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Thread started 03/02/17 8:38am

PURPLEIZED3121

When Doves Cry guitar intro..did anyone ever see P play the intro live?

Thought just popped into my head after reading the article below from ZZ Tops Billy Gibbons.

Did anyone ever see him play this live...i've seen him c35+ times minimum since '88 & have never seen him do it.. i assume those lucky to attend the P.Rain tour might have? If you did was it Wendy or prince that did it..whoever did it..was it nailed!

Any info on how he created it would be great too! BVH before you type 'google it...'.. I ain't got time!

https://www.washingtonpos...de82b0f2e7

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Reply #1 posted 03/02/17 8:51am

RodeoSchro

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I don't think he played it on the "Purple Rain" tour. I'm not sure Wendy played it, either. Someone here will know.

When I was learning how to play it, I checked various lessons on YouTube. There was more than one pro who thought it was an incredible riff that Prince may have pulled out of thin air at the exact moment he needed it.

Not saying that he couldn't play it again, but that it wasn't anything he constructed or maybe even thought about. He just did it.

That could explain why he didn't play it much, or ever, in concert. Anyway, it's as good a theory as any!

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
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Reply #2 posted 03/02/17 9:00am

purplethunder3
121

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‘Defying description': ZZ Top’s Billy Gibbons on Prince the ‘sensational’ guitarist

By Geoff Edgers April 22, 2016
gibbonsprince-1024x576.jpg&w=1484
(Ethan Miller, Getty Images; AP photo, Wilfredo Lee)

Prince’s guitar-slinging skills were no secret. Whether at the Super Bowl, stealing a Rock Hall all-star jam or on his records, he could play it all. But to hear ZZ Top’s legendary frontman Billy Gibbons tell it, Prince wasn’t just a great guitar player. He was downright otherworldly. Gibbons spoke to The Post Friday about the guitar player who could stump even him.

Find strength in that which remains...
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Reply #3 posted 03/02/17 9:42am

imprimis

.

The intro was played (somewhat choppily) by Wendy on at least a few Purple Rain Tour dates, and on a number of the rehearsals circulating. P spent much time dancing, and plays no instruments.

.

No such intro was used for the H&R'86/Parade-era performances.

.

I have my own theory that the 'intro' is a tagged-on (with brilliant effect) recycled outtake to the solo later in the song.

.

[Edited 3/2/17 9:58am]

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Reply #4 posted 03/02/17 11:45am

thebanishedone

Your theory is wrong.Prince played that guitar intro the way he plays everything but i think he forgot what he played and thats why he never done it live.he did use flanger on it thought.and on youtub you have one guy who nailed it and he can teach you with his lesson how to play it
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Reply #5 posted 03/02/17 1:04pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

The only times I enjoyed the song live were 1st on the Parade tour, killer rendition 2nd the Purple Rain tour(just a bit faster) but very electric

I believe like 'Imprimis' said, Wendy did the intro sometimes

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #6 posted 03/02/17 1:11pm

ForceofNature

imprimis said:

.

The intro was played (somewhat choppily) by Wendy on at least a few Purple Rain Tour dates, and on a number of the rehearsals circulating. P spent much time dancing, and plays no instruments.

.

No such intro was used for the H&R'86/Parade-era performances.

.

I have my own theory that the 'intro' is a tagged-on (with brilliant effect) recycled outtake to the solo later in the song.

.

[Edited 3/2/17 9:58am]

I believe the guitar solo is in the key of B while the song itself is in A minor, it is possible that he sped up the solo or something if it is an outake but I genuinle think that it was just composed or somewhat thought out to be an intro to the song. But who's to say, P's mind works in fascinating ways haha

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Reply #7 posted 03/02/17 3:00pm

PeteSilas

someone already showed the zztop interview, which was a great one. Prince probably did it with studio tricks, that's how he did the lets go crazy solo, i never heard him play it like the record live, never.

the other reason you may not have heard it is because WDC was never a staple of his liveset, post 85. The song is a studio song and he said himself it doesn't really work live. I tried playing it live a few times and never got a more puzzled reaction out of an audience, I played it on piano when I worked in a piano bar, the owner told me to never play it again. Great song but the kind of song that's so introspective that it makes the listener introspective too, not good for rock music.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #8 posted 03/02/17 3:31pm

Farfunknugin

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I always thought this was his studio wizadry involving his guitar, I don't think a note for note interpretation.

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Reply #9 posted 03/02/17 3:37pm

kingricefan

Even Slash from Guns & Roses couldn't figure out how Prince played that particular riff. I read in an interview that he spent a fair amount of time trying to duplicate it and just can't do it.

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Reply #10 posted 03/02/17 3:51pm

SquirrelMeat

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OldFriends4Sale said:

The only times I enjoyed the song live were 1st on the Parade tour, killer rendition 2nd the Purple Rain tour(just a bit faster) but very electric

I believe like 'Imprimis' said, Wendy did the intro sometimes



I agree. I think WDC never came across very well live, except for the Parade tour version.

.
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Reply #11 posted 03/02/17 3:54pm

PeteSilas

ya, but.... the bass line he had on the purple rain tour was superfonkay, i loved that bass line, check it out if you want a treat. they say he took the studio bassline out as he recorded it, i always wondered if the bassline he used live and the one he took out were the same.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #12 posted 03/02/17 4:23pm

chrisandronna

The weird effect used on the intro to WDC is an octave pedal set to one octave low in front of a distortion pedal. It is very hard to nail the lick as it is with any of prince's playing, but it can be done. Personally, I can get reasonably close to the first part of the lick, but just cant get the second part after the drums come in and he's singing "yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah..." over it. It's one thing to know what notes another person is playing, and another to be able to nail their style and phrasing.

*And no, I've never seen him play that riff in 30 plus years of concerts

[Edited 3/2/17 16:24pm]

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Reply #13 posted 03/02/17 4:59pm

bsprout

This is an interesting question, OP. I saw him play WDC live on the Purple Rain tour but can't remember if he played that incredible guitar intro. I've watched many, many concerts since and haven't heard it. I would love to see it if it exists!
On another note, the ZZ Top interview is great.
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Reply #14 posted 03/02/17 6:16pm

rogifan

PeteSilas said:

someone already showed the zztop interview, which was a great one. Prince probably did it with studio tricks, that's how he did the lets go crazy solo, i never heard him play it like the record live, never.



the other reason you may not have heard it is because WDC was never a staple of his liveset, post 85. The song is a studio song and he said himself it doesn't really work live. I tried playing it live a few times and never got a more puzzled reaction out of an audience, I played it on piano when I worked in a piano bar, the owner told me to never play it again. Great song but the kind of song that's so introspective that it makes the listener introspective too, not good for rock music.


None of his live versions of LGC come close to the the album version. Kind of why I like the 3EG version as it's something different.
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #15 posted 03/02/17 7:20pm

Iamtheorg

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There was a youtube someone posted a few years ago here showing someone doing it and the process.

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Reply #16 posted 03/02/17 7:37pm

TrcikyChristop
her

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Thought just popped into my head after reading the article below from ZZ Tops Billy Gibbons.

Did anyone ever see him play this live...i've seen him c35+ times minimum since '88 & have never seen him do it.. i assume those lucky to attend the P.Rain tour might have? If you did was it Wendy or prince that did it..whoever did it..was it nailed!

Any info on how he created it would be great too! BVH before you type 'google it...'.. I ain't got time!

https://www.washingtonpos...de82b0f2e7

Susan Rogers confirmed during an interview (I forget which one) that he used the varispeed method that he used to create the Camille voice (in the same way he played the guitar and bass on "Erotic City" but not as dramatic effect. So, theoretically, the into solo was played at a slower speed and then sped up during mixing.

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Reply #17 posted 03/02/17 8:03pm

PeteSilas

rogifan said:

PeteSilas said:

someone already showed the zztop interview, which was a great one. Prince probably did it with studio tricks, that's how he did the lets go crazy solo, i never heard him play it like the record live, never.

the other reason you may not have heard it is because WDC was never a staple of his liveset, post 85. The song is a studio song and he said himself it doesn't really work live. I tried playing it live a few times and never got a more puzzled reaction out of an audience, I played it on piano when I worked in a piano bar, the owner told me to never play it again. Great song but the kind of song that's so introspective that it makes the listener introspective too, not good for rock music.

None of his live versions of LGC come close to the the album version. Kind of why I like the 3EG version as it's something different.

it's also ironic that he revamped it slower, older and the song a lot of people see as prophetic. Kind of the same thing as a reviewer mentioning that "pledge my love" a late elvis song had had a bad mojo about it for it's singers ever since the first version, i think the original artist died during a game or russian roullete or something. The live versions are great but he must have had ghis reasons for not doing it exactly as he did on the album, as a musician, i only slow things up or change them when I know things are beyond my technical ability. or would be so messy as to be embarrassing and too noticeable to the audience.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #18 posted 03/03/17 5:23am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

rogifan said:

PeteSilas said:

someone already showed the zztop interview, which was a great one. Prince probably did it with studio tricks, that's how he did the lets go crazy solo, i never heard him play it like the record live, never.

the other reason you may not have heard it is because WDC was never a staple of his liveset, post 85. The song is a studio song and he said himself it doesn't really work live. I tried playing it live a few times and never got a more puzzled reaction out of an audience, I played it on piano when I worked in a piano bar, the owner told me to never play it again. Great song but the kind of song that's so introspective that it makes the listener introspective too, not good for rock music.

None of his live versions of LGC come close to the the album version. Kind of why I like the 3EG version as it's something different.

No, but the Parade tour version is very close and very wonderful

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #19 posted 03/03/17 7:23am

PURPLEIZED3121

cheers, some great replies. Oft wondered if it was down to stuio trickery as per the cut & slice of the LRC classic solo [being comprised of 3 seperate parts] impressed though that some on youtube have actually nailed it.

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Reply #20 posted 03/03/17 7:23am

PURPLEIZED3121

TrcikyChristopher said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Thought just popped into my head after reading the article below from ZZ Tops Billy Gibbons.

Did anyone ever see him play this live...i've seen him c35+ times minimum since '88 & have never seen him do it.. i assume those lucky to attend the P.Rain tour might have? If you did was it Wendy or prince that did it..whoever did it..was it nailed!

Any info on how he created it would be great too! BVH before you type 'google it...'.. I ain't got time!

https://www.washingtonpos...de82b0f2e7

Susan Rogers confirmed during an interview (I forget which one) that he used the varispeed method that he used to create the Camille voice (in the same way he played the guitar and bass on "Erotic City" but not as dramatic effect. So, theoretically, the into solo was played at a slower speed and then sped up during mixing.

ahah..we have a winner!

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Reply #21 posted 03/03/17 11:14am

thx185

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Very interesting thread. Even though it is possible / likely that varispeed was used for the original recording, you can hear this guy on youtube get very very close using realtime playing:

.

https://www.youtube.com/w...joerlRdc50

.

He does it many times slow & at actual speed, and quite a few of his actual speed takes get it very, very close to what is on the record.

[Edited 3/3/17 11:14am]

"..free to change your mind"
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Reply #22 posted 03/03/17 2:44pm

E319

thx185 said:

Very interesting thread. Even though it is possible / likely that varispeed was used for the original recording, you can hear this guy on youtube get very very close using realtime playing:

.

https://www.youtube.com/w...joerlRdc50

.

He does it many times slow & at actual speed, and quite a few of his actual speed takes get it very, very close to what is on the record.

[Edited 3/3/17 11:14am]

Wow, excellent post thx185!!!! That guy does seem to play it as accurate as I've ever heard it played live! Thanks for sharing that video!

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Reply #23 posted 03/03/17 3:42pm

thebanishedone

first of all there is no studio trickery on When Doves Cry intro,it was played and there are people who can play it.

second Lets Go Crazy solo was recorded live

third its complete bulshit that When Doves Cry is not sounding great live and that it leaves audiance cold.

Prince killed it on 1990 Nude tour version of the song nd Purple Rain version.

maybe club owner told you to stop playing because your version was crap or something like that.

In the right hands WDC cn sound great live.

When one of Princes band members sked why they dont play Lady Cab Driver live Prince said that it dont translate good in a live setting and when the band member said about seeing a cover band killing it Prince shrugged his shoulders

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Reply #24 posted 03/03/17 3:55pm

PeteSilas

thebanishedone said:

first of all there is no studio trickery on When Doves Cry intro,it was played and there are people who can play it.

second Lets Go Crazy solo was recorded live

third its complete bulshit that When Doves Cry is not sounding great live and that it leaves audiance cold.

Prince killed it on 1990 Nude tour version of the song nd Purple Rain version.

maybe club owner told you to stop playing because your version was crap or something like that.

In the right hands WDC cn sound great live.

When one of Princes band members sked why they dont play Lady Cab Driver live Prince said that it dont translate good in a live setting and when the band member said about seeing a cover band killing it Prince shrugged his shoulders

sorry, you're wrong, check out some books/interviews on the subject. Prince said in his own words WDC doesn't work live because there is too much space. And it's not even that it doesn't work, it does, it just doesn't fit. People are celebratory and you throw a song like that into the mix it fucks things up.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #25 posted 03/03/17 4:00pm

ForceofNature

thebanishedone said:

first of all there is no studio trickery on When Doves Cry intro,it was played and there are people who can play it.

I believe this to be the truth here, When Doves Cry isn't really a super complex thing to play, technique wise it is a tad sloppy - but it is a good sloppy.

Its one of those things I go through as a guitar player, you let all of these crazy ideas for solos out when you are improvising however going back and trying to recreate the solo you mindlessly did exactly the same way is a real challenge.

When Doves Cry doesn't sound like a technically hard thing to do - I can play it and it sounds pretty much like the record. I truly think there is no varispeed trickery here, it is just Prince in the zone

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Reply #26 posted 03/03/17 9:22pm

thebanishedone

PeteSilas said:

thebanishedone said:

first of all there is no studio trickery on When Doves Cry intro,it was played and there are people who can play it.

second Lets Go Crazy solo was recorded live

third its complete bulshit that When Doves Cry is not sounding great live and that it leaves audiance cold.

Prince killed it on 1990 Nude tour version of the song nd Purple Rain version.

maybe club owner told you to stop playing because your version was crap or something like that.

In the right hands WDC cn sound great live.

When one of Princes band members sked why they dont play Lady Cab Driver live Prince said that it dont translate good in a live setting and when the band member said about seeing a cover band killing it Prince shrugged his shoulders

sorry, you're wrong, check out some books/interviews on the subject. Prince said in his own words WDC doesn't work live because there is too much space. And it's not even that it doesn't work, it does, it just doesn't fit. People are celebratory and you throw a song like that into the mix it fucks things up.

Oh Prince said that.than im sorry i am wrong razz.

Prince also said that if Brown Mark was out of his band he would stop using bass in his music.

Prince said on Los Angeles One Night Alone concert 2002 that he would

never play Little Red Corvette again and that he will throw drum machine in a garbige.

Prince have said in 2004 that it was the last time he will play greatest hits

in a Jay Leno show.

Do you have your opinion and ears or is it allabvout what Prince said?

Did you hear Nude tour version of When Doves Cry? to my ears it sounds

killer good ,but to you doesnt work because Prince said so???

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Reply #27 posted 03/03/17 9:23pm

thebanishedone

ForceofNature said:

thebanishedone said:

first of all there is no studio trickery on When Doves Cry intro,it was played and there are people who can play it.

I believe this to be the truth here, When Doves Cry isn't really a super complex thing to play, technique wise it is a tad sloppy - but it is a good sloppy.

Its one of those things I go through as a guitar player, you let all of these crazy ideas for solos out when you are improvising however going back and trying to recreate the solo you mindlessly did exactly the same way is a real challenge.

When Doves Cry doesn't sound like a technically hard thing to do - I can play it and it sounds pretty much like the record. I truly think there is no varispeed trickery here, it is just Prince in the zone

Finnaly somebody who have his own point of view smile

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Reply #28 posted 03/04/17 3:30am

BartVanHemelen

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PeteSilas said:

the other reason you may not have heard it is because WDC was never a staple of his liveset, post 85.

.

Except for the Parade Tour. And the SOTT Tour. And the Lovesexy Tour.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #29 posted 03/04/17 7:43am

Iamtheorg

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BartVanHemelen said:

PeteSilas said:

the other reason you may not have heard it is because WDC was never a staple of his liveset, post 85.

.

Except for the Parade Tour. And the SOTT Tour. And the Lovesexy Tour.

lol

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