injuredpinky said:

jaawwnn said:

Just to disagree with some of this thread because why not,

1. In a large room with no light is a great track, top tier.
2. Susan Rogers was right about Adonis & Bathsheba except where she thought the absolute over the topness of it all was in any way a bad thing; it's a brilliant track because of that.
3. Purple Rain is great cinema. Sure it has piles of bad acting, but it's still great cinema.

carry on.

[Edited 2/15/17 12:37pm]

.

This thread is about Wally. How do your three points disagree with Wally? You mean carry on with how this thread is supposed to be about Wally? Yeah it would be nice to carry on about Wally.

There's really not much more to say with regard to Wally, at least until we can hear the full version.

TheEnglishGent said:

There's really not much more to say with regard to Wally, at least until we can hear the full version.

I take it the full version still hasn't popped up anywhere? I sure haven't heard it but I'm low on the food chain, lol

So 'Wally' is just derived from 'Billy's Sunglasses'? Is that it? Built up and built up, Not a mythological Prince song at all. What a fucking surprise! Nice one Susan.

Marrk said:

So 'Wally' is just derived from 'Billy's Sunglasses'? Is that it? Built up and built up, Not a mythological Prince song at all. What a fucking surprise! Nice one Susan.

Well we have known for years that the sunglasses bit was in there so it really isn't a suprise - just the specific way that specific part originated from Billy's Sunglasses was something not all may have known. And judging by her description of the song it is just the very beggining of a story, and by all accounts so far the descriptions have been accurate

And plus if Wally is let's say 3 minutes long we have only technically heard 8% of it in a mere 16 second clip - if 8 percent of the song's lyrics are taken from Billy, what is so bad about that?

ForceofNature said:

Marrk said:

So 'Wally' is just derived from 'Billy's Sunglasses'? Is that it? Built up and built up, Not a mythological Prince song at all. What a fucking surprise! Nice one Susan.

Well we have known for years that the sunglasses bit was in there so it really isn't a suprise - just the specific way that specific part originated from Billy's Sunglasses was something not all may have known. And judging by her description of the song it is just the very beggining of a story, and by all accounts so far the descriptions have been accurate

And plus if Wally is let's say 3 minutes long we have only technically heard 8% of it in a mere 16 second clip - if 8 percent of the song's lyrics are taken from Billy, what is so bad about that?

No, we can’t really make any valid judgements from a 16 second clip. I’ve heard numerous snippets that I wasn’t keen on in the past, only to be won over by the full tracks. I was slightly surprised by the apparent tone, but again, it’s just a tiny segment. Even if it doesn’t live up to expectations, remember that Susan was talking about the original track in its earliest stages. Anyone who makes music knows that it quite possible to completely transform an underlying track in a single sitting, so if this is a later reworking, it’s likely to be very different from the raw, uncensored performance that Susan has been talking about. Also, we need to allow for people’s varying tastes, and Susan has as much right to that as anybody else.

injuredpinky said:

IMHO it would be awesome if Susan listened to this and told us what it is (the original via cassette, or a re-recording)! Don't think that will happen but I can dream, lol

CandaceS said:

IMHO it would be awesome if Susan listened to this and told us what it is (the original via cassette, or a re-recording)! Don't think that will happen but I can dream, lol

it's the rerecorderd version. prince didn't play horns. this version clearly has horns on it,
which the rerecord is known to have, by way of atlanta and eric.

IstenSzek said:

CandaceS said:

IMHO it would be awesome if Susan listened to this and told us what it is (the original via cassette, or a re-recording)! Don't think that will happen but I can dream, lol

it's the rerecorderd version. prince didn't play horns. this version clearly has horns on it,
which the rerecord is known to have, by way of atlanta and eric.

Yes, but maybe SR could say how much difference there is between the original version and this one?

paulludvig said:

IstenSzek said:

it's the rerecorderd version. prince didn't play horns. this version clearly has horns on it,
which the rerecord is known to have, by way of atlanta and eric.

Yes, but maybe SR could say how much difference there is between the original version and this one?

i doubt she would still remember. if the rerecorded version is basically the same track,
just with some different lyrics here and there, how would she remember 30 years later,
especially since she only heard the original just one or two times?

IstenSzek said:

paulludvig said:

Yes, but maybe SR could say how much difference there is between the original version and this one?

i doubt she would still remember. if the rerecorded version is basically the same track,
just with some different lyrics here and there, how would she remember 30 years later,
especially since she only heard the original just one or two times?

True. But it seems some people think the rerecorded version is vastly different from the first version (maybe to reconcile what they hear with SR's description)

Marrk said:

So 'Wally' is just derived from 'Billy's Sunglasses'? Is that it? Built up and built up, Not a mythological Prince song at all. What a fucking surprise! Nice one Susan.

Chapter 9 Alone:Wally
The Rise & Fall of Prince

(Just a bit of Prince history)
The dispute over Crystal Ball left Prince frustrated & depressed.
And to make matters worse, his relationship with Susannah Melvoin was spinning out of control for the last time.
In the months since the couple had concluded their brief attempt at cohabitation in Prince's Chanhassan home, their fighting had continued taking an emotional toll on the both of them. In December 1986, Susannah finally decided she had had enough; she packed her things and returned to Los Angeles San Fernando Valley, joining Lisa & Wendy
"You can only subject yourself to so much, unless your self abusive, and she had a lot of respect for herself," observered Karen Krattinger. "He probably would have kept her on a yo yo forever."

One evening shortly after Sussanah's departure, Susan Rogers could tell something was very wrong when Prince came down to the basement studio. Looking disconsolate and barely speaking, he began constructing a song around a meloncholy piano pattern. His spoken lyrics portrayed a fictional dialogue between himself and Wally Safford, a dancer in the band. Sounding sad and lost, Prince asks Wally to borrow $50 and some sunglasses so he can impress his lover, but then changes his mind and returns the items telling Wally that since he is alone now, he has no one to spend the money on. Prince was accompanied only by piano throught the verse, but guitar bass and drums enter as the song built to a chorus on which he sings the phrase "o-ma-la-di-da"


Watching Prince construct the song which he called "Wally", Rogers was stunned by the honest emotion and wistfull resignation it conveyed. She saw the song both as a farewell to Susannah and a means of expelling the poison of failed relationship.

"Do you know that malady means sickness, illness in French?" Prince asked Rogers. Refering to the phrase he sings in the chorus. "It's almost like the word melody, isn't it?" Prince who rarely exposed his inner feelings, even in his music, was groping for a metaphor that would convey his feeling of loss. Rogers felt it was a turning point in his songwriting.

But as the session continued, Prince started to distance himself from the creation. He added extraneous instruments to diminished the songs clarity. A percussion part that cluttered the verse, detracting from the lyrics.

Don't you think it was better before, Prince?" Rogers said. "Maybe we should stop"
He ignored her, adding the synthizer riff. Soon it became clear to her: He was intentionally destroying the song. After larding the piece with additional instruments, he finally spoke. "Now put all 24 Channels on record and erase it." he told Rogers

No, you can't do this!" Rogers said dismayed by the prospect of losing the statement at the core of the song.

If you don't I will," Prince responded
Rogers stood her ground, and Prince was forced to operate the soundboard himself, as he destroyed his own music.

"Wally" like his relationship with Susannah, Wendy & Lisa involved more emotional intensity than Prince was willing to accept. "I thought it was the greatest thing he had ever done" says Rogers. I had waited years to hear a Prince song like this. I ached for him to be this honest.

Yet Princes refusal to explore his feelings was not altogether surprising. Rogers had discussed the topic of depression with him and found Prince contemptuous of the notion.
"He thought it was practically a sin to be depressed" she remembered. Many other associates have observed that Prince -not only in his relationships, but even in his music -is cryptic and unrevealing of his deepest feelings. "His music is very passionate, but he doesn't let himself open up emotionally" observed Marylou Badeaux. "And look at the way he's dealt with women in his life- he's not able to get emotional. He just keeps it on the level of sex play."

OldFriends4Sale said:

Marrk said:

So 'Wally' is just derived from 'Billy's Sunglasses'? Is that it? Built up and built up, Not a mythological Prince song at all. What a fucking surprise! Nice one Susan.

Chapter 9 Alone:Wally
The Rise & Fall of Prince

(Just a bit of Prince history)
The dispute over Crystal Ball left Prince frustrated & depressed.
And to make matters worse, his relationship with Susannah Melvoin was spinning out of control for the last time.
In the months since the couple had concluded their brief attempt at cohabitation in Prince's Chanhassan home, their fighting had continued taking an emotional toll on the both of them. In December 1986, Susannah finally decided she had had enough; she packed her things and returned to Los Angeles San Fernando Valley, joining Lisa & Wendy
"You can only subject yourself to so much, unless your self abusive, and she had a lot of respect for herself," observered Karen Krattinger. "He probably would have kept her on a yo yo forever."

One evening shortly after Sussanah's departure, Susan Rogers could tell something was very wrong when Prince came down to the basement studio. Looking disconsolate and barely speaking, he began constructing a song around a meloncholy piano pattern. His spoken lyrics portrayed a fictional dialogue between himself and Wally Safford, a dancer in the band. Sounding sad and lost, Prince asks Wally to borrow $50 and some sunglasses so he can impress his lover, but then changes his mind and returns the items telling Wally that since he is alone now, he has no one to spend the money on. Prince was accompanied only by piano throught the verse, but guitar bass and drums enter as the song built to a chorus on which he sings the phrase "o-ma-la-di-da"


Watching Prince construct the song which he called "Wally", Rogers was stunned by the honest emotion and wistfull resignation it conveyed. She saw the song both as a farewell to Susannah and a means of expelling the poison of failed relationship.

"Do you know that malady means sickness, illness in French?" Prince asked Rogers. Refering to the phrase he sings in the chorus. "It's almost like the word melody, isn't it?" Prince who rarely exposed his inner feelings, even in his music, was groping for a metaphor that would convey his feeling of loss. Rogers felt it was a turning point in his songwriting.

But as the session continued, Prince started to distance himself from the creation. He added extraneous instruments to diminished the songs clarity. A percussion part that cluttered the verse, detracting from the lyrics.

Don't you think it was better before, Prince?" Rogers said. "Maybe we should stop"
He ignored her, adding the synthizer riff. Soon it became clear to her: He was intentionally destroying the song. After larding the piece with additional instruments, he finally spoke. "Now put all 24 Channels on record and erase it." he told Rogers

No, you can't do this!" Rogers said dismayed by the prospect of losing the statement at the core of the song.

If you don't I will," Prince responded
Rogers stood her ground, and Prince was forced to operate the soundboard himself, as he destroyed his own music.

"Wally" like his relationship with Susannah, Wendy & Lisa involved more emotional intensity than Prince was willing to accept. "I thought it was the greatest thing he had ever done" says Rogers. I had waited years to hear a Prince song like this. I ached for him to be this honest.

Yet Princes refusal to explore his feelings was not altogether surprising. Rogers had discussed the topic of depression with him and found Prince contemptuous of the notion.
"He thought it was practically a sin to be depressed" she remembered. Many other associates have observed that Prince -not only in his relationships, but even in his music -is cryptic and unrevealing of his deepest feelings. "His music is very passionate, but he doesn't let himself open up emotionally" observed Marylou Badeaux. "And look at the way he's dealt with women in his life- he's not able to get emotional. He just keeps it on the level of sex play."

And there you have the basis for the myth. SR's interpretation of the events surrounding the recording.

"His spoken lyrics portrayed a fictional dialogue between himself and Wally Safford"

.

So if we take SR's quote literally, in version #1 Prince spoke the verses. Clearly he was singing in the snippet of version #2. That would have certainly contributed to the overall mood of the song, which is probably partly why she considers version #2 inferior.

.

.

.

.

.

EDIT: English is my primary language, but you'd never know from my original drafts.

[Edited 2/16/17 15:47pm]

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Chapter 9 Alone:Wally
The Rise & Fall of Prince

(Just a bit of Prince history)
The dispute over Crystal Ball left Prince frustrated & depressed.
And to make matters worse, his relationship with Susannah Melvoin was spinning out of control for the last time.
In the months since the couple had concluded their brief attempt at cohabitation in Prince's Chanhassan home, their fighting had continued taking an emotional toll on the both of them. In December 1986, Susannah finally decided she had had enough; she packed her things and returned to Los Angeles San Fernando Valley, joining Lisa & Wendy
"You can only subject yourself to so much, unless your self abusive, and she had a lot of respect for herself," observered Karen Krattinger. "He probably would have kept her on a yo yo forever."

One evening shortly after Sussanah's departure, Susan Rogers could tell something was very wrong when Prince came down to the basement studio. Looking disconsolate and barely speaking, he began constructing a song around a meloncholy piano pattern. His spoken lyrics portrayed a fictional dialogue between himself and Wally Safford, a dancer in the band. Sounding sad and lost, Prince asks Wally to borrow $50 and some sunglasses so he can impress his lover, but then changes his mind and returns the items telling Wally that since he is alone now, he has no one to spend the money on. Prince was accompanied only by piano throught the verse, but guitar bass and drums enter as the song built to a chorus on which he sings the phrase "o-ma-la-di-da"


Watching Prince construct the song which he called "Wally", Rogers was stunned by the honest emotion and wistfull resignation it conveyed. She saw the song both as a farewell to Susannah and a means of expelling the poison of failed relationship.

"Do you know that malady means sickness, illness in French?" Prince asked Rogers. Refering to the phrase he sings in the chorus. "It's almost like the word melody, isn't it?" Prince who rarely exposed his inner feelings, even in his music, was groping for a metaphor that would convey his feeling of loss. Rogers felt it was a turning point in his songwriting.

But as the session continued, Prince started to distance himself from the creation. He added extraneous instruments to diminished the songs clarity. A percussion part that cluttered the verse, detracting from the lyrics.

Don't you think it was better before, Prince?" Rogers said. "Maybe we should stop"
He ignored her, adding the synthizer riff. Soon it became clear to her: He was intentionally destroying the song. After larding the piece with additional instruments, he finally spoke. "Now put all 24 Channels on record and erase it." he told Rogers

No, you can't do this!" Rogers said dismayed by the prospect of losing the statement at the core of the song.

If you don't I will," Prince responded
Rogers stood her ground, and Prince was forced to operate the soundboard himself, as he destroyed his own music.

"Wally" like his relationship with Susannah, Wendy & Lisa involved more emotional intensity than Prince was willing to accept. "I thought it was the greatest thing he had ever done" says Rogers. I had waited years to hear a Prince song like this. I ached for him to be this honest.

Yet Princes refusal to explore his feelings was not altogether surprising. Rogers had discussed the topic of depression with him and found Prince contemptuous of the notion.
"He thought it was practically a sin to be depressed" she remembered. Many other associates have observed that Prince -not only in his relationships, but even in his music -is cryptic and unrevealing of his deepest feelings. "His music is very passionate, but he doesn't let himself open up emotionally" observed Marylou Badeaux. "And look at the way he's dealt with women in his life- he's not able to get emotional. He just keeps it on the level of sex play."

And there you have the basis for the myth. SR's interpretation of the events surrounding the recording.

oh boy

so can U tell me what you heard when you were there? how does it differ from what Susan heard?

OldFriends4Sale said:

[snip - long quote from Hahn]

In short, Wally started as a piano melody. Then along with lyrics, he added some guitar, bass, and drums. Then some percussion, then a synth riff. Then "additional instruments."

What would those additional instruments be? Could they have been samples? Could that account for the horns? Or were they some other actual instruments?

If EYE RECORDS does indeed have Wally, and they are pressing a new bootleg CD for release, did they get anything else new from the leaker? No way they just press one song. Most likely they pad it with previous leaked songs.

Ingela said:

Having listened to the small bit, I would seriously doubt this was the "original" version. I don't remember Susan saying a horn player was present. It was just she and him. So that horn blare at the very end suggests this was a later re-cording. Or perhaps it was a sampled bit, or perhaps he was overdubbing the original at some point. But I would guess it's not the original version.

The horn part is from "We Can Funk" (recorded around 1982 for Dream Factory). He occasionally pulled horn parts from one song to another - or parts of them. I'd assume that's what he did here.

This is based on having heard the whole 7+-minute recording.

injuredpinky said:

LittleProfessor said:

Revolution81 said:

LittleProfessor said:

The horn part is from "We Can Funk" (recorded around 1982 for Dream Factory). He occasionally pulled horn parts from one song to another - or parts of them. I'd assume that's what he did here.

This is based on having heard the whole 7+-minute recording.

There's no need to assume, the facts are there on princevault: horn overdubs were done by Eric Leeds and Atlanta Bliss and were not pulled from we can funk, which also was never "recorded around 1982 for dream factory" If you're gonna be a bullshitter at least be good at it.

Anyway...what have we learnt from this 15 secs?
Billy sparks had the ugliest glasses
Lisa Coleman had the strangest glasses
Wally had the freakiest glasses
Prince could rock any glasses and still look cool

Man, you're fast.
It took me a good 50 minutes.

[Edited 2/17/17 17:03pm]

bonatoc said:

Revolution81 said:

bonatoc said:

Man, you're fast.
It took me a good 50 minutes.

[Edited 2/17/17 17:03pm]

Fuck that 50min version of Billy. It's looped

Mind your language, young man!

Please provide the timings of the loops and respective positions.
Not sure you heard the whole thing repeatedly as much as I did. Or if you have the same source I have.
If there are loops, I'd say there is a good 45 minutes of original jam.
Maybe you're mistakening Prince loopings for loops.

I don't understand what's wrong with taking a verse from a song and reuse it.
"Billy's sunglasses" verses hook is great, I can understand he wanted to place it somewhere.
He did that all the time. A fair deal of proto-ideas were developed later and ended up on official recordings.
Why would it matter for this specific song?
Just because it has this legendary aura doesn't mean it's not another song,
obeying to the same principles as the others.

LittleProfessor said:

Ingela said:

Having listened to the small bit, I would seriously doubt this was the "original" version. I don't remember Susan saying a horn player was present. It was just she and him. So that horn blare at the very end suggests this was a later re-cording. Or perhaps it was a sampled bit, or perhaps he was overdubbing the original at some point. But I would guess it's not the original version.

The horn part is from "We Can Funk" (recorded around 1982 for Dream Factory). He occasionally pulled horn parts from one song to another - or parts of them. I'd assume that's what he did here.

This is based on having heard the whole 7+-minute recording.

U mean We Can Fuck(recorded 1983)
2:20min - 2:50min into the song when it changes -the guitar piece/keyboard(horns) is where We Can Funks grove/melody comes from
We Can Funk (recorded 1986 4 Dream Factory)

TrevorAyer said:

Seems like wally might be on the pr deluxe ... wouldn't that be cool? SR def heard wally more than a couple times ... he overdubbed a shit ton then erased it ... thats a lot of pass throughs she was present for ... and the song sure stuck with her ... Considering previous statements that pr is th only deluxe album p agreed to with wb ... maybe he threw in wally as a nice treat for fans

should be included with the Black album

OldFriends4Sale said:

TrevorAyer said:

Seems like wally might be on the pr deluxe ... wouldn't that be cool? SR def heard wally more than a couple times ... he overdubbed a shit ton then erased it ... thats a lot of pass throughs she was present for ... and the song sure stuck with her ... Considering previous statements that pr is th only deluxe album p agreed to with wb ... maybe he threw in wally as a nice treat for fans

It was recorded in December 1986 - hardly the Purple Rain era.

TrevorAyer said: