhere with that. It's a "positive" song, despite personal attacks. I also like Girlfriends b/c the characters are non stereotypical Black Women characters with professions. Of course, the ghetto com Parkers is off the air."Girlfriends" I like for the reasons you just mentioned, though I do think they're getting a little TOO cartoony with Joan's nuerosis. But it's cool. It's never really been portrayed before on a sitcom as I remember so... I like "Half and Half" because I think it's probably the best written of the black sitcoms right not. The backstory with the two sisters is very well drawn. As for "The Parkers", c'mon, it stars Mo'nique! It can't help but be funny at least some of the time. |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
|
lilgish said: PAPAROBBIE said: What self-destructive behavior are you talking about? Do you know him personally? No, but I know people who know him and from what I hear he's a down to earth, conscious and positive brother. I have no problem with Nas, his content, or that of any other artist....But if Nas is gonna comment negatively on the actions of certain Black folks, he should realize that in reping "Thug Life”, he’s perpetuated the ultimate coonery and one of the most self-destructive ploys used against his own people. Maybe he is aware of it, if so, than he should understand why certain "coons" floss it up or put on big "willie" smiles, just like Bill Robinson or some of his Heroes had to do. I hear you, but I don't hear him repping the ignorance that he was known for on past CDs on this one...I think this is a departure from the "thug" crap that he was spittin' say 3 years ago.... |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
CynicKill said: As for "The Parkers", c'mon, it stars Mo'nique! It can't help but be funny at least some of the time. Don't get me wrong, Moniques my girl but she was playing a sterotypical ghetto fablous role on the Parkers in a way. I still miss the being on the air and I watch it in syndication. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
|
Hotlegs said: CynicKill said: As for "The Parkers", c'mon, it stars Mo'nique! It can't help but be funny at least some of the time. Don't get me wrong, Moniques my girl but she was playing a sterotypical ghetto fablous role on the Parkers in a way. I still miss the being on the air and I watch it in syndication. Oh it was definitely ghetto, but if not on a dumb sitcom, then where? The best sitcom on the air, "Arrested Development", gets no viewers. And don't get me started on the most underappreciated comedy currently on the air, "The Gabmore Girls". It seems like any hint of quirk or nuance gets ignored in this genre. |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
jjhunsecker said: VanitySixx said: . And Tiger...well he's not black but, Caublacasian remember??? That says it all right there you know, its just so sad when you can't love and accept who and what you are. Well , Tiger's father is part White, part Black, and part Native American, and his mother is Asian. He wants to acknowledge all aspects of his ethnicity, so what's so sad about that? Why should he deny any part of who he is , and just say that he was Black ? If you're white and you're saying "I'm Irish and Italian and Dutch" and so on... you're still white and you're not denying you're whiteness. However, if you're black and you're saying that you're basically trying to deny the fact that you're black or for whatever reason you want to be seen as less black. But the thing is that ALL blacks are mixed with something and that goes without saying. Thats what makes us black as opposed to African, which is what we were when we were brought over here. So to go on and on about what you're mixed with is silly. It doesn't matter what you're mixed with in this society, if you look black then you're black and if you look white then you're white. Halle Berrys mother did it best. When Halle was young and confused over her ethnicity, her mother told her point blank I'm white and you're black. Look at Lenny Kravitz, Mariah Carey and Slash from Guns n Roses. They're all mixed but of course Lenny is black and Mariah and Slash are considered white. You don't get to choose what you are but Tiger is so desperately trying to convince the world he's not black and maybe thats so people wouldn't judge him for exclusively dating white women. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
VanitySixx said: jjhunsecker said: Well , Tiger's father is part White, part Black, and part Native American, and his mother is Asian. He wants to acknowledge all aspects of his ethnicity, so what's so sad about that? Why should he deny any part of who he is , and just say that he was Black ? If you're white and you're saying "I'm Irish and Italian and Dutch" and so on... you're still white and you're not denying you're whiteness. However, if you're black and you're saying that you're basically trying to deny the fact that you're black or for whatever reason you want to be seen as less black. But the thing is that ALL blacks are mixed with something and that goes without saying. Thats what makes us black as opposed to African, which is what we were when we were brought over here. So to go on and on about what you're mixed with is silly. It doesn't matter what you're mixed with in this society, if you look black then you're black and if you look white then you're white. Halle Berrys mother did it best. When Halle was young and confused over her ethnicity, her mother told her point blank I'm white and you're black. Look at Lenny Kravitz, Mariah Carey and Slash from Guns n Roses. They're all mixed but of course Lenny is black and Mariah and Slash are considered white. You don't get to choose what you are but Tiger is so desperately trying to convince the world he's not black and maybe thats so people wouldn't judge him for exclusively dating white women. Right on! Preach sista! I agree 100% | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
sinisterpentatonic said: AnckSuNamun said:  that just makes it sound so nasty.  it is! 
I just remembered another one of his brilliant verses
"I squeeze the nipples like a pimple to get the puss, get it?" 
[Edited 2/15/05 22:13pm] horrible!  looking for you in the woods tonight Switch FC SW-2874-2863-4789 (Rum&Coke) | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
VanitySixx said: jjhunsecker said: Well , Tiger's father is part White, part Black, and part Native American, and his mother is Asian. He wants to acknowledge all aspects of his ethnicity, so what's so sad about that? Why should he deny any part of who he is , and just say that he was Black ? If you're white and you're saying "I'm Irish and Italian and Dutch" and so on... you're still white and you're not denying you're whiteness. However, if you're black and you're saying that you're basically trying to deny the fact that you're black or for whatever reason you want to be seen as less black. But the thing is that ALL blacks are mixed with something and that goes without saying. Thats what makes us black as opposed to African, which is what we were when we were brought over here. So to go on and on about what you're mixed with is silly. It doesn't matter what you're mixed with in this society, if you look black then you're black and if you look white then you're white. Halle Berrys mother did it best. When Halle was young and confused over her ethnicity, her mother told her point blank I'm white and you're black. Look at Lenny Kravitz, Mariah Carey and Slash from Guns n Roses. They're all mixed but of course Lenny is black and Mariah and Slash are considered white. You don't get to choose what you are but Tiger is so desperately trying to convince the world he's not black and maybe thats so people wouldn't judge him for exclusively dating white women. I agree 100%. If you look Black society, society will consider you as Black regardless of your racial background and I know this from personal expereince. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
VanitySixx said: jjhunsecker said: Well , Tiger's father is part White, part Black, and part Native American, and his mother is Asian. He wants to acknowledge all aspects of his ethnicity, so what's so sad about that? Why should he deny any part of who he is , and just say that he was Black ? If you're white and you're saying "I'm Irish and Italian and Dutch" and so on... you're still white and you're not denying you're whiteness. However, if you're black and you're saying that you're basically trying to deny the fact that you're black or for whatever reason you want to be seen as less black. But the thing is that ALL blacks are mixed with something and that goes without saying. Thats what makes us black as opposed to African, which is what we were when we were brought over here. So to go on and on about what you're mixed with is silly. It doesn't matter what you're mixed with in this society, if you look black then you're black and if you look white then you're white. Halle Berrys mother did it best. When Halle was young and confused over her ethnicity, her mother told her point blank I'm white and you're black. Look at Lenny Kravitz, Mariah Carey and Slash from Guns n Roses. They're all mixed but of course Lenny is black and Mariah and Slash are considered white. You don't get to choose what you are but Tiger is so desperately trying to convince the world he's not black and maybe thats so people wouldn't judge him for exclusively dating white women. I understand what you're saying but it sounds like pandering to me. Halle's mother may have done her a huge favor, particularly if she was struggling with her self-image. But the only reason that Halle is considered Black is because white people said so. She was raised by a white woman and half the blood that courses through her veins came from her mother. It's much easier to pick a side and assimilate. Tiger's position on his race, with the whole 'Caublinasian-or whatever' may seem silly on its face but his refusal to allow himself to be pigeonholed is ultimately an unpopular stance that takes a whole lot more guts than most folks in that situation possess. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
violator said: VanitySixx said: If you're white and you're saying "I'm Irish and Italian and Dutch" and so on... you're still white and you're not denying you're whiteness. However, if you're black and you're saying that you're basically trying to deny the fact that you're black or for whatever reason you want to be seen as less black. But the thing is that ALL blacks are mixed with something and that goes without saying. Thats what makes us black as opposed to African, which is what we were when we were brought over here. So to go on and on about what you're mixed with is silly. It doesn't matter what you're mixed with in this society, if you look black then you're black and if you look white then you're white. Halle Berrys mother did it best. When Halle was young and confused over her ethnicity, her mother told her point blank I'm white and you're black. Look at Lenny Kravitz, Mariah Carey and Slash from Guns n Roses. They're all mixed but of course Lenny is black and Mariah and Slash are considered white. You don't get to choose what you are but Tiger is so desperately trying to convince the world he's not black and maybe thats so people wouldn't judge him for exclusively dating white women. I understand what you're saying but it sounds like pandering to me. Halle's mother may have done her a huge favor, particularly if she was struggling with her self-image. But the only reason that Halle is considered Black is because white people said so. She was raised by a white woman and half the blood that courses through her veins came from her mother. It's much easier to pick a side and assimilate. Tiger's position on his race, with the whole 'Caublinasian-or whatever' may seem silly on its face but his refusal to allow himself to be pigeonholed is ultimately an unpopular stance that takes a whole lot more guts than most folks in that situation possess. 
The only thing I disagree with is that black people also say she is black. They wouldn't let her claim to be white either. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
violator said: VanitySixx said: If you're white and you're saying "I'm Irish and Italian and Dutch" and so on... you're still white and you're not denying you're whiteness. However, if you're black and you're saying that you're basically trying to deny the fact that you're black or for whatever reason you want to be seen as less black. But the thing is that ALL blacks are mixed with something and that goes without saying. Thats what makes us black as opposed to African, which is what we were when we were brought over here. So to go on and on about what you're mixed with is silly. It doesn't matter what you're mixed with in this society, if you look black then you're black and if you look white then you're white. Halle Berrys mother did it best. When Halle was young and confused over her ethnicity, her mother told her point blank I'm white and you're black. Look at Lenny Kravitz, Mariah Carey and Slash from Guns n Roses. They're all mixed but of course Lenny is black and Mariah and Slash are considered white. You don't get to choose what you are but Tiger is so desperately trying to convince the world he's not black and maybe thats so people wouldn't judge him for exclusively dating white women. I understand what you're saying but it sounds like pandering to me. Halle's mother may have done her a huge favor, particularly if she was struggling with her self-image. But the only reason that Halle is considered Black is because white people said so. She was raised by a white woman and half the blood that courses through her veins came from her mother. It's much easier to pick a side and assimilate. Tiger's position on his race, with the whole 'Caublinasian-or whatever' may seem silly on its face but his refusal to allow himself to be pigeonholed is ultimately an unpopular stance that takes a whole lot more guts than most folks in that situation possess. You say that Mariah and Slash are considered 'White", but by whom ? I've never heard eithe of them deny that they had a Black parent. As for Tiger, why should he let others define him, and force him to essentially deny his Asian mother and her culture and it's importance in his life. I think some people may want to choose sides based on the environment that they're in. For example, a bi-racial person living in, say Harlem or Compton, may want to identify more as Black, as opposed to a bi-racial person who's in a more integrated or multi-cultural environment. With more bi-racial children being born, these issues will surface. But it's time we acknowledge that this is the 21st Century, and to put the "One-Drop" rule, and divisions into Octaroons, and Quadroons, etc to rest. Time to move on ... And I have some personal interest in the subject. I'm Black , and my wife is White. We live in a very integrated Multi-cultural environment. Our young child (who is really too young to fully understand these issues), says "I'm a little bit Black and a little bit White". We want him to be proud of and comfortable with all aspects of his heritage and background, and not to let anybody else define him or put him into a box #SOCIETYDEFINESU | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
VanitySixx said:
If you're white and you're saying "I'm Irish and Italian and Dutch" and so on... you're still white and you're not denying you're whiteness. However, if you're black and you're saying that you're basically trying to deny the fact that you're black or for whatever reason you want to be seen as less black. But the thing is that ALL blacks are mixed with something and that goes without saying. Thats what makes us black as opposed to African, which is what we were when we were brought over here. So to go on and on about what you're mixed with is silly. It doesn't matter what you're mixed with in this society, if you look black then you're black and if you look white then you're white. Halle Berrys mother did it best. When Halle was young and confused over her ethnicity, her mother told her point blank I'm white and you're black. Look at Lenny Kravitz, Mariah Carey and Slash from Guns n Roses. They're all mixed but of course Lenny is black and Mariah and Slash are considered white. You don't get to choose what you are but Tiger is so desperately trying to convince the world he's not black and maybe thats so people wouldn't judge him for exclusively dating white women.[/quote] You're saying tha "ALL Blacks are mixed with something", which is true. I can understand most Black people saying they are only Black since the Mixing was forced through rape and subjugation, and forced segregation. Under those circumstances, I could understand not wanting to identify with any White parentage. But isn't it a different circumstance if you have parents of different backgounds who CHOSE to be together and have a child ? And if you were raised in an environment where people of different backgrounds are accepted. Then you might have a different perspective on this issue, and how you choose to define yourself #SOCIETYDEFINESU | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
jjhunsecker said: violator said: I understand what you're saying but it sounds like pandering to me. Halle's mother may have done her a huge favor, particularly if she was struggling with her self-image. But the only reason that Halle is considered Black is because white people said so. She was raised by a white woman and half the blood that courses through her veins came from her mother. It's much easier to pick a side and assimilate. Tiger's position on his race, with the whole 'Caublinasian-or whatever' may seem silly on its face but his refusal to allow himself to be pigeonholed is ultimately an unpopular stance that takes a whole lot more guts than most folks in that situation possess. You say that Mariah and Slash are considered 'White", but by whom ? I've never heard eithe of them deny that they had a Black parent. As for Tiger, why should he let others define him, and force him to essentially deny his Asian mother and her culture and it's importance in his life. [snipped] I remember him catching flack for that from the Asian community also. He was truly in a no win situation. And I have some personal interest in the subject. I'm Black , and my wife is White. We live in a very integrated Multi-cultural environment. Our young child (who is really too young to fully understand these issues), says "I'm a little bit Black and a little bit White". We want him to be proud of and comfortable with all aspects of his heritage and background, and not to let anybody else define him or put him into a box lol that's cute. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll play it first and tell you what it is later. -Miles Davis- | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
jjhunsecker said: violator said: I understand what you're saying but it sounds like pandering to me. Halle's mother may have done her a huge favor, particularly if she was struggling with her self-image. But the only reason that Halle is considered Black is because white people said so. She was raised by a white woman and half the blood that courses through her veins came from her mother. It's much easier to pick a side and assimilate. Tiger's position on his race, with the whole 'Caublinasian-or whatever' may seem silly on its face but his refusal to allow himself to be pigeonholed is ultimately an unpopular stance that takes a whole lot more guts than most folks in that situation possess. You say that Mariah and Slash are considered 'White", but by whom ? I've never heard eithe of them deny that they had a Black parent. As for Tiger, why should he let others define him, and force him to essentially deny his Asian mother and her culture and it's importance in his life. I think some people may want to choose sides based on the environment that they're in. For example, a bi-racial person living in, say Harlem or Compton, may want to identify more as Black, as opposed to a bi-racial person who's in a more integrated or multi-cultural environment. With more bi-racial children being born, these issues will surface. But it's time we acknowledge that this is the 21st Century, and to put the "One-Drop" rule, and divisions into Octaroons, and Quadroons, etc to rest. Time to move on ... And I have some personal interest in the subject. I'm Black , and my wife is White. We live in a very integrated Multi-cultural environment. Our young child (who is really too young to fully understand these issues), says "I'm a little bit Black and a little bit White". We want him to be proud of and comfortable with all aspects of his heritage and background, and not to let anybody else define him or put him into a box Intresting take on handling that situation with children. However, you mention the one drop rule. But it is very different when half of your DNA is Black. that is waay more than one drop. Also the comment about if you lived in Harlem or Compton is a little disturbing. Because if you lived in SOuth Georgia you'd still be considered black. Many times I find that you are accpeted a little faster by the black community because they still see you as black for the most part different yes but still black. but in the white community you are always gonna be different if you are mixed.you will never be considered white, Mixed maybe, black maybe, but never white. THis thread is turning to that old movie imitation of life LOL [Edited 2/18/05 11:40am] [Edited 2/18/05 11:42am] "Thinking like the Keys on Prince's piano, we'll be just fine" | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |