Reading these files is weird 😥 we all knew prince was human but it really humunaizes him

I read the reports and I still think you both are over-simplifying the situation. Prince was a secretive, high functioning addict. Yes, everyone "knew" but unless you were there for the doctors' appointments or he popped copious amounts of pills right in front of you, you don't have much of a case. Pain relief was needed. That part of the story that is often ignored in these discussions is crucial. Numerous people in those reports reference pain issues, wrist braces, chiropractors (hell, Prince himself had an email to KJ telling him that his back went out but seemed to have corrected itself)> They also reference PRince himself withdrawing (not as in drug withdrawal in this case, but as in isolating himself) due to pain and possibly depression. He didn't want to stop working to get the proper psychological, physical, and chemical therapy. People also reference PRince being tired and exhausted alot due to overworking. If he was going to kick you out for broaching the subject too harshy or too directly, you had 4 choices (all wrought with peril and a high possibility of failure). Speak up and risk being fired--but if you are fired, you are out of the loop (therefore out of a job but also out of the circle so unable to even subtlely broach the subject anymore). Broach the subject in a subtle way and hope it gets through to him--but then again he could go into denial mode or become more secretive. YOu could quit--but then you are replaced with someone who is even more of an enabler. You could go to the press--but then he could sue and he had a strong bit of deniability in his favor (due to the legitimate pain issues, his high functionality, and lack of direct witnesses). In other words, PRince had most of the power other than the power to deal with his own demons, insecurities, fears and addictions. He had all the power and yet was completely powerless. That is, until the end...at that point, he was powerless, period. At that point, his people should have been more proactive, more assertive, more fearless in their treatment. But he had them so trained, compartmentalized and confused that they were just working out what to do the last couple days of his life..but then what does he do? He goes ahead and overdoses. I think if there had been more time, this might have been finally worked out. I am not saying there weren't people who directly enabled. But they may have justified the milder version of enabling to themselves (milder in that it wasn't illegal dangerous counterfit pills) by saying that he was physically suffering and not taking them to get high. So, its complicated even for that kind of enabling.

I think the thing that complicates this the most is that PRince was not like Whitney or MJ..forced into performing by their families even though they wanted nothing more than to take a break and take care of themselves. Prince, being socially awkward and possibly borderline autistic, needed music like the air he breathed. He also put all his eggs into one basket. What would he be without the music? WHat would he be without the music, pain relief, calming drugs, and conditioned environment he was used to. I would hope he would have been just fine..moved to TUrks and Caicos, wrote children's stories, decreased his musical output, taught, mentored, married a nice woman, adopted some kids, and slowed down by 75%. But none of us can be sure of that. I think its fair to say that his associates may have also justified their behavior by saying that Prince doesn't have it in him to slow down, to quit music so that he could take the time to take care of himself physically, emotionally and psychologically, to retire. THat that prospect would have killed him quicker than any pills.

Camileyun said:

muchtoofast said:

He said he took 2 and 2 after he said he took 3 and 1. The doctor needed to know what was in his body not what was in that bottle. I think the people around him tried and tried and tried to get him to stop but bottom line it’s up to him.

Disagree. I don't see where anyone says they tried and tried and tried to help him, until the day before he passed. You may want to reread all of the interviews in the IR. Nowhere does anyone say anything to that affect. Rather, everyone knew but did nothing. I would love to think they did, and if you have any proof of that, at least it would give me hope that maybe someone really cared about this man!!

It humanizes him but it doesnt' encapsulate him. I hated his isolation but remember this was the bleakest 6 months of his life and he was attempting to hide an addiction to greater extent than he ever had before. I suspect that his habit had gone off the grid. NO doctors, just on his own. Also, nothing they would be talking about in those interviews would have anything to do with anything other than determining the seeds of destruction. The lighter happier sides of PRince are not being examined here because they probably would not give any info about what killed him. LIke in Dragnet, "Just the facts, maam"..in this case, the sad facts. Just remember this man is also Prince...

https://theiconicprince.wordpress.com/2018/07/11/prince-and-3rdeyegirl-share-new-music-at-late-night-paisley-park-rendezvous/

Keep in mind like Morris Hayes said Prince had like 5 different personalities. This investigative report mostly covers one or two of them. (stubborn and self destructive)

Strawberrylova123 said:

Reading these files is weird 😥 we all knew prince was human but it really humunaizes him

[Edited 8/1/18 14:32pm]

[Edited 8/1/18 14:42pm]

ThatWhiteDude said:

CatB said:

And that he hasn't attempted suicide in the past.

I've tried to ask before but some people needed the mystery of their 21 April date, that's why I will try again:

Are there any documented records of the aspirin and wine incident? I am not talking of Ronin Ro's or Alex Hahn's book (which is based on hearsay, is not accurate in many points and I wonder what his sources really were - he also asked me about things), nor Mayte's book or the nannies' daytime talk stories?

I mean actual records like the DEA thing we have now?

Again, the people I spoke to had never heard of it, nor that he had heart palpitations.

In other words, did that incident (suicide attempt or not) actually happen?

It's an honest question as I still don't know where the story came from.

There was a CNN Interview with Mayte where she said that the incident did happen in April, but she is not sure if it really was April 21st and she didn't say anything about suicide. Also, I might add, I don't think there are actual records like the DEA thing.

[Edited 8/1/18 13:22pm]

[Edited 8/1/18 13:23pm]

Yep, just what I thought...

And no one and nothing has confirmed it.

SkipperLove said:

I am sure there are other sources other than Mayte and the nannies to confirm or deny it. One can't throw a story out like that to the public if it is completely false without someone stating that it did not happen. As of now, no one has denied it.

ThatWhiteDude said:

There was a CNN Interview with Mayte where she said that the incident did happen in April, but she is not sure if it really was April 21st and she didn't say anything about suicide. Also, I might add, I don't think there are actual records like the DEA thing.

[Edited 8/1/18 13:22pm]

[Edited 8/1/18 13:23pm]

Militant said:

There was also an incident involving too much medication having been taken around 2010/2011. I'm not going to put it out there who confirmed it to me, because it was said off the record, but multiple bandmembers confirmed that it happened on tour.

Yes the same tour on which he "couldn't control his cocaine habit".

Three different peoples' words..doesn't necessarily confirm it. But sense no one denied it and one of those people is embraced by the PRince community..I suspect that its true. The date might be up for debate. Like, love, hate, or neutral about Mayte, I doubt she could make up this lie without someone calling her out somewhere about it..(on facebook or something.)

CatB said:

And no one and nothing has confirmed it.

SkipperLove said:

I am sure there are other sources other than Mayte and the nannies to confirm or deny it. One can't throw a story out like that to the public if it is completely false without someone stating that it did not happen. As of now, no one has denied it.

She's been called out on many things and lies and still is but she has enough supporters.

I am here for Prince and again, I've seen nothing so far that supports the "fact". There's been more that speaks for the contrary.

SkipperLove said:

Three different peoples' words..doesn't necessarily confirm it. But sense no one denied it and one of those people is embraced by the PRince community..I suspect that its true. The date might be up for debate. Like, love, hate, or neutral about Mayte, I doubt she could make up this lie without someone calling her out somewhere about it..(on facebook or something.)

CatB said:

And no one and nothing has confirmed it.

Who said he had a cocaine habit in 2010/2011? Are we talking about that greedy lawyer who worked for a drug-addled, messed up Duane and a greedy half sister. Poor Duane. But I don't buy the cocaine rumors. Partly because there was no cocaine found at paisley and partly because no one other than those two seemed to have witnessed it.

CatB said:

Militant said:

There was also an incident involving too much medication having been taken around 2010/2011. I'm not going to put it out there who confirmed it to me, because it was said off the record, but multiple bandmembers confirmed that it happened on tour.

Yes the same tour on which he "couldn't control his cocaine habit".

What speaks for the contrary?

CatB said:

She's been called out on many things and lies and still is but she has enough supporters.

I am here for Prince and again, I've seen nothing so far that supports the "fact". There's been more that speaks for the contrary.

SkipperLove said:

Three different peoples' words..doesn't necessarily confirm it. But sense no one denied it and one of those people is embraced by the PRince community..I suspect that its true. The date might be up for debate. Like, love, hate, or neutral about Mayte, I doubt she could make up this lie without someone calling her out somewhere about it..(on facebook or something.)

SkipperLove said:

Who said he had a cocaine habit in 2010/2011? Are we talking about that greedy lawyer who worked for a drug-addled, messed up Duane and a greedy half sister. Poor Duane. But I don't buy the cocaine rumors. Partly because there was no cocaine found at paisley and partly because no one other than those two seemed to have witnessed it.

CatB said:

Yes the same tour on which he "couldn't control his cocaine habit".

First log: http://www.co.carver.mn.u...nt?id=7375

SkipperLove said:

I read the reports and I still think you both are over-simplifying the situation. Prince was a secretive, high functioning addict. Yes, everyone "knew" but unless you were there for the doctors' appointments or he popped copious amounts of pills right in front of you, you don't have much of a case. Pain relief was needed. That part of the story that is often ignored in these discussions is crucial. Numerous people in those reports reference pain issues, wrist braces, chiropractors (hell, Prince himself had an email to KJ telling him that his back went out but seemed to have corrected itself)> They also reference PRince himself withdrawing (not as in drug withdrawal in this case, but as in isolating himself) due to pain and possibly depression. He didn't want to stop working to get the proper psychological, physical, and chemical therapy. People also reference PRince being tired and exhausted alot due to overworking. If he was going to kick you out for broaching the subject too harshy or too directly, you had 4 choices (all wrought with peril and a high possibility of failure). Speak up and risk being fired--but if you are fired, you are out of the loop (therefore out of a job but also out of the circle so unable to even subtlely broach the subject anymore). Broach the subject in a subtle way and hope it gets through to him--but then again he could go into denial mode or become more secretive. YOu could quit--but then you are replaced with someone who is even more of an enabler. You could go to the press--but then he could sue and he had a strong bit of deniability in his favor (due to the legitimate pain issues, his high functionality, and lack of direct witnesses). In other words, PRince had most of the power other than the power to deal with his own demons, insecurities, fears and addictions. He had all the power and yet was completely powerless. That is, until the end...at that point, he was powerless, period. At that point, his people should have been more proactive, more assertive, more fearless in their treatment. But he had them so trained, compartmentalized and confused that they were just working out what to do the last couple days of his life..but then what does he do? He goes ahead and overdoses. I think if there had been more time, this might have been finally worked out. I am not saying there weren't people who directly enabled. But they may have justified the milder version of enabling to themselves (milder in that it wasn't illegal dangerous counterfit pills) by saying that he was physically suffering and not taking them to get high. So, its complicated even for that kind of enabling.

I think the thing that complicates this the most is that PRince was not like Whitney or MJ..forced into performing by their families even though they wanted nothing more than to take a break and take care of themselves. Prince, being socially awkward and possibly borderline autistic, needed music like the air he breathed. He also put all his eggs into one basket. What would he be without the music? WHat would he be without the music, pain relief, calming drugs, and conditioned environment he was used to. I would hope he would have been just fine..moved to TUrks and Caicos, wrote children's stories, decreased his musical output, taught, mentored, married a nice woman, adopted some kids, and slowed down by 75%. But none of us can be sure of that. I think its fair to say that his associates may have also justified their behavior by saying that Prince doesn't have it in him to slow down, to quit music so that he could take the time to take care of himself physically, emotionally and psychologically, to retire. THat that prospect would have killed him quicker than any pills.

Camileyun said:

muchtoofast said: Disagree. I don't see where anyone says they tried and tried and tried to help him, until the day before he passed. You may want to reread all of the interviews in the IR. Nowhere does anyone say anything to that affect. Rather, everyone knew but did nothing. I would love to think they did, and if you have any proof of that, at least it would give me hope that maybe someone really cared about this man!!

Where is stuff like this coming from? I mean is this coming from people who a thoroughly versed in psychology, or just extroverted people who don't understand introverts? The last I heard being an introvert wasn't classified as some kind of psychological disorder, in the way that people seem to so casually throw those type of "oddities" into their statements as facts. Because, people who truly have psychological issues and are borderline this or that are that way even as a kid and usually have to struggle and learn various social skills as they get older. All I've ever gotten is he wanted to do what he wanted to do, associated with who he wanted to associated with, he was a team player when he wanted to be, a fighter, a jokster, the same person we see as adult.

I only say that because there are about 6 people I know of in the entertainment industry that get pinned with the borderline autistic label, yet only 2 have been professionally diagnosed. The other 4 are just what other people have decided to label them with, even though they themselves have never claimed those things. Seems like a generalized pot people like to throw other people in when they don't want to understand something.

Two people who knew Prince personally (quite intimately) thought he might have it. Prince, himself, was quoted as suspecting it. But regardless, I said "possibly" and the rest of my point stands firm. His approach to life was filtered through his music, his communication and social interactions were filtered through either the music itself or a musical environment. All these conditions made it hard to expect PRince to carry on in the "normal" non-musical, non-performing ways required to adjust and recover from addiction. Autistic people do joke, do socialize but sometimes its in a more controlled setting. There was also an article about acquired autistic savantism which can come on later in life as a result of brain trauma (a common trauma being epilpsy) and the brain recallibrating/adjusting to address the trauma.. Prince had epilepsy that disappeared around the same time he learned to play a piano. If he had this, he would have developed some social skills already, they just might have become a bit stunted and needed further work.

onlyforaminute said:

SkipperLove said:

I read the reports and I still think you both are over-simplifying the situation. Prince was a secretive, high functioning addict. Yes, everyone "knew" but unless you were there for the doctors' appointments or he popped copious amounts of pills right in front of you, you don't have much of a case. Pain relief was needed. That part of the story that is often ignored in these discussions is crucial. Numerous people in those reports reference pain issues, wrist braces, chiropractors (hell, Prince himself had an email to KJ telling him that his back went out but seemed to have corrected itself)> They also reference PRince himself withdrawing (not as in drug withdrawal in this case, but as in isolating himself) due to pain and possibly depression. He didn't want to stop working to get the proper psychological, physical, and chemical therapy. People also reference PRince being tired and exhausted alot due to overworking. If he was going to kick you out for broaching the subject too harshy or too directly, you had 4 choices (all wrought with peril and a high possibility of failure). Speak up and risk being fired--but if you are fired, you are out of the loop (therefore out of a job but also out of the circle so unable to even subtlely broach the subject anymore). Broach the subject in a subtle way and hope it gets through to him--but then again he could go into denial mode or become more secretive. YOu could quit--but then you are replaced with someone who is even more of an enabler. You could go to the press--but then he could sue and he had a strong bit of deniability in his favor (due to the legitimate pain issues, his high functionality, and lack of direct witnesses). In other words, PRince had most of the power other than the power to deal with his own demons, insecurities, fears and addictions. He had all the power and yet was completely powerless. That is, until the end...at that point, he was powerless, period. At that point, his people should have been more proactive, more assertive, more fearless in their treatment. But he had them so trained, compartmentalized and confused that they were just working out what to do the last couple days of his life..but then what does he do? He goes ahead and overdoses. I think if there had been more time, this might have been finally worked out. I am not saying there weren't people who directly enabled. But they may have justified the milder version of enabling to themselves (milder in that it wasn't illegal dangerous counterfit pills) by saying that he was physically suffering and not taking them to get high. So, its complicated even for that kind of enabling.

I think the thing that complicates this the most is that PRince was not like Whitney or MJ..forced into performing by their families even though they wanted nothing more than to take a break and take care of themselves. Prince, being socially awkward and possibly borderline autistic, needed music like the air he breathed. He also put all his eggs into one basket. What would he be without the music? WHat would he be without the music, pain relief, calming drugs, and conditioned environment he was used to. I would hope he would have been just fine..moved to TUrks and Caicos, wrote children's stories, decreased his musical output, taught, mentored, married a nice woman, adopted some kids, and slowed down by 75%. But none of us can be sure of that. I think its fair to say that his associates may have also justified their behavior by saying that Prince doesn't have it in him to slow down, to quit music so that he could take the time to take care of himself physically, emotionally and psychologically, to retire. THat that prospect would have killed him quicker than any pills.

Where is stuff like this coming from? I mean is this coming from people who a thoroughly versed in psychology, or just extroverted people who don't understand introverts? The last I heard being an introvert wasn't classified as some kind of psychological disorder, in the way that people seem to so casually throw those type of "oddities" into their statements as facts. Because, people who truly have psychological issues and are borderline this or that are that way even as a kid and usually have to struggle and learn various social skills as they get older. All I've ever gotten is he wanted to do what he wanted to do, associated with who he wanted to associated with, he was a team player when he wanted to be, a fighter, a jokster, the same person we see as adult.

I only say that because there are about 6 people I know of in the entertainment industry that get pinned with the borderline autistic label, yet only 2 have been professionally diagnosed. The other 4 are just what other people have decided to label them with, even though they themselves have never claimed those things. Seems like a generalized pot people like to throw other people in when they don't want to understand something.

[Edited 8/1/18 15:07pm]

SkipperLove said:

Two people who knew Prince personally (quite intimately) thought he might have it. Prince, himself, was quoted as suspecting it. But regardless, I said "possibly" and the rest of my point stands firm. His approach to life was filtered through his music, his communication and social interactions were filtered through either the music itself or a musical environment. All these conditions made it hard to expect PRince to carry on in the "normal" non-musical, non-performing ways required to adjust and recover from addiction. Autistic people do joke, do socialize but sometimes its in a more controlled setting. There was also an article about acquired autistic savantism which can come on later in life as a result of brain trauma (a common trauma being epilpsy) and the brain recallibrating/adjusting to address the trauma.. Prince had epilepsy that disappeared around the same time he learned to play a piano. If he had this, he would have developed some social skills already, they just might have become a bit stunted and needed further work.

onlyforaminute said:

Where is stuff like this coming from? I mean is this coming from people who a thoroughly versed in psychology, or just extroverted people who don't understand introverts? The last I heard being an introvert wasn't classified as some kind of psychological disorder, in the way that people seem to so casually throw those type of "oddities" into their statements as facts. Because, people who truly have psychological issues and are borderline this or that are that way even as a kid and usually have to struggle and learn various social skills as they get older. All I've ever gotten is he wanted to do what he wanted to do, associated with who he wanted to associated with, he was a team player when he wanted to be, a fighter, a jokster, the same person we see as adult.

I only say that because there are about 6 people I know of in the entertainment industry that get pinned with the borderline autistic label, yet only 2 have been professionally diagnosed. The other 4 are just what other people have decided to label them with, even though they themselves have never claimed those things. Seems like a generalized pot people like to throw other people in when they don't want to understand something.

[Edited 8/1/18 15:07pm]

When did Prince say that he suspected it? Are you someone who can professionally diagnose someone with autism? Were any of these associates? Have you met Prince or spoken to him? How can you label him as such -- even "possibly?"

CatB said:

According to this log report, PP had some form of security monitoring in 2015, as references were made to an alarm company.

EDIT>>>>>
Chill. IF folks can speculate that people hated PRince enough to kill him deliberately, then I can speculate about this. I will admit that I don't entirely remember where I read that Prince said that or if it was even a direct quote so maybe I am wrong about that one. But Jill JOnes and Susannah MElvoin speculated about PRince being low spectrum autistic--that part is confirmed.

Its speculation. I never said I was an expert. Just like you or anyone else on this thread are probably not a criminologist who knows more than the trained professionals who took on PRince' s case.

che777x said:

SkipperLove said:

Two people who knew Prince personally (quite intimately) thought he might have it. Prince, himself, was quoted as suspecting it. But regardless, I said "possibly" and the rest of my point stands firm. His approach to life was filtered through his music, his communication and social interactions were filtered through either the music itself or a musical environment. All these conditions made it hard to expect PRince to carry on in the "normal" non-musical, non-performing ways required to adjust and recover from addiction. Autistic people do joke, do socialize but sometimes its in a more controlled setting. There was also an article about acquired autistic savantism which can come on later in life as a result of brain trauma (a common trauma being epilpsy) and the brain recallibrating/adjusting to address the trauma.. Prince had epilepsy that disappeared around the same time he learned to play a piano. If he had this, he would have developed some social skills already, they just might have become a bit stunted and needed further work.

[Edited 8/1/18 15:07pm]

When did Prince say that he suspected it? Are you someone who can professionally diagnose someone with autism? Were any of these associates? Have you met Prince or spoken to him? How can you label him as such -- even "possibly?"

[Edited 8/1/18 16:11pm]

BEing low spectrum autistic should not be stigmatized or something to be ashamed if it is true. Its speculation based on reading about acquired autistic savantism, having autism in my family, reading about Prince, and reading others opinions. Reading a file trying to figure his death and ascertaining from that limited file/report that he was essentially a hated man by all around him---IMO--is much worse.

che777x said:

SkipperLove said:

Two people who knew Prince personally (quite intimately) thought he might have it. Prince, himself, was quoted as suspecting it. But regardless, I said "possibly" and the rest of my point stands firm. His approach to life was filtered through his music, his communication and social interactions were filtered through either the music itself or a musical environment. All these conditions made it hard to expect PRince to carry on in the "normal" non-musical, non-performing ways required to adjust and recover from addiction. Autistic people do joke, do socialize but sometimes its in a more controlled setting. There was also an article about acquired autistic savantism which can come on later in life as a result of brain trauma (a common trauma being epilpsy) and the brain recallibrating/adjusting to address the trauma.. Prince had epilepsy that disappeared around the same time he learned to play a piano. If he had this, he would have developed some social skills already, they just might have become a bit stunted and needed further work.

[Edited 8/1/18 15:07pm]

When did Prince say that he suspected it? Are you someone who can professionally diagnose someone with autism? Were any of these associates? Have you met Prince or spoken to him? How can you label him as such -- even "possibly?"

SkipperLove said:

Two people who knew Prince personally (quite intimately) thought he might have it. Prince, himself, was quoted as suspecting it. But regardless, I said "possibly" and the rest of my point stands firm. His approach to life was filtered through his music, his communication and social interactions were filtered through either the music itself or a musical environment. All these conditions made it hard to expect PRince to carry on in the "normal" non-musical, non-performing ways required to adjust and recover from addiction. Autistic people do joke, do socialize but sometimes its in a more controlled setting. There was also an article about acquired autistic savantism which can come on later in life as a result of brain trauma (a common trauma being epilpsy) and the brain recallibrating/adjusting to address the trauma.. Prince had epilepsy that disappeared around the same time he learned to play a piano. If he had this, he would have developed some social skills already, they just might have become a bit stunted and needed further work.

onlyforaminute said:

Where is stuff like this coming from? I mean is this coming from people who a thoroughly versed in psychology, or just extroverted people who don't understand introverts? The last I heard being an introvert wasn't classified as some kind of psychological disorder, in the way that people seem to so casually throw those type of "oddities" into their statements as facts. Because, people who truly have psychological issues and are borderline this or that are that way even as a kid and usually have to struggle and learn various social skills as they get older. All I've ever gotten is he wanted to do what he wanted to do, associated with who he wanted to associated with, he was a team player when he wanted to be, a fighter, a jokster, the same person we see as adult.

I only say that because there are about 6 people I know of in the entertainment industry that get pinned with the borderline autistic label, yet only 2 have been professionally diagnosed. The other 4 are just what other people have decided to label them with, even though they themselves have never claimed those things. Seems like a generalized pot people like to throw other people in when they don't want to understand something.

[Edited 8/1/18 15:07pm]

Yet Andre Cymone who also knew Prince intimately, rejects it, at least in one interview. So, what gives those 2 more authority towards being right? A degree in psychological disorders, or personal opinion? I mean, sure there could be some clinical name for the various ways Prince behaved or not, I'm sure there is a long list of various psychological curiousities known to man, why specifically borderline autism, especially for someone in the entertainment industry of all things? And you are repeating it without question, that's what the issue is, it's being repeated as if it could possibly be fact without any other possible explanation. Sounds like a broken record technique, you repeat it enough, it becomes real.

And yes, I've read up on Autism borderline and otherwise, so it's also why I'm asking why people are insistant on grabbing ahold to that one thing. Autistic people can train themselves to do a bunch of things, be teachers, comedians, actors, etc. but they in today's society are very very rare, and going back to the 70s even rarer.

SkipperLove said:

BEing low spectrum autistic should not be stigmatized or something to be ashamed if it is true. Its speculation based on reading about acquired autistic savantism, having autism in my family, reading about Prince, and reading others opinions. Reading a file trying to figure his death and ascertaining from that limited file/report that he was essentially a hated man by all around him---IMO--is much worse.

che777x said:

When did Prince say that he suspected it? Are you someone who can professionally diagnose someone with autism? Were any of these associates? Have you met Prince or spoken to him? How can you label him as such -- even "possibly?"

Hey Sweetie, Buddy, whatever...no one on this thread has EVER written, implied or insinuated that Prince was 'hated by all around him'...this thread exists because people LOVED and REVERED Prince and are PAINED by his loss....you need an attitude adjustment bigly.

SkipperLove said:

I totally agree. I just wish someone had tried. And if it did not work...try again. I agree it was complicated, but at least you'd know you exhausted all avenues. You can only do so much. I just don't think much was done, for whatever reasons his people want to tell themselves. If more was done, why withhold that information (unless it would contradict your claims to not have known about the problem)? As I said, I would love to know more was done to help him.

I have read some of Andre's interviews. I dont remember him discussing this. When you said "in at least one interview" does that mean in another interview he is neutral or unsure on the subject.

Once again let me reiterate. I think its a possibility that prince has it. I also think his conditions, musical obsessions, demand for privacy/control, and social awkwardness unless in controlled settings could be from a myriad of other reasons--abandonment issues, trust issues, insecurity, a bit of OCD...but autistic savantism encapsulated a bit more of his characteristics because of the "savant" side of it. A person's psyche is complex..I am not trying to minimalize the man. This all being said, he still had habits and routines, conditions and controlls that dominated his life. Addiction would have been hard to fight without deconstructing his life as PRince--the myserious, albeit charming, tough albeit warm, distant albeit romantic rock star and musical genius. And then on top of reconstructing his entire life rendering him quite vulnerble, he would have physical pain issues to contend with.

onlyforaminute said:

SkipperLove said:

Two people who knew Prince personally (quite intimately) thought he might have it. Prince, himself, was quoted as suspecting it. But regardless, I said "possibly" and the rest of my point stands firm. His approach to life was filtered through his music, his communication and social interactions were filtered through either the music itself or a musical environment. All these conditions made it hard to expect PRince to carry on in the "normal" non-musical, non-performing ways required to adjust and recover from addiction. Autistic people do joke, do socialize but sometimes its in a more controlled setting. There was also an article about acquired autistic savantism which can come on later in life as a result of brain trauma (a common trauma being epilpsy) and the brain recallibrating/adjusting to address the trauma.. Prince had epilepsy that disappeared around the same time he learned to play a piano. If he had this, he would have developed some social skills already, they just might have become a bit stunted and needed further work.

[Edited 8/1/18 15:07pm]

Yet Andre Cymone who also knew Prince intimately, rejects it, at least in one interview. So, what gives those 2 more authority towards being right? A degree in psychological disorders, or personal opinion? I mean, sure there could be some clinical name for the various ways Prince behaved or not, I'm sure there is a long list of various psychological curiousities known to man, why specifically borderline autism, especially for someone in the entertainment industry of all things? And you are repeating it without question, that's what the issue is, it's being repeated as if it could possibly be fact without any other possible explanation. Sounds like a broken record technique, you repeat it enough, it becomes real.

And yes, I've read up on Autism borderline and otherwise, so it's also why I'm asking why people are insistant on grabbing ahold to that one thing. Autistic people can train themselves to do a bunch of things, be teachers, comedians, actors, etc. but they in today's society are very very rare, and going back to the 70s even rarer.

[Edited 8/1/18 16:36pm]

Bodhitheblackdog said:

SkipperLove said:

BEing low spectrum autistic should not be stigmatized or something to be ashamed if it is true. Its speculation based on reading about acquired autistic savantism, having autism in my family, reading about Prince, and reading others opinions. Reading a file trying to figure his death and ascertaining from that limited file/report that he was essentially a hated man by all around him---IMO--is much worse.

Hey Sweetie, Buddy, whatever...no one on this thread has EVER written, implied or insinuated that Prince was 'hated by all around him'...this thread exists because people LOVED and REVERED Prince and are PAINED by his loss....you need an attitude adjustment bigly.

Agree Bodhi.

Skipper who said everybody around him hated him? And where has it been confirmed that he was on the spectrum?

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

PennyPurple said:

Thank you!

https://assets.documentcl...-Files.pdf

Basically, it appears that only his medical records from Moline are being released, and they have withheld the rest of the investigative files.

Wonder why? Because of the lawsuit? It really didn't tell us anything new.

I am not talking about fans. All AROUND HIM---was referring to his associates. Fans weren't around him.

Its implied when people say that his associates enabled him without any concern/conflict/mixed feelings whatsoever. Its implied when people speculate that he was murdered.

IF we are having a misunderstanding that is fine, but I wasn't accusing anyone on this board of thnking any one way or another about PRince. I was stating that a speculation about autism should not offend our sensibilities more than a speculation about him being hated by his employees.

My attitude started when people attacked me for speculating about autism--which quite frankly surprises me.

PennyPurple said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Hey Sweetie, Buddy, whatever...no one on this thread has EVER written, implied or insinuated that Prince was 'hated by all around him'...this thread exists because people LOVED and REVERED Prince and are PAINED by his loss....you need an attitude adjustment bigly.

Agree Bodhi.

Skipper who said everybody around him hated him? And where has it been confirmed that he was on the spectrum?

[Edited 8/1/18 16:45pm]

PennyPurple said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Hey Sweetie, Buddy, whatever...no one on this thread has EVER written, implied or insinuated that Prince was 'hated by all around him'...this thread exists because people LOVED and REVERED Prince and are PAINED by his loss....you need an attitude adjustment bigly.

Agree Bodhi.

Skipper who said everybody around him hated him? And where has it been confirmed that he was on the spectrum?

hey, s he's been here since April 2018...she knows everything LOL!

Take a deep breath. I have been a fan for 30 years. But really I need to present credentials?

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

Agree Bodhi.

Skipper who said everybody around him hated him? And where has it been confirmed that he was on the spectrum?

hey, s he's been here since April 2018...she knows everything LOL!

Militant said:

There was also an incident involving too much medication having been taken around 2010/2011. I'm not going to put it out there who confirmed it to me, because it was said off the record, but multiple bandmembers confirmed that it happened on tour.

Yes, it has been mentioned on here before. I believe 1 of the people involved tweeted or put out a post that said something like, they took care of it, or they got him to the hospital or something to that affect.

SkipperLove said:

I have read some of Andre's interviews. I dont remember him discussing this. When you said "in at least one interview" does that mean in another interview he is neutral or unsure on the subject.

Once again let me reiterate. I think its a possibility that prince has it. I also think his conditions, musical obsessions, demand for privacy/control, and social awkwardness unless in controlled settings could be from a myriad of other reasons--abandonment issues, trust issues, insecurity, a bit of OCD...but autistic savantism encapsulated a bit more of his characteristics because of the "savant" side of it. A person's psyche is complex..I am not trying to minimalize the man. This all being said, he still had habits and routines, conditions and controlls that dominated his life. Addiction would have been hard to fight without deconstructing his life as PRince--the myserious, albeit charming, tough albeit warm, distant albeit romantic rock star and musical genius. And then on top of reconstructing his entire life rendering him quite vulnerble, he would have physical pain issues to contend with.

onlyforaminute said:

Yet Andre Cymone who also knew Prince intimately, rejects it, at least in one interview. So, what gives those 2 more authority towards being right? A degree in psychological disorders, or personal opinion? I mean, sure there could be some clinical name for the various ways Prince behaved or not, I'm sure there is a long list of various psychological curiousities known to man, why specifically borderline autism, especially for someone in the entertainment industry of all things? And you are repeating it without question, that's what the issue is, it's being repeated as if it could possibly be fact without any other possible explanation. Sounds like a broken record technique, you repeat it enough, it becomes real.

And yes, I've read up on Autism borderline and otherwise, so it's also why I'm asking why people are insistant on grabbing ahold to that one thing. Autistic people can train themselves to do a bunch of things, be teachers, comedians, actors, etc. but they in today's society are very very rare, and going back to the 70s even rarer.

[Edited 8/1/18 16:36pm]

He directly addressed it. And he knew Prince as a teenager. The odds for someone with that type of issue to be that big of a self starter, self motivated, without any type of formal diagnosis, and strong support group, from the hood must be astronomical. And you are literally presenting an argument about a maybe without vetting the source. I get it, you respect the source, but that still doesn't make what they said fact. That's why I'm asking. Like OCD has come into pop culture without people understanding what it really means, and think it just something people do when they are really hyper-organized, so now everybody and their auntie has OCD because it's the "it" thing to have that means you are detailed in what you do, which is not true.

I think you present yourself well, obviously you've read a lot regarding Prince, and have kept abreast of what is being said. And like so many of us, searching for answers. I have no intention of getting in your way and doing battle with you incase it looks like I am from the other side.

Darryl Hannah, the actress, has been diagnosed as autistic. Dan Akroyd has as well. I am not sure about Prince. But there are performers who have been diagnosed as such. Autism has a massive, somewhat blurry spectrum. Maybe its over diagnosed sometimes. But its not impossible to be on that spectrum and be an entertainer who adjusts and cultivates better interpersonal relations as they get older.

onlyforaminute said:

SkipperLove said:

Two people who knew Prince personally (quite intimately) thought he might have it. Prince, himself, was quoted as suspecting it. But regardless, I said "possibly" and the rest of my point stands firm. His approach to life was filtered through his music, his communication and social interactions were filtered through either the music itself or a musical environment. All these conditions made it hard to expect PRince to carry on in the "normal" non-musical, non-performing ways required to adjust and recover from addiction. Autistic people do joke, do socialize but sometimes its in a more controlled setting. There was also an article about acquired autistic savantism which can come on later in life as a result of brain trauma (a common trauma being epilpsy) and the brain recallibrating/adjusting to address the trauma.. Prince had epilepsy that disappeared around the same time he learned to play a piano. If he had this, he would have developed some social skills already, they just might have become a bit stunted and needed further work.

[Edited 8/1/18 15:07pm]

Yet Andre Cymone who also knew Prince intimately, rejects it, at least in one interview. So, what gives those 2 more authority towards being right? A degree in psychological disorders, or personal opinion? I mean, sure there could be some clinical name for the various ways Prince behaved or not, I'm sure there is a long list of various psychological curiousities known to man, why specifically borderline autism, especially for someone in the entertainment industry of all things? And you are repeating it without question, that's what the issue is, it's being repeated as if it could possibly be fact without any other possible explanation. Sounds like a broken record technique, you repeat it enough, it becomes real.

And yes, I've read up on Autism borderline and otherwise, so it's also why I'm asking why people are insistant on grabbing ahold to that one thing. Autistic people can train themselves to do a bunch of things, be teachers, comedians, actors, etc. but they in today's society are very very rare, and going back to the 70s even rarer.

Camileyun said:

SkipperLove said:

I read the reports and I still think you both are over-simplifying the situation. Prince was a secretive, high functioning addict. Yes, everyone "knew" but unless you were there for the doctors' appointments or he popped copious amounts of pills right in front of you, you don't have much of a case. Pain relief was needed. That part of the story that is often ignored in these discussions is crucial. Numerous people in those reports reference pain issues, wrist braces, chiropractors (hell, Prince himself had an email to KJ telling him that his back went out but seemed to have corrected itself)> They also reference PRince himself withdrawing (not as in drug withdrawal in this case, but as in isolating himself) due to pain and possibly depression. He didn't want to stop working to get the proper psychological, physical, and chemical therapy. People also reference PRince being tired and exhausted alot due to overworking. If he was going to kick you out for broaching the subject too harshy or too directly, you had 4 choices (all wrought with peril and a high possibility of failure). Speak up and risk being fired--but if you are fired, you are out of the loop (therefore out of a job but also out of the circle so unable to even subtlely broach the subject anymore). Broach the subject in a subtle way and hope it gets through to him--but then again he could go into denial mode or become more secretive. YOu could quit--but then you are replaced with someone who is even more of an enabler. You could go to the press--but then he could sue and he had a strong bit of deniability in his favor (due to the legitimate pain issues, his high functionality, and lack of direct witnesses). In other words, PRince had most of the power other than the power to deal with his own demons, insecurities, fears and addictions. He had all the power and yet was completely powerless. That is, until the end...at that point, he was powerless, period. At that point, his people should have been more proactive, more assertive, more fearless in their treatment. But he had them so trained, compartmentalized and confused that they were just working out what to do the last couple days of his life..but then what does he do? He goes ahead and overdoses. I think if there had been more time, this might have been finally worked out. I am not saying there weren't people who directly enabled. But they may have justified the milder version of enabling to themselves (milder in that it wasn't illegal dangerous counterfit pills) by saying that he was physically suffering and not taking them to get high. So, its complicated even for that kind of enabling.

I think the thing that complicates this the most is that PRince was not like Whitney or MJ..forced into performing by their families even though they wanted nothing more than to take a break and take care of themselves. Prince, being socially awkward and possibly borderline autistic, needed music like the air he breathed. He also put all his eggs into one basket. What would he be without the music? WHat would he be without the music, pain relief, calming drugs, and conditioned environment he was used to. I would hope he would have been just fine..moved to TUrks and Caicos, wrote children's stories, decreased his musical output, taught, mentored, married a nice woman, adopted some kids, and slowed down by 75%. But none of us can be sure of that. I think its fair to say that his associates may have also justified their behavior by saying that Prince doesn't have it in him to slow down, to quit music so that he could take the time to take care of himself physically, emotionally and psychologically, to retire. THat that prospect would have killed him quicker than any pills.

I totally agree. I just wish someone had tried. And if it did not work...try again. I agree it was complicated, but at least you'd know you exhausted all avenues. You can only do so much. I just don't think much was done, for whatever reasons his people want to tell themselves. If more was done, why withhold that information (unless it would contradict your claims to not have known about the problem)? As I said, I would love to know more was done to help him.

As a hardcore fan, I tried the only way I knew and it didn't work. I asked those closet to him, that I was at least asquaited with, if they'd please ask P if he'd let me assist him. Lots of no replys/answers and the worse was the looking and walking away. At parties, when they'd tell us to leave Paisley Park, we left. I tried going s l o o o w l y out the door hoping I'd see him or find a way....but it didn't happen. There was no getting close to the Man. Even on a tour, we entered a room he was in, just sitting there. After everyone was seated, Prince jumps up and says something like: 'if anyone throws themselves at me, we will NEVER date.' Then he walked out of the room. I wish I would have known then, what I know now, If I did, maybe I would have thought I really could climb that fence and asked him to come out of Paisley Park that nite afterall