lezama said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I hear what U R saying but you substituted Cautious with Fearful. And those are 2 very different things.

Ummm yeah there's a difference, but not a big one. The same root feeds both. You don't proceed with caution if there's nothing to fear in a given proceeding. But at any rate my point isnt changed by that adjective. However you define the term conservativism, you'll ALWAYS have a problem applying it to Prince. IMHO its better to not try fitting everyone into in boxes cuz many people just don't fit all that neatly unless they're the types that simply mime ideological perspectives from mass media and jump when their party or religious instituion or financial advisor says jump. Ive never gotten the impression he was in any way shape or form that type of person. He believed what he believed in, did what he wanted to do etc, if someone had a huge problem with it, it didn't seem to bother him much.

I would say Caution is very different from Fear.
I mean if I'm playing Chess, I'm cautious of making a move. That doesn't connect with Fear.

.

If it is Spring time, I might be cautious of what I wear or if I walk bike or drive because the weather could be rainy. That doesn't mean I'm Fearful or the weather.

.

It is true, to put a person neatly in a 1 box, usually never works. But there are people who define themselves in boxes.
.
When he decided to pull the Black album and the reasons he gave for doing so, i feel leant toward a conservative side. Some of the things he's said about homosexuality or sexual expression later in life leaned toward a conservative side.
The need to pull away from certain songs, to change Sexuality to Spirituality etc I think those things were influenced by the conservative leanings of his JW teachings.
In a 2010/11 interview when talking about the burqa's a Middle Easter-Muslim society, that was a very 'conservative' statement. the statement he made at the BET tribute apologetically telling them all 'you don't have to be like I was' etc

.

Being the person/entertainer he was, he totally wrestled with it, even talked about that wrestle in the song Cause & Effect.

Every celeb seems to have a 'Prince Story' now, enough of the Ping Pong and Basketball stories..

BeelZBubba said:

Or is Toure relying on Susan Rogers' version of events, when even Prince warned people not to listen to these disgruntled former employees?

He didn't sound very "Conservative" to me though Alex Jones and Mancow say he WAS a Truther. What do you think? Did Toure get this wrong too?

Toure really wishes he was Nelson George or Greg Tate lololol and possesses absolutely zero insight into anything Prince related.

Even though he thinks he does.

Prince could write many songs in a day that could conflict with what he said 5 minutes earlier. He fell on many spectrums regarding religion and was fond of conspiracies - but he could change his mind in an instant - its very Gemini of him.

He was conservative except when he didnt feel like it? It depends on his mood that day I'd guess ....

lezama said:

Jacytoon said:

You really don't want Toure to be the academic voice on all things Prince. He and his "cousin" have an agenda and will use P to push it.

I didn't want to be the one to say it but I'm happy to agree. He has one Prince story which he repeats ad nauseam.

OldFriends4Sale said:

lezama said:

Ummm yeah there's a difference, but not a big one. The same root feeds both. You don't proceed with caution if there's nothing to fear in a given proceeding. But at any rate my point isnt changed by that adjective. However you define the term conservativism, you'll ALWAYS have a problem applying it to Prince. IMHO its better to not try fitting everyone into in boxes cuz many people just don't fit all that neatly unless they're the types that simply mime ideological perspectives from mass media and jump when their party or religious instituion or financial advisor says jump. Ive never gotten the impression he was in any way shape or form that type of person. He believed what he believed in, did what he wanted to do etc, if someone had a huge problem with it, it didn't seem to bother him much.

I would say Caution is very different from Fear.
I mean if I'm playing Chess, I'm cautious of making a move. That doesn't connect with Fear.

.

If it is Spring time, I might be cautious of what I wear or if I walk bike or drive because the weather could be rainy. That doesn't mean I'm Fearful or the weather.

.

It is true, to put a person neatly in a 1 box, usually never works. But there are people who define themselves in boxes.
.
When he decided to pull the Black album and the reasons he gave for doing so, i feel leant toward a conservative side. Some of the things he's said about homosexuality or sexual expression later in life leaned toward a conservative side.
The need to pull away from certain songs, to change Sexuality to Spirituality etc I think those things were influenced by the conservative leanings of his JW teachings.
In a 2010/11 interview when talking about the burqa's a Middle Easter-Muslim society, that was a very 'conservative' statement. the statement he made at the BET tribute apologetically telling them all 'you don't have to be like I was' etc

.

Being the person/entertainer he was, he totally wrestled with it, even talked about that wrestle in the song Cause & Effect.

Not to beat a dead horse or anything but when I reduce Caution to fear it' wasnt arbitrary. In every breakdown on primary (or root) emotions I've ever seen, fear is the base component for the secondary lists (which would be the secondary types of emotion). You know what the secondary ones are by their reliance upon similar brain regions. If a brain region that controls fear response (amygdala) is also activated with exercizing caution (which is a much more prefrontal cortex type of activity but also activates the amygdala) you could say precisely that its a (more evolutionarily nuanced) secondary emotion that evolves from the less complex base emotion of fear. E.g.

So, not saying your examples are in any way wrong. I just think you may have misinterpreted why I don't see it as consequential.

.

Regarding the Black album... was that because of a conservative impulse in him or because he genuinely thought it was coming from a dark place and at that time he wanted something to express positvity?? I'm not sure. Nothing from his statements on that gives me that same impression

.

The homosexuality statements and the withdrawing from the overtly sexual expression to me can be considered conservative I guess, but I dont think a statement like "the bible says this.. thus" and a statement like "gays and perverts are destroying society, destroying children... think about the children!, society's going to shit! etc etc." are equal given the earlier definition you gave.

.

The burqa comments I'd say are genuinely conservative. He elaborates on the idea of order and authority and the lack of noise that you have in those societies. That's a genuine conservative argument for me. But its a social conservativism that has a strong affinity with the type of order he saw in the JW lifestyle. I don't think he'd agree with much of the politics of islamic nation-states and I don't think he'd agree with much of what "conservative" politicians say either, because as Ive inferred 3 times above, that terms means a gazillion different things.

paulludvig said:

I don't know if Prince was conservative. But generally I think a handful of people have more or less controlled the narrative when it comes to Prince. Susan Rogers is one of them.

Very true. And Toure is a bobble-head.

He was a huge capitalist, that's for sure. He also went crazy on copyright, which is welfare for the rich.

The JW's are conservative but Prince got away with a lot.

deleted i am not getting into politics

[Edited 5/17/16 12:56pm]

2freaky4church1 said:

The JW's are conservative but Prince got away with a lot.

He has stated several times, as recently as his appearance on The View that he was not into political partisanship.

"Whoever said that elephants were stronger than mules?"

Dude was beyond party politics and, from what I can see, only interested in things on a 1:1 level.

Splitting everyone up into "liberal" and "conservative" is a dumb thing to do and basically a vague, worthless task. Prince didn't hate gays and foreigners and he loved the environment and fairness in business, so he was definitely far away from many "conservatives" with their views.

It all depends on how one defines "conservatism". Frank Zappa described himself as being a "practical Conservative". I don't know any recording artist who'd ever opposed the Republican Party any more overtly than him. He was pro freedom of speech, pro freedom of thinking, pro freedom of choice. Prince certainly wasn't 'conservative' by definition as a lot of his being was often articulated in his lyrics: pro individualism = pro freedom. I mean, come on, a man in heals? How conservative is that?

It went from spiritual to religious for him when he became a JW. That meant DOGMA. He was a free thinker who turned to being in search for a guiding line. He found it in organized religion. Whether that was good for his art is in the eye of the beholder. But in his final years he sang the line from 'Controversy' again: Am I straight or gay. Now, you don't do that if you're actually being opposed freedom of choice, do you? Prince might have had a period of dogmatic thinking, but I sense that he'd overcome that in his final years. Might be wrong on this, though.

FunkiestOne said:

Splitting everyone up into "liberal" and "conservative" is a dumb thing to do and basically a vague, worthless task. Prince didn't hate gays and foreigners and he loved the environment and fairness in business, so he was definitely far away from many "conservatives" with their views.

You have a very bigoted view of conservatism.

lezama said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I would say Caution is very different from Fear.
I mean if I'm playing Chess, I'm cautious of making a move. That doesn't connect with Fear.

.

If it is Spring time, I might be cautious of what I wear or if I walk bike or drive because the weather could be rainy. That doesn't mean I'm Fearful or the weather.

.

It is true, to put a person neatly in a 1 box, usually never works. But there are people who define themselves in boxes.
.
When he decided to pull the Black album and the reasons he gave for doing so, i feel leant toward a conservative side. Some of the things he's said about homosexuality or sexual expression later in life leaned toward a conservative side.
The need to pull away from certain songs, to change Sexuality to Spirituality etc I think those things were influenced by the conservative leanings of his JW teachings.
In a 2010/11 interview when talking about the burqa's a Middle Easter-Muslim society, that was a very 'conservative' statement. the statement he made at the BET tribute apologetically telling them all 'you don't have to be like I was' etc

.

Being the person/entertainer he was, he totally wrestled with it, even talked about that wrestle in the song Cause & Effect.

.

Regarding the Black album... was that because of a conservative impulse in him or because he genuinely thought it was coming from a dark place and at that time he wanted something to express positvity?? I'm not sure. Nothing from his statements on that gives me that same impression

.

The homosexuality statements and the withdrawing from the overtly sexual expression to me can be considered conservative I guess, but I dont think a statement like "the bible says this.. thus" and a statement like "gays and perverts are destroying society, destroying children... think about the children!, society's going to shit! etc etc." are equal given the earlier definition you gave.

.

The burqa comments I'd say are genuinely conservative. He elaborates on the idea of order and authority and the lack of noise that you have in those societies. That's a genuine conservative argument for me. But its a social conservativism that has a strong affinity with the type of order he saw in the JW lifestyle. I don't think he'd agree with much of the politics of islamic nation-states and I don't think he'd agree with much of what "conservative" politicians say either, because as Ive inferred 3 times above, that terms means a gazillion different things.

Concerning the Black album he later said he was concerned about kids coming along and hearing the album and that being a lasting remark from him etc. It was on the edge of censorship (yet he released it anyway in 1994 to get out of his contract)but never performed anything again))

Pop Life everybody can't be on top... that's conservative belief.

America, that's conservative.

Rainbow Children is going ancient conservative.

But Lovesexy is really not conservative, mixing religion and sexual energies. Letting musical style go completely carefree and chaotic.

Planet Earth the song seems to be ecologically progressive but religiously conservative.

The vibe of AOA seems progressive.

I think the terms can be used for nusic aeshetics too

Hit n Run phase 1 is more chaotic and carefree and contemporary (on a surface level), phase 2 is definitely conservative in music style. Of course "Baltimore" lyrically seems progressive, but musically it's calming and conservative.

lezama said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I would say Caution is very different from Fear.
I mean if I'm playing Chess, I'm cautious of making a move. That doesn't connect with Fear.

.

If it is Spring time, I might be cautious of what I wear or if I walk bike or drive because the weather could be rainy. That doesn't mean I'm Fearful or the weather.

.

It is true, to put a person neatly in a 1 box, usually never works. But there are people who define themselves in boxes.
.
When he decided to pull the Black album and the reasons he gave for doing so, i feel leant toward a conservative side. Some of the things he's said about homosexuality or sexual expression later in life leaned toward a conservative side.
The need to pull away from certain songs, to change Sexuality to Spirituality etc I think those things were influenced by the conservative leanings of his JW teachings.
In a 2010/11 interview when talking about the burqa's a Middle Easter-Muslim society, that was a very 'conservative' statement. the statement he made at the BET tribute apologetically telling them all 'you don't have to be like I was' etc

.

Being the person/entertainer he was, he totally wrestled with it, even talked about that wrestle in the song Cause & Effect.

Not to beat a dead horse or anything but when I reduce Caution to fear it' wasnt arbitrary. In every breakdown on primary (or root) emotions I've ever seen, fear is the base component for the secondary lists (which would be the secondary types of emotion). You know what the secondary ones are by their reliance upon similar brain regions. If a brain region that controls fear response (amygdala) is also activated with exercizing caution (which is a much more prefrontal cortex type of activity but also activates the amygdala) you could say precisely that its a (more evolutionarily nuanced) secondary emotion that evolves from the less complex base emotion of fear. E.g.

So, not saying your examples are in any way wrong. I just think you may have misinterpreted why I don't see it as consequential.

.

Regarding the Black album... was that because of a conservative impulse in him or because he genuinely thought it was coming from a dark place and at that time he wanted something to express positvity?? I'm not sure. Nothing from his statements on that gives me that same impression

.

The homosexuality statements and the withdrawing from the overtly sexual expression to me can be considered conservative I guess, but I dont think a statement like "the bible says this.. thus" and a statement like "gays and perverts are destroying society, destroying children... think about the children!, society's going to shit! etc etc." are equal given the earlier definition you gave.

.

The burqa comments I'd say are genuinely conservative. He elaborates on the idea of order and authority and the lack of noise that you have in those societies. That's a genuine conservative argument for me. But its a social conservativism that has a strong affinity with the type of order he saw in the JW lifestyle. I don't think he'd agree with much of the politics of islamic nation-states and I don't think he'd agree with much of what "conservative" politicians say either, because as Ive inferred 3 times above, that terms means a gazillion different things.

None of that is conservative. NONE of it. Islamist societies are repressive, and about domination and control. Those are all features of leftist political philosophies like communism, socialism, and fascism.

True classical political conservatism (I'm not talking about the corporatism or religion-based political action that are painted as modern conservatism by those who wouldn't know true conservatism if it bit them in the ass) is absolutely, 100% about individual freedom and rights, and about keeping government small enough that can do no harm.

OldFriends4Sale said:

lezama said:

.

Regarding the Black album... was that because of a conservative impulse in him or because he genuinely thought it was coming from a dark place and at that time he wanted something to express positvity?? I'm not sure. Nothing from his statements on that gives me that same impression

.

The homosexuality statements and the withdrawing from the overtly sexual expression to me can be considered conservative I guess, but I dont think a statement like "the bible says this.. thus" and a statement like "gays and perverts are destroying society, destroying children... think about the children!, society's going to shit! etc etc." are equal given the earlier definition you gave.

.

The burqa comments I'd say are genuinely conservative. He elaborates on the idea of order and authority and the lack of noise that you have in those societies. That's a genuine conservative argument for me. But its a social conservativism that has a strong affinity with the type of order he saw in the JW lifestyle. I don't think he'd agree with much of the politics of islamic nation-states and I don't think he'd agree with much of what "conservative" politicians say either, because as Ive inferred 3 times above, that terms means a gazillion different things.

Concerning the Black album he later said he was concerned about kids coming along and hearing the album and that being a lasting remark from him etc. It was on the edge of censorship (yet he released it anyway in 1994 to get out of his contract)but never performed anything again))

Deciding not to perform certain of your own works because you've decided that they are inappropriate is not censorship.

He seemed pretty far left wing in the 80s, he seemed accepting of gender bending and would drop little lines like "whoever said that Elephants were stronger than Mules?" in Paisley Park (referring to social funding and such).

He definitely got more conservative as he got older and was brainwashed by the skygod cult though. He also started touting a lot of kooky conspiracy theories like chemtrails that mostly stem from the right wing scene of Alex Jones and his ilk. Prince himself said he was no longer political though, as the cult doesn't involve itself with politics.

Genesia said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Concerning the Black album he later said he was concerned about kids coming along and hearing the album and that being a lasting remark from him etc. It was on the edge of censorship (yet he released it anyway in 1994 to get out of his contract)but never performed anything again))

Deciding not to perform certain of your own works because you've decided that they are inappropriate is not censorship.

Well it's self censorship, it's just not government censorship.

Noodled24 said:

Early on he clearly wasn't the conservative type.

Even after he became a Witness... the rudeboy still raised his head (so to speak). Prince - the entertainer certainly wasn't all that Conservative.

Prince the human, it's likely we'll never know. He often said things to the press/media to deliberately set them on a false path. Songs were often written either for other people, or from a different perspective than his own. So attempting to use them to decipher Prince is difficult. No least because it's easy to find another song which contradicts a lyric from another song.

He certainly had some Conservative views on religion later in his life. However even after becoming a Witness, he wasn't on a crusade to convert his fans. He was still singing "Dirty Mind, "Turn Me Loose", "Screwdriver". His message above all else was that people shouldn't just close their minds to religion. Asking questions and remaining open to spirituality in some form was IMO his take home message.

Toure, makes some interesting points. But I think trying to put a label on someone who's no longer with us based on what a young lady who knew Prince when he was a teenager had to say 30 years later should be taken with a pinch of salt.

"He was a Conservative in the mold of I'm successful, I'm making money, I want this protected"

How does that reconcile with the guy who overspent on tours. Willing to risk barely breaking even for his art. Who, when his managers tried to explain "you can't keep spending like this" simply flipped over the chart they'd prepared and told them it was their problem.

Prince evolved a lot throughout his career. It's near impossible to point and say "he is this one thing". At best you could say between this time and that time he seemed to favour XYZ.

[Edited 5/17/16 10:06am]

Yeah, that guy has no idea what he's talking about. Susan Rogers was around in the 80s, Prince was dropping all kinds of anti-Republican messages during that time, he spoke out agains Reagan's Star Wars, demanded more welfare funding, music programs for schools, etc.. I think what Susan was referring to (assuming she said anything) was how conservative Prince was in regards to alcohol and drugs, as well as his work ethic. This is a different thing from being conservative politically.

Genesia said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Concerning the Black album he later said he was concerned about kids coming along and hearing the album and that being a lasting remark from him etc. It was on the edge of censorship (yet he released it anyway in 1994 to get out of his contract)but never performed anything again))

Deciding not to perform certain of your own works because you've decided that they are inappropriate is not censorship.

It sure isn't.

FUNKYNESS said:

Toure is no Prince expert. He is just an overrated pseudo intellectual fake hipster negro who poses as one

[Edited 5/17/16 11:46am]

THAT!^

TonyVanDam said:

FUNKYNESS said:

Toure is no Prince expert. He is just an overrated pseudo intellectual fake hipster negro who poses as one

[Edited 5/17/16 11:46am]

THAT!^

LOL @ "hipster negro".

FUNKYNESS said:

Toure is no Prince expert. He is just an overrated pseudo intellectual fake hipster negro who poses as one

[Edited 5/17/16 11:46am]

yep....

Genesia said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Concerning the Black album he later said he was concerned about kids coming along and hearing the album and that being a lasting remark from him etc. It was on the edge of censorship (yet he released it anyway in 1994 to get out of his contract)but never performed anything again))

Deciding not to perform certain of your own works because you've decided that they are inappropriate is not censorship.

self censorship

Please keep posting threads. You're hilarious!

.

As for your question, nobody knows but Prince.

suomynona said:

intentionally left blank