nelcp777 said:

PennyPurple said:

I wonder how long it would've taken for the pill to be sent to a lab for testing? I mean he wouldn't even let them admit him. What else were they supposed to do? And Walgreen's how were they to know that the scripts in KJ's name were for Prince?

I think the family is just trying to get all the $$ they can. At this point I think this is the only thing they care about. These lawsuits are just frivolous.

I am with each of you in regards to the lawsuits, I was just trying to provide some angle. I think they do not have merit. Even if the pill was tested, Prince would have been back at PP by then.

Walgreen's in pariticular has "deep pockets", so maybe it is a bit of a crap-shoot (for the family) to see if W. will cough up some cash to "make it go away" My brother is an attorney and he often uses this phrase to resolve irritating claims.

[Edited 7/3/18 12:15pm]

[Edited 7/3/18 12:19pm]

I think the family needs to focus on getting along with each other to get the Estate settled.

What do they think that the hospital and Walgreens could have done something so he didn't die? If the family did nothing, what were these 2 to do?

Rebeljuice said:

Menes said:

The number of pills is inconsequential to the ME as that number is a variable that cannot be quantified when there is no prescribed information or accountability available. What she did tell you( in conjunction with what Dr. Schulenberg stated/ narcan amount needed in Moline) are numbers that relate specifically to toxicology. Those numbers should serve as a beacon in ones search.

An example: Prince goes to see Dr.Schuleneberg after the Moline incident. There is no indication (per the test) that any other substance has showed up in his toxicology test except for Hydrocodone. Specifically, no fentanyl, percocets, MDMA, etc. Further, Prince is very coherent , alert, and engaged . Yet, his levels of hydrocodone from the test that day is a telling factor. This is by all accounts , the definition of a functional addict.

I've insisted on the numbers for the test (@ Dr. Schulenberg) because you can calculate dosage ( amount of pills) and any related information to determine how many pills he would have ingested in order to have that much hydrocodone in his system. With raw fentanyl, there is no way to gauge what each pill may contain, and so the data would remain undetermined. However, there is an indication that it is not the same set of pills that caused the overdose in Moline, and they are not the same set of pills that caused his death. There is a conscious decision to do two things after Moline. Regulate, and continue to use. (At least in one instance = visit to Dr. Schulenberg).

Unless there was a hidden stash that was not found @PP, one can assume with a fair amount of certainty that the same pills are in existence @ PP , prior to Moline and after. Therefore, if he was picking and ingesting pills at random, that visit to Dr. Schulenberg should be more in line with what happened in Moline and @ PP.

Does that mean he intentionally overdosed @ Moline and @ PP? My answer is two-fold. (a) I believe everything is contingent upon mood/moment and (b) what is available per each circumstance of mood and moment. This by definition is self-medicating and does not necessarily mean that a medical reason has to exist.It is a merely a thought, and can occur in an instant. I think anyone in the general population who is addicted to a substance can easily relate.

I have always been in two minds as to how Prince dealt with his addiction. 1) He was pretty naive about it all and just fed his addiction according to what his body was telling him he needed without much thought into what it was he put into his body. 2) He was very clued up on the chemistry and dosages and physical effects of what he was taking. He would split pills, combine and alter his pill intake depending on circumstance, physical health, food intake etc.

If the former then there is an argument that he could have died a long time ago. throwing caution to the wind and being obliviuous to what you are ingesting does not make for a long term drug habit. Not when your drug of choice is in the opiate family. But then are we sure he had a long term habit and not just something that over came him in the last year or two of his life? If we think he has been at it for many years then he could not have been this kind of care-free addict.

If the latter then there is a good case for determining Prince was a seasoned addict that controlled his intake and was able to function at high levels for a very long period of time. If this is the case, your example of Prince seeing Dr S and testing only for Hydrocodone could merely point to Prince knowing that a test on monday would reveal fent, but if he waited until Tuesday the fent, with its short half life would no longer be traceable. He wouldn't have to be a chemist to know these things. google will tell you a lot about it all. An addict will always try and hide, if not the addiction itself, then the seriousness of the addiction. If Prince was determined not to reveal the extent of how far down the rabbit hole he had gone, setting his own test dates is a way of continuing to hide the severity.

I'm kind of erring on the side of him being pretty knowledagle about his addiction and the chemicals he needed to feed it. And my reason for that is because I think he has been on this roller coaster for many years. I guess the only big question I have left is did he seek out the strong stuff or did he end up with it by accident. Afterall, he had prescription drugs around him that he could have taken (and was taking according to the Dr S test), so why take the pills in the Bayer bottle? Was it at a point where nothing else satisfied him? Or was he unlucky and thought he had something less potent?

bravo!!!

Great post! This needs to sink in for those who are leery

1. Unless Prince lived out his lyrics from SOTT ("now he's doing horse...it's June"...well, April in this case), It's almost absurd to think of one going from percocet to fentanyl in the course of a year...or 2 for that matter
2. Hydromorphone (Dilaudid)was found in his UA- he sought out the stronger stuff. Period.End. of. story.

Menes said:

Rebeljuice said:

I have always been in two minds as to how Prince dealt with his addiction. 1) He was pretty naive about it all and just fed his addiction according to what his body was telling him he needed without much thought into what it was he put into his body. 2) He was very clued up on the chemistry and dosages and physical effects of what he was taking. He would split pills, combine and alter his pill intake depending on circumstance, physical health, food intake etc.

If the former then there is an argument that he could have died a long time ago. throwing caution to the wind and being obliviuous to what you are ingesting does not make for a long term drug habit. Not when your drug of choice is in the opiate family. But then are we sure he had a long term habit and not just something that over came him in the last year or two of his life? If we think he has been at it for many years then he could not have been this kind of care-free addict.

If the latter then there is a good case for determining Prince was a seasoned addict that controlled his intake and was able to function at high levels for a very long period of time. If this is the case, your example of Prince seeing Dr S and testing only for Hydrocodone could merely point to Prince knowing that a test on monday would reveal fent, but if he waited until Tuesday the fent, with its short half life would no longer be traceable. He wouldn't have to be a chemist to know these things. google will tell you a lot about it all. An addict will always try and hide, if not the addiction itself, then the seriousness of the addiction. If Prince was determined not to reveal the extent of how far down the rabbit hole he had gone, setting his own test dates is a way of continuing to hide the severity.

I'm kind of erring on the side of him being pretty knowledagle about his addiction and the chemicals he needed to feed it. And my reason for that is because I think he has been on this roller coaster for many years. I guess the only big question I have left is did he seek out the strong stuff or did he end up with it by accident. Afterall, he had prescription drugs around him that he could have taken (and was taking according to the Dr S test), so why take the pills in the Bayer bottle? Was it at a point where nothing else satisfied him? Or was he unlucky and thought he had something less potent?

Even if he did obtain the deadly pills by accident, there is clear evidence that for (7) days after Moline , he was using opiates in a more controlled way. As in: (7) days of feeding without overdosing. That's why the numbers for the hydrocodone matter. Once you figure out how much hydrocodone he would have needed to take to overdose, in very short order , one would know that he understood the difference between what he did in Moline and what he was doing (7) days prior to his death. No comparison. What happened @ PP mirrors what happened in Moline.

It's interesting that he would allow Dr. Schulenberg to get a read on what he was doing because he went there while recently feeding. The odd thing is that he pretended to not know what he was doing when thoroughly questioned by Dr.Schulenberg. Why even go to the appointment? It's almost as if he thought he could outsmart everyone( to include a test). That should tell you something.

[Edited 6/28/18 14:29pm]

the only person he was trying to out smart was the ME AFTER he died.

Jennifer Matesa, a former addict and addiction specialist, said when Prince died - right out of the gate - that he had been using for YEARS. She was crucified for that, but it turns out she was right.

1Sasha said:

Jennifer Matesa, a former addict and addiction specialist, said when Prince died - right out of the gate - that he had been using for YEARS. She was crucified for that, but it turns out she was right.

no, she was projecting. Yes he was using for years, was he high out of his gourd all the time? including for photo shoots? I don't know.

precioux said:

Menes said:

Even if he did obtain the deadly pills by accident, there is clear evidence that for (7) days after Moline , he was using opiates in a more controlled way. As in: (7) days of feeding without overdosing. That's why the numbers for the hydrocodone matter. Once you figure out how much hydrocodone he would have needed to take to overdose, in very short order , one would know that he understood the difference between what he did in Moline and what he was doing (7) days prior to his death. No comparison. What happened @ PP mirrors what happened in Moline.

It's interesting that he would allow Dr. Schulenberg to get a read on what he was doing because he went there while recently feeding. The odd thing is that he pretended to not know what he was doing when thoroughly questioned by Dr.Schulenberg. Why even go to the appointment? It's almost as if he thought he could outsmart everyone( to include a test). That should tell you something.

[Edited 6/28/18 14:29pm]

the only person he was trying to out smart was the ME AFTER he died.

i kinda think he meant the plane incident to be the end, but I'm not sure. what are the odds he'd talk about his own mortality right before he almost dies if it was an accident? The "did all I came to do" thing and all. What contradicts an intentional od is judith saying he fought hard to come back and.., it seems kinda unusual to commit suicide right in front of someone. was judith honest? Hard to tell.

Zipfile 4 Picture #223, #228 plastic bag on the floor of the green bedroom. #242, 243 the baggies they found in the Green Bedroom. Those are the baggies I'm talking about. Did they test positive for XTC?

Zipfile 4 Picture #471, 472. Prince's restroom, in the bottom of the trashbag what is that powder? Looks like crushed pills. Could he have been crushing the pills and putting them in the enema bottles to insert rectally?

PeteSilas said:

1Sasha said:

Jennifer Matesa, a former addict and addiction specialist, said when Prince died - right out of the gate - that he had been using for YEARS. She was crucified for that, but it turns out she was right.

no, she was projecting. Yes he was using for years, was he high out of his gourd all the time? including for photo shoots? I don't know.

she wasn't projecting...she cited as evidence for her conclusion decades of pictures taken of Prince in low light with pinned pupils...and those pictures exist today for those who want to educate themselves.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PeteSilas said:

no, she was projecting. Yes he was using for years, was he high out of his gourd all the time? including for photo shoots? I don't know.

she wasn't projecting...she cited as evidence for her conclusion decades of pictures taken of Prince in low light with pinned pupils...and those pictures exist today for those who want to educate themselves.

Bod: I cosign.

When I had read Jennifer's articles in 2016, I went back and looked at several pictures and it was definitely apparent.

leec1 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

she wasn't projecting...she cited as evidence for her conclusion decades of pictures taken of Prince in low light with pinned pupils...and those pictures exist today for those who want to educate themselves.

Bod: I cosign.

When I had read Jennifer's articles in 2016, I went back and looked at several pictures and it was definitely apparent.

So just think, for a minute, about HOW MUCH MORE APPARENT it was to people in the music biz who had been dealing with all manner of addicts since the beginning of the industry...that's what is so galling to me...HIS industry peers knew and I can't quite accept that there was NO intervention that could have made a difference. Why didn't they love him enough? They all knew he was the GOAT.

PennyPurple said:

Zipfile 4 Picture #471, 472. Prince's restroom, in the bottom of the trashbag what is that powder? Looks like crushed pills. Could he have been crushing the pills and putting them in the enema bottles to insert rectally?

It does look like crushed pills but I dont think there was anything in the investigative file as to the results of the testing.

I also wonder what the results were on the two wrapped spoons found in the locked refrigerator that also contained audio and video files?

Bodhitheblackdog said:

leec1 said:

Bod: I cosign.

When I had read Jennifer's articles in 2016, I went back and looked at several pictures and it was definitely apparent.

So just think, for a minute, about HOW MUCH MORE APPARENT it was to people in the music biz who had been dealing with all manner of addicts since the beginning of the industry...that's what is so galling to me...HIS industry peers knew and I can't quite accept that there was NO intervention that could have made a difference. Why didn't they love him enough? They all knew he was the GOAT.

Unfortunately, I think that the reasons are twofold. I don't feel Prince was approachable. I also think there are too many self absorbed individuals that just don't care enough to try and help.

When I mention self absorbed people, they exist everywhere not just in the music industry. I know that is not a positive view of society but I see too many examples of selfishness.......

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

PennyPurple said:

Zipfile 4 Picture #471, 472. Prince's restroom, in the bottom of the trashbag what is that powder? Looks like crushed pills. Could he have been crushing the pills and putting them in the enema bottles to insert rectally?

It does look like crushed pills but I dont think there was anything in the investigative file as to the results of the testing.

I also wonder what the results were on the two wrapped spoons found in the locked refrigerator that also contained audio and video files?

2 wrapped spoons? I missed it. Now I gotta go back and find it.

PennyPurple said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

It does look like crushed pills but I dont think there was anything in the investigative file as to the results of the testing.

I also wonder what the results were on the two wrapped spoons found in the locked refrigerator that also contained audio and video files?

2 wrapped spoons? I missed it. Now I gotta go back and find it.

Page 6, Item #10 in the Investigative Report.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

nelcp777 said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Page 6, Item #10 in the Investigative Report.

Yeah, I thought that was very odd. Also, didn’t LE test the enemas and they did not contain any controlled substance? And is it weird that ni dialud was found although it was in his blood work the day before.

maybe they just overlooked it...PP is a big place and they were a little sloppy in the investigation...it's probably still there...

Bodhitheblackdog said:

nelcp777 said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said: Yeah, I thought that was very odd. Also, didn’t LE test the enemas and they did not contain any controlled substance? And is it weird that ni dialud was found although it was in his blood work the day before.

maybe they just overlooked it...PP is a big place and they were a little sloppy in the investigation...it's probably still there...

It was probably removed by the time they went back and was able to search. Of course, when you have a search warrant and rent-a-cop turns them away from the door and LE doesn't serve the search warrant and just leave, somethings wrong.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

PennyPurple said:

2 wrapped spoons? I missed it. Now I gotta go back and find it.

Page 6, Item #10 in the Investigative Report.

Wow, they collected them, wonder what they did with them?

precioux said:

Menes said:

Even if he did obtain the deadly pills by accident, there is clear evidence that for (7) days after Moline , he was using opiates in a more controlled way. As in: (7) days of feeding without overdosing. That's why the numbers for the hydrocodone matter. Once you figure out how much hydrocodone he would have needed to take to overdose, in very short order , one would know that he understood the difference between what he did in Moline and what he was doing (7) days prior to his death. No comparison. What happened @ PP mirrors what happened in Moline.

It's interesting that he would allow Dr. Schulenberg to get a read on what he was doing because he went there while recently feeding. The odd thing is that he pretended to not know what he was doing when thoroughly questioned by Dr.Schulenberg. Why even go to the appointment? It's almost as if he thought he could outsmart everyone( to include a test). That should tell you something.

[Edited 6/28/18 14:29pm]

the only person he was trying to out smart was the ME AFTER he died.

I will be putting forth my "lidocaine bullshit theory " shortly, to include why it was even suggested by a doctor and the unusual synergy between an opioid and lidocaine.... and yes, it does function as an NMDA RECEPTOR ANTAGONIST ( for the "scholars" on here, please review my previous posts on that) and you will figure out exactly why it was prescribed.

In addition, you should be able to understand what happens to nuerotransmitters when withdrawals set in. I maintain that this is not a "fluke"/cutting agent combination found in those pills. Nor was it a wild guess by Dr.Schulenberg to prescribe it. Penny/BOD check orgnotes.

Stay tuned.

Just ran across this in the files. Page 20 Photos of top floor room #3.

2 vitamin bottles that may have contained medication that did not match the vitamin on the label.

The 2 bottles were a GNC Copper Supplement and a Vit C bottle.

**This is different then the 2 vit c bottles that contained the Watsons.

Rebeljuice said:

When the thread is a discussion about people's thoughts and opinions, then it serves its purpose as a discussion thread. When someone brings in bullshit as scientific fact that sways the opinion of the general discussion, then we end up with Fox News. Thanks, but no thanks.

You will get more than fox news shortly, albeit condensed. We shall see how much you really know.

rednblue said:

BloodTypeStereo said:

Hi everyone, I usually just read on here and never comment.

The hostility towards others on here is really annoying sometimes. Only for that specific reason I will

disclose my occupation and contribute to the lidocaine/opioid-antagonist dispute.

Being an anaesthesiologist in a university hospital for almost 20 years I may have some sort of expertise on this conflict.

This doesn´t mean that I can answer the questions of why?, what were the sources?, how much was ingested? and the such.

Lidocaine is a blocker of voltage dependent sodium channels of nerve cell membranes.

Orally ingested, its bioavailability is 35% at best, that´s why it´s used either as a local anaesthetic or an iv antiarrhythmic agent

a) as a topic spray or gel, for example: sore throat; reducing the excitability of the glottis before

intubation; specific galenic formulation which penetrates the skin in order to reduce the local pain of iv injections in children; etc.

b) infiltrated subcutaneously or in direct proximity of nerves for providing nerve blocks

c) iv as an antiarrhythmic (class Ib) since the cardiac conduction system consists of nerve cells

d) iv during and after intraabdominal surgeries for pain relief if an epidural catheter is not applicable

It does not come in pill form since the first pass metabolism of the liver will eliminate most of it without showing up in systemic circulation. Without injecting, one can only hit high systemic levels when either overusing the topic spray since mucuous membranes resorbe it quickly and very well or swallowing a great amount of the spray or gel. The clinical manifestation would be cardiac arrhythmias or/and epileptic seizures if the levels are high. Sub-intoxicating levels may show in vertigo, dizziness, maybe sedation.

It doesn´t have any opioid-antagonist properties. I have never heard of it´s use as an anti-withdrawal-symptom-medication. In the country I am from, anaesthesiologists also work as pain management doctors, don´t know about the US, I´m from Europe.

An opioid-antagonist (like Naloxon) has to be injected since it´s first pass metabolism after oral use is even higher than the one following lidocaine, it´s 98% I believe.

In EU, fix combinations of opioids plus antagonist (Tilidin + Naloxon or Oxycodon + Naloxon) are available in pill form since the Naloxon is not resorbed orally and prevents the abdominal side effect of constipation, and to prevent people to solubilize and inject these formulations since the Naloxon would bring the user in withdrawals.

Yes, thank you.

When I was in school, we studied an earlier edition of Goodman and Gilman's The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics. In case it's helpful, here is a chart ("Opioid Agonists and Antagonists") from an edition published in December 2017.

"https://m.media-amazon.com/images/S/aplus-media/vc/ccd759e8-365b-4786-828b-909b0d835e8a.jpg"

Of course, research marches on, so these lists change over time.

Then you and I wil have an in depth discussion as it relates the defintion of "x" based upon its synergy with "y". I welcome this!

precioux said:

Rebeljuice said:

I have always been in two minds as to how Prince dealt with his addiction. 1) He was pretty naive about it all and just fed his addiction according to what his body was telling him he needed without much thought into what it was he put into his body. 2) He was very clued up on the chemistry and dosages and physical effects of what he was taking. He would split pills, combine and alter his pill intake depending on circumstance, physical health, food intake etc.

If the former then there is an argument that he could have died a long time ago. throwing caution to the wind and being obliviuous to what you are ingesting does not make for a long term drug habit. Not when your drug of choice is in the opiate family. But then are we sure he had a long term habit and not just something that over came him in the last year or two of his life? If we think he has been at it for many years then he could not have been this kind of care-free addict.

If the latter then there is a good case for determining Prince was a seasoned addict that controlled his intake and was able to function at high levels for a very long period of time. If this is the case, your example of Prince seeing Dr S and testing only for Hydrocodone could merely point to Prince knowing that a test on monday would reveal fent, but if he waited until Tuesday the fent, with its short half life would no longer be traceable. He wouldn't have to be a chemist to know these things. google will tell you a lot about it all. An addict will always try and hide, if not the addiction itself, then the seriousness of the addiction. If Prince was determined not to reveal the extent of how far down the rabbit hole he had gone, setting his own test dates is a way of continuing to hide the severity.

I'm kind of erring on the side of him being pretty knowledagle about his addiction and the chemicals he needed to feed it. And my reason for that is because I think he has been on this roller coaster for many years. I guess the only big question I have left is did he seek out the strong stuff or did he end up with it by accident. Afterall, he had prescription drugs around him that he could have taken (and was taking according to the Dr S test), so why take the pills in the Bayer bottle? Was it at a point where nothing else satisfied him? Or was he unlucky and thought he had something less potent?

bravo!!!

Great post! This needs to sink in for those who are leery

1. Unless Prince lived out his lyrics from SOTT ("now he's doing horse...it's June"...well, April in this case), It's almost absurd to think of one going from percocet to fentanyl in the course of a year...or 2 for that matter
2. Hydromorphone (Dilaudid)was found in his UA- he sought out the stronger stuff. Period.End. of. story.

Ah.. and in addition, he did need "something" when he felt the urge to quit cold turkey or taper off. This is not a stupid man. We would never know it if they didn't crack open those pills and tell you the contents, how they were paired, and how they were separated.This is like deciphering his lyrics. Good for you, Prince. After further review, there was "pain", just not from the hip.

PennyPurple said:

I know we were discussing the jacket and glove(s) found on the floor.

Page 38 in the investigative files #8 LE asked KJ about the fringed jacket and pair of gloves (with the symbol) on the floor, down the hallway from one of P's bedroom.

CooperC62057 said:

PennyPurple said:

2 wrapped spoons? I missed it. Now I gotta go back and find it.

Had a little discussion about this when I first saw this in the reports and was told it’s a beauty “trick” to place frozen wrapped spoons on your eyelids to reduce puffiness. I’m okay with that but wasn’t that refrigerator in or near the vault?

That's right we did have this discussion, but why would they be in the vault with tapes?

PennyPurple said: