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Thread started 05/07/17 8:51pm

purplerabbitho
le

how was Prince able to pull off makeup and androgyny better than many of his associates?

I know Prince wasn't the first, nor the last dude, to wear makeup and effeminate clothes in the world of rock and funk, but boy, he pulled it off better than anyone other than Bowie.

I see pix of Mark Brown, Micki Free, Jesse Johnson, BObby Z, Miko Weaver, even Andre Cymone...all decent to good looking men and yet none of them (IMO) pulled off the look as well as Prince. I wonder why that is the case? Andre came close in some ways.

IF you agree that P pulled it off best, do you think it was because he was doing it a bit earlier, changing his look more frequently, seemed to be more ironic/punkish about it, had a combination of swagger/vulnerability that made it work for him, or was just prettier than most of the other fellas. I think it was probably all of the above. I think most of the other dudes looked silly and derivative when they attempted it.

Bowie pulled off androgyny well also, probably because Bowie had a flair for the dramatic and had a deep speaking and singing voice. Damn, Prince had those characteristics as well (except he usually didn't sing in a deep voice and his sense of dramatics was better on stage than on film..)

[Edited 5/7/17 20:54pm]

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Reply #1 posted 05/07/17 8:54pm

BeatofBlackWin
gs

Prince wore a lot of makeup, but not as much as some of his contemporaries. Both he and Michael Jackson seemed to want their makeup artists to merely enhance what they were given and use a slightly exaggerated, but natural look. They didn't typically have pounds of blush contouring their cheeks like other glam rockers.

.

Of course, some years Prince really piled on the pancake dust (see: 1993-1995). His hair during that time also had a kind of weird/extreme vibe that sort of made his whole look a bit like a gaunt clown. But in most lighting and in most eras, his makeup was pretty subtle.

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Reply #2 posted 05/07/17 8:58pm

purplerabbitho
le

HE concentrated mostly on his gorgeous eyes and covering up flaws in his complexion. I guess that made him look kind of emo or punkish rather than the cover of the Poison album..LOL.

As for Michael, he pulled it off well for a little while but ruined his looks with bad plastic surgery, and permanent makeup tattoed on.. I am not talking about how he dealt with his vitiligo either..

BeatofBlackWings said:

Prince wore a lot of makeup, but not as much as some of his contemporaries. Both he and Michael Jackson seemed to want their makeup artists to merely enhance what they were given and use a slightly exaggerated, but natural look. They didn't typically have pounds of blush contouring their cheeks like other glam rockers.

.

Of course, some years Prince really piled on the pancake dust (see: 1993-1995). His hair during that time also had a kind of weird/extreme vibe that sort of made his whole look a bit like a gaunt clown. But in most lighting and in most eras, his makeup was pretty subtle.

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Reply #3 posted 05/07/17 8:59pm

BeatofBlackWin
gs

purplerabbithole said:

HE concentrated mostly on his gorgeous eyes and covering up flaws in his complexion. I guess that made him look kind of emo or punkish rather than the cover of the Poison album..LOL.

As for Michael, he pulled it off well for a little while but ruined his looks with bad plastic surgery, and permanent makeup tattoed on.. I am not talking about how he dealt with his vitiligo either..

BeatofBlackWings said:

Prince wore a lot of makeup, but not as much as some of his contemporaries. Both he and Michael Jackson seemed to want their makeup artists to merely enhance what they were given and use a slightly exaggerated, but natural look. They didn't typically have pounds of blush contouring their cheeks like other glam rockers.

.

Of course, some years Prince really piled on the pancake dust (see: 1993-1995). His hair during that time also had a kind of weird/extreme vibe that sort of made his whole look a bit like a gaunt clown. But in most lighting and in most eras, his makeup was pretty subtle.

Agreed on all points. I really don't think he was going for the same deal that his contemporaries were going for. Which is kind odd, no? Prince probably got the biggest flak for looking feminine, but he looked way more masculine than any member of Poison or Ratt or DeBarge.

[Edited 5/7/17 21:00pm]

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Reply #4 posted 05/07/17 9:11pm

khill95

I agree with everyone saying he didn't go to extremes often. But also...it was HIM. He wasn't following a trend, it was his personal style. I read in a piece by Sheila that when they first met in the late 70s, he had a big old Afro and more eyeliner than her. lol He owned the look with confidence.
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Reply #5 posted 05/07/17 9:14pm

purplerabbitho
le

I think he got flak for being feminine by only those who didn't know his music well. From a distance, he was a dainty little dude almost more pretty than many girls and often sang in a falsetto. He also wasn't afraid of sexualizing himself and making himself appear sexually vulnerable. But I imagine there was a lot of men who begrudgedly became P fans because a girlfriend dragged them to a concert or they heard "Darling Nikki" and Prince earned his 'man' credibility by wailing on a guitar and speaking in his suprisingly deep voice and showing his swagger/sense of humor on stage..

As for glam rockers etc, their androgyny was so completely tongue in cheek that it wasn't even really androgyny. Poison were super macho dudes who never seemed vulnerable sexually or in their music. They were all about the conquest, never about being conquered by women.

BeatofBlackWings said:

purplerabbithole said:

HE concentrated mostly on his gorgeous eyes and covering up flaws in his complexion. I guess that made him look kind of emo or punkish rather than the cover of the Poison album..LOL.

As for Michael, he pulled it off well for a little while but ruined his looks with bad plastic surgery, and permanent makeup tattoed on.. I am not talking about how he dealt with his vitiligo either..

Agreed on all points. I really don't think he was going for the same deal that his contemporaries were going for. Which is kind odd, no? Prince probably got the biggest flak for looking feminine, but he looked way more masculine than any member of Poison or Ratt or DeBarge.

[Edited 5/7/17 21:00pm]

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Reply #6 posted 05/07/17 9:16pm

mbdtyler

I'm not an expert on makeup or anything, but honestly, Prince was just a very pretty dude. Must've had some damn good genes.

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Reply #7 posted 05/07/17 9:19pm

rdhull

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Because he was slight of build with delicate features.

And everytime I scratch my nails down someone else's back I hope you feel it.. WELL CAN YA FEEL IT?!
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Reply #8 posted 05/07/17 9:27pm

BeatofBlackWin
gs

rdhull said:

Because he was slight of build with delicate features.

Still had that big ol head, tho

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Reply #9 posted 05/07/17 9:34pm

LBrent

BeatofBlackWings said:

Agreed on all points. I really don't think he was going for the same deal that his contemporaries were going for. Which is kind odd, no? Prince probably got the biggest flak for looking feminine, but he looked way more masculine than any member of Poison or Ratt or DeBarge.

[Edited 5/7/17 21:00pm]

purplerabbithole said:

I think he got flak for being feminine by only those who didn't know his music well. From a distance, he was a dainty little dude almost more pretty than many girls and often sang in a falsetto. He also wasn't afraid of sexualizing himself and making himself appear sexually vulnerable. But I imagine there was a lot of men who begrudgedly became P fans because a girlfriend dragged them to a concert or they heard "Darling Nikki" and Prince earned his 'man' credibility by wailing on a guitar and speaking in his suprisingly deep voice and showing his swagger/sense of humor on stage..

As for glam rockers etc, their androgyny was so completely tongue in cheek that it wasn't even really androgyny. Poison were super macho dudes who never seemed vulnerable sexually or in their music. They were all about the conquest, never about being conquered by women.

Yes, I agree about the difference between the "glam rockers" being simply macho guys wearing the "androgyny costume".

In Bowie's case, he actually was known to be bisexual back in the day so that added to his androgyny "street cred".

In P's case, he was doing the same stuff on and off stage as far as his style and grooming, in the same way that a female might get up on her day off work and put on a light bit of makeup and her favourite scent and outfit, purple associates have confirmed forever that P was the same way. He wasn't putting on a costume.

As for P's masculinity, I was just having this conversation with another fan and why P made men so uncomfortable with his unapologetic femininity, yet was still masculine as hell and sexy to women. We're still discussing it, but the vulnerability was brought up and also his unflinchingly seductive nature. He doesn't play vulnerable as weak like some others I won't name. Even when he was being quitely subdued, his natural speaking voice was deep and strong and sexy as opposed to the cringeworthy affectation of the sound of a butterfly's wings in a summer breeze.

Baby boy was pretty and petite, but his masculinity wasn't compromised one bit.

Just sayin.

[Edited 5/7/17 21:42pm]

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Reply #10 posted 05/07/17 9:37pm

LBrent

BeatofBlackWings said:

rdhull said:

Because he was slight of build with delicate features.

Still had that big ol head, tho

eek confused

Leave that chile's big ol' punkin head alone!

(He really did have a damned noggin, do, innit?)

lol

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Reply #11 posted 05/07/17 9:39pm

BeatofBlackWin
gs

LBrent said:

BeatofBlackWings said:

Still had that big ol head, tho

eek confused

Leave that chile's big ol' punkin head alone!

(He really did have a damned noggin, do, innit?)

lol

lol lol I love hims big ol punkin head, but I'm sayin

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Reply #12 posted 05/07/17 9:41pm

TrivialPursuit

LBrent said:

BeatofBlackWings said:

Still had that big ol head, tho

eek confused

Leave that chile's big ol' punkin head alone!

(He really did have a damned noggin, do, innit?)

lol


I've been sayin' it's that Pfeiffer gene. It's plausible.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
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Reply #13 posted 05/07/17 9:47pm

LBrent

TrivialPursuit said:

LBrent said:

eek confused

Leave that chile's big ol' punkin head alone!

(He really did have a damned noggin, do, innit?)

lol


I've been sayin' it's that Pfeiffer gene. It's plausible.

Funny you should mention that because when Kim Berry casually/innocently said P was "tender headed", the thought of PS went through my mind very breifly and I wondered if those two things could be even remotely related to each other.

I dunno.

Hmmmmm...

confused

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Reply #14 posted 05/07/17 10:15pm

paulludvig

TrivialPursuit said:



LBrent said:




BeatofBlackWings said:



Still had that big ol head, tho




eek confused



Leave that chile's big ol' punkin head alone!



(He really did have a damned noggin, do, innit?)



lol




I've been sayin' it's that Pfeiffer gene. It's plausible.



Wasn't his head normal size, but the rest of him tiny?
The wooh is on the one!
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Reply #15 posted 05/07/17 10:20pm

jackson35

paulludvig said:

TrivialPursuit said:


I've been sayin' it's that Pfeiffer gene. It's plausible.

Wasn't his head normal size, but the rest of him tiny?

simple warners bros and big chick.

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Reply #16 posted 05/07/17 10:26pm

TrivialPursuit

LBrent said:

Funny you should mention that because when Kim Berry casually/innocently said P was "tender headed", the thought of PS went through my mind very breifly and I wondered if those two things could be even remotely related to each other.


Perhaps, but it's not a condition of the skin or neurological. Being a former hairstylist for years, I had the most random of people be tender headed. It seemed like the slightest of tugs would set them off into a near-leap out of my chair. And I wasn't necessarily heavy-handed to being with.

P was tender all around, I think. Inside and out. I bet his bottom was cushy like a poof from Pier 1.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
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Reply #17 posted 05/07/17 11:04pm

LBrent


paulludvig said:

TrivialPursuit said:


I've been sayin' it's that Pfeiffer gene. It's plausible.

Wasn't his head normal size, but the rest of him tiny?

That is another way to look at it.

Either way, he was cutie-patootie.

TrivialPursuit said:

LBrent said:

Funny you should mention that because when Kim Berry casually/innocently said P was "tender headed", the thought of PS went through my mind very breifly and I wondered if those two things could be even remotely related to each other.


Perhaps, but it's not a condition of the skin or neurological. Being a former hairstylist for years, I had the most random of people be tender headed. It seemed like the slightest of tugs would set them off into a near-leap out of my chair. And I wasn't necessarily heavy-handed to being with.

P was tender all around, I think. Inside and out. I bet his bottom was cushy like a poof from Pier 1.

It does have neurological componants in some diagnosed, but who knows for sure on a case to case basis?

I know one thing for sure...If there was any way to be a complicated being, P had the market cornered.

wink

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Reply #18 posted 05/08/17 4:24am

MD431Madcat

avatar

He didn't have to try as hard as others..

thin.. good bone structure.. naturally pretty/attractive..

***And he had MUCH more of what the young folks today call - SWAG! wink

PLUS ----> light skinned black dudes were very 'in' - in the 80's.

Prince/Al B Sure/Debarge ect..

Prince was winning on all fronts!!!. cool

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Reply #19 posted 05/08/17 8:42am

TrivialPursuit

mbdtyler said:

I'm not an expert on makeup or anything, but honestly, Prince was just a very pretty dude. Must've had some damn good genes.


Both his parents were lighter skinned, and pretty people in their own right. That butterscotch paid off, and he knew how to work it.

In general to the post, I don't think all of his associates were trying to be androgynous or even promote that look. Men wearing some guy-liner isn't a default androgynous look. Andre, Jesse, Bobby Z, Miko Weaver - these were not "I'm in touch with my girl side" kinda dudes. I mean, how anyone can lump Bobby Z or Jesse Johnson in with that is not even a stretch. It's fake news at its best. So did they pull it off? Of course, not because they weren't even trying to. A lot of those guys dressed a certain way because of Prince's direction while they worked for him. They held that look for a while after their initial departure from Prince's camp but definitely had their own thing.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
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Reply #20 posted 05/08/17 10:34am

kingricefan

Beneath all of the lace and eye liner was Prince's sexiest trait- confidence! He knew he was the best at everything and that's where that intensely magnetic look came from. 'I am the best, better than the rest......' Both men and women respond to confidence.

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Reply #21 posted 05/08/17 11:50am

rogifan

He's the only guy I'll tolerate wearing makeup. lol

Gotta say though I hate when people project and that happened a lot after he passed. I remember MSNBC did a whole segment on the political statement he made with his afro. But according to Kim Berry Prince said he was sick of having to have his hair done all the time and wanted to go natural. Not everything he did was to make some grand statement.
Paisley Park is in your heart
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Reply #22 posted 05/08/17 12:26pm

Genesia

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rdhull said:

Because he was slight of build with delicate features.


You beat me to it.

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
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Reply #23 posted 05/08/17 12:26pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

rogifan said:

He's the only guy I'll tolerate wearing makeup. lol Gotta say though I hate when people project and that happened a lot after he passed. I remember MSNBC did a whole segment on the political statement he made with his afro. But according to Kim Berry Prince said he was sick of having to have his hair done all the time and wanted to go natural. Not everything he did was to make some grand statement.

Right!!! I was trying to get some people to see that not to long ago.

Sometimes it is just what it is.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #24 posted 05/08/17 12:31pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

purplerabbithole said:

I know Prince wasn't the first, nor the last dude, to wear makeup and effeminate clothes in the world of rock and funk, but boy, he pulled it off better than anyone other than Bowie.

I see pix of Mark Brown, Micki Free, Jesse Johnson, BObby Z, Miko Weaver, even Andre Cymone...all decent to good looking men and yet none of them (IMO) pulled off the look as well as Prince. I wonder why that is the case? Andre came close in some ways.

IF you agree that P pulled it off best, do you think it was because he was doing it a bit earlier, changing his look more frequently, seemed to be more ironic/punkish about it, had a combination of swagger/vulnerability that made it work for him, or was just prettier than most of the other fellas. I think it was probably all of the above. I think most of the other dudes looked silly and derivative when they attempted it.

Bowie pulled off androgyny well also, probably because Bowie had a flair for the dramatic and had a deep speaking and singing voice. Damn, Prince had those characteristics as well (except he usually didn't sing in a deep voice and his sense of dramatics was better on stage than on film..)

[Edited 5/7/17 20:54pm]

I don't think any of them tried to pull that look off

Mark Brown Bobby Z and Andre weren't trying to do that like Prince.

Micki Free copied Prince, Jesse Johnson -that was a part of who he was too, and then being in the purple camp he was free to be, I don't think he wanted to go as far as Prince did though.

I don't think any of the people you mentioned were trying to be androgynous.

Morris Day (What Time is It?) album was made to look like Prince(like his funny side) Sheila E St Paul Sir Casey Terry Wendy Cat were all made to reflect Prince too

and Vanity was the reflection

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #25 posted 05/08/17 12:34pm

rdhull

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:



rogifan said:


He's the only guy I'll tolerate wearing makeup. lol Gotta say though I hate when people project and that happened a lot after he passed. I remember MSNBC did a whole segment on the political statement he made with his afro. But according to Kim Berry Prince said he was sick of having to have his hair done all the time and wanted to go natural. Not everything he did was to make some grand statement.


Right!!! I was trying to get some people to see that not to long ago.


Sometimes it is just what it is.



You mean it wasn't his way of saying he is dying and wanted to go back to the beginning to say goodbye???
And everytime I scratch my nails down someone else's back I hope you feel it.. WELL CAN YA FEEL IT?!
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Reply #26 posted 05/08/17 12:36pm

Genesia

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rdhull said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Right!!! I was trying to get some people to see that not to long ago.

Sometimes it is just what it is.

You mean it wasn't his way of saying he is dying and wanted to go back to the beginning to say goodbye???


lol

More like, "Damn - I am pushing 60 and tired of getting my shit done everyday."

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
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Reply #27 posted 05/08/17 12:47pm

rdhull

avatar

Genesia said:

rdhull said:

OldFriends4Sale said: You mean it wasn't his way of saying he is dying and wanted to go back to the beginning to say goodbye???


lol

More like, "Damn - I am pushing 60 and tired of getting my shit done everyday."

Lawd knows 35 years of conking your hair, a brutha needs that afro comb revival

And everytime I scratch my nails down someone else's back I hope you feel it.. WELL CAN YA FEEL IT?!
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Reply #28 posted 05/08/17 12:53pm

Genesia

avatar

rdhull said:

Genesia said:


lol

More like, "Damn - I am pushing 60 and tired of getting my shit done everyday."

Lawd knows 35 years of conking your hair, a brutha needs that afro comb revival


Hell, I'm a white girl and I just got my hair cut in such a way that I don't have to do a damn thing with it if I don't want to. The play I just did required a lot of intense hair abuse, so I figured I'd give myself - and my hair - the summer off. lol

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
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Reply #29 posted 05/08/17 12:56pm

rdhull

avatar

Genesia said:

rdhull said:

Lawd knows 35 years of conking your hair, a brutha needs that afro comb revival


Hell, I'm a white girl and I just got my hair cut in such a way that I don't have to do a damn thing with it if I don't want to. The play I just did required a lot of intense hair abuse, so I figured I'd give myself - and my hair - the summer off. lol

lol

And everytime I scratch my nails down someone else's back I hope you feel it.. WELL CAN YA FEEL IT?!
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