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Printable Doozer said: Anxiety said: If the CD handed out at concerts were the same as what you could get at the wrecka stow, I'd agree with this statement...but considering audiences get a CD with no liner notes packaged in a fairly generic slipcover, I'd say that's a $8 - $10 CD (comparing the price to NPGMC downloads, which are generic as well, but at least you can purchase 'em in the convenience of your home). I agree. The CD you get at the concert is not the same CD you get if you buy it at a retail outlet. (And I got my copy of the CD at a retail outlet for $9.99, which is basically what they're saying they're working in to the concert ticket price.) AND, more importantly, the copy they're handing out at concerts is clearly labeled for promotional use only. I don't see how promo CDs can count as sales. I'm glad Soundscan is counting the handouts as sales, don't get me wrong. But the retail CD and the handout CD are definitely two different things. Regardless, as long as they count the handouts, this album is going to be high on the charts until the tour is over. If he just plays 2 concerts a week to 20,000, that's 40,000 in CD sales according to Soundscan. This album will be platinum in no time. [This message was edited Fri Apr 30 15:04:38 2004 by Doozer] Hey, Just wanted to let you know the copy given to me in Tampa did not have anything on the cd labeled for promotional use only. | |
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Prince, you pop culture stud!
If this turns out to be more than a fad, then he has just influenced the music world again. Not bad for someone who was using text messaging spelling two decades before everyone else. | |
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Here's the deal - People paid up to $125.00 for the One Nite Alone Tour. Since Prince has a sponsor he doesn't have to charge as much and can throw in the CD. Also it get's to casual people who go to his shows to see what the hype is about. | |
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Yeah Prince, The man with the plan.
Since every label claims that they can not market his music, He did it his self and out smarted them all. | |
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I would rather pay $70 to just see the concert instead of $80 for the concert and CD. In this situation, it's like a tax for me cuz I don't want the fucking thing. "You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." "
Al Pacino- Scarface | |
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 Tear it down, Princey!!! yeah rip it apart | |
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adorable2 said: Supernova said:
I'm sure that quivering fool will get over it. When it comes to the big picture the Billboard 200 chart is sometimes manipulated in ways not even talked about, so who gives a flying monkey's ass. Cry me an ocean, ya stiff-suited drones. Prince blazes a trail of his own once again. This is the kind of bitter rancor that goes on when said artist isn't signed to a recording contract; there are less people getting a piece of the pie - and less money to be made by those making it. ` [This message was edited Fri Apr 30 15:09:44 2004 by Supernova] yeah if one whore dares to defy her pimp in public, that might be it for the pimpin business! not to refer to P as a whore, hopefully you get my drift.  I getcha.This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes. | |
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Interesting. Just a few weeks ago you could have barely squeezed a yawn out of this idea. Now some in the industry are angered, at least one even “violently” so.
Next thing you’ll read is a report about Prince’s knee caps being threatened by some guy named Knuckles. Amazing flip-flop that was. We’ve gone from, that fool is giving away his newest CD to the only group of people left who might actually consider buying it, to that little fucker is unfairly helping his sales! I also find it humorous that people are angered because this change might in some small way throw off their hip meter. God knows our civilization might crumble if we were unable to perfectly gauge what’s hot and what’s not at any given second. People might have to actually start thinking for themselves. Oh dear. On second thought, maybe these charts are important.  | |
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BartVanHemelen said: sextonseven said: Prince doesn't care about the charts.
BS. Why sign with Sony? Why go on lame tv shows? Why sell out to Viacom? Why suddenly do radio interviews and other promo? Why revert back to greatest hits? Answer: he signed with major label and with major tour promotor to GET A HIT. This part of the convo reminds me of when P interviewed on the Today show promoting NewPowerSoul, Come 2 My House, and GCS... he referred to selling records to get ' a lot of cheddar' that turns into leverage. He most definitely knew what was gonna happen with soundscan. If he truly did set his mind on becoming relevant enough for his call to musicianship to actually have weight behind it, then this is a master stroke. I'm more inclined to see it that way... its all a part of the plan to get Prince back in the conversation about music and where it's headed. Reaffirm that, hey, R&B and pop doesn't have to be totally producer driven and devoid of artistry. Debate over soundscan is good, it actually shows the hypocrisy of worshipping the billboard charts, lol.. I'm loving it.. ********************************************
...Ur standing in the epicenter, Let the shaking begin... | |
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BorisFishpaw said: Hmm,
There's definitely something wrong with this, and it could open a pandora's box of problems. ...So there'd be nothing wrong, if say, Mariah Carey cut a deal with a chain of gas stations and gave away an album with every gallon of gas... and ended up topping the charts for a whole year with an album of her humming the theme tunes to TV shows in the bathroom? [This message was edited Fri Apr 30 13:06:26 2004 by BorisFishpaw] Gas isn't music related, and therein lies the difference. We're talking about a concert, not gas or a happy meal or some washing powder. | |
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dang!
... [This message was edited Fri Apr 30 19:26:20 2004 by Famboozled] | |
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Pandora's box was in affect when video spins from the mtv's and bet's of the world counted on the singles chart ever since soundscan came 2 b. See this works for an artist like Prince who is unconventional in every sense of the word. If the video channels don't play your videos in heavy rotation during primetime then an artist having a hit cd is slim. By getting the cd in2 as many hands as possible b4 critics and others get a hold of them the audience will b able 2 feel the new music without any bias. And also the word of mouth factor is big. Prince's biggest strength 2 me has always been his live shows which are legendary. These new acts can't compete with Prince performing just like Prince will never take over the 106&park or the trl crowd bcuz he's an elder statesman now. He's their parents music no matter how funky it is! If prince 'aint got the hottest rapper and the hottest neptune remix they're not gonna feel him right off the bat. It's going 2 take time but if P stays out in the public eye for the next few years he will find a happy nitch between commercial success and NPGMC! Prince changing the way things are done so that artist like himself can survive with relevance. The industry is taking notice now but in the mid 90's prince was supposed 2 bcrazy. Now who's the crazy one's! Bowdown MF's"THE EXODUS HAS BEGUN" U,ME,WE!....2FUNKY! | |
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Handclapsfingasnapz said: some industry fuck-pie (who's currently shittin kittens over this) sez: Preach on!,Preach on!"I am violently against this," one senior distribution executive says. "This is worse than 49 cent singles. The charts are supposed to represent what consumers are spending money on. With the Prince album, there is no choice."
 oh no! you mean that folks at the big bad record companies can't deal out more one-size-fits-all-pop-crappity-crap-crap-crap if other artists latch on to shit like this? stuff won't get forced down the collective throats of the worldwide listening public, cuz of the lack of representation? in short--
da horror. U,ME,WE!....2FUNKY! | |
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ELBOOGY said: Pandora's box was in affect when video spins from the mtv's and bet's of the world counted on the singles chart ever since soundscan came 2 b. See this works for an artist like Prince who is unconventional in every sense of the word. If the video channels don't play your videos in heavy rotation during primetime then an artist having a hit cd is slim. By getting the cd in2 as many hands as possible b4 critics and others get a hold of them the audience will b able 2 feel the new music without any bias. And also the word of mouth factor is big. Prince's biggest strength 2 me has always been his live shows which are legendary. These new acts can't compete with Prince performing just like Prince will never take over the 106&park or the trl crowd bcuz he's an elder statesman now. He's their parents music no matter how funky it is! If prince 'aint got the hottest rapper and the hottest neptune remix they're not gonna feel him right off the bat. It's going 2 take time but if P stays out in the public eye for the next few years he will find a happy nitch between commercial success and NPGMC! Prince changing the way things are done so that artist like himself can survive with relevance. The industry is taking notice now but in the mid 90's prince was supposed 2 bcrazy. Now who's the crazy one's! Bowdown MF's"THE EXODUS HAS BEGUN"
d*m* straight.....U preached as hard as Handclaps..... u & me, we got mad chemisty | |
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"I am violently against this," one senior distribution executive says.
What a loser thing to say. I don't want to toot my own horn, but I predicted this in a topic I started earlier this week. Prince may not be breaking new musical ground with this fun to listen to CD-but he is once again a pioneer. Everyone is paying attention, and as evidenced by the quote I copied at the beginning of my reply-some of the record industry is scared! Artists USUALLY make more money from touring than selling CD's-why NOT give it away? | |
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estelle1981 said: It's nice that at least one artist is giving something away at a concert. Most artist make a killing off of merchandise sales, and those are separate from concert sales. Some artists would probably rather die than give shit away for free or included in their ticket prices. For Prince to even put forth this idea shows that he appreciates his fans a little more than some artists. This is like the whole 'free music download' thing. Some artists liked the idea of getting their music out to their fans, but some hated it and tried to sue their fans. How can anyone continue to be a dedicated fan to an artist that is soo greedy that they want to sue you for some music that they probably didn't even write and don't even own, is beyond my understanding. Most people who download probably go out and buy the album anyways. Could the artist really be losing that much money from the few who don't? Thanks Prince for putting on a good show and giving something away to your fans for $75 bucks or less. The gesture is appreciated by me.
It is ridiculous to mention Prince as an artist who likes to give away anything for free to his fans because he apppreciates them  . He is the first artist who comes to mind when I think about artists who are greedy and are bold enough to sue his own fans for whatever weird reasons  . There's a huge difference between giving something away for free and making even more money by adding the price of a a CD to a ticket price!!!With a very special thank you to Tina: Is hammer already absolute, how much some people verändern...ICH hope is never so I will be! And if, then I hope that I would then have wen in my environment who joins me in the A.... | |
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The Backlash starts
Oh The Media loves to build you up to beat you down
sniff sniff I think I smell some backlash starting | |
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Prince in the begining was the one of the 1st to produce arrange and compose ...meaing all royalities goes back to him and again Prince has told many people in interviews that success in todays music biz is a joke yeah I may sell 50,000 units but the major profit goes to Prince. Prince most likely made more loot than usher\, janet, and madonna that way but this time Prince revealed the flaw in the system but this door open opportunies to new groups that can't get on radio of\r make a million dollar video it gets the music to the public bottom line. Prince is proving a major point MUSICOLOGY IS A LESSON IN BUSINESS the charts are nothing to him you should all know this by now as far as going with sony he used them mass manufacturing and showing how all can get PAID. The days of $17.00 concerts are gone you can't see a comedy show for $65 bucks so the whinn factor of I had no choice is a joke. Cd duplication is cheap and with ipod and etc.. I'm sorry to say this is a way Artists can be sure to get some monies back that are lost in cd burning and u guys know u have done it. If you all got a copy the chance of burning is less...I don't Prince is trying to cheat you by u not getting the picture book and lyrics some people can't go to the shows so that high end is for them to purchase ...yeah u got a cdr type but u did get a great show for a cheap price. | |
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Famboozled said: BorisFishpaw said: Hmm,
There's definitely something wrong with this, and it could open a pandora's box of problems. ...So there'd be nothing wrong, if say, Mariah Carey cut a deal with a chain of gas stations and gave away an album with every gallon of gas... and ended up topping the charts for a whole year with an album of her humming the theme tunes to TV shows in the bathroom? [This message was edited Fri Apr 30 13:06:26 2004 by BorisFishpaw] Gas isn't music related, and therein lies the difference. We're talking about a concert, not gas or a happy meal or some washing powder. I know, but using the same reasoning that allows the Musicology 'sales' to be included in the charts... it doesn't make any difference. "He asks how the company could not count the concert sales. "The manufacturer was paid by the promoter, who is reselling the merchandise to the consumer," he says. "Given that there is a sale . . . with the album ending up in the hands of the consumer, and we can confirm this, we feel we should count the sales."
You can see my point! Whether or not the sale is 'music related' doesn't come into it. By the same reasoning, a free CD given away with a magazine would count as a 'sale' too. So if an artist secured a deal with say, Rolling Stone magazine to cover-mount a free promo copy of their new album, they would count as sales. Even though the vast majority of people buying the mag would never have bought the CD otherwise. While I applaud Prince in getting his music into people's hands this way, I'm still against any 'free' item being counted as a 'sale', as it sets a dangerous precedent. | |
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Brendan said: Interesting. Just a few weeks ago you could have barely squeezed a yawn out of this idea. Now some in the industry are angered, at least one even “violently” so.
Next thing you’ll read is a report about Prince’s knee caps being threatened by some guy named Knuckles. Amazing flip-flop that was. We’ve gone from, that fool is giving away his newest CD to the only group of people left who might actually consider buying it, to that little fucker is unfairly helping his sales! I also find it humorous that people are angered because this change might in some small way throw off their hip meter. God knows our civilization might crumble if we were unable to perfectly gauge what’s hot and what’s not at any given second. People might have to actually start thinking for themselves. Oh dear. On second thought, maybe these charts are important. Co-fuckin'-sign. I forgot all about that. They were laughing at Prince about the giveaway. This is too cool. For Prince to be out of the spotlight and was being called washed up, then to make a comeback like this. This is too cool. But you know, they always get upset when someone disturbs the status quo. Then they'll take the idea and try to say they invented it. | |
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At the beginning of the article it states
that cds sold at mechandise tables at concerts are counted towards sales chart. Were the hit n'run cd singles ever counted & charted? | |
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EvilWhiteMale said: I would rather pay $70 to just see the concert instead of $80 for the concert and CD. In this situation, it's like a tax for me cuz I don't want the fucking thing.
Now ain't it a bitch, Prince made me go download the cd, Prince made me go to the store and purchase the cd, Prince made me go to the show and I had to pay $10 more for the cd! Just imagine, the amount of people that Prince tricks and they had no choice???! Maybe, they could put more options on concerts, I sometimes do not want to see the opening acts, and only want to see the headliners, just maybe I could have some sort of option to buy a ticket $5 less so I could show up late just to see the headliner | |
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On Prince web site about a year ago he had a post talking about there are only 7 major companys that run things in it he basic said that ( sony owns a music company owns a star theartre, owns vibe magizine, owns a distribution company .....meaning you think its alot put into making a star but the system feeds it self cuz your not depending on different companys to get you out there its all one company doing it) so Prince is showing us in the MUSICOLOGY LESSON a different way to beat the system because like most have said the old groups would not have a chance today and even worse the new groups that are talented today are not get the exposure they deserve. I ask u this do u think out there is a new young version of the Prince and MJ and Madonna we knew of the past and we can't hear or see them. I DO  | |
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BartVanHemelen said: Universaluv said: Although I agree that the opt-in approach definitely has its appeal, I'm just gonna guess that Prince is playing much larger venues than "Gomez", which would defintely add to the degree of difficulty in trying to make sure that only those who opted in got their cd's and noone was left out.
Nonsense. well thought out retort there  | |
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BorisFishpaw said:[quote] Famboozled said: I know, but using the same reasoning that allows the Musicology 'sales' to be included in the charts... it doesn't make any difference. "He asks how the company could not count the concert sales. "The manufacturer was paid by the promoter, who is reselling the merchandise to the consumer," he says. "Given that there is a sale . . . with the album ending up in the hands of the consumer, and we can confirm this, we feel we should count the sales."
You can see my point! Whether or not the sale is 'music related' doesn't come into it. By the same reasoning, a free CD given away with a magazine would count as a 'sale' too. So if an artist secured a deal with say, Rolling Stone magazine to cover-mount a free promo copy of their new album, they would count as sales. Even though the vast majority of people buying the mag would never have bought the CD otherwise. While I applaud Prince in getting his music into people's hands this way, I'm still against any 'free' item being counted as a 'sale', as it sets a dangerous precedent. "Free" is not the issue here though. Now if that issue of Rolling Stone cost you an extra 7 bucks than it normally would have, then you have a more comparable situation. . [This message was edited Sat May 1 9:52:49 2004 by Universaluv] | |
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BartVanHemelen said: moonshine said: Prince all over the charts and creating controversy for the record business too,its just like 1984 again
Prince fans and their misguided idea of "controversial". ----- It is not Prince fans who think this is controversial. It is the industry that thinks this is controversial. You need to put a sock in it once and for all. You are always going to be negative about anything Prince does. If he is putting out something experimental you don't like it if he does something pop you don't like. Fortunatly he is not making music for Bart. | |
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Well I have to stand up to this one BIG TIME
It's been long under cover that the Billboard systems of so called LABEL representations have needed an AUDIT for ages. Perks of RECORD LABELS and mishandled Monies to BID for TOP RATING spots on all kinds of charts have been OVERLOOKED. Prince;however, is doing the right thing... The RECORD COUNT is... as it STANDS high on the HONEST CHARTS.. Most ARTISTS would NEVER EVEN DARE to... give a CD at a venue they rather have you just REMEMBER the performance and thats it... WITH PRINCE he went beyond and gave a CD with his CONCERT (a real ARTIST) comes up with "GIVING" not taking. As for the so called BILLBOARD and other CHARTS I have to completely ... go against them for not telling the WHOLE TRUTH to their SO CALLED SYSTEM OF HONEST CHARTING. I have in the past had numerous conversations with people IN the business who know very well that RATINGS are oft PAID with PERKS from LABELS. (mayB I just opened a CAN OF WHOOP ASH) mayb its needed. Prince's RECORD SALES ARE MORE THAN A CHART... for once ... the charts are BEATEN and they don't know how to handle it... WELL HANDLE THIS "U mongrol CHART Rating INDUSTRY SHARK INFESTED SHADOWS" the shades are comin up on you too, cuz we the PEOPLE WANT HONESTY in the Business... SO GET TO IT... amen. Thank you and GODBLISS SingMia[b][color=blue][/color] | |
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realm said: EvilWhiteMale said: I would rather pay $70 to just see the concert instead of $80 for the concert and CD. In this situation, it's like a tax for me cuz I don't want the fucking thing.
Now ain't it a bitch, Prince made me go download the cd, Prince made me go to the store and purchase the cd, Prince made me go to the show and I had to pay $10 more for the cd! Just imagine, the amount of people that Prince tricks and they had no choice???! Maybe, they could put more options on concerts, I sometimes do not want to see the opening acts, and only want to see the headliners, just maybe I could have some sort of option to buy a ticket $5 less so I could show up late just to see the headliner He's just pissed off because he's increasing the sales of a CD he's spent weeks telling everyone that it is crap, so in a way he comes out looking like a hypocrit by default. 
I know! Let's look at it a different way. If you buy his CD through Ticketmaster, you get $10 off one of his concert tickets. NCC2012... your local Trekkie. =/\=
http://www.ncc2012.com | |
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NCC2012 said: realm said: Now ain't it a bitch, Prince made me go download the cd, Prince made me go to the store and purchase the cd, Prince made me go to the show and I had to pay $10 more for the cd! Just imagine, the amount of people that Prince tricks and they had no choice???! Maybe, they could put more options on concerts, I sometimes do not want to see the opening acts, and only want to see the headliners, just maybe I could have some sort of option to buy a ticket $5 less so I could show up late just to see the headliner He's just pissed off because he's increasing the sales of a CD he's spent weeks telling everyone that it is crap, so in a way he comes out looking like a hypocrit by default.
I know! Let's look at it a different way. If you buy his CD through Ticketmaster, you get $10 off one of his concert tickets. I suppose he should start in calling Prince a cheater about now? | |
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And just so that everything is cool... for the org'ers who dissed the fact that I knew what I was talking about and said I was wrong (see this previous post)
http://www.prince.org/msg...sg_1512831 - for future reference, ensure that you are aware of what you are talking about before you like to state what I have said as being wrong... I don't lie and won't speak if I don't know what I am talking about...  | |
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