jtfolden said:

muleFunk said:

They knew that he probably wouldn't sell those albums and then they insured that he wouldn't when they moved him to the R&B division. 7 was one of the most played songs on the radio but it stopped at Number 7? It was the most played video on MTV for 3 weeks but didn't go Number 1. Prince started to recognize that he was being sabatoged on the charts which was part of the deal.

It must be stated that Prince sabotaged the album from the very beginning with his choice of single releases. WB wanted "7" as the lead single and he said no. He fought for Sexy MF, a song that couldn't even be played on the radio except with a stupid edit and it peaked at 66. The follow up MNIP was bombastic and hardly one of the better things from the album and struggled to make Top 40, but at least it could be played. It was only months after the release of the album that he finally agreed to "7" and the fact it went top 10 at that point at all is a testament to how great the song was... and it's all conjecture but I'm not sure the single choices beyond that were commercially smart, either. ...but I'm betting Prince still managed to blame WB for the bad showing as he would do for every record label thereafter.

Love Symbol is an amazing album,but I have always felt that a few of the singles were not good choices.As you mentioned,"Sexy MF" is a song that most radio stations simply couldn't play,for obvious reasons I also think that "The Morning Papers" was a poor choice....it's an OK song but not worthy of being a single.I wonder how things would have turned out if Prince had let Warners choose all of the singles.

SoulAlive said:

jtfolden said:

It must be stated that Prince sabotaged the album from the very beginning with his choice of single releases. WB wanted "7" as the lead single and he said no. He fought for Sexy MF, a song that couldn't even be played on the radio except with a stupid edit and it peaked at 66. The follow up MNIP was bombastic and hardly one of the better things from the album and struggled to make Top 40, but at least it could be played. It was only months after the release of the album that he finally agreed to "7" and the fact it went top 10 at that point at all is a testament to how great the song was... and it's all conjecture but I'm not sure the single choices beyond that were commercially smart, either. ...but I'm betting Prince still managed to blame WB for the bad showing as he would do for every record label thereafter.

Love Symbol is an amazing album,but I have always felt that a few of the singles were not good choices.As you mentioned,"Sexy MF" is a song that most radio stations simply couldn't play,for obvious reasons I also think that "The Morning Papers" was a poor choice....it's an OK song but not worthy of being a single.I wonder how things would have turned out if Prince had let Warners choose all of the singles.

I seem to remember Sexy MF and My Name is Prince being successful in the UK - Sexy MF had loads of airplay - even if it was the edit version. They weren't poor single choices from an exposure and rotation perspective. I think 7 didn't chart so well in the UK...I am happy to be proved wrong..I could go and look it up ...

...

Yeah - Sexy MF 4, My Name is Prince 7, 7 27, Morning Papers 52. The first two single choices weren't the matter here.

EnDoRpHn said:

There was a core group of us on amp in 93-94 who were totally supportive and understood back then, but the majority of the lurkers and poseurs were just as vicious as some of the overlords (aka:mods and haters) around here these days. AFAIK, rdhull is the only one still around. Asenath0607 said:

Feel like a total dotard (learned a new vocabulary word this week) for thinking that back when Prince wrote slave on his face he was out of is mind and simply seeking a new means of grabbing attention. Maybe if I had been on the Prince fan sites at the time, I would not have been so quick to believe the media narrative. He was astute and ahead of the game; others are seeing the light. I found this post to be very enlightening.

(Sorry, unsure how to link this)

https://travishoward.com/...roubadours

Yes....they are Overlords..

BartVanHemelen said:

blizzybiz said:

Shit, that is what I absolutely LOVED about the PP label!! Where else could you go to get a wide-range of different music, given the formulaic bullshit that started taking over at the time? Prince may not have run this like a fine-tuned biz, but I understand, and agree with, his intent; to relase a shit-load of different types of music that couldn't be categorized.

.

Except PPR lacked consistency. It wasn't all good music, and it wasn't all similar music. And that kills a small label. The likes of 4AD were such that you could almost blindly buy what they released because they stood for something. But PPR? At that point you're only serving hardcore collectors, and that's waaay too small an audience. And the worst part is that great stuff just went under the radar.

This is more of a general thing to the poster known as Bart. Why the fuck are you still here? Prince is dead, you know. All your venom is meaningless now. You hate him. He's a prick. He's this. He's that? So why the fuck are you on here wasting your time on someone you hate? Is it to make his fans feel bad? Or are you just mentally ill? For the love of Dog, if I hated an artist so much I sure as fuck wouldn't spend years and years and years dwelling on him? And years and years and years....

EnDoRpHn said:

There was a core group of us on amp in 93-94 who were totally supportive and understood back then, but the majority of the lurkers and poseurs were just as vicious as some of the overlords (aka:mods and haters) around here these days. AFAIK, rdhull is the only one still around. Asenath0607 said:

Feel like a total dotard (learned a new vocabulary word this week) for thinking that back when Prince wrote slave on his face he was out of is mind and simply seeking a new means of grabbing attention. Maybe if I had been on the Prince fan sites at the time, I would not have been so quick to believe the media narrative. He was astute and ahead of the game; others are seeing the light. I found this post to be very enlightening.

(Sorry, unsure how to link this)

https://travishoward.com/...roubadours

As far as you know isn't very far. I was on amp, lots of people were on amp; some changed their names. How could you claim to know that rdhull is the only one around? Are you all powerful?

I knew. Who didn't?

sro100 said:

Are you all powerful?

Yes.

EnDoRpHn said:

1725topp said:

I quite enjoyed 1993 – 1996 as it was contradictory on all fronts while being quite productive. On the one hand, Prince was mad about not controlling his music, yet from 1993 to 1996 we got a boatload of music. Maybe I shouldn't use the terms "boatload" and “slavery” together, but I digress. Also, Prince was saying that he wasn't going to promote anything for WB, but he was on tv and in the papers all the time and usually with new music. Next, I realized at the time that changing his name to an unpronounceable symbol and writing slave on his face was part real and part commercialism. On the one hand, he was pissed about not being able to force WB to release more music, pissed that they owned his masters, and pissed that he couldn’t escape his contract, and he had no real way to fight it. On the other hand, show business means to be as overly dramatic as possible when trying to make a point. As such, the only people who were pissed at Prince were the people who were mad that he was, once again, refusing to fit himself into their expectations. Also, whether you hated it or not, it was the most Prince move ever. To paraphrase Chris Rock, Prince didn't go crazy, he went Prince. And, to paraphrase a former org member, Spinlight, we all know that Prince is batshit crazy, and that's what we like/love about him. Only a batshit crazy mofo gon' come on stage in a raincoat and draws with legwarmers and heels. And, many years later, here comes that same fool with slave on his face, a name that can't nobody pronounce, wearing a scarf on his face, and whispering into his woman's ear like he's afraid that Big Brother is trying to steal his voice. It don't get no more Prince than that.

*

As far as him sabotaging his career, he wasn't going to be selling anymore records than he was. By then, the radio and video channels were filled with grunge and hip hop. I was glad when Prince went underground or to the internet so that I didn't have to worry about listening to the radio or watching video shows since I knew he wasn't going to get airtime. It was almost like being a Prince fan during the Dirty Mind/Controversy eras. Hell, the more I think about it, 1993 - 1996 was one of my favorite Prince eras because all the fake ass lame fans were gone. As Prince himself said, "That's not the type of audience you want. They only come around when you have a hit." Amen and Ashe. Fuck em! As a matter of fact, I think I'm going to write some crazy ass shit on my face, stand in my screen door, with my bathrobe wide open, and yell at young people walking by my house, "GET THE EFF OFF MY LAAAAWNNNNNN!!!

Amen and Ashe!! LOLBVS

sro100 said:

sro100 said:

EnDoRpHn said:

There was a core group of us on amp in 93-94 who were totally supportive and understood back then, but the majority of the lurkers and poseurs were just as vicious as some of the overlords (aka:mods and haters) around here these days. AFAIK, rdhull is the only one still around. Asenath0607 said:

As far as you know isn't very far. I was on amp, lots of people were on amp; some changed their names. How could you claim to know that rdhull is the only one around? Are you all powerful?

Lets be real here. My name is the only one that matters

btw, these pretzels are making me thirsty

rdhull said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Break it down B!

BartVanHemelen said:

Asenath0607 said:

He was astute and ahead of the game

.

No he wasn't. He was an insensitive prick who compared his luxurious job to slavery.

.

Moreover the likes of the Rolling Stones experienced much worse decades earlier. IIRC they still don't control all of their back catalogue.

.

Oh, and Prince signed that infamous $100 million contract of his own free will (and against the advice of his entourage) and was the first to release a press release, boasting that inflated number.

.

At the same time both REM and Metallica negotiated successfullywith WEA companies to gain the rights to their back catalogue. Meanwhile Prince behaved like a stubborn child instead of an adult, and sabotaged his own career by releasing substandard music.

It is just his opinion and plenty of people who were around disagree. I will take what they have to say over some dude sitting in his basement ranting about an artist he does not care about.

Oh and REM has their masters because WB knew it would not be of any value in the future. I think when you do five times the work you deserve the money and the masters.

No way on God's green earth did REM work harder for WB then Prince did.

MD431Madcat said:

Break it down B!

BartVanHemelen said:

.

No he wasn't. He was an insensitive prick who compared his luxurious job to slavery.

.

Moreover the likes of the Rolling Stones experienced much worse decades earlier. IIRC they still don't control all of their back catalogue.

.

Oh, and Prince signed that infamous $100 million contract of his own free will (and against the advice of his entourage) and was the first to release a press release, boasting that inflated number.

.

At the same time both REM and Metallica negotiated successfullywith WEA companies to gain the rights to their back catalogue. Meanwhile Prince behaved like a stubborn child instead of an adult, and sabotaged his own career by releasing substandard music.

Eh, the REM catalogue will be worth a lot for many years to come regardless of whether or not they worked as hard as Prince. In fact I would be surprised if their overall catalogue wasn't outselling his up until he died.

[Edited 11/3/17 9:51am]

Really I listen to a lot of stations that play 80s music and I hear more Prince then I do REM. He worked 10 times as hard and has 20 times the music they produced. They did not spawn a genre of music and never see these guys listed as an influence. WB let them have that catalogue because they did not think it would be worth anything. I do not even know of a lot of bands covering their music.

Do not like your love for a band make you think they are super popular. I know I can walk down the

street a find 10 people who know one Prince song. I bet I could not find five that could name an REM song and no one will be crying in the street if Mike Stripe died tommorow.

jaawwnn said:

Eh, the REM catalogue will be worth a lot for many years to come regardless of whether or not they worked as hard as Prince. In fact I would be surprised if their overall catalogue wasn't outselling his up until he died.

[Edited 11/3/17 9:51am]

I'm not really a fan of REM at all but their sales speak for themselves. I'll leave the googling to you. Only Purple Rain outsells their biggest 4 albums or so.

jaawwnn said:

I'm not really a fan of REM at all but their sales speak for themselves. I'll leave the googling to you. Only Purple Rain outsells their biggest 4 albums or so.

Not to mention none of their releases were really throwaways. Not dogging Prince but REM put a lot into all of their releases. I'll say things like PE, Come, Chaos & Disorder, Exodus, GN, NewPowerSoul, were allsome of his less inspired releases.

And please people, no shitstorm about how great Come is and how my opinion(s) suck etc.

rdhull said:

jaawwnn said:

I'm not really a fan of REM at all but their sales speak for themselves. I'll leave the googling to you. Only Purple Rain outsells their biggest 4 albums or so.

Not to mention none of their releases were really throwaways. Not dogging Prince but REM put a lot into all of their releases. I'll say things like PE, Come, Chaos & Disorder, Exodus, GN, NewPowerSoul, were allsome of his less inspired releases.

And please people, no shitstorm about how great Come is and how my opinion(s) suck etc.

But it is your opinion. According to Forbes he made 16 million this year. Do you really think REM catalogue is selling like that? We all know that Prince was a hard act to market and he was not on a major lable for 20 years. The quality and volume of his work in 20 times better then REM.

Also record companies are not going to give masters tapes back that they think have value. Even in Prince's case WB has a licensing deal with him because they still knew they could get money out of him. They have threaten to suit if the deal is not honored. They do think his catalogue is devoid of value.

Some of you are acting like REM was the Rolling Stones. These guys have disappered into the dust and they average person could not pick them out of crowd. It does not help that they were boring as a bowl of potatoes when they were around.

laurarichardson said:

rdhull said:

Not to mention none of their releases were really throwaways. Not dogging Prince but REM put a lot into all of their releases. I'll say things like PE, Come, Chaos & Disorder, Exodus, GN, NewPowerSoul, were allsome of his less inspired releases.

And please people, no shitstorm about how great Come is and how my opinion(s) suck etc.

But

You still around Laura?

laurarichardson said:

rdhull said:

Not to mention none of their releases were really throwaways. Not dogging Prince but REM put a lot into all of their releases. I'll say things like PE, Come, Chaos & Disorder, Exodus, GN, NewPowerSoul, were allsome of his less inspired releases.

And please people, no shitstorm about how great Come is and how my opinion(s) suck etc.

But it is your opinion. According to Forbes he made 16 million this year. Do you really think REM catalogue is selling like that? We all know that Prince was a hard act to market and he was not on a major lable for 20 years. The quality and volume of his work in 20 times better then REM.

Also record companies are not going to give masters tapes back that they think have value. Even in Prince's case WB has a licensing deal with him because they still knew they could get money out of him. They have threaten to suit if the deal is not honored. They do think his catalogue is devoid of value.

Some of you are acting like REM was the Rolling Stones. These guys have disappered into the dust and they average person could not pick them out of crowd. It does not help that they were boring as a bowl of potatoes when they were around.

I think you summed it up quite well here

jaawwnn said:

R.E.M.'s streaming figures look healthy to me, especially for a band who have had no major news in a decade, Losing My Religion is up there at Rolling Stones and Michael Jackson levels, actually higher than any Rolling Stones song by a considerable margin. But wait, Laura's personal opinion is that they are boring so WB must not have cared about them, oh and also they didn't work very hard or something. A solid case is being made here. [Edited 11/3/17 16:10pm]

I am looking at their output compared to Prince's so I am being factual instead of emotional.

WB gave them back their tapes for a reason. When Prince made his deal with WB it came with a licensing deal because WB wanted to continue to have a chance to make money from his music. I never heard of any licensing deal with REM.

The estate racked in 16 million per Forbes some of which had to come from royaties. I wonder how REM made in royatlies? Outside of Losing My Religion what songs the average person walking down the street would even know off the top of their heads and when was the last time you heard an REM song in a movie, teleivison program, or commercial? Or even while shopping in the grocery store because I heard not one but two Prince songs playing over the muszic in the Safeway this weekend.

Yes, artist get paid for muszac. $$$ I will wait for your response because REM is not the Rolling Stones or the Beatles.

My response is that calling someone "boring" isn't very factual. I never claimed REM were the Beatles or the Rolling Stones, I said one of their tracks is up there with the biggest in terms of streams. They're one of the biggest bands from the 80's and 90's whether you like it or not and your reasoning for them getting their masters back is bullshit, you might even say it's pretty emotional.

laurarichardson said:

jaawwnn said:

R.E.M.'s streaming figures look healthy to me, especially for a band who have had no major news in a decade, Losing My Religion is up there at Rolling Stones and Michael Jackson levels, actually higher than any Rolling Stones song by a considerable margin. But wait, Laura's personal opinion is that they are boring so WB must not have cared about them, oh and also they didn't work very hard or something. A solid case is being made here. [Edited 11/3/17 16:10pm]

I am looking at their output compared to Prince's so I am being factual instead of emotional.

A slave is someone who is forced to work. Work is something you wouldn't do UNLESS you were getting paid or were being forced. Prince never considered what he did "work." He did it all the time, it was his life. You can't "force" someone to do what they want to do. The "Slave" thing never made that much sense to me.