independent and unofficial
Prince fan community site
Fri 24th May 2019 8:35am
Welcome! Sign up or enter username and password to remember me
Forum jump
Forums > Prince: Music and More > Is Warner Bros De-Valuing The Vault
« Previous topic  Next topic »
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Author

Tweet     Share

Message
Thread started 09/22/18 4:20am

donnyenglish

Is Warner Bros De-Valuing The Vault

It is a fair question for discussion whether the strategy by WB since his death is to de-value the vault for the short term by releasing subpar material so that they can make buy the entire vault for a cheaper price after the first several releases fail.


Very little material has been released since his death even though demand will decrease as time goes on. Purple Rain Deluxe was underwhelming. Piano & Mic 83 would have made a nice bootleg or bonus disc, but almost no one agrees that it is worthy of the first release from a vault that is said to contain amazing unheard music according to the person responsible for cataloging it.

It is ironic that Prince left WB because they wanted him to focus on releasing more accessible music and their first release is perhaps the most inaccessible non-instrumental release of all. The big debate after his death was whether unfinished work should be released, yet the first release is the definition of unfinsished. Why not put 17 days extended on PR Deluxe? Why no deleted scenes in the release of the movies? I can go on and on.


The only answer that makes sense is they are de-valuing the vault by releasing subpar/scant material for the short term so they can capitalize off the amazing/abundant material in the long term.
[Edited 9/22/18 4:35am]
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #1 posted 09/22/18 7:07am

Graycap23

avatar

In a word...........it seems so that wouldn't be in anyone's best interest.

I'll just say that they deserve some time.........

but so far, they have a failing grade.

The process is really just beginning, let's see what happens in the next year or 2.

[Edited 9/22/18 10:35am]

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #2 posted 09/22/18 7:16am

rdhull

avatar

You would have a case if is was 5-10 years in the future and nothing but Piano etc was released. His catalogue is still being itemized, sourced, etc etc. Let this taster live and give them time to get the vault in order so they can see what can and should be released before all this doomsday talk. Sheesh.

.

[Edited 9/22/18 7:42am]

lol it aint the estates fault you all devoured bootlegs and heard everything
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #3 posted 09/22/18 7:36am

GiggityGoo

avatar

rdhull said:

You woud have a case if is was 5-10 years in the future and nothing by Piano etc was released. His catalogue is still being itemized, sourced, etc etc. Let this taster live and give them time to get the vault in order so they can see what can and should be released before all this doomsday talk. Sheesh.

.

A-friggin'-men, brother.

.

What is wrong with you people? The people handling the estate can't just turn a key in the door of the Vault, and suddenly a rainbow of 30-track remastered never-released albums comes flying out! They're taking their time, cataloguing everyting, restoring things, making sure they've got their hands around all the material.

.

And the thing is, no matter what they put out, many of you are going to be pouting anyway, since whatever "rare tracks" they release you've already hoarded over years of being obsessive collectors.

.

Chill out. Read a book. Go outside and play. It's just music. It'll come. Be patient.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #4 posted 09/22/18 7:38am

AnnaSantana

rdhull said:

You woud have a case if is was 5-10 years in the future and nothing by Piano etc was released. His catalogue is still being itemized, sourced, etc etc. Let this taster live and give them time to get the vault in order so they can see what can and should be released before all this doomsday talk. Sheesh.


Agreed.
finger DONALD TRUMP
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #5 posted 09/22/18 7:46am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

donnyenglish said:

It is a fair question for discussion whether the strategy by WB since his death is to de-value the vault for the short term by releasing subpar material so that they can make buy the entire vault for a cheaper price after the first several releases fail. Very little material has been released since his death even though demand will decrease as time goes on. Purple Rain Deluxe was underwhelming. Piano & Mic 83 would have made a nice bootleg or bonus disc, but almost no one agrees that it is worthy of the first release from a vault that is said to contain amazing unheard music according to the person responsible for cataloging it. It is ironic that Prince left WB because they wanted him to focus on releasing more accessible music and their first release is perhaps the most inaccessible non-instrumental release of all. The big debate after his death was whether unfinished work should be released, yet the first release is the definition of unfinsished. Why not put 17 days extended on PR Deluxe? Why no deleted scenes in the release of the movies? I can go on and on. The only answer that makes sense is they are de-valuing the vault by releasing subpar/scant material for the short term so they can capitalize off the amazing/abundant material in the long term. [Edited 9/22/18 4:35am]

seriously? Are you figuring in all the Estate had to do and deal with inthe last 3 yrs? WB could not just jump to release stuff as well because of legal work that needed to be done, and the investigation, not to mention the earlier Vault stuff was found in disorder and even physical corruption.

Also WB doesn't have access to everything in the Vault. Talk to jZ and Tidal

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #6 posted 09/22/18 11:26am

renfield

avatar

On top of everything else that's been said, clearly they know what they're doing. We all balked at P&AM83 and it's number one right now on iTunes and getting rave reviews. To those who hadn't heard it before this is a fascinating look into the mind of a genius at work. This piques the interest of people who are interested in Prince but not obsessive like us, so they'll be ready for the studio albums that are sure to come. They have a long-term plan here with the mainstream that is not what us diehards want right now. We just have to be patient.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #7 posted 10/02/18 8:08am

donnyenglish

Piano & Mic 1983 is in the bottom 5 of his officially released albums. I don't buy the argument that they did they best they could when most of us could put together a playlist of bootlegs better than this release. They have access to plenty of better material than what they released.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #8 posted 10/02/18 8:16am

TwiliteKid

avatar

GiggityGoo said:

rdhull said:

You woud have a case if is was 5-10 years in the future and nothing by Piano etc was released. His catalogue is still being itemized, sourced, etc etc. Let this taster live and give them time to get the vault in order so they can see what can and should be released before all this doomsday talk. Sheesh.

.

A-friggin'-men, brother.

.

What is wrong with you people? The people handling the estate can't just turn a key in the door of the Vault, and suddenly a rainbow of 30-track remastered never-released albums comes flying out! They're taking their time, cataloguing everyting, restoring things, making sure they've got their hands around all the material.

.

And the thing is, no matter what they put out, many of you are going to be pouting anyway, since whatever "rare tracks" they release you've already hoarded over years of being obsessive collectors.

.

Chill out. Read a book. Go outside and play. It's just music. It'll come. Be patient.

Co-sign on both of these posts.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #9 posted 10/02/18 12:05pm

Germanegro

TwiliteKid said:

GiggityGoo said:

.

A-friggin'-men, brother.

.

What is wrong with you people? The people handling the estate can't just turn a key in the door of the Vault, and suddenly a rainbow of 30-track remastered never-released albums comes flying out! They're taking their time, cataloguing everyting, restoring things, making sure they've got their hands around all the material.

.

And the thing is, no matter what they put out, many of you are going to be pouting anyway, since whatever "rare tracks" they release you've already hoarded over years of being obsessive collectors.

.

Chill out. Read a book. Go outside and play. It's just music. It'll come. Be patient.

Co-sign on both of these posts.

yeahthat donnyenglish and the rest of the crew need to chillax and maybe listen to some of their Prince bootlegs while they're at it. Myself, I'll go listen to 'em and some other cool musicians in the meanwhile--whether or not Prince would have wanted it.

lol

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #10 posted 10/02/18 12:58pm

TrevorAyer

Even tho I love wally and come electra tuesday and many more known outtakes... i feel p+m83 has a better chance of pulling in a new audience ... the jazzy middle aged npr type listener ... not much in the vault that screams HIT but this little performance on piamo makes a nice stocking stuffer for anyone who likes say the norah jones type of music ... there isn’t much in prince catalog that i could easily gift to almost anyone without being nervous ... p+m is pretty universally great aside from the tape hiss ... disk 2 was good too but all those raspberry beret fans are not gonna get excited by a song like roadhouse garden ... even tho i love it ... p+m could pull in a jazzy croud which is a perfect lure to build into the amazing horn work outs from sott and parade eras
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #11 posted 10/02/18 4:03pm

42Kristen

Goody goodie gumdrops. Prince wanted his fans to buy prodcuts at am affordable price.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #12 posted 10/03/18 3:27am

djdaffy1227

avatar

Purple Rain deluxe was underwhelming? I thought disc 2 was GREAT! I don't even hate Piano & a microphone 1983. Will fans be happy with any release??

Making love and music are the only things worth fighting for.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #13 posted 10/03/18 4:20am

databank

avatar

donnyenglish said:

It is a fair question for discussion whether the strategy by WB since his death is to de-value the vault for the short term by releasing subpar material so that they can make buy the entire vault for a cheaper price after the first several releases fail. Very little material has been released since his death even though demand will decrease as time goes on. Purple Rain Deluxe was underwhelming. Piano & Mic 83 would have made a nice bootleg or bonus disc, but almost no one agrees that it is worthy of the first release from a vault that is said to contain amazing unheard music according to the person responsible for cataloging it. It is ironic that Prince left WB because they wanted him to focus on releasing more accessible music and their first release is perhaps the most inaccessible non-instrumental release of all. The big debate after his death was whether unfinished work should be released, yet the first release is the definition of unfinsished. Why not put 17 days extended on PR Deluxe? Why no deleted scenes in the release of the movies? I can go on and on. The only answer that makes sense is they are de-valuing the vault by releasing subpar/scant material for the short term so they can capitalize off the amazing/abundant material in the long term. [Edited 9/22/18 4:35am]

I'm sorry buy no, it makes no sense at all.

As explained above by others, matters are more complicated than that.

WB isn't alone to decide what to release, it's also and mostly the Estate's call.

Legal and financial matters were complicated to solve, Prince left a mess behind him, those things take time.

The vault is still in the process of inventory and restauration.

You don't plan a release overnight.

We also more or less know from various sources that by the time PR Deluxe was made, the vault hadn't been sorted out and the outtakes come from cassettes from the WB vault, not multitracks from the PP vault, so the choice was limited.

You ask why no 17 Days Extended, even admitting they had a copy, your tastes and priorities aren't necessarily universal. A curator may have felt that 17 Days Extended wasn't a priority. Prince sure did back in 1984.

Deleted scenes in movies involve WB films which is a different company, and would require lots of work to find and restore them.

And yes many people agree that P&AM is worthy of a first release, as you can read in the threads about it. I, for one, do believe it.

And while we haven't been snowed under releases, it's coming, things are falling into place. Let's see what the long term Estate policy is.

The world doesn't revolve around you, your perspective and your wishes.

What you are doing here is reinterpreting reality through the lenses of your subjectivity and trying to come-up with a theory that would give shape and meaning to, therefore justify the validity of your very personal perceptions. You can't achieve any understanding of the world around you until you give up such a manner of reasoning.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #14 posted 10/03/18 12:53pm

luvsexy4all

maybe all the vultures cant get their heads together and figure out whats best financially for all involved?????

[Edited 10/3/18 12:54pm]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #15 posted 10/03/18 2:58pm

jstar69

djdaffy1227 said:

Purple Rain deluxe was underwhelming? I thought disc 2 was GREAT! I don't even hate Piano & a microphone 1983. Will fans be happy with any release??



In a word - NO

You’re right - P&M83 has been critically acclaimed and I love it. PR disc 2 was fabulous with some tracks shocking the pants off most of us....
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #16 posted 10/04/18 6:43am

fen

avatar

rdhull said:

You would have a case if is was 5-10 years in the future and nothing but Piano etc was released. His catalogue is still being itemized, sourced, etc etc. Let this taster live and give them time to get the vault in order so they can see what can and should be released before all this doomsday talk. Sheesh.

.

[Edited 9/22/18 7:42am]



Yes, I agree – the main thing at this point is that everything is being preserved and properly catalogued. smile



Personally, I quite like the fact that they released Piano and Microphone 1983 – it shows a willingness to consider less mainstream material, purely from an artistic and historical perspective. I doubt that Prince would have been thrilled about it given his perfectionism (both in terms of polished performance and sound quality), but he wasn't always the best judge of the material that deserved to be heard.



It’s like those old Charlie Patton and Robert Johnson recordings – the ropey sound quality doesn’t detract from the power of the material at all in my view.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #17 posted 10/04/18 8:41am

rdhull

avatar

fen said:

rdhull said:

You would have a case if is was 5-10 years in the future and nothing but Piano etc was released. His catalogue is still being itemized, sourced, etc etc. Let this taster live and give them time to get the vault in order so they can see what can and should be released before all this doomsday talk. Sheesh.

.

[Edited 9/22/18 7:42am]



Yes, I agree – the main thing at this point is that everything is being preserved and properly catalogued. smile



Personally, I quite like the fact that they released Piano and Microphone 1983 – it shows a willingness to consider less mainstream material, purely from an artistic and historical perspective. I doubt that Prince would have been thrilled about it given his perfectionism (both in terms of polished performance and sound quality), but he wasn't always the best judge of the material that deserved to be heard.



It’s like those old Charlie Patton and Robert Johnson recordings – the ropey sound quality doesn’t detract from the power of the material at all in my view.

Exactly. This release is better than some bullshit like say...Planet Earf...

lol it aint the estates fault you all devoured bootlegs and heard everything
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #18 posted 10/04/18 10:20am

SquirrelMeat

avatar

Wait until the siblings get to call all the shots, rather than WB and the bank.

We'll look back at 2018 wishing for that level of prefessionalism. Just look at the urn, people. MTV Cribs style, here we come. lol lol

.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #19 posted 10/04/18 10:28am

fen

avatar

rdhull said:

fen said:



Yes, I agree – the main thing at this point is that everything is being preserved and properly catalogued. smile



Personally, I quite like the fact that they released Piano and Microphone 1983 – it shows a willingness to consider less mainstream material, purely from an artistic and historical perspective. I doubt that Prince would have been thrilled about it given his perfectionism (both in terms of polished performance and sound quality), but he wasn't always the best judge of the material that deserved to be heard.



It’s like those old Charlie Patton and Robert Johnson recordings – the ropey sound quality doesn’t detract from the power of the material at all in my view.

Exactly. This release is better than some bullshit like say...Planet Earf...

I still haven’t forgiven Prince for tempting me to buy a copy of the Mail On Sunday in order to get a copy (UK). Everything about it felt wrong. lol

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #20 posted 10/04/18 3:09pm

luvsexy4all

SquirrelMeat said:

Wait until the siblings get to call all the shots, rather than WB and the bank.

We'll look back at 2018 wishing for that level of prefessionalism. Just look at the urn, people. MTV Cribs style, here we come. lol lol

what makes u think this willl happen???

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #21 posted 10/04/18 5:22pm

Germanegro

luvsexy4all said:

SquirrelMeat said:

Wait until the siblings get to call all the shots, rather than WB and the bank.

We'll look back at 2018 wishing for that level of prefessionalism. Just look at the urn, people. MTV Cribs style, here we come. lol lol

what makes u think this willl happen???

The Prince Estate does not belong to Warner Brothers or any financial entity.


  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Prince: Music and More > Is Warner Bros De-Valuing The Vault