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Thread started 10/07/17 12:28am

paulludvig

Tickle my Pickle

What was the final verdict on the instrumental Tickle my Pickle? It seems to be the basis for the W&L song Are you my Baby. Is the outtake genuine? When was it recorded? If it was recorded in 88 as is believed, why wasn't Prince credited on the W&L record?
The wooh is on the one!
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Reply #1 posted 10/07/17 2:18am

Lovejunky

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paulludvig said:

What was the final verdict on the instrumental Tickle my Pickle? It seems to be the basis for the W&L song Are you my Baby. Is the outtake genuine? When was it recorded? If it was recorded in 88 as is believed, why wasn't Prince credited on the W&L record?

I dont know anything other than

Prince was a lot less insistant on getting credits, than everyone else was/is

“LOVE IS THE MASTERPLAN”
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Reply #2 posted 10/07/17 5:02am

paulludvig

Lovejunky said:



paulludvig said:


What was the final verdict on the instrumental Tickle my Pickle? It seems to be the basis for the W&L song Are you my Baby. Is the outtake genuine? When was it recorded? If it was recorded in 88 as is believed, why wasn't Prince credited on the W&L record?

I dont know anything other than


Prince was a lot less insistant on getting credits, than everyone else was/is





That's true
The wooh is on the one!
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Reply #3 posted 10/07/17 5:57am

jaawwnn

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Same reason Andre Cymone isn't credited as a songwriter on Do Me,Baby I presume.
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Reply #4 posted 10/07/17 6:13am

paulludvig

jaawwnn said:

Same reason Andre Cymone isn't credited as a songwriter on Do Me,Baby I presume.

To hide someone's involvement?

The difference of course is that in the case of Do Me we have to take Andre's word for it that he contributed to the track. With Tickle My Pickle/Are you my baby we have the actual demo.

The wooh is on the one!
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Reply #5 posted 10/07/17 10:20am

databank

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paulludvig said:

What was the final verdict on the instrumental Tickle my Pickle?
Unfortunately there is no definitive verdict.
It seems to be the basis for the W&L song Are you my Baby.
Indeed.
Is the outtake genuine?
Consensus seems to be that it is, and BigChick, who is a reliable source, is convinced that it is. So no absolute certainty, but most likely it is, yes.
When was it recorded?
Check Princevault for available info.
If it was recorded in 88 as is believed, why wasn't Prince credited on the W&L record?
Why wasn't he credited isn't musch of a mystery, he usually wasn't credited for his contributions to other people's records at that time. The huge mystery is whether this track is really the basis for Are You My Baby or not, and IDK why Princevault hasn't addressed it yet. The mystery gets bigger when you know that in Summer 89, Prince selected Pickle as a possible candidate for a third Madhouse album. IDK exactly when Are You My Baby and Fruit At The Bottom were released, and I couldn't find that info anywhere, but it was at about the same time, so if Prince had decided to anonymously give the track to W&L for use, why consider using it on a future Madhouse album?
If we exclude the possibility that it's a fake, a possibility is that the circulating Tickle My Pickle is a different track than the known Tickle instrumental from 1988, but I really don't have a clue! Another possibility is that the track was recorded later and it is, in fact, the Prince track that's based on Are You My Baby. Yet another possibility is that both tracks were build on a groove composed and recorded by W&L prior to their departure, explaining the lack of credit to Prince. I really don't know, but something doesn't add up if you take the Madhouse story into account.
I had emailed W&L's website about it back when the outtake leaked, but never received any reply.

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Reply #6 posted 10/07/17 11:36am

laurarichardso
n

jaawwnn said:

Same reason Andre Cymone isn't credited as a songwriter on Do Me,Baby I presume.

Because that song is "Frantic Moment" by Eddie Hazel.
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Reply #7 posted 10/07/17 11:48am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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databank said:

paulludvig said:

I had emailed W&L's website about it back when the outtake leaked, but never received any reply.

nice overview databank

they had him do a remix of Lolly Lolly so I don't see any reason they wouldn't credit him if the song demo is his. He's also credited on the BrownMark songs from this period too.

A Lolly Lolly (Random Dance Mix)
Engineer – Susan RogersRemix – Steve Beltran
7:26
B1 Lolly Lolly (According To Prince)
Mixed By – PrinceVocals – Cole*, Susannah, Wendy & Lisa
4:19
B2 Hip Hop Love
Written-By – S. Melvoin*

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #8 posted 10/07/17 12:04pm

databank

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laurarichardson said:

jaawwnn said:
Same reason Andre Cymone isn't credited as a songwriter on Do Me,Baby I presume.
Because that song is "Frantic Moment" by Eddie Hazel.

I fail to see why people keep saying that. The similitudes between the 2 songs are limited to a short series of chords/notes that consist of a short break played twice in the Hazel song. Owning the Hazel album, I probably wouldn't even have noticed the similitude if people hadn't pointed it out on the org.

There's a margin between a song borrowing a chord structure from another song's break and building a totally different song around it, and it being that other song.

Given the very nature of pop music, certain musical structures are, inevitably, being rehashed over and over again. I'm not even certain that Prince/André consciously ripped Frantic Moment at all.

The similarities between the too tracks are so anecdotic that I doubt that Bernie, Bootsy and George could have won had they sued Prince for violation of copyright. Besides, given the very nature of Prince's and André's relation, being childhood friends and all, it's no big surprise André wasn't gonna start a legal battle with Prince, despite their friendship being stained at the time. He explained this pretty clearly in an interview on Podcast Juice: he was pissed but he moved on.

IDK, not everyone is greedy like that, some people sometimes feel it's better to just shrug and let go. Bernie Worrell was just like that for example: by his wife's own admission, while she tried to convince him to take legal action against George for royalties repayment, Bernie chose not to take that road and preferred to be at peace and just move on and forget about it.

Therefore, I find it a bit hasty to say that André didn't sue Prince because he was afraid George would then sue. I doubt he was thinking that far.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #9 posted 10/07/17 12:07pm

dance4me3121

I thought this song was one of those fake tracks
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Reply #10 posted 10/07/17 12:10pm

databank

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OldFriends4Sale said:

nice overview databank

they had him do a remix of Lolly Lolly so I don't see any reason they wouldn't credit him if the song demo is his. He's also credited on the BrownMark songs from this period too.

Could just be Prince didn't want to be credited, like on Like A Prayer.

You have a lot of articles and archives from those years: would you by any chance know which month the Fruit At The Bottom album and Are You My Baby single were respectively released? It would be interesting to know nod

[Edited 10/7/17 12:13pm]

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Reply #11 posted 10/07/17 12:13pm

databank

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^ Actually, as you mention the Lolly Lolly remix, yet another possibility would be that W&L also submitted Are You My Baby for remix and that Prince just had fun with it, à la Work That Fat. But that theory still doesn't solve everything any more than the theories I've exposed above.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #12 posted 10/07/17 12:38pm

paulludvig

There could perhaps have been two tracks with the word "Pickle" in the title? According to Princevault the track he gave to Leeds was originally called Sticky Wicked (not to be confused with the released song with the same title). The simplest explanation is that Prince gave the track to W&L and didn't bother to be credited.
The wooh is on the one!
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Reply #13 posted 10/07/17 12:41pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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paulludvig said:

There could perhaps have been two tracks with the word "Pickle" in the title? According to Princevault the track he gave to Leeds was originally called Sticky Wicked (not to be confused with the released song with the same title). The simplest explanation is that Prince gave the track to W&L and didn't bother to be credited.

Paulludvig you cannot look at this with unfiltered eyes.

You need it to be simply 'Prince gave the track to W&L and didn't bother to be credited'

u should Follow Databanks lead

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #14 posted 10/07/17 1:37pm

jaawwnn

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laurarichardson said:

jaawwnn said:

Same reason Andre Cymone isn't credited as a songwriter on Do Me,Baby I presume.

Because that song is "Frantic Moment" by Eddie Hazel.

There's a similarity alright but that's it, I'd say I could find another earlier song that's just as close, I'll get back to this thread if I do. So much of Do Me, Baby is down to Prince's vocsls that I always wonder what Andre Cymone's version sounded like. Princevault are very exact on their info, even straight up saying it was composed by Andre alone, someone in there must have a copy of it.
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Reply #15 posted 10/07/17 1:40pm

paulludvig

OldFriends4Sale said:



paulludvig said:


There could perhaps have been two tracks with the word "Pickle" in the title? According to Princevault the track he gave to Leeds was originally called Sticky Wicked (not to be confused with the released song with the same title). The simplest explanation is that Prince gave the track to W&L and didn't bother to be credited.


Paulludvig you cannot look at this with unfiltered eyes.


You need it to be simply 'Prince gave the track to W&L and didn't bother to be credited'



u should Follow Databanks lead



I agree with Databank that there are other possibilities as well, I just think the one I mentioned is the most likely. What do you think is the most likely explanation?
The wooh is on the one!
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Reply #16 posted 10/07/17 2:15pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Paulludvig you cannot look at this with unfiltered eyes.

You need it to be simply 'Prince gave the track to W&L and didn't bother to be credited'

u should Follow Databanks lead

I agree with Databank that there are other possibilities as well, I just think the one I mentioned is the most likely. What do you think is the most likely explanation?

Unfortunately there is no definitive verdict.

...a possibility is that the circulating Tickle My Pickle is a different track than the known Tickle instrumental from 1988, but I really don't have a clue! Another possibility is that the track was recorded later and it is, in fact, the Prince track that's based on Are You My Baby. Yet another possibility is that both tracks were build on a groove composed and recorded by W&L prior to their departure, explaining the lack of credit to Prince. I really don't know, but something doesn't add up if you take the Madhouse story into account.

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #17 posted 10/07/17 2:20pm

paulludvig

OldFriends4Sale said:



paulludvig said:


OldFriends4Sale said:



Paulludvig you cannot look at this with unfiltered eyes.


You need it to be simply 'Prince gave the track to W&L and didn't bother to be credited'



u should Follow Databanks lead



I agree with Databank that there are other possibilities as well, I just think the one I mentioned is the most likely. What do you think is the most likely explanation?


Unfortunately there is no definitive verdict.



...a possibility is that the circulating Tickle My Pickle is a different track than the known Tickle instrumental from 1988, but I really don't have a clue! Another possibility is that the track was recorded later and it is, in fact, the Prince track that's based on Are You My Baby. Yet another possibility is that both tracks were build on a groove composed and recorded by W&L prior to their departure, explaining the lack of credit to Prince. I really don't know, but something doesn't add up if you take the Madhouse story into account.



Yup. I read what Databank wrote and think he perfectly explains the different possibilities. I think it's most likely a Prince track to begin with.
The wooh is on the one!
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Reply #18 posted 10/07/17 2:44pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Unfortunately there is no definitive verdict.

...a possibility is that the circulating Tickle My Pickle is a different track than the known Tickle instrumental from 1988, but I really don't have a clue! Another possibility is that the track was recorded later and it is, in fact, the Prince track that's based on Are You My Baby. Yet another possibility is that both tracks were build on a groove composed and recorded by W&L prior to their departure, explaining the lack of credit to Prince. I really don't know, but something doesn't add up if you take the Madhouse story into account.

Yup. I read what Databank wrote and think he perfectly explains the different possibilities. I think it's most likely a Prince track to begin with.

oh sorry

Databanks words are were I am with it, he said it best so I just cut n paste

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #19 posted 10/07/17 6:22pm

dbpdexter

To me it sounds like the "Tickle my Pickle" part is a fan made overdub over the actual instrumental.

AKA PDEXTER
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Reply #20 posted 10/07/17 7:03pm

dance4me3121

dbpdexter said:

To me it sounds like the "Tickle my Pickle" part is a fan made overdub over the actual instrumental.


Yeah that's what I thought too
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Reply #21 posted 10/07/17 8:18pm

laurarichardso
n

jaawwnn said:

laurarichardson said:


Because that song is "Frantic Moment" by Eddie Hazel.

There's a similarity alright but that's it, I'd say I could find another earlier song that's just as close, I'll get back to this thread if I do. So much of Do Me, Baby is down to Prince's vocsls that I always wonder what Andre Cymone's version sounded like. Princevault are very exact on their info, even straight up saying it was composed by Andre alone, someone in there must have a copy of it.

-- The vocals make the song and Andre could never have pulled that vocal off in a million years. He ripped the music from Eddie Hazel and then gets a tude because it was ripped from him was a great vocal he could not have pulled off. At that point is it really his song anymore?
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Reply #22 posted 10/09/17 4:39pm

EddieC

dance4me3121 said:

I thought this song was one of those fake tracks

I wanted it to be fake. I've decided to treat it as real for now though, based largely on BigChick's authority. I mean, it could be real--though I really would like some clear explanation for it's relationship to Are You My Baby?

As to Do Me, Baby--did Andre ever make clear whether he was claiming the entireity of the song, or just some musical elements? Did he ever explicitly claim the lyrics? Did anyone else do so for him?
Oh, and I just listened to the Hazel track again--you have got to be kidding me. I mean, yes, I hear a chord progression--but if that's all we're talking about here, we should just stop talking. That ain't the song. Now--I found an old thread where someone compared Helene Smith's You Got to Be a Man to Prince's Kiss--and while I didn't really see any reason to complain about theft there either, I'm glad I listened to that track and to Frantic Moment this evening. I'd never heard the Smith song, and in my listens to Hazel's album I'd slept on Frantic Moment. I like them both, so cool.

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Reply #23 posted 10/09/17 5:49pm

Lovejunky

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paulludvig said:

What was the final verdict on the instrumental Tickle my Pickle? It seems to be the basis for the W&L song Are you my Baby. Is the outtake genuine? When was it recorded? If it was recorded in 88 as is believed, why wasn't Prince credited on the W&L record?

Same track with Vocals

Andre Cymone TROUBLE

https://www.youtube.com/w...CHd7phggNs

“LOVE IS THE MASTERPLAN”
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Reply #24 posted 10/09/17 9:30pm

databank

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Lovejunky said:

paulludvig said:

What was the final verdict on the instrumental Tickle my Pickle? It seems to be the basis for the W&L song Are you my Baby. Is the outtake genuine? When was it recorded? If it was recorded in 88 as is believed, why wasn't Prince credited on the W&L record?

Same track with Vocals

Andre Cymone TROUBLE

https://www.youtube.com/w...CHd7phggNs

What in the world are you talking about? This is Trouble not Tickle My Pickle/Are You My Baby.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #25 posted 10/09/17 9:51pm

Lovejunky

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lol

I dont know....had a long day

databank said:

Lovejunky said:

Same track with Vocals

Andre Cymone TROUBLE

https://www.youtube.com/w...CHd7phggNs

What in the world are you talking about? This is Trouble not Tickle My Pickle/Are You My Baby.

“LOVE IS THE MASTERPLAN”
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Reply #26 posted 10/09/17 10:05pm

databank

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Lovejunky said:

lol

I dont know....had a long day

databank said:

What in the world are you talking about? This is Trouble not Tickle My Pickle/Are You My Baby.

Lucky you if it's over. Mine is only halfway thru sad sad sad

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Reply #27 posted 10/10/17 12:08am

Lovejunky

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databank said:

Lovejunky said:

lol

I dont know....had a long day

Lucky you if it's over. Mine is only halfway thru sad sad sad

awwww come here then baby..

let me

tickle your pickle....

smile smile smile

“LOVE IS THE MASTERPLAN”
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Reply #28 posted 10/10/17 12:19am

databank

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Lovejunky said:

databank said:

Lucky you if it's over. Mine is only halfway thru sad sad sad

awwww come here then baby..

let me

tickle your pickle....

smile smile smile

falloff

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Reply #29 posted 10/10/17 1:13am

JorisE73

paulludvig said:

What was the final verdict on the instrumental Tickle my Pickle? It seems to be the basis for the W&L song Are you my Baby. Is the outtake genuine? When was it recorded? If it was recorded in 88 as is believed, why wasn't Prince credited on the W&L record?

I believe this was another one of those SeamoreFunk guy tracks.

He has some other songs that people thought was Prince, even though he doesn't sound anything like him. That SeamoreFunk person had some other track that had vocals extremely similar to that Tickle My Pickle song.

Here's a site with some of his songs: https://www.reverbnation....eamorefunk

[Edited 10/10/17 1:16am]

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